R9 390X Achieves 8GB HBM with Dual Link Interposer not HBM2

[BiG StroOnZ]

One of our sources confirmed to us that the Radeon R9 390X will be a single GPU card (Fiji XT) with 8GB of HBM memory

 

 

AMD manages to integrate 8GB of HBM memory at its peak thanks to a series of improvements to the interposer TSV developed with SK Hynix: the technology in question is called "Dual Link Interposer" (from 4 to 8-Hi-Hi). With a Dual Link Interposing design, SK Hynix will be able to stack 4x (Dual 1GB HBM modules) via an Interposer (2.5D stacking).This will allow AMD to take advantage of a larger amount of memory without having to wait for the arrival of the HBM 2nd generation.

 

2x 4-HI HBM1 (which should technically be called 8-Hi-Hi according to nomenclature rules) features a 1024-bit interface, two prefetch operations per IO (dual command) and can push 128GB per second per pin. The tRC is 48nm, tCCD is 2ns (1tCK), and VDD is 1.2V. 

 

 

 

Source: http://www.bitsandchips.it/hardware/9-hardware/5509-la-radeon-r9-390x-fiji-xt-avra-8gb-di-hbm-e-sara-single-gpu

 

So here is another source confirming that the 390X will be shipped with 8GB HBM, and previously we weren't really sure how they were planning on doing this but the source from bitsandchips seems to have an explanation that they developed a method to employ 8GB of HBM via an interposer. Which means, if AMD is delivering 8GB of HBM on their high end R9 390 and R9 390X cards and NVIDIA is only putting 6GB on their big GM200 consumer cards how will that play out in the market? Especially if they perform identical or are around the same price range. Does that mean the extra two gigabytes will give AMD the edge in taking back some of the market? Will AMD only have cards carrying 8GB of HBM or will they offer 4GB models too? These are a few questions we will have answered in the coming months. But sooner than later because according to the article AMD's new R9 390 series cards will be featured at Computex so a little more than a month away from concrete details. And of course I imagine, two weeks before that date we will get some more solid leaks with better confirmations. 

[AlwaysFSX]

How would that effect memory performance? I'm sure there would be some amount of increased latency.

[Enderman]

are you seriously talking about a 2GB difference between 6GB and 8GB of vram as "leading edge" to "take back the market" ???

LOLOLOL

you've got to be kidding me

6GB is already enough for 6k at ultra

plus the titan X has 12GB for those who want to do triple 4k (which 8GB is not enough for)

 

also its was already known the 390x was a single GPU card

did you think the 290x was dual GPU or what

[Whorax]

Was about to create a thread about this. Didn't have enough time to read all about it though, so it's just going to be 2 x 4GB VRAM? Interesting I guess.

Just waiting to see how the 390X compares to the Titan X so I can decide which to buy.

[AlwaysFSX]

Can you explain why there might be?

It's adding another step in accessing the memory, there's going to be some latency increase.

[Opcode]

How would that effect memory performance? I'm sure there would be some amount of increased latency.

It just raises the TSV so that HBM can be stacked on top of each other (e.g. 4 Hi -> 8 Hi). TSV are extremely fast so I doubt there will be any problems at all.

[CoolaxGaming]

are you seriously talking about a 2GB difference between 6GB and 8GB of vram as "leading edge" to "take back the market" ???

LOLOLOL

you've got to be kidding me

6GB is already enough for 6k at ultra

plus the titan X has 12GB for those who want to do triple 4k (which 8GB is not enough for)

 

also its was already known the 390x was a single GPU card

did you think the 290x was dual GPU or what

AMD usually prices new series around $700, less than the titan x...

Also if you were a newbie and you looked at a 4gb 980 and a liquid cooled 390x with double vram, which one you buy?

[AlwaysFSX]

It just raises the TSV so that HBM can be stacked on top of each other (e.g. 4 Hi -> 8 Hi). TSV are extremely fast so I doubt there will be any problems at all.

Alrighty, I'll take your word for it.

[spwath]

i have a 1gb card...

 

im sad

[SurvivorNVL]

It's going to be difficult to snatch up one or three 390x's if they're in short supply, but.. I will do it.  For the children!

[Derangel]

It's going to be difficult to snatch up one or three 390x's if they're in short supply, but.. I will do it.  For the children!

As long as the Bitminning market doesn't resurge hopefully it won't be as hard or expensive to find one.

[Glenwing]

So they basically are using double capacity chips... Just HBM style. Pretty clear move, not sure why anyone would be confused on how AMD would achieve 8GB when 8-hi stacks have been part of the HBM spec from the beginning. I could have called that easily lol.

But here is my prediction since rumors tend to spiral quickly on this forum like a giant game of telephone, people will start using the term "2x4GB" for the 390X instead of 8GB because that's the wording used here. And within 2 weeks it will end up with people spreading rumors about how the 390X only has 4GB effective VRAM because it's 2x4GB therefore something something nonsense... and a bunch of other people will just think it's a dual-GPU card.

[Prastupok]

I don't understand why people are focusing so much on the memory. Memory bandwidth isn't a bottleneck... the core is.

[BOT Edward]

are you seriously talking about a 2GB difference between 6GB and 8GB of vram as "leading edge" to "take back the market" ???

LOLOLOL

you've got to be kidding me

6GB is already enough for 6k at ultra

plus the titan X has 12GB for those who want to do triple 4k (which 8GB is not enough for)

 

also its was already known the 390x was a single GPU card

did you think the 290x was dual GPU or what

 

A company doing something that the other company hasn't done, to release their newer generation of products without waiting is actually pretty "leading edge" as you put it.

This type of technology is pretty advanced and won't have to worry about the complications of a new HBM 2 (assuming there will be some slight issues).

 

It's not just the fact that "oh it has only 2gb more VRAM"

[Opcode]

So they basically are using double capacity chips... Just HBM style. Pretty clear move, not sure why anyone would be confused on how AMD would achieve 8GB when 8-hi stacks have been part of the HBM spec from the beginning. I could have called that easily lol.

But here is my prediction since rumors tend to spiral quickly on this forum like a giant game of telephone, people will start using the term "2x4GB" for the 390X instead of 8GB because that's the wording used here. And within 2 weeks it will end up with people spreading rumors about how the 390X only has 4GB effective VRAM because it's 2x4GB therefore something something nonsense... and a bunch of other people will just think it's a dual-GPU card.

8-Hi stacks will come with the second generation of HBM. The first generation tops out at 4 dram stacks. Although the method used is pretty much along the same basis stacking 2 x 4-Hi for equivalent of an 8-Hi stack. It will function not much differently other than being 8 x 4-Hi stacks rather than 4 x 4-Hi stacks that they will use on Arctic Islands. I'm sure we'll see people try to pick it apart to be as bad Nvidia's 3.5 GB situation. AMD suggests in excess of 1 TB/s of memory bandwidth on Arctic Islands so I'm guessing speculation will begin with 16 GB of VRAM on the R9 490X (4 x 4-Hi = 16 GB @ 1 TB/s).

[CoolaxGaming]

So they basically are using double capacity chips... Just HBM style. Pretty clear move, not sure why anyone would be confused on how AMD would achieve 8GB when 8-hi stacks have been part of the HBM spec from the beginning. I could have called that easily lol.

But here is my prediction since rumors tend to spiral quickly on this forum like a giant game of telephone, people will start using the term "2x4GB" for the 390X instead of 8GB because that's the wording used here. And within 2 weeks it will end up with people spreading rumors about how the 390X only has 4GB effective VRAM because it's 2x4GB therefore something something nonsense... and a bunch of other people will just think it's a dual-GPU card.

What do you expect?

This is the internet

[BiG StroOnZ]

 

are you seriously talking about a 2GB difference between 6GB and 8GB of vram as "leading edge" to "take back the market" ???

LOLOLOL

you've got to be kidding me

6GB is already enough for 6k at ultra

plus the titan X has 12GB for those who want to do triple 4k (which 8GB is not enough for)

 

also its was already known the 390x was a single GPU card

did you think the 290x was dual GPU or what

 

You must not remember this leak:

 

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/37373-amd-fiji-has-two-gpus

 

Where they stated Fiji was a dual-GPU card, so this is confirmation that it is not a dual-GPU card but definitely a single GPU card (also in that leak they exclaimed that the reason why they arrived at 8GB HBM was because each chip had 4GB of HBM). 

 

Also, you must not remember that a lot of people who buy products don't necessarily go on forums or watch Youtube videos. You do realize we are a Niche section of the market that goes to places like Overclock.net and Linustechtips forums etc. etc. The majority of people don't do this. They just buy whatever they think looks better or sounds better. I mean I know people who are into PC gaming, actually most of my acquaintances I acquired throughout my years that are PC gamers and build their own PC's do not check forums or benchmarks or reviews ever. I mean I have a friend who grabbed an FX-8150 when the 3570k was out and I told him repeatedly not to buy that chip because it was going to be a huge bottleneck for gaming. He didn't listen to me, and didn't care about any of the benchmarks I sent him. Now I reacquainted myself with him again a few years later and he's looking to upgrade his graphics card to a friggin GTX 980, still with the FX-8150. He also wasn't sure if he should upgrade his motherboard and cpu or get the 980. I told him he would be better off upgrading the motherboard and CPU to at least an Intel i5. Sent him more benchmarks of an 8350 and and 8150 being a bottleneck in games. He just shunned it off like it was no big deal. Not an eyeopening experience like wow my chip is that bad, I should have known better. Back to the main point, this is the majority of the market, not us people who go to forums and watch Youtube reviews. It's not like the person I'm talking about with the 8150 is not intelligent, he graduated with a bachelors in computer science and holds a pretty nice job because of it. It's just that people like us who go on forums, read reviews and benchmarks, watch youtube videos related to computer hardware are a small percentage of the market.

 

So when people see 8GB of memory vs 6GB of memory they automatically assume that it is better. So this is one of the reasons why I asked the question (there are other reasons), will this give them an advantage in the market place, because remember we forum goers are a small percentage of the actual market. I'd also disagree that 8GB is not enough for 4K Surround or Triple 4K, regardless of whether you have a Titan X or a R9 390X you are going to have to lower settings to achieve proper framerates at that resolution because cards really don't scale well after two and even the few games that do scale well with three isn't large enough to make that much of a difference where you are suddenly going to be able to play 4K Surround maxed out (which is where high VRAM utilization will come into play).

[Enderman]

A company doing something that the other company hasn't done, to release their newer generation of products without waiting is actually pretty "leading edge" as you put it.

This type of technology is pretty advanced and won't have to worry about the complications of a new HBM 2 (assuming there will be some slight issues).

 

It's not just the fact that "oh it has only 2gb more VRAM"

what do you think the titan X is...

12GB is prety "leading edge" imo, something AMD isnt doing is making the most powerful GPU in the world

[MoonSpot]

i have a 1gb card...

 

im sad

*hugs*

I know your pain :_:

[Enderman]

AMD usually prices new series around $700, less than the titan x...

Also if you were a newbie and you looked at a 4gb 980 and a liquid cooled 390x with double vram, which one you buy?

compare it to the rumored 980ti, which will have 6GB and perform better

[CoolaxGaming]

compare it to the rumored 980ti, which will have 6GB and perform better

Seems like the 390x beats the titan x and the 980ti

 

 

EDIT: Appropriate response to appropriate post

[Enderman]

 

 

 

You must not remember this leak:

 

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/37373-amd-fiji-has-two-gpus

 

Where they stated Fiji was a dual-GPU card, so this is confirmation that it is not a dual-GPU card but definitely a single GPU card (also in that leak they exclaimed that the reason why they arrived at 8GB HBM was because each chip had 4GB of HBM). 

 

Also, you must not remember that a lot of people who buy products don't necessarily go on forums or watch Youtube videos. You do realize we are a Niche section of the market that goes to places like Overclock.net and Linustechtips forums etc. etc. The majority of people don't do this. They just buy whatever they think looks better or sounds better. I mean I know people who are into PC gaming, actually most of my acquaintances I acquired throughout my years that are PC gamers and build their own PC's do not check forums or benchmarks or reviews ever. I mean I have a friend who grabbed an FX-8150 when the 3570k was out and I told him repeatedly not to buy that chip because it was going to be a huge bottleneck for gaming. He didn't listen to me, and didn't care about any of the benchmarks I sent him. Now I reacquainted myself with him again a few years later and he's looking to upgrade his graphics card to a friggin GTX 980, still with the FX-8150. He also wasn't sure if he should upgrade his motherboard and cpu or get the 980. I told him he would be better off upgrading the motherboard and CPU to at least an Intel i5. Sent him more benchmarks of an 8350 and and 8150 being a bottleneck in games. He just shunned it off like it was no big deal. Not an eyeopening experience like wow my chip is that bad, I should have known better. Back to the main point, this is the majority of the market, not us people not go to forums and watch Youtube reviews. It's not like the person I'm talking about with the 8150 is not intelligent, he graduated with a bachleors in computer science and holds a pretty nice job because of it. It's just that people like us who go on forums, read reviews and benchmarks, watch youtube videos related to computer hardware are a small percentage of the market.

 

So when people see 8GB of memory vs 6GB of memory they automatically assume that it is better. So this is one of the reasons why I asked the question (there are other reasons), will this give them an advantage in the market place, because remember we forum goers are a small percentage of the actual market. I'd also disagree that 8GB is not enough for 4K Surround or Triple 4K, regardless of whether you have a Titan X or a R9 390X you are going to have to lower settings to achieve proper framerates at that resolution because cards really don't scale well after two and even the few games that do scale well with three isn't large enough to make that much of a difference where you are suddenly going to be able to play 4K Surround maxed out.

 

yeah this is why you dont base your facts off of leaks and rumors

 

also if a single 4K screen uses over 3GB of vram, three of them are going to be using over 8GB for sure

and no one titan x is definitely not enough but when you put three or four of them then you can definitely get 60fps on high accross three 4k screens

since vram does not stack, even if you put three or four 390xs you would still have the 8GB bottleneck

[CoolaxGaming]

yeah this is why you dont base your facts off of leaks and rumors

 

also if a single 4K screen uses over 3GB of vram, three of them are going to be using over 8GB for sure

and no one titan x is definitely not enough but when you put three or four of them then you can definitely get 60fps on high accross three 4k screens

since vram does not stack, even if you put three or four 390xs you would still have the 8GB bottleneck

Didnt u just mention the "Rumored 980ti"

Stay with the facts

[Enderman]

Seems like the 390x beats the titan x and the 980ti

 

i really hope you didn't just post that fake performance graph rumour thinking it was real

[CoolaxGaming]

i really hope you didn't just post that fake performance graph rumour thinking it was real

Its leaked.

Just like the 980ti.

How do you know it is fake