Analysis of the USB-C dongle/headset mess. Bring back the 3.5 mm jack!

[GoldenLag]

28 minutes ago, NowakVulpix said:

idk man, mid-ranged phones now have more ports than high-end ones ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

flagships are early access hardware. mid-range phones are the true flagship.

 

like the Nokia 6.1 plus is an iphone X, but better in almost every regard. it is also more than half the cost (edit. as in less than 50%, and i am aware the iphone has some clear advantages)

18 minutes ago, asus killer said:

people don't realize the simplest of things. It's in their hands to have or not the 3.5 jack, the consumer has all the power.

its too late when companies have normilized the lack of the jack and marking it as premium instead. (edit: i havent given up, im still only buying jacked phones)

[Quadriplegic]

It's a madness. Apple removed 3.5mm port because of $$$, but it makes no sense for other manufacturers to follow Apple just because of fashion statement.

[D13H4RD]

37 minutes ago, Carclis said:

Well I think the wireless headphones subject is a whole other issue or another way to sell proprietary devices which brings with it a whole other set of problems. Namely compatibility, durability, battery life concerns, interference, audio quality, earbud size and issues regarding how easy they are to lose. I'm not saying the wireless versions Apple offer are bad but they seem like a bit of a niche which exists to solve a problem they created whilst not offering anything new over existing wired versions.

Honestly, whilst I love my 1000XM2, I really wished a standard for proper high fidelity audio exists 

[Vode]

10 hours ago, bobbyd52 said:

My question is, why did several companies *cough*Apple*cough* just all of a sudden start forcing USB-C on people?? It just made everything complicated, and basically forced people to buy more dongles and hubs I mean, there was almost no support at that time, and there still is almost none today!

 

(I know apple is not the only company to do this, but still)

Bold part is the answer to your question. Margin on those dongles is insanely high. Nice additional pocket change for Apple. Squeeze more money out  wherever the can.

[IhazHedont]

4 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

>looks at own LG V10

>laughs in HD660s

>cries while looking at current line up of LG devices

And that is why I got myself a LG G6 SK version. 3.5mm jack and Quad DAC.

My only grief is the unremovable battery. By the time I wanted to buy a V20 it was completely out of stock or horribly overpriced (like 550 euros).

 

I owned also a LG V10 but got the bootloop problem (hardware related, fixed by changing the MB though).

[IntMD]

5 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

The only one that I know of is the just-launched Sony 1000XM3 but there's no indication that it uses USB-C audio. 

 

Assuming this is actually what you meant (not a big headphone guy tbh), it doesn't according to Sony. Below is from an Amazon question.

 

Question:

Two questions: 1. does it have bluetooth 5.0? 2. can you listen through music via usb-c?

Answer:

Hi Leon, 
The headphones support Bluetooth v4.2 and even though the USB C port can only be used for charging, an audio cable is included to use the headphones as a wired pair. 

Sony support team. see less 

[IhazHedont]

2 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Honestly, whilst I love my 1000XM2, I really wished a standard for proper high fidelity audio exists 

There are different wireless standards which reduce the loss of quality, like aptx.

[Type 2501]

I had been raging about this when Apple and HTC remove headphone jack a few years back.

 

If they are replacing the 3.5 jack with the 2.5mm 4 pin balanced output, they can still argue that is for better audio quality and saving space.

 

Removing the headphone jack can move it to the lighting port or type c port make no freaking sense at all. It is just inconvenient without improvement.

 

I understand some would prefer bluetooth, but it still doesn't justify limiting the choice of user who do not.

[Type 2501]

3 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Well I think the wireless headphones subject is a whole other issue or another way to sell proprietary devices which brings with it a whole other set of problems. Namely compatibility, durability, battery life concerns, interference, audio quality, earbud size and issues regarding how easy they are to lose. I'm not saying the wireless versions Apple offer are bad but they seem like a bit of a niche which exists to solve a problem they created whilst not offering anything new over existing wired versions.

One can use bluetooth if it is what fits their purposes, still doesn't justify removing the choice from users who want to use wired headphones.

[Daiyus]

This is one of the reasons I didn't bother upgrading my Xperia Z5 Compact when the contract ended. I don't like the fact that replaceable batteries are no longer a thing (for built in obsolescence). Removing the ability to just plug in a cheap pair of headphones when I want to go for a walk or run is just stupid. If they can make USB-C as universal as the 3.5mm jack was, as well making the headphones just as cheap as current ones then sure (no way am I buying an adapter for my future phone, it should just work), but until then it seems to be a feature that nobody asked for, that doesn't actually help anyone and is designed for no reason at all but to frustrate the customer.

[Sniperfox47]

6 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

USB-C is STILL an absolute clusterball and there are barely any GOOD high-end USB-C options. The only one that I know of is the just-launched Sony 1000XM3 but there's no indication that it uses USB-C audio. 

The AiAiAi TMA2, Libratone Qadapt, Master&Dynamic's MH30/40/50/60, and the Zorloo Aero all have USB-C versions.

 

That's all just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others. And there should be a handful more "Made for Google" ones launching next month alongside the Pixel 3.

[suicidalfranco]

1 hour ago, IhazHedont said:

And that is why I got myself a LG G6 SK version. 3.5mm jack and Quad DAC.

My only grief is the unremovable battery. By the time I wanted to buy a V20 it was completely out of stock or horribly overpriced (like 550 euros).

 

I owned also a LG V10 but got the bootloop problem (hardware related, fixed by changing the MB though).

My gripe now is that I categorically won't buy a glass or metal phone.

Sure there's the Pocophone who would fit my hardware upgrade needs, but it also mean giving up on the DAC, and that's annoying AF.

And no second display, best way to switch between recently opened apps IMO

[asus killer]

5 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

its too late when companies have normilized the lack of the jack and marking it as premium instead. (edit: i havent given up, im still only buying jacked phones)

buying stuff its a democracy, people voted, majority of people didn't care, jacks are almost dead. still it was the consumers decision.

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, asus killer said:

buying stuff its a democracy, people voted, majority of people didn't care, jacks are almost dead. still it was the consumers decision.

i was surprised how lightly people took it after the major backlash. i guess the add-hoc reasoning for the change people made up were good enough i guess. 

[D13H4RD]

2 hours ago, IhazHedont said:

There are different wireless standards which reduce the loss of quality, like aptx.

Using the LDAC codec on mine, actually 

[XenosTech]

9 hours ago, Enderman said:

It's 3 ft.

And I don't game all day on a mobile device, who would ever do that other than an unemployed elementary school kid? 

Gaming on mobile is also pretty dumb imo.

Damn I must be an unemployed elementary school kid then  Cause I play a crap ton of games on my phone at work when there isn't anything for me to do.

[Misanthrope]

16 hours ago, bobbyd52 said:

My question is, why did several companies *cough*Apple*cough* just all of a sudden start forcing USB-C on people?? It just made everything complicated, and basically forced people to buy more dongles and hubs I mean, there was almost no support at that time, and there still is almost none today!

 

(I know apple is not the only company to do this, but still)

It's more insidious than that though: The intention was not simply to just sell more accessories. Yes they're overpriced but in the grand scheme of things they're a drop of water in the ocean of profits Apple generates.

 

What's important here it's what it does to people and the particular problem described in the OP here: chances are you have other devices. Friends or relatives might have cheaper cellphones, you have laptops and tablets probably from some other brands (Or even older Apple products they basically want you to think as "off brand" once it's decided they're obsolete) as well as other headphones.

 

Yet when Apple used the (arguably) most popular tech product ever made and it's new iteration to remove the headphone jack, they basically said "Yes we already know that you want this device, now we can isolate you from all of those other devices so you focus on our device only"

 

That's the true value of the move and the reason why these incompatibility issues will become the norm (And why Apple doesn't follows the USB-C trend until they feel it's a good time to deprecate their older connector and trust me, even if there's nothing to gain from switching away from USB-C they will in the future just to keep the older models old) why every major brand is trying to get you to use their particular brand of launcher/UI for Android and why Samsung initially didn't want to let users disable the bigsby physical button at all: they want you to not only keep buying their products but to isolate you from competitors by making it harder and harder to start using competing products. 

 

That's the most expensive phones now never have 3.5 headphone jacks and why they seem to be to very coldly and calculatingly be pushing it as close as they can to frankly pissing off their customers but not quite, just to achieve as much separation as they can get away with.

[XenosTech]

7 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

>looks at own LG V10

>laughs in HD660s

>cries while looking at current line up of LG devices

I'm crying with you too, I don't wanna upgrade but muh screen

[CTR640]

16 hours ago, bobbyd52 said:

My question is, why did several companies *cough*Apple*cough* just all of a sudden start forcing USB-C on people?? It just made everything complicated, and basically forced people to buy more dongles and hubs I mean, there was almost no support at that time, and there still is almost none today!

 

(I know apple is not the only company to do this, but still)

Simple: companies are following Apple like a damn sheep. They wants to suck on Apple's sausage. Before Apple didn't "invented" USB C, there were no or very less phones with USB C. I myself know for sure I'll never ever buy a phone that doesn't have 3,5mm audio jack. Why? Because I really like my own earphones, I have it literally 10 years or 12! And I have 4 or 5 the same of them. I don't wanna buy a new one, bluetooth and USB-C. Too much of a hassle and as you said: it made everything complicated.

[D13H4RD]

Come to think of it, anyone still remember the ZTE Axon 7?

 

$400 phone and it had extremely killer audio especially for the price 

[Doobeedoo]

Blame OEMs for doing proprietary shit and others not wanting to adopt Type-C at faster rate. Really lame, transition should be faster, everyone should just usu Type-C for phones, peripherals and such. But it seems everyone are scared to go full on cause they are afraid of risk and that majority may not follow. Also with 3.5mm jack vocal crowd on smartphone side. 

I don't care about it myself, having extra wire being attached on my earbuds cable is no problem. But peripherals need to start coming with Type-C as standard already. Some do it. 

[FPSwithaWacomTablet]

14 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

 

 

The major space cost for ports is not the port, but rather the PCB for the port inside the device. That pcb space is directly related to the complexity of the connector. You need far less complex and smaller pcbs for an audio port than you do for a thunderbolt 3 port. 

 

Like look at this... not even the most original thing, and the RJ45 is already as thin as usb A, which is perfectly easy to fit on even the best and thinnest ultrabooks (like the spectre 360)

There is no valid excuse for dongles other than lazy and greedy design, driven not by the desire to lower cost of making, but rather by the desire to increase sales of dongles.

Having played around with EAGLE and KiCAD software lately, I had ideas about creating an Arduino using USB-C connectors.

 

Until I found out how many pins there were. A lot of them are also redundant since "reversible", and for simpler uses the connector itself a waste. Routing wires seems like a pain in the ass,  and even worse when you start delving into high-speed circuitry used in USB 3.0, Thunderbolt, etc.

 

 

Though honestly, this is just a rant from a hobbyist like myself. I would assume real electronics engineers are above this.

 

 

 

 

[Bouzoo]

10 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

>looks at own LG V10

>laughs in HD660s

>cries while looking at current line up of LG devices

>looks at own V30

>cries while using bad headphones

>cries even more while looking at current line of headphones

[suicidalfranco]

1 hour ago, Bouzoo said:

>looks at own V30

>cries while using bad headphones

>cries even more while looking at current line of headphones

Is there really a reason to watch newer headphone?

It's not like there's been a breakthrough in sound fidelity reproduction in the last... 50-70 years

[Bouzoo]

26 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

Is there really a reason to watch newer headphone?

It's not like there's been a breakthrough in sound fidelity reproduction in the last... 50-70 years

It always is. You might get a better, more premium sound for less than you could 5, let alone 50 years ago, even counting inflation. If you know what I mean. 6XX are just an example.