Finally Someone Decided To Do Something About Miners

[ErickS89]

I have no problem with mining, actually building a mining rig myself but amd/NVidia need to make mining specific cards...

[dexT]

5 minutes ago, ErickS89 said:

I have no problem with mining, actually building a mining rig myself but amd/NVidia need to make mining specific cards...

Ive seen ASUS branded GP106 in the last few days on ebay. They're $300+ so not a deal at all.

[spat55]

Who cares who buys the cards, they pay good money for their product they should be allowed to do with it as they want, just because you dislike how prices have risen since miners have come about doesn't mean they should be penalised. Miners have probably helped the industry with GPU's, if AMD/nVidia could keep up with the production then they would make more money based on how the cards originally kept going out of stock.

[mynameisjuan]

6 minutes ago, pas008 said:

now talk about ignorance

Dude the whole reason GPUs cant handle mining for long is the load and heat 24/7...it kills the card quick and people like you want it fixed for free. The cards designed for mining are built to handle 24/7 load. 

 

Also unlocking video performance due to cuda cores is software. While the actually cuda cores are the hardware. Mining software just uses the API. While Nvidia designed cuda cores to take advatange of gaming performance. 

 

Seriously you need to just stop commenting. Especially when you feel people how press a power button, double click an icon and go to bed are more entitled than people wanting to game with these cards for entertainment.

[cj09beira]

from January to now the number of gpus mining ethereum (estimate based on a average hash rate per card of 28.5 Mh/s) went from 200 thousand cards to as of today 3,160,000 cards (last 5000 mined blocks indicate an even higher 3.5 million cards),  with most of it coming from amd

PS; Considering each one of those cards has 8 vram chips that explains why gddr5 prices are increasing 

[cj09beira]

Just now, H0R53 said:

It's not supply and demand. It's quite the opposite. Prices aren't increasing because the demand is high, prices are increasing because of the increased return rate and the necessity to replace broken parts (that the miners break).

 

I bet you're really fun at parties.

 

Besides talking out your ass, what do you actually do?

you saying that the 3 million cards that started mining in the last 8 months didn't increase gpu demand ? 

plus ethereum isn't that hard on the gpu at all, mine for example run at 60 ºC which is cooler than when i play games with it, the thing that is being stressed the most are the fans 

[NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle]

Wow I posted this and then went to bed and now I see 6 pages, I didn't expect so many posts in such a short period of time.

Here's the thing for those of you that don't want to believe that AMD and Nvidia can release drivers that can detect the use of mining and not confuse it for folding at home, the truth is they can. The solution would be to have the driver search for either the software that is known for mining and block it, or detect for that specific workload and block it or not allow it. Or even do something better at the bios level.

 

As for those who said it's not fair to discriminate between gamers and miners, because miners are costumers to so they should have the right to warranty, I say fuck fair.

They are buying products which were not made to run in that environment.

Those cards were not meant for that task.

So if Inno3d or whoever wants to say no to miners warranty claim, then yes they should say "No warranty for you".

 

And for those who said what do we have with miners? Well some have already said what we have with miners. They are doing nothing good for anyone apart from themselves, the rest of us who just want to buy these cards for what they were made for can't or when we can, we have to buy them at a much higher price than it's value.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[H0R53]

2 minutes ago, pas008 said:

lol

 

Just now, pas008 said:

lol then why when new cards come in stock they still at msrp from reputable sites?

Because buying from the manufacturer is more cost effective. Third party vendors like Amazon have more steps to complete to sell and deliver a product than going to EVGA's site to buy one. Amazon has a much higher level of operation expenses than EVGA does, so it costs more to ship it back to Amazon, they look at it, then determine if they should send it back to EVGA, which costs even more money.

 

EVGA would then replace/refurb it and send it BACK to amazon.

 

Your mom must be so proud of your social skills. 

[dizmo]

Haha, I always seem to wake up to at least one good read on these forums.

 

Interestingly enough, while the sticker is on the product, apparently it's not mentioned in any of their warranty information. Thus, it's invalid. It's just a scare tactic, and likely wouldn't stand up to a courts scrutiny.

 

Everyone blames miners for the huge price increases in cards, and yes, that's definitely a reason, yet they don't take into account the 30% increase in memory because of the NAND shortage.

 

There are things people forget:

• Cards use much less power than before, when RMAs were high
• Cards have much better coolers (aside from maybe AMD reference), and they were the main component dying
• No one has provided proof of increased RMAs, thus, it's a baseless claim
• Someone can correct me if I'm mistaken, but running at 100% load isn't as harmful as fluctuation in load are. Much like running a car nonstop vs stop-and-go
• Ramping up production takes time, as does shipping the item out. Can you guarantee that mining will still be going strong? I thought not
• Mining happened before. Warranties weren't adjusted, firmware wasn't adjusted. Clearly they didn't care enough, and RMAs weren't strong enough to warrant it. Miners are entitled to RMAing their cards when they fail, and the onus is on the AIBs, not the people using their contractual rights

I mean, I do get why everyone's upset, and I too wish that card prices had remained low as it's stalled my build. But I'm not going to go off on such wild tangents, and cry about it.

 

4 hours ago, Armakar said:

AMD and NVidia don't want miners buying these cards.

They don't care who buys their cards, profit is profit. Don't be naive.

4 hours ago, Armakar said:

it literally is their business when miners are costing them tons because miners destroy the cards and then RMA it..

While it was a huge problem back in the day when cards had really high TDPs, I don't think it's nearly as much of an issue as before. The main problem before was shitty coolers, not so much the GPU itself. Coolers are better (at least they should be), the cards use almost half the amount of power, thus I imagine RMAs are much less of an issue.

If you have proof of the contrary I'm more than willing to look at it.

4 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Can they? Because they would have already. The only possible explanation is that they're happy with the underwhelming supply to create an elevated price and increase their margins but that would basically mean "Let's eat a mountain of negative PR for months for a very short term small increase in margins" it makes more sense that they just cannot produce chips fast enough.

You could look at it that way, or you could consider the fact that it takes say a month to ramp up production, a month to get the cards to US shores (we'll use that as an example, less elsewhere). That's two months. Can you guarantee that mining will still be booming? The card manufacturers can't either, and potentially sitting on that much inventory can be disastrous for their bottom line.

4 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

First its inflating GPU prices for people who actually want to buy a GPU to game or for content creation.

 

Second is the cards are dying earlier than normal and increasing RMAs. Every RMA cost a company money then they have to increase cost to make up for it. 

 

This hurts everyone but the miners themselves. All this for fake currency that is wasting power

1. Unfortunate, but such is supply and demand. I bet you wouldn't complain when all those cards hit the market cheap.

2. If you're willing to provide proof that's awesome, otherwise don't spout unsubstantiated thoughts.

3. While it's not a physical currency, it's naive to think it's fake. You can transfer it into real money, thus, it's a real currency.

4 hours ago, Armakar said:

Because mining is so intelligent? Are you implying the consumer is the dumbass? The only people who are powerless here is the consumer who needs graphics cards and has no alternatives. The dumbasses are partners not enforcing that miners shouldn't use these cards to mine.

If you're a smart shopper, and watch stores, you can easily get a card, and often for not that inflated of a price.

Does it require more work than it used to? Sure. If that time invested isn't worth it for you, then spend the extra money.

4 hours ago, Princess Cadence said:

For all I care you can do whatever you want with your hardware, I just will never understand how can people actually see value in cryptocurrency... I prefer being old fashion/oldschool and just get real money from a real job...

While there are indeed miners that don't have jobs, there are tons that do, and simply do this on the side.

I have several friends that mine with 5+ cards, all make well over $50k/yr and often work 60 hour weeks.

4 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Because RMA rates are now through the damn roof and cos AMD and Nvidia want repeat loyal customers to get their hands on GPUs.

Two problems with what you said.

1. You have no proof of increased RMA rates. This isn't like it was before where the cards were high TDP and the coolers were inadequate, both sides have better TDPs these days.

2. Repeat loyal customers. Miners buy what, 5+ cards? That's probably 15 years worth of a "loyal consumer", who really, is going to buy regardless. They're still going to sell cards, they're just selling more, to people who wouldn't normally buy them.

3 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

Then what would you use for 1440p?  A 1070?  That isn't going to cut it if you want to play any demanding game on high or ultra.

Kind of an odd comment, considering 1080s aren't really hit by the mining boom anyway...

3 hours ago, The Benjamins said:

I am soon going to be in the market for a $300-$400 card but my options kinda suck right now.

If you look around and wait cards do pop up. I was looking at MemEx yesterday and they had 3 or 4 models of AMD cards (570s/580s) for the same price they were at launch before the boom.

3 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

How does wanting to buy a GPU for content creation or gaming mean I am entitled? You know the two things that desktop and workstation cards are designed FROM THE GROUND UP TO DO?

 

But yet saying I am going to use my card 100% for 6 months before it dies from heat and now request the manufacturer to replace it for free when a person using it for gaming and content will last them 3-4 years easily is not entitled? 

 

I want to play games and he wants to render to support his job, yet you want to click two buttons and walk away and then demand they replace your equipment so you can make money by literally doing nothing....hah and you say we are entitled. 

You're not entitled to gaming. If you can't afford to play, then you don't, and companies aren't required to provide you with hardware priced at a level you can afford. They don't need to increase supply at their own peril. You can easily play and render to your hearts desire if you pony up the cash. You can easily buy a 1050. Those can game. Can't game at the level you want? Tough shit. You're not entitled to that level of performance.

The warranty is provided, and it doesn't have mining included in any of it's literature. Therefore those people are entitled to it.

3 hours ago, Armakar said:

Exactly. Your options are:

 

Wait until the mining craze stops (who knows when that will be)

Buy a very, very overpriced RX580/GTX 1060 (if you can even find one)

Wait longer

Buy a $200 card that won't cut it at all

Wait until CPUs are fast enough to have IGPUs that can max out 16K triple A titles

Quit gaming forever

Wait

trash options.. fuck the miners

You could make more money and buy a card that meets your needs. That's an option.

You could buy a used card, and wait for the hype to be over. Another option.

Not all 1060s and 580s are overpriced. If you wait and look, you'll find one.

Quit gaming forever is nonsensical bullshit.

3 hours ago, The Benjamins said:

For this to really be solved is for ASICs to come out for all these different types of mining or changing the cryptocurrencies to use a different mining model like POS

Wasn't this supposed to happen next month?

3 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

The other is 24/7 operation that kills the card in 6 months easily

Proof that they die that quickly?
Even back when cards were twice the TDP with worse coolers they didn't die that quickly.

And 3 - 4 years for a normal card used a few hours a day? Bullshit. I've rarely seen one die.

3 hours ago, Ben Quigley said:

What you have to remember is fiat money, or real money is only worth something because people are crazy and think it is. Our money isn't backed by a gold reserve anymore. Sometimes it's backed by a small percentage but apart from that crypto currencies are exactly the same.

I've often wondered how much longer the monetary system will stand up. It'll have to die off eventually, and I imagine a universal wage will be the start of it.

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

As for GPU manufactures and card manufactures well it takes time as they need to evaluate, but it will rectify itself over time. Either mining will drop, or production will boost.

I don't think we'll see increased production, especially right now with the NAND shortage as it's an even bigger investment for the manufacturer. Mining is such a volatile thing that it's foolish to flood the market with cards, hoping that it'll still be booming by the time they hit US shores. The last thing you want is product that sits in warehouses unsold when the next generation of cards comes out, and blows them away performance wise.

3 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

What they do with them, sure. The fact I can't get a GPU for anything less than +25% MSRP because of them? Just try and tell me that's not my business.

Do you know what that S stands for?

3 hours ago, H0R53 said:

GOU engine load, and small BIOS scripts to log application CRCs to compare against a database.

Please be quiet.

It's everyone's business, because it's people with jobs working their ass off versus people without jobs sitting at home all day wasting electricity and air.

-No they aren't

-This isn't S+D, this is artificial inflation

-Customer privacy doesn't exist

-No, I think you should stop posting ignorant things.

What? It's exactly supply and demand. There's little supply, so demand goes up, as do prices. The GPU makers would love to sell more cards, but at the same time, it's stupid to manufacture cards in huge quantities and hope that mining is still a thing. It takes a month for them to even hit US shores, mining is so volatile that you could lose massive amounts of money.

It's a double sided sword. Yes, they're selling tons of cards now, but the used market will be saturated once the boom dies. So, that only increases the unease of increasing supply.

 

As for the people without jobs comment, that's just asinine. Most miners I know likely work and earn more than you.

3 hours ago, H0R53 said:

No, because they artificially inflated the market so people who actually worked hard for their money can't buy a GPU with the money they earned, instead of the lazy assholes with crazy 1070 mining rigs who didn't earn a dime of their money.

-snip-

Working people can still buy a GPU, they just have to pay more. Don't make enough money? Well, sounds more like a personal problem. It's not artificially inflated, it's a S&D issue, amplified by a monstrously unstable factor.

They're making mining GPUS. So clearly they realize that the GPU is capable, and thus, used for mining.  You're just upset that it's raised pricing.

3 hours ago, Pohernori said:

Its not that they are special, they will be the cards without "warranty void if mining" stickers

Which really is irrelevant if they have no way to tell you've been mining. I wonder if they'll be cheaper since there's no extra cost for connectors...

2 hours ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

Didn't that really screw AMD over with the 200 series? They overproduced and then when Litecoin mining crashed all that extra inventory of Hawaii cards got sold dirt cheap. Getting an R9 290 back then for $200 to $230 was unreal. Back in 2014 that was a 1070/1080 equivalent.

Aye, that's one of their fears...though AMD cards had massive power draw back then, and combined with inadequate coolers resulted in massive RMAs. I don't think we'll see as big of an RMA issue this time around.

I can't wait for those cheap cards to hit the market.

[cj09beira]

Just now, NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle said:

Wow I posted this and then went to bed and now I see 6 pages, I didn't expect so many posts in such a short period of time.

Here's the thing for those of you that don't want to believe that AMD and Nvidia can release drivers that can detect the use of mining and not confuse it for folding at home, the truth is they can. The solution would be to have the driver search for either the software that is known for mining and block it, or detect for that specific workload and block it or not allow it. Or even do something better at the bios level.

 

As for those who said it's not fair to discriminate between gamers and miners, because miners are costumers to so they should have the right to warranty, I say fuck fair.

They are buying products which were not made to run in that environment.

Those cards were not meant for that task.

So if Inno3d or whoever wants to say no to miners warranty claim, then yes they should say "No warranty for you".

 

And for those who said what do we have with miners? Well some have already said what we have with miners. They are doing nothing good for anyone apart from themselves, the rest of us who just want to buy these cards for what they were made for can't or when we can, we have to buy them at a much higher price than it's value.

 

 

 

 

 

 

btw that wont work, miners aren't stupid and wont update there software if  amd/nvidea did that, even if it was in the bios level they would just flash it, there is no way of stopping them from mining 

[pas008]

7 minutes ago, H0R53 said:

 

Because buying from the manufacturer is more cost effective. Third party vendors like Amazon have more steps to complete to sell and deliver a product than going to EVGA's site to buy one. Amazon has a much higher level of operation expenses than EVGA does, so it costs more to ship it back to Amazon, they look at it, then determine if they should send it back to EVGA, which costs even more money.

 

EVGA would then replace/refurb it and send it BACK to amazon.

 

Your mom must be so proud of your social skills. 

lol personal attack again

that doesnt sound like price increase from rma's which you originally stated

oh wow

[Lurick]

1 hour ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

So annoying. Generating money for doing absolutely nothing useful.

So annoying, playing games and doing absolutely nothing useful

[Zodiark1593]

2 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Well is actually not that difficult to figure out: most flesh and bone gamers tend to die after 50 to 80 continuous hours of gaming so after logging about that much, yeah you can assume they're miners 99% of the time.

Uhmm, I use my card for 3d rendering, not mining.

 

 

[SteveGrabowski0]

1 minute ago, Lurick said:

So annoying, playing games and doing absolutely nothing useful

Miners aren't creating anything useful. The devs who made those games I paid for were making something useful for the money.

[Lurick]

1 minute ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

Miners aren't creating anything useful. The devs who made those games I paid for were making something useful for the money.

Define useful. Games aren't useful to society, they don't benefit anyone other than the people who make them in the form of money. Miners are making "money" directly.

[TheRandomness]

-Right. Thread somewhat cleaned. Can you people calm down please? I know I've hidden some useful posts but they also contained attacks. Now, one last try before the thread gets locked.

[itzsnookums]

everyone needs to chill, not all miners are running multiple GPUs.

I have one 980 and it just mines when im not using it..no where near 24/7. Maybe makes $15 a week.

If i decided to use my graphics card for mining, well who the hell cares, i paid for the card and i will do with it as i please

every-time someone whines about miners makes me want to buy another graphics card

 

then there are people like my buddy that has all the graphics cards......judgement is still out since he won't trade me his 980ti for my 980 lol

[TVwazhere]

1 hour ago, NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle said:

As for those who said it's not fair to discriminate between gamers and miners, because miners are costumers to so they should have the right to warranty, I say fuck fair.

I would take your own advice then, and realize life isn't fair.

 

GPU's are not solely meant for gaming. Doesn't matter what they're marketed as, their usefulness goes beyond rendering as many images as fast as possible. As a CAD technician I might choose to use an EVGA 1060 SSC instead of a workstation GPU because the performance is the same, but costs 1/5th less. There are MANY uses a GPU can be utilized, and trying to limit hardware to specifically one purpose or requesting a manufacturer prevent functionality for a specific segment of a market is again, very close minded. 

[vanished]

Quote

So Inno3D has finally decided to do something about these damn miners who do nothing but waste power and stealing our gaming cards.

Wow, the salt is real lol

[Drak3]

Ultimately, few GPUs have intended uses. They have intended users.

GTX/RX series are intended for consumers.

Quadro, Tesla, FirePro, Radeon Pro, Radeon WX, Frontier, all prosumer to enterprise.

Beyond that, AMD and Nvidia don't give a shit about what does what. Hell, they don't give a shit if a consumer uses a top end enterprise model to watch 144p cat videos. A sale is a sale.

 

And in the end, AMD and Nvidia are making more money that they can dump into RnD and expanding manufacturing. If Navi/Volta successors are better due to that, I'll take the growing pains of miners sucking up stock in the short term.

[SteveGrabowski0]

40 minutes ago, pas008 said:

investing money and waiting to see if it pays off isnt useful

 

oh boy

no stock market investing or retirement investing for me

Umm, you're putting capital into a company you believe in when you buy their stock.

[Whispre]

The original post in this thread, and much of the content feels more like an illogical emotional rant than tech news.

[NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle]

28 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

I would take your own advice then, and realize life isn't fair.

 

GPU's are not solely meant for gaming. Doesn't matter what they're marketed as, their usefulness goes beyond rendering as many images as fast as possible. As a CAD technician I might choose to use an EVGA 1060 SSC instead of a workstation GPU because the performance is the same, but costs 1/5th less. There are MANY uses a GPU can be utilized, and trying to limit hardware to specifically one purpose or requesting a manufacturer prevent functionality for a specific segment of a market is again, very close minded. 

Nice way of spinning something in your incorrect way of viewing things.

[WMGroomAK]

Just my two cents on this topic (although I think it's already been well stated and repeated), if you are a consumer who purchases a product, then you can do whatever you want with that product, whether it is Crypto-Mining, F@H, gaming, modding, whatever.  At the same time, it is on you as a consumer to realize that a manufacturer does not have to honor a warranty if you perform an activity with it that goes beyond their specified use case.  I'm fairly sure that most Crypto-Miners already take this approach and are not constantly RMA-ing GPUs back to manufacturers.  At the same time, if I was a manufacturer, I might want to have a deal with a couple of Crypto-Miners or even run in house a small mining bed just as a stress test of my product.

[TVwazhere]

3 minutes ago, NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle said:

Nice way of spinning something in your incorrect way of viewing things.

1 hour ago, NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle said:

They are buying products which were not made to run in that environment.

Those cards were not meant for that task.

I would argue my points are still valid and are still relevant to the conversation. Especially since you're made the claim that GPU's are not meant for computing, which is an oversimplification of what GPU mining is. 

I see no issue in the way I view things, that being I take a look from many angles and come to my own conclusion based on the evidence presented. Just because I come to a different conclusion that you does not make me wrong. Note at no point did i ever say "You are wrong" or "you are misinformed", only suggesting that you are not viewing this problem in a broad enough perspective. 

The equivalent of this would be me bitching about having to settle for a Ford Focus ST because too many people want the Focus RS, so the price goes up and they're near impossible to find because they're bought immediately and then not driven the way I would personally drive them, then they go and have the car serviced under warranty. You dont see me complaining to Ford telling them they cant warranty the car just because they brought it off roading instead of staying on the pavement. That's not my decision to make.

I have no right to tell anyone what they can and cant use a product for they legally bought with their own money, OR a company they should or should not support the product or customer based on the product's use, and neither can you.