Analysis of the USB-C dongle/headset mess. Bring back the 3.5 mm jack!

[WMGroomAK]

An article over on PCWorld looks at why you may or may not be able to easily use your third party USB-C headset or dongles with your new phone.  A big part of this problem arises from whether the phone has/is using a built in DAC or not.  What this leads to is that some dongles will work across a range of devices while others won't and the same with the headset.  Another issue comes from a lack of uniformity across devices.    

 

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3284186/mobile/bring-back-the-headphone-jack-why-usb-c-audio-still-doesnt-work.html

Quote

Smartphone makers, it’s time to have that come-to-Apple moment, where we tell you that it’s time to put the 3.5mm analog headset jack back on the phone—at least until you get your USB-C audio act in order. After plugging in a fistful of USB-C dongles and USB-C headsets into a stack of USB-C phones, I’ve discovered that it’s a mess, especially for third-party headsets. Here's why.

 

The first problem is lack of basic compatibility. For example, if you take the USB-C dongle that came with a Motorola Z2 Force or Sony Xperia XZ2, it won't work with a Google Pixel 2 XL, Samsung Galaxy S8, or OnePlus 6.

 

The USB-C dongle that comes with the Pixel 2 XL though, will work across all of those phones, as does the USB-C headset that Huawei includes with its P20 Pro.

...

These incompatibilities all seem to come down to how each phone maker has implemented its phone, USB-C dongle, and bundled USB-C headset. The key component is whether that headset has a DAC, or digital-to-analog converter. As its name implies, the DAC converts the digital audio into analog audio.

 

The vast majority of bundled dongles I tried—from Lenovo, Sony, and Huawei—do not include DACs. Instead they rely on DACs inside the phone to convert the signal to analog before pumping it out to the headset via USB-C. These phones essentially treat the USB-C port like a USB-C-shaped 3.5mm jack, and it’s probably not unfair to call these analog USB-C dongles.

 

The exception I’ve seen so far is the USB-C dongle bundled with Google’s Pixel 2 XL. It includes a DAC to read the digital signal from the phone. Because it’s essentially a USB Audio Accessory (a class of USB audio device that should work on all things USB), every phone I tried it on, as well as a few laptops, largely work the way you expect them to.  We can consider these digital USB-C dongles.

...

The frustrating part of it all is the lack of uniformity and logic here. Why won’t an analog USB-C dongle work on a Pixel 2XL or OnePlus 6 when both phones (or their United States versions, anyway) are based on Qualcomm’s Snapdragon 835 and Snapdragon 845 SOCs, which both seem to include the company's Aqstic DAC? 

 

In Google’s defense, company officials told us it was just following the rules. Although analog audio over USB-C can be done, it’s not actually part of the spec for headsets. Sure, it might be convenient, but it’s not required, sorry!

 

To make it even more maddening, several phones we tried with the Pixel 2 XL digital USB-C dongle did work, but not until you switched on USB storage in the OS. Yeah, totally intuitive. Better still, you have to do this every time you insert the headset or dongle to make it work.

...

The exceptions we ran into—and I’m sure there are more—include Google’s Pixel 2 XL and the new Razer Phone. Neither include analog pass-through at all. While Google points you to a website where you can buy a digital accessory (Thanks Google!), the Razer Phone doesn’t even bothering to tell you why you’re not getting any audio.

 

The problem is only going to multiply as people upgrade and amass a drawer full of USB-C dongles and headsets. Let’s face it: You may give away or sell the phone, but you'll likely keep your old headsets and dongles.

 

While I can understand the want to consolidate the number of ports on a device for issues such as IP rating and convenience.  It either needs to be implemented in a standardized fashion or just bring back the 3.5 mm port.  

[Enderman]

Just do it normally and put the DAC in the adapter or the headphones.

Pushing analog through USB C doesn't reduce the need for a dongle or USB C headphones anyway.

[mynameisjuan]

USB C is a great port but a shit show when it comes to standards and compatibility. 

[Car712]

My question is, why did several companies *cough*Apple*cough* just all of a sudden start forcing USB-C on people?? It just made everything complicated, and basically forced people to buy more dongles and hubs I mean, there was almost no support at that time, and there still is almost none today!

 

(I know apple is not the only company to do this, but still)

[JoseGuya]

Why would you not put a DAC into the dongle? The whole reasoning behind the usb-c dongle was to save space in the phone, right? So why remove the 3.5 jack and still have the DAC inside the phone? Makes absolutely no sense. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, bobbyd52 said:

My question is, why did companies *cough*Apple*cough* just all of a sudden start forcing USB-C on people?? It just made everything complicated, and basically forced people to buy more dongles and hubs I mean, there was almost no support at that time, and there still is almost none today!

Well, portability. I might be unique on this tech forum, but the average Joe doesn't use ethernet anymore, doesn't use  USB's anymore, needs a dongle to connect to his TV anyway, and if you buy a Mac you can probably afford a dongle for that. 

 

Transitioning to USB-C means the laptop can be much thinner, and less complex due to not having to support archaic interfaces. That means more battery life, and somewhat cheaper (But it's Apple). 

 

No one is forcing you to buy the laptops and no one is forcing you to buy the dongles. You can stick with what you have or look for alternatives if you need. 

[Bouzoo]

9 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

doesn't use  USB's anymore

I can agree with other arguments but this is just pure nonsense. 

[Car712]

6 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

and no one is forcing you to buy the dongles

What I meant by that is (at the time they did the switch), they *basically* forced people who used Ethernet, or USB and had purchased the new laptops to get dongles so that they could even use their existing hardware with their new computer.

 

But yes, I agree that many people today use neither Ethernet or normal USB anymore.

 

(By the way, if anyones looking for a new laptop that has Ethernet, tons of normal USB ports, CD drive, etc, look at HP, I recently got a brand new HP laptop with all of these)

[Bananasplit_00]

why the actiual fuck did we need to loose the 3.5mm jack in the first place? god damn phone makers, i refuse this dongle hell. i will not use a phone that dosent have a 3.5mm jack

[Drak3]

7 minutes ago, JoseGuya said:

Why would you not put a DAC into the dongle? The whole reasoning behind the usb-c dongle was to save space in the phone, right? So why remove the 3.5 jack and still have the DAC inside the phone? Makes absolutely no sense. 

If a phone had ANY speakers (hint: literally every single phone in the planet does), they must have a DAC to use saud speaker(s).

 

The only space theoretically saved would be the jack itself. But as we've seen with every phone that lacks the jack so far, that space saving technique is just wasted.

[Car712]

Just now, Bananasplit_00 said:

why the actiual fuck did we need to loose the 3.5mm jack in the first place? god damn phone makers, i refuse this dongle hell. i will not use a phone that dosent have a 3.5mm jack

Once again, guess who basically started that entire trend.. You guessed right, Apple again, with their love of dongles!!

[Jtalk4456]

My two takeaways:

1. Bring back the headphone jack

2. Make dongles higher quality

[PlayStation 2]

The problem here is that everyone wants their own way with USB-C, making a colossal mess. These phone manufacturers need to agree on something here.

Just now, bobbyd52 said:

Once again, guess who basically started that entire trend.. You guessed right, Apple again, with their love of dongles!!

Apple didn't start a war on specific specs, to be fair. You can't pin them on manufacturers not being able to agree on what they wanna use.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

I can agree with others arguments but this is just pure nonsense. 

Just transfer data over the network or use an internet service. Theres just no reason to use a usb anymore for the average user. You can even bootcamp without a usb.

[Brooksie359]

25 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Well, portability. I might be unique on this tech forum, but the average Joe doesn't use ethernet anymore, doesn't use  USB's anymore, needs a dongle to connect to his TV anyway, and if you buy a Mac you can probably afford a dongle for that. 

 

Transitioning to USB-C means the laptop can be much thinner, and less complex due to not having to support archaic interfaces. That means more battery life, and somewhat cheaper (But it's Apple). 

 

No one is forcing you to buy the laptops and no one is forcing you to buy the dongles. You can stick with what you have or look for alternatives if you need. 

Ethernet is used for most desktops but for laptops it kind of defeats the purpose of the laptop to be fine with. The problem is when all of the major players start to remove a port you want it makes you choose between buying one of the few available phones that still has it or comprimise and buy the one you like the most other than the lack of headphone jack. 

[Blademaster91]

13 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Just transfer data over the network or use an internet service. Theres just no reason to use a usb anymore for the average user. You can even bootcamp without a usb.

Maybe no reason for the Apple user to, meanwhile plenty of phones still have usb 3.1 over type-c or at least a micro SD slot.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Ethernet is used for most desktops but for laptops it kind of defeats the purpose of the laptop to be fine with. The problem is when all of the major players start to remove a port you want it makes you choose between buying one of the few available phones that still has it or comprimise and buy the one you like the most other than the lack of headphone jack. 

Well thats just progress I suppose. Standards come and go. Whether its for the best shows up in sales, thats really what matters to these companies.

[mr moose]

Quote

These phones essentially treat the USB-C port like a USB-C-shaped 3.5mm jack, and it’s probably not unfair to call these analog USB-C dongles.

No probably about it, if a connector passes through analogue signal then it is an analog device.  period.

 

4 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Well thats just progress I suppose. Standards come and go. Whether its for the best shows up in sales, thats really what matters to these companies.

Some technology changes because it is better, some changes because the industry wants to push it and some changes through consumer demand.  But all 3 do not necessarily correlate with each other.   USB became the standard over years of integration, no pc manufacturer ditched the parallel or serial port the day they included a USB, in fact you can still get pc's with those old ports port.   This means that consumer demand did not drive the implementation and improvement of USB, manufacturers did and they did it in a way it did not make consumers have to compromise (you had easily 3-4 upgrade cycles of peripherals and pc's to move to USB without compromise).  However dropping the 3.5 in favor of an alternative that does not appear to have any standards and  forces people to have to buy specific dongles or headphones is not letting sales determine what is best for the consumer, It is giving them limited options and saying choose the best from what we want to produce.

[ScratchCat]

1 hour ago, bobbyd52 said:

My question is, why did several companies *cough*Apple*cough* just all of a sudden start forcing USB-C on people?? It just made everything complicated, and basically forced people to buy more dongles and hubs I mean, there was almost no support at that time, and there still is almost none today!

 

(I know apple is not the only company to do this, but still)

iCourage^TM © ®

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, mr moose said:

No probably about it, if a connector passes through analogue signal then it is an analog device.  period.

 

Some technology changes because it is better, some changes because the industry wants to push it and some changes through consumer demand.  But all 3 do not necessarily correlate with each other.   USB became the standard over years of integration, no pc manufacturer ditched the parallel or serial port the day they included a USB, in fact you can still get pc's with those old ports port.   This means that consumer demand did not drive the implementation and improvement of USB, manufacturers did and they did it in a way it did not make consumers have to compromise (you had easily 3-4 upgrade cycles of peripherals and pc's to move to USB without compromise).  However dropping the 3.5 in favor of an alternative that does not appear to have any standards and  forces people to have to buy specific dongles or headphones is not letting sales determine what is best for the consumer, It is giving them limited options and saying choose the best from what we want to produce.

Definitely agree. All USB-C devices should be compatible with each other. It makes sense that someone can look at a dongle from a PC, say an ethernet or hard drive enclosure, and its USB-C, and if they have a phone with USB-C think, well why can't I use this on my phone, and it should work, after all it does have the capability to work. Apple's implementation is probably the best from the get-go. Full USB-C with TB3 - full compatability. As to regards the DAC, every phone has one built-in for the speakers anyway, so why use an external one to limit compatability, or if you do, to treat as the primary driver. 

[mr moose]

48 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Definitely agree. All USB-C devices should be compatible with each other. It makes sense that someone can look at a dongle from a PC, say an ethernet or hard drive enclosure, and its USB-C, and if they have a phone with USB-C think, well why can't I use this on my phone, and it should work, after all it does have the capability to work. Apple's implementation is probably the best from the get-go. Full USB-C with TB3 - full compatability. As to regards the DAC, every phone has one built-in for the speakers anyway, so why use an external one to limit compatability, or if you do, to treat as the primary driver. 

I really don't care if the dongle is pass through analog or has a dac in it although It does make more sense to use the DAC in the phone so cheaper adapters can be made (they are the bits most liekly to break).  So long as they are all compatible and we have plenty of crossover during the transition.  One of the biggest killers of new tech (IMO) is the lack of crossover time that forces consumers to either run fully with the new tech or avoid it altogether.  

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I really don't care if the dongle is pass through analog or has a dac in it although It does make more sense to use the DAC in the phone so cheaper adapters can be made (they are the bits most liekly to break).  So long as they are all compatible and we have plenty of crossover during the transition.  One of the biggest killers of new tech (IMO) is the lack of crossover time that forces consumers to either run fully with the new tech or avoid it altogether.  

For sure, we saw this with thunderbolt. I had it in my first MacBook, and certainly helped in terms of expandibility, but because it was so proprietary back then, I couldn’t afford the accessories. It was excellent technology, but the older tech was just cheaper and more convenient.

[Curufinwe_wins]

3 hours ago, JoseGuya said:

Why would you not put a DAC into the dongle? The whole reasoning behind the usb-c dongle was to save space in the phone, right? So why remove the 3.5 jack and still have the DAC inside the phone? Makes absolutely no sense. 

The phone always will have speakers and microphones.  Thus they will always need a dac. So the real question is why the F would you ever move away from utilizing the far better DAC inside the phone to an ultraminimized POS on a dongle.

 

"Courage"

[Curufinwe_wins]

3 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

Well, portability.

 

Transitioning to USB-C means the laptop can be much thinner, and less complex due to not having to support archaic interfaces. That means more battery life, and somewhat cheaper (But it's Apple). 

Except it doesn't. Thinner directly results in worse battery. And higher price. The size of a usb A port and additionally even ethernet ports is thin enough that it is literally pointless to go to thinner than those ports support as available volume for batteries drops precipitously.

 

The major space cost for ports is not the port, but rather the PCB for the port inside the device. That pcb space is directly related to the complexity of the connector. You need far less complex and smaller pcbs for an audio port than you do for a thunderbolt 3 port. 

 

Like look at this... not even the most original thing, and the RJ45 is already as thin as usb A, which is perfectly easy to fit on even the best and thinnest ultrabooks (like the spectre 360)

There is no valid excuse for dongles other than lazy and greedy design, driven not by the desire to lower cost of making, but rather by the desire to increase sales of dongles.

[Car712]

15 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

There is no valid excuse for dongles other than lazy and greedy design, driven not by the desire to lower cost of making, but rather by the desire to increase sales of dongles.

I absolutely agree with this!