Finally Someone Decided To Do Something About Miners

[PCGuy_5960]

2 minutes ago, Armakar said:

fuck the miners

Why? Because they are making money and you can't play games?

[toastythomas]

I don't know if this is all that unpopular, but miners and gamers should be treated the same by manufacturers. They are purchasing the cards for their own personal use.

[Sauron]

Just now, Princess Cadence said:

while mining is nothing but do constant pointless math for no gain but fake money that somehow is worth actual money now because people are somewhat crazy

I'm pretty sure you can go and do other things while your machine is mining... I'm not saying videogames are just a waste of power but they're hardly any more productive than mining.

[pas008]

Just now, mynameisjuan said:

So you still think I am entitled for some bullshit reason. 

 

They can mine all they want but the manufacture has the right to not cover mining under warranty because its proven to kill cards magnitudes faster. Thats why there are specific cards designed to purely mine.

how are they going to know if i'm rendering 24/7 vs mining 24/7

plus its none of their business as long as I used the card to their warranty terms

[PlayStation 2]

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

lol you have no clue

 

do you

 

you only think of your self entitlement needs like you are only one on planet

miners are customers too, atm better then gaming customers

Self entitlement != manufacturing

Resources are limited, ya know. It's kinda how the world works.

[cesrai]

10 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

This is 2nd hand information from a few sources.

So no source.

[Prysin]

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

doesnt matter its none of your business what anyone does with THEIR CARD

To a degree yes. You are right. 

However when businesses deliberately destroy a non-enterprise market for their own selfish gains, it is a corporate vs private consumer rights issue. 

 

And don't claim that they are not a small business. They are. When you go out buying multiple products for the explicit purpose of generating revenue, you are no longer acting as a private customer but as a business. 

 

[mynameisjuan]

Just now, toastythomas said:

I don't know if this is all that unpopular, but miners and gamers should be treated the same by manufacturers. They are purchasing the cards for their own personal use.

One use case nets the card 3-4 years of life with a few hours a day of use

 

The other is 24/7 operation that kills the card in 6 months easily

 

Out of the two cases, the first is what the card was designed to do...literally....the second is not what it was designed to handle. But people want them to fix it regardless which is bullshit. 

[pas008]

Just now, Dan Castellaneta said:

Self entitlement != manufacturing

Resources are limited, ya know. It's kinda how the world works.

read my other statements

heres the tdlr

supply and demand

miners are customers too

you arent entitled to shit

quit crying about miners

blame amd/nvidia

what people do with their gpus are none of your business

[AlTech]

Just now, cesrai said:

So no source.

Heard things from people. I trust that the people I heard it from have a reliable or legitimate source.

[pas008]

1 minute ago, Prysin said:

To a degree yes. You are right. 

However when businesses deliberately destroy a non-enterprise market for their own selfish gains, it is a corporate vs private consumer rights issue. 

 

And don't claim that they are not a small business. They are. When you go out buying multiple products for the explicit purpose of generating revenue, you are no longer acting as a private customer but as a business. 

 

thats none of you business either

thats someone elses job and its not amd or nvidias or aib partners

[GOTSpectrum]

6 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

Of course not, you're entitled to entertainment as that is partially the goal of life, while mining is nothing but do constant pointless math for no gain but fake money that somehow is worth actual money now because people are somewhat crazy

 

Either ways, I think mining is stupid yes, but the whole idea of breaking people's performance on purpose to prevent mining workloads is insane unfair and idiotic at least, it is not the miners fault that AMD and nVidia sucks to keep up with stocks, PC gaming also was never meant to be "cheap" if you can't afford a graphics card buy a console instead of QQ'ing about prices 24/7 blaming other people on a forum.

What you have to remember is fiat money, or real money is only worth something because people are crazy and think it is. Our money isn't backed by a gold reserve anymore. Sometimes it's backed by a small percentage but apart from that crypto currencies are exactly the same.

[Prysin]

2 minutes ago, pas008 said:

how are they going to know if i'm rendering 24/7 vs mining 24/7

plus its none of their business as long as I used the card to their warranty terms

It is easier to alienate a private customer than a business. You risk driving the private customer away for years. A business that is not inept is fully able to plan for the cost vs revenue over time and adjust their expenses to maximize profits. A private customer has no profits 

[GoodBytes]

38 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Can they? Because they would have already. The only possible explanation is that they're happy with the underwhelming supply to create an elevated price and increase their margins but that would basically mean "Let's eat a mountain of negative PR for months for a very short term small increase in margins" it makes more sense that they just cannot produce chips fast enough.

 

Then again I have maintained that consumers don't need to use compute, at all. I know is controversial but they should kill compute at the bios levels and push miners to the workstation cards instead, they can deal with the price increase due to the other workstation features.

Well.. it takes time,. It requires new machinery that doesn't take a day to built. Industrial machines are all custom made, and requires a lot of space. Probably expansion is needed. Also, it takes time, as manufacturer needs to see if this is just a small moment of high demand, or will always be like this.

 

You can bet that memory manufacture are expanding, and will take some time, possible 1-2 years before we see production increased. This is because they are more and more devices using memory chip. Some manufacture of memory chips might opt for more R&D instead for making larger capacity chips in a single chip, to reduce the demand. (example: why need 2x 16GB chip to make 32GB when you can have 1x). We see this with some RAM where only 1 side of the RAM stick is filled, and not both sides.

 

As for GPU manufactures and card manufactures well it takes time as they need to evaluate, but it will rectify itself over time. Either mining will drop, or production will boost.

[DildorTheDecent]

Oh cool. The GPU brand that nobody buys since there's superior offerings from companies that actually have sales has done a thing. 

 

Neat. 

[Princess Luna]

Just now, Ben Quigley said:

What you have to remember is fiat money, or real money is only worth something because people are crazy and think it is. Our money isn't backed by a gold reserve anymore. Sometimes it's backed by a small percentage but apart from that crypto currencies are exactly the same.

Yeah we all know money is only worth what people believe it is, gold itself only values what you want it to value and I personally even been a girl have never seen any value in jewels "precious metals" hehe

 

At least with normal currency be it Dollars, Euro, Yen, Real, Pesos so on we have a whole government regularization and economy base on top... gives safety that your salary indeed is worth something even if it is only to pay taxes

 

How BitCoins and what not end up valuing real money is an mystery to me but as you said as long as there's people to believe it is worth it there is literally nothing we can about it...

 

My part on the discussion as I partially said already it isn't even anger about the prices or shortages or any of that sort as I am perfectly capable of affording high end hardware on my own regardless the mine craze... but it still bugs me a little how so much electricity, computing power and such is being used for such a selfish meaningless goal... reason why I wish mining equations were at least useful in some sort such is F@H.

[Master Disaster]

49 minutes ago, pas008 said:

who cares what people do with their cards

its none of you fucking business

What they do with them, sure. The fact I can't get a GPU for anything less than +25% MSRP because of them? Just try and tell me that's not my business.

[NumLock21]

2 minutes ago, pas008 said:

ignorant?

 

you lack the knowledge to understand that miners are customers too

knowledge to understand supply and demand

knowledge to understand customer privacy

shall I continue?

 

So you must be one of those miners than?

[H0R53]

55 minutes ago, NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle said:

So Inno3D has finally decided to do something about these damn miners who do nothing but waste power and stealing our gaming cards.

Inno3D's solution while it's not really going to change things, at least it's something. Maybe this is a wake up call for AMD and Nvidia to have drivers that detect when someone is mining on their cards and brick them instantly. Yeah I know it's way too much, but something has to be done about these miners. And yes obviously I know AMD and Nvidia only care about people buying their cards, not what people do with them. But once again I say, something has to be done about them.

 

From Hilbert:

 

Source: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/inno3d-warns-that-mining-can-break-warranty-on-their-gpus.html

 

Finally.

53 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Tell the difference between mining, folding at home, and other applications. Then tell my why I should be punished for using a card I bought and should have software that can arbitrarily decide that I've done something a company doesn't like. Maybe the next step is they burn your System ID into the card and if you try to sell it then it won't work.

 Because you're using it for something other than it's intended purpose, and with anything, that's grounds for voiding a warranty. Like using  a hammer to do a saw's work, or using a car as a battering ram. I'm not using it for its intended purpose so if it breaks the fault is mine alone and therefore out of warranty.

51 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

And this is why I couldn't care less about miners. You already dropped a shit ton on a GPU, what the fuck is it to ya if one wants to mine on it, do shit involving F@H, etc.?

Folding@home is different from mining because the load time and load average differs from time to time and isn't always 100%. Mining is (usually) always 100%, more so that doing medical research.

 

The mining rush  is like the gold rush - people get hurt and jealous. People without a job (most miners) buy GPUs so they can continue to not have a job, meanwhile people with jobs that actually earned their money through physical work that earn real money can't buy what they saved up for because miners bought them all for their selfish purposes.

[Misanthrope]

3 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Well.. it takes time,. It requires new machinery that doesn't take a day to built. Industrial machines are all custom made, and requires a lot of space. Probably expansion is needed. Also, it takes time, as manufacturer needs to see if this is just a small moment of high demand, or will always be like this.

 

You can bet that memory manufacture are expanding, and will take some time, possible 1-2 years before we see production increased. This is because they are more and more devices using memory chip. Some manufacture of memory chips might opt for more R&D instead for making larger capacity chips in a single chip, to reduce the demand. (example: why need 2x 16GB chip to make 32GB when you can have 1x). We see this with some RAM where only 1 side of the RAM stick is filled, and not both sides.

 

As for GPU manufactures and card manufactures well it takes time as they need to evaluate, but it will rectify itself over time. Either mining will drop, or production will boost.

That's sounds about right. For the purposes of the current generations of cards though it really doesn't looks like 1-2 years would end up affecting them. If the mining trend continues strong (which is anyone's guess but I bet even if Ethereum tanks someone will just make another GPU friendly currency in turn to replace so it could be more permanent than initially thought) we might see the production ramp up for future generations considering it takes a while to retool like you said and such.

[GOTSpectrum]

1 minute ago, Princess Cadence said:

Yeah we all know money is only worth what people believe it is, gold itself only values what you want it to value and I personally even been a girl have never seen any value in jewels "precious metals" hehe

 

At least with normal currency be it Dollars, Euro, Yen, Real, Pesos so on we have a whole government regularization and economy base on top... gives safety that your salary indeed is worth something even if it is only to pay taxes

 

How BitCoins and what not end up valuing real money is an mystery to me but as you said as long as there's people to believe it is worth it there is literally nothing we can about it...

 

My part on the discussion as I partially said already it isn't even anger about the prices or shortages or any of that sort as I am perfectly capable of affording high end hardware on my own regardless the mine craze... but it still bugs me a little how so much electricity, computing power and such is being used for such a selfish meaningless goal... reason why I wish mining equations were at least useful in some sort such is F@H.

Grid coin gives you CCs for working on BOINC projects if that helps. I both mine and fold. Mining to cover the hardware and running costs then folding to you know... Fold. 

[Prysin]

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

thats none of you business either

thats someone elses job and its not amd or nvidias or aib partners

So who's job is that? The government? Crypto currency community? 

 

Your arguments are a joke. Screaming "you have no right" is not an argument. The miners had "no more right" to destroy the whole GPU market than the private customer has to demand that AMD/Nvidia regulate the function of their products. But only the miners benefits from the current situation. 

 

AMD/Nvidia is in their full rights as private corporations to put in place any and all restrictions on their products. They also reserve the right to change their terms of service and warranty without your or my consent. 

 

So you can protest it all you want. That is free speech. But you have no moral, ethical or factual arguments to bare when it comes to what rights others have to protest the actions of mining companies 

[Master Disaster]

They say a picture speaks a thousand words...

 

 

[dexT]

Haha Inno and Club are probably getting their asses handed to them knowing the quality of the cards they produce.

[mynameisjuan]

4 minutes ago, pas008 said:

ignorant?

 

you lack the knowledge to understand that miners are customers too

knowledge to understand supply and demand

knowledge to understand customer privacy

shall I continue?

 

-Yeah they are customers but customers that are using devices for unintended use

-We understand supply and demand. You think AMD and Nvidia can just increase supply with a snap of their fingers, you even know about the memory shortage going around?

-Privacy? Even without drivers seeing what you are doing, you can tell a card has been stressed 24/7 just by looking at the silicon. 

-No, no you shall not.