[Update] Google to be fined 5 billion dollars by the EU for breaching Antitrust laws

[Trixanity]

The EU budget is $169 billion. If the EU needed to fine companies to operate they'd better start handing out a lot more fines as it only covers 3%.

[asus killer]

i'm glad, Google is an abuser. It destroys any attempt of competition. Screw Google. I really wish some European companies would come up with alternatives to Google, android and windows. The US is terrible at defending competition.

 

EU did the same for Microsoft when they almost tried to make their shitty browsers the think by force. Thank god that didn't worked out for them.

 

[Trixanity]

1 minute ago, asus killer said:

i'm glad, Google is an abuser. It destroys any attempt of competition. Screw Google. I really wish some European companies would come up with alternatives to Google, android and windows.

Won't happen. Any attempt would be bought or killed if it shows any sliver of success. That's what's happened with most European tech companies.

[Dedayog]

It's better to ask forgiveness than permission

 

$5 billion ain't bad for where they got.  Call it a cost of doing business.

[Noctus]

2 hours ago, SC2Mitch said:

I think it's also to do with the fact you can't uninstall chrome from Android devices too, like, it's literally impossible (as far as I know you're unable to do this with Android 8 and Developer Beta) 

But there's literally a fully usable app store to change search/browsers ..... i don't really get this.... Those who DONT want chrome are more than not likely in the known to search for an alternative via apps or root options. Those who'd have no clue would be better suited with the preloaded chrome etc... what am i missing?

[Commodus]

While I'd say the justification for the fine is... complicated, it is a reminder that Google isn't the champion of the people that some make it out to be.

 

I still remember how Google not only didn't make apps for Windows Phone (outside of a search app), but actively refused to help Microsoft develop a YouTube app.  Microsoft had committed the unforgivable crime of making a competing search engine, and Google was determined to starve Windows Phone to death as punishment.

[dizmo]

2 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

It is a big deal. To put it in perspective, it is 4.5% of their last year revenue. Not income, but revenue. To put it even more in perspective, Alphabet's net income was $12.66 billion last year. 

Yes, I'm aware. They got dinged with massive 10 billion dollar tax reform bill, it didn't seem to cause much damage to their stock price at all.

This is half that.

2 hours ago, sof006 said:

This will hurt Google. It's a lot of money, no company wants to be fined, especially this kind of money. Also more than a fine it's bad publicity.

For a very short time.

[NinerL]

Seems like there's some companies rejoicing

 

[Jito463]

3 hours ago, SC2Mitch said:

I think it's also to do with the fact you can't uninstall chrome from Android devices too, like, it's literally impossible (as far as I know you're unable to do this with Android 8 and Developer Beta) 

You also can't uninstall Safari from iOS, and I don't even think you can remove it from the desktop MacOS; likewise with IE/Edge in Windows (and presumably Windows Mobile, my only test platform to verify is WM 6, which is quite old).  If that were a major sticking point, I would think it would affect all the major developers.

[Trixanity]

It goes beyond just the browser. It's also the store, services and apps. It's about the restrictions put on other companies in the ecosystem. There's many facets, large and small, to this case.

 

However, I'd still say it walks a fine line due to the nature of Android. There are alternatives to play services, there are alternatives to play store, there are alternatives to Google's apps. But would you want to lose the benefits of Google's ecosystem? The success, or the lack of, of forked Android versions speaks volumes about that idea.

[Fasterthannothing]

This is absolutely stupid I buy x companies product because I like x companies products and services that they include and not being able to uninstall is perfectly fine just disable it that's what I do on Android. This is a really stupid ruling Apple installs their browser on iPhones and Windows has their browser on their products. Think about this you buy a new device and you have to install everything yourself. I don't know about anyone else but I don't want to have to install a million apps just to use my phone or computer. If you really want to take the ruling to the extreme this could apply to everything from that company so no app stores no camera apps nothing. If their isn't any app store how the frick are you going to download the apps needed for the device to actually do anything. What do they want us to carry around a flash drive so we can install the programs that are supposed to come on a device? Most user's don't even know how to side load an app much less the entire appstore package. The EU needs to stay out of this they don't even understand what this could do to the tech industry as a whole.

[IntMD]

It'll be a simple resolution. They'll appeal, the fine will be reduced to something a bit less on the condition that they basically give you options on first startup of what you want installed etc. Much the same as MS had with IE in the EU after that court case.

[Noctus]

Wouldn't they only need to go "well what bout apple?" Isn't their ecosystem the most restrictive and rules, rules, rules of them all ?

[IntMD]

33 minutes ago, Noctus said:

Wouldn't they only need to go "well what bout apple?" Isn't their ecosystem the most restrictive and rules, rules, rules of them all ?

Nope, it's all about the market share that android has @ ~74% or something. Brings it in to the realms of monopoly status and so you get much bigger restrictions on what you can do and get away with. If it was Apple with 74% market share, they'd likely be getting hauled over the coals for similar things.

[Trixanity]

34 minutes ago, Noctus said:

Wouldn't they only need to go "well what bout apple?" Isn't their ecosystem the most restrictive and rules, rules, rules of them all ?

Their market share is a lot smaller. It isn't about restrictions alone. Also, Apple is the sole vendor in the ecosystem. There isn't a Samsung or Huawei that feel unduly disadvantaged by the obligations of iOS.

[Bouzoo]

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

Yes, I'm aware. They got dinged with massive 10 billion dollar tax reform bill, it didn't seem to cause much damage to their stock price at all.

This is half that.

I don't see any reform bill that slams them with 10 billion. Some new reforms  are even good for them, based on google. Can you source that? I still wouldn't say that a tax reform really affect shares as much as a fine does. 

[Amazonsucks]

5 hours ago, huilun02 said:

Useless. EU just after money.

If they actually cared for the people, they would have instead make a rule that any browser that comes with any computer/smart device must be completely removable and replaceable without difficulty (unless being locked into specific browser is explicitly requested by customer, or part of its selling feature)

 

Might as well just fine all criminals $1000 and do jack all to prevent them from repeating an offence.

Or you know, let them go like they do in many parts of Europe already? And places like it in the feces covered, dysfunctional sections of the USA like southern California.

[Rupe]

6 hours ago, SC2Mitch said:

The European Commission has accused Google of abusing its Android market dominance by bundling its search engine and Chrome apps into the operating system. Google has also allegedly blocked phone makers from creating devices that run forked versions of Android.

I don't know what Google is being accused of honestly. I just read the article on Reuters and nowhere does anyone explain exactly what Google has done wrong or what the EU is really accusing them of. Bundling apps with their own software? Google should be able to decide what they want to do with their own software. Have as many caveats to using Android as they see fit in a free market if people/companies don't like it don't use it. I'm pretty sure I'm probably missing something but it looks as though the EU has fined googled for as far as I'm concerned nothing.

[dizmo]

22 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

I don't see any reform bill that slams them with 10 billion. Some new reforms  are even good for them, based on google. Can you source that? I still wouldn't say that a tax reform really affect shares as much as a fine does. 

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/01/googles-parent-firm-alphabet-takes-10-billion-hit-from-new-u-s-tax-regime-reports-3-billion-loss/

 

Realistically, a lot of the fine can also be absorbed as tax write offs down the line.

[Jtalk4456]

I'm going to take an unpopular opinion here and say they are just money grabbing here. I don't see anything wrong with android coming with chrome by default, using google search by default. You can change both defaults if you want. You can disable chrome as an app, as well as the google search bar. I don't see anyone fining HP for having their bloatware come by default on hp laptops and desktops, advertising the purchase of an HP printers and ink. I think the EU is forgetting that android is owned by google. If I owned android and had other services to offer, you betcha, I'm going to put those services in my OS. As long as I give people the ability to not use it, I don't see why it's a problem that an android phone has google built into the OS.

4 hours ago, sof006 said:

This will hurt Google. It's a lot of money, no company wants to be fined, especially this kind of money. Also more than a fine it's bad publicity.

As of Dec 2017, Alphabet had close to 100 billion in reserves. This tiny fine is nothing to them, won't even phase them

[Centurius]

6 hours ago, huilun02 said:

Put Google in a brick house with others for X amount of time

You can't lock up a thing that doesn't actually exist. You can only fine it to hurt it.

[Noctus]

1 hour ago, IntMD said:

Nope, it's all about the market share that android has @ ~74% or something. Brings it in to the realms of monopoly status and so you get much bigger restrictions on what you can do and get away with. If it was Apple with 74% market share, they'd likely be getting hauled over the coals for similar things.

 

1 hour ago, Trixanity said:

Their market share is a lot smaller. It isn't about restrictions alone. Also, Apple is the sole vendor in the ecosystem. There isn't a Samsung or Huawei that feel unduly disadvantaged by the obligations of iOS.

But can't that be countered with the fact apple won't provide for the lower end market that make up the grand portion of that 74%? That and my previous point of "you CAN change the search and browser options"... Basically the same as windows' Bing and Explorer, no?

[Doobeedoo]

This reminds me of MS Windows IE browser included, but later updated so on first launch asks you to choose a web browser of your choice. 

[Centurius]

2 hours ago, Shorty88jr said:

This is absolutely stupid I buy x companies product because I like x companies products and services that they include and not being able to uninstall is perfectly fine just disable it that's what I do on Android. This is a really stupid ruling Apple installs their browser on iPhones and Windows has their browser on their products. Think about this you buy a new device and you have to install everything yourself. I don't know about anyone else but I don't want to have to install a million apps just to use my phone or computer. If you really want to take the ruling to the extreme this could apply to everything from that company so no app stores no camera apps nothing. If their isn't any app store how the frick are you going to download the apps needed for the device to actually do anything. What do they want us to carry around a flash drive so we can install the programs that are supposed to come on a device? Most user's don't even know how to side load an app much less the entire appstore package. The EU needs to stay out of this they don't even understand what this could do to the tech industry as a whole.

It seems you are the one who doesn't understand what this can do to the tech industry as a whole. The same thing happened with Internet Explorer and Windows a few years back. The only thing they needed to do to comply was offer the option to pick IE or a different browser after installing the OS. Google can simply do the same, offer the ability to use the default apps or pick your own during initial set up.

[Fasterthannothing]

26 minutes ago, Centurius said:

It seems you are the one who doesn't understand what this can do to the tech industry as a whole. The same thing happened with Internet Explorer and Windows a few years back. The only thing they needed to do to comply was offer the option to pick IE or a different browser after installing the OS. Google can simply do the same, offer the ability to use the default apps or pick your own during initial set up.

Why should they it's their freaking product. That's like going to the most popular restaurant in town ordering pasta and the waiter asking if you want the sauce from their competition because most people don't like the competitions so they are required to give you the option to make it fair. Like what the heck life's not fair if your product isn't doing well against the competition figure out how to make it do well. People will vote with their money they don't need a court to decide what apps they want on  their phone. Besides they aren't keeping you from installing a different browser.