COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[dalekphalm]

21 hours ago, Spotty said:

Are people who have previously contracted the virus still going to be receiving the vaccine? I'm assuming that anyone who has recovered from the virus and now tests negative would have built up a natural immune response, so would a vaccine provide any additional benefit or would it just be a waste of a shot that could have gone to someone else who needed it?

It depends on how long term the naturally occurring immunity lasts, and I haven't seen what the current research says about that.

 

If I were a health policy maker, I would still offer them the vaccine, but at the lowest priority, after the general public has mostly been vaccinated.

20 hours ago, Sarra said:

I got the flu shot in 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2019. In 2015, 2017, and 2019, it gave me the worst flu I've had each time. I hadn't had a serious flu since 2005.

The flu shot didn't give you the flu. Most flu shots (especially if you get the injection) does not contain live virus. It literally cannot give you the flu.

 

So either one of two things happened:

1. You already had the flu or caught it shortly after receiving the flu shot. The flu takes some time to incubate, and the flu shot itself takes some time to ramp up your immune response.

2. You had a particularly strong reaction to the shot (this is incredibly unlikely because even a strong reaction would be far less severe than even a mild case of the flu - let alone "the worst flu I've had".

 

There is a type of flu shot with a weakened live virus - it's the nasal spray version. It's possible if your immune system is completely shot, that the weakened virus could possibly actually give you the flu, but if that's the case, you're likely immune compromised and need special medical attention.

Quote

Other than that, I've never had a bad reaction to a vaccine. But, I also wasn't allergic to gluten or diary then, and I might have other allergies now that I didn't before... Or didn't know about before.

Ingredient/food allergies can sometimes develop later as an adult (or can be there all along and misdiagnosed), so that's certainly a possibility, but for most people they will either always have vaccine reactions or they never will.

[Lii]

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w

 

all of this mess because of shitty politics

[Rodinski]

Test cycles in the US exceed WHO's recommendation rates.  

 

Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be. - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

WHO Information Notice for IVD Users 2020/05

 

The number of false positives...  Seeing the mental health and economic crisis coming from this, I'm not going to be surprised of the amount of public anger about to come.

[IkeaGnome]

2 minutes ago, Rodinski said:

Test cycles in the US exceed WHO's recommendation rates.  

 

Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be. - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

WHO Information Notice for IVD Users 2020/05

 

The number of false positives...

In a work rotation(18 days at home, 3 days of quarantine, 21 days at work) we get tested three times. Once at home. Once at quarantine. Both of those are deep nose tests. The third test is done out here on site. It's a shallow nose test. We've got the machine that reads the test and gives us results in like 15 minutes. It's not uncommon for us to have 2 negatives then a false positive at work. In a week of testing(about 400 people) there seems to be 5-10 people that go to town for a deep nose test. We also don't get tested for 90 days after an actual positive just because of how sensitive the tests are. 

[Sarra]

Well, I ended up getting the first shot today. Second shot is already scheduled! So stoked.

 

I texted my BFF, and accidentally said "I got shot today". Funny how one word missing changes the sentence so much...

[Master Disaster]

8 hours ago, Sarra said:

Well, I ended up getting the first shot today. Second shot is already scheduled! So stoked.

 

I texted my BFF, and accidentally said "I got shot today". Funny how one word missing changes the sentence so much...

Still not technically wrong though

[Sarra]

4 hours ago, Benji said:

Cool! The Moderna one or the Pfizer/BioNTech one?

Did you have any side effects as of yet?

Pfizer/BioNTech.

 

Side effects I've had were being super duper fatigued after the shot, and it hurts like a mofo. Worse than a Tetanus shot. But it doesn't hurt right away, it took a few hours to start, and when I was in the shower, it got much worse. XD

4 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Still not technically wrong though

Feels that way, actually. @___@

[Smurf09]

On 3/21/2020 at 10:02 PM, seee the state im in nooow said:

but evian or dasani though

They are water brands.

[WkdPaul]

Double-blind study on colchicine against COVID might have potential (I say might here because the research still needs to be reviewed). They got the results on Friday and are submitting the research for peer-review today, they didn't say what journal it's submitted to, but apparently it's going to get preferential treatment and will be reviewed quickly.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/covid-19-research-heart-institute-1.5885347

[dalekphalm]

48 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

Double-blind study on colchicine against COVID might have potential (I say might here because the research still needs to be reviewed). They got the results on Friday and are submitting the research for peer-review today, they didn't say what journal it's submitted to, but apparently it's going to get preferential treatment and will be reviewed quickly.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/covid-19-research-heart-institute-1.5885347

Good to know.

 

Important difference vs hydroxychloroquine is that they did a study, and then submitted the results.

 

Compared that to hydroxychloroquine, they (they being Trump and other certain politicians) were just like "Yeah I heard this works, use it!" and then studies came later disproving any efficacy.

[IkeaGnome]

Many good signs for the state of Alaska right now. Hopefully this keeps going. Grades 3-6 are getting ready to open towards the beginning of next month. Teachers and students are being considered to be bumped up on our vaccine priority system to compensate. That's not set in stone yet though. So far only 84 new cases yesterday. Down from 700-900 at our peak.

We hit #1 for per capita vaccinations in the states! That's a huge win and shows that vaccination can be done well even in rural places.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021/01/25/alaska-rises-to-no-1-among-states-for-per-capita-coronavirus-vaccinations/

Our positivity rate is also still on the massive decline.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021/01/25/tracking-covid-19-in-alaska-84-infections-and-no-deaths-reported-monday/

Spoiler

 

[s_k]

The Netherlands went into a curfew last Saturday, from 9pm to 4:30am. 
Sucks, but no biggie, I'd say.
People disagree. Huge riots in literally tens of cities. It's ridiculous.
Proper riots too, setting vaccination centers alight, bombarding hospitals and stations, loads of agression, cars on fire. 
I was never the biggest fan of the Dutch, but now I'm actually ashamed.  

[Andreas Lilja]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/25/canada-ex-casino-head-fined-covid-vaccine-rodney-baker

 

Jail time, please. Guy can afford $575 fine many times over. 

[WkdPaul]

5 hours ago, Andreas Lilja said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/25/canada-ex-casino-head-fined-covid-vaccine-rodney-baker

 

Jail time, please. Guy can afford $575 fine many times over. 

The length they had to go through, to cheat people out of a vaccine is disgusting !!!

And BTW, how did they know to go there and that it would work, I feel like this isn't the whole story.

[spartaman64]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/millions-of-covid-19-vaccine-doses-are-miaand-biden-team-isnt-sure-why

a bit worrying. if a few thousand are missing then maybe its a data entry error but millions wtf

[PhantomJaguarr]

Not even a few minutes after Gavin Newson lifted the stay-at-home order, my friend texted me if I wanted to go out to eat since restaurants can now have outside dining open again. Back to the strict tier system.

 

https://apnews.com/article/california-data-lift-stay-at-home-fc0c15eb5e7359b4bae50602f79a2cfd

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, PhantomJaguar77 said:

Not even a few minutes after Gavin Newson lifted the stay-at-home order, my friend texted me if I wanted to go out to eat since restaurants can now have outside dining open again. Back to the strict tier system.

 

https://apnews.com/article/california-data-lift-stay-at-home-fc0c15eb5e7359b4bae50602f79a2cfd

Our restriction here in Michigan go to indoor and outdoor dining come Feb 1st. No more than 6 per tablet, 6 feet apart, no more than 100 people in an establishment. Tents are cool, but its fucking winter here and no way Im freezing my ass off. 

 

I think ill stick to carry out for the time being. 

[dalekphalm]

43 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Our restriction here in Michigan go to indoor and outdoor dining come Feb 1st. No more than 6 per tablet, 6 feet apart, no more than 100 people in an establishment. Tents are cool, but its fucking winter here and no way Im freezing my ass off. 

 

I think ill stick to carry out for the time being. 

Yeah Michigan Winters are a bitch. Almost as bad as Canadian winter (worse than some of the most southern parts). 

[captain_to_fire]

On 1/21/2021 at 1:51 AM, Sarra said:

I got the flu shot in 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2019. In 2015, 2017, and 2019, it gave me the worst flu I've had each time. I hadn't had a serious flu since 2005.

If you received the injectable flu vaccine, it shouldn’t give you the flu as it contains an inactivated virus. Nasal spray vaccines which contains the live-attenuated virus are the ones have the small chance of infecting you with the flu because of the reason that the virus is live, but weakened.
 

Chances are by the moment you got vaccinated, you got exposed to the flu virus even before your immune system got the chance to make antibodies in response to the vaccine. The likes of the flu vaccine take at least 10-14 days before it works because adaptive immune response is slow in developing responses to new antigens, and the incubation period of the flu virus is 1-4 days. 

[PhantomJaguarr]

51 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Our restriction here in Michigan go to indoor and outdoor dining come Feb 1st. No more than 6 per tablet, 6 feet apart, no more than 100 people in an establishment. Tents are cool, but its fucking winter here and no way Im freezing my ass off. 

 

I think ill stick to carry out for the time being. 

Yeah we just got over 60mph winds here that the downtown center for vaccine shots had to close. Lots of tents tossed around. I just miss the socializing and I think we have one more storm here and it’ll be back to being summer in winter here.

[Sarra]

2 hours ago, like_ooh_ahh said:

If you received the injectable flu vaccine, it shouldn’t give you the flu as it contains an inactivated virus. Nasal spray vaccines which contains the live-attenuated virus are the ones have the small chance of infecting you with the flu because of the reason that the virus is live, but weakened.
 

Chances are by the moment you got vaccinated, you got exposed to the flu virus even before your immune system got the chance to make antibodies in response to the vaccine. The likes of the flu vaccine take at least 10-14 days before it works because adaptive immune response is slow in developing responses to new antigens, and the incubation period of the flu virus is 1-4 days. 

I'm not sure what I'm not putting in these posts... I got the flu shot in January, then got stupendously sick in March once. Then, I got the flu shot in January, and tremendously sick in June.

 

I got sick right after the flu shot once, but... It seems like a really big coincidence to get the flu right before a flu shot, and then have the worst flu for many, many years. I've been sick with the flu before, and except in 2003 or so, it was always mild.

 

I don't believe in coincidences.

[WkdPaul]

1 hour ago, Benji said:

The incubation period of the flu is about one to four days based on what source you read and not over two months, so no, the flu shot definitely didn't give you the flu. It also isn't close enough time-wise that you can consider it a correlation or causation because neither exists. Getting the flu two months later doesn't have anything to do with the flu shot. Getting the flu shot in January and getting "the flu" in June and you're still looking for a correlation or causation? That's straight-up twisting facts. Not to mention that an inactive virus doesn't give you anything besides providing the immune system with a sample to build antibodies, no matter what the falsehoods are that are still being spread.

There aren't any coincidences, not even close.

I think he meant that every time he got the flu shot, he got horribly sick with the flu, not that the shot gave him the flu, but that it seems it doesn't immunize him.

 

And to be fair, it's totally possible, there are multiple strains, and the vaccine is made with the prediction of specific strains being spread when the vaccine is going to be used, so it's totally possible he got one of the strain that wasn't in the shot he got ... it's unlikely, but not impossible.

 

With that said, IMO, that's not a reason not to get vaccinated.

 

Correlation doesn't imply causation, there's a famous website that collects those (correlations that have nothing to do with each other, like the correlation between the divorce rate in Maine with the per capita consumption of margarine   ) ;

https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

[Sarra]

5 hours ago, Benji said:

The incubation period of the flu is about one to four days based on what source you read and not over two months, so no, the flu shot definitely didn't give you the flu. It also isn't close enough time-wise that you can consider it a correlation or causation because neither exists. Getting the flu two months later doesn't have anything to do with the flu shot. Getting the flu shot in January and getting "the flu" in June and you're still looking for a correlation or causation? That's straight-up twisting facts. Not to mention that an inactive virus doesn't give you anything besides providing the immune system with a sample to build antibodies, no matter what the falsehoods are that are still being spread.

There aren't any coincidences, not even close.

So, it's not a coincidence, but every time I've had a flu shot, I've had the flu worse than any other time for the past 10 years in my life?

 

I'm really confused, here.

[Blade of Grass]

17 hours ago, Sarra said:

I don't believe in coincidences.

Then you’ve been Fooled by Randomness  

Good book, if anyone is wondering. 

[dalekphalm]

21 hours ago, like_ooh_ahh said:

If you received the injectable flu vaccine, it shouldn’t give you the flu as it contains an inactivated virus. Nasal spray vaccines which contains the live-attenuated virus are the ones have the small chance of infecting you with the flu because of the reason that the virus is live, but weakened.

Exactly.

21 hours ago, like_ooh_ahh said:

Chances are by the moment you got vaccinated, you got exposed to the flu virus even before your immune system got the chance to make antibodies in response to the vaccine. The likes of the flu vaccine take at least 10-14 days before it works because adaptive immune response is slow in developing responses to new antigens, and the incubation period of the flu virus is 1-4 days. 

I think he poorly explained his original statement, but what you say here is 100% correct.

18 hours ago, Sarra said:

I'm not sure what I'm not putting in these posts... I got the flu shot in January, then got stupendously sick in March once. Then, I got the flu shot in January, and tremendously sick in June.

You really poorly explained your original comment.

 

You made it sound like you got a really bad case of the Flu right after getting the shot. You DIDN'T mention that the shots were multiple months before getting sick.

18 hours ago, Sarra said:

I got sick right after the flu shot once, but... It seems like a really big coincidence to get the flu right before a flu shot, and then have the worst flu for many, many years. I've been sick with the flu before, and except in 2003 or so, it was always mild.

So let me just clarify what you experienced. In one case, you got the Flu shot, and about 2 months later you got the flu. Same thing a different time, but this time it took about 6 months from between the shot and you getting the flu.

 

So, I think what happened is pretty straight forward. For whatever reason, the shot simply had no effect on you - either you were one of the percentage of people that receives a vaccination and didn't get full immunity (it happens with all vaccines, but Flu shots are usually between 40-60% effective for full immunity, depending on the specific vaccine), or, you were infected by a strain of the flu not covered by that vaccine.

18 hours ago, Sarra said:

I don't believe in coincidences.

Then you don't know anything about science or physics. No offense meant, but Coincidences literally happen all the time.

8 hours ago, Benji said:

The incubation period of the flu is about one to four days based on what source you read and not over two months, so no, the flu shot definitely didn't give you the flu. It also isn't close enough time-wise that you can consider it a correlation or causation because neither exists. Getting the flu two months later doesn't have anything to do with the flu shot. Getting the flu shot in January and getting "the flu" in June and you're still looking for a correlation or causation? That's straight-up twisting facts. Not to mention that an inactive virus doesn't give you anything besides providing the immune system with a sample to build antibodies, no matter what the falsehoods are that are still being spread.

There aren't any coincidences, not even close.

 

6 hours ago, wkdpaul said:

I think he meant that every time he got the flu shot, he got horribly sick with the flu, not that the shot gave him the flu, but that it seems it doesn't immunize him.

Yes I think that's what he meant - it was difficult to tell from his post though so I'm not surprised we misunderstood him.

6 hours ago, wkdpaul said:

And to be fair, it's totally possible, there are multiple strains, and the vaccine is made with the prediction of specific strains being spread when the vaccine is going to be used, so it's totally possible he got one of the strain that wasn't in the shot he got ... it's unlikely, but not impossible.

Yes, even if you get the right strain, the flu vaccine is among the lower effective vaccines. But also tons of strains go around all the time, and they only target the main ones.

6 hours ago, wkdpaul said:

With that said, IMO, that's not a reason not to get vaccinated.

 

Correlation doesn't imply causation, there's a famous website that collects those (correlations that have nothing to do with each other, like the correlation between the divorce rate in Maine with the per capita consumption of margarine   ) ;

https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

It's beautiful. Coincidences are very often misunderstood.

2 hours ago, Sarra said:

So, it's not a coincidence, but every time I've had a flu shot, I've had the flu worse than any other time for the past 10 years in my life?

 

I'm really confused, here.

The flu shot certainly didn't make your flu that happened multiple months later worse. How exactly would that happen, on a biomechanical level?

 

Most likely you just got a nasty strain of the flu - in 2003, there was a particularly strong variant of H3N2 going around.

1 hour ago, Benji said:

Exactly. A flu doesn't need one month, let alone six months to hit you. One week after coming in contact with the flu and you get it, not such large amounts of time in between.

Correct.

1 hour ago, Benji said:

And what I would also say (but I'm no psychiatrist or something) is that you know it's coming and you expect it to happen which makes your probably regular cold or mild flu way worse than it actually is.

Essentially the placebo effect but working against you.

1 hour ago, Benji said:

"Man flu" and all. It also isn't new that the mind plays a huge part in overall health and healing. You could call it "self-fulfilling prophecy" if you want.

Yes, this can often be the cause of discomfort and severity.

1 hour ago, Benji said:

You just can't get the flu from a flu shot.

Literally impossible for the injection variant.

1 hour ago, Benji said:

It is more likely that it didn't give you immunity against the strains that you come in contact with (because nobody can create a vaccine against strains that might not be there yet).

This is my suspicion as well.

1 hour ago, Benji said:

I would go as far as saying that you would've also gotten the cold/flu whether you took the shot or not in the case vaccination January, flu in July. This is not to keep you from getting it, but what you're saying makes no sense whatsoever. What you can get is a slight fever due to the immune system working or local infections from the injection, but not the flu from a flu shot. And neither could you get COVID from the vaccine. So yes, in my opinion it is a coincidence, but not causation or even correlation.

Agreed.