Sony: We removed the headphone jack due to the XZ2's design

[yian88]

13 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

I really hope people realize that this is happening and will stop complaining. The headphone jack is dying, accept it. 

For your sake you better be joking lols, if it were replaced by something else more compact and better yes, but there is no such thing as dying headphone jacks.

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, yian88 said:

For your sake you better be joking lols, if it were replaced by something else more compact and better yes, but there is no such thing as dying headphone jacks.

I'm not 

[D13H4RD]

I'm just gonna keep my jack until the very end.

 

In the meantime, I'll be looking out to see how wireless headphones evolve. So far, not by much, though we did get the 1000XM2 and PXC550

[Trixanity]

49 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

A MacBook is passively cooled and has Core-M CPUs......

Didn't know the iPad had fans.

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, Trixanity said:

Didn't know the iPad had fans.

Boi

[D13H4RD]

21 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Didn't know the iPad had fans.

They do.

[GOTSpectrum]

14 hours ago, Energycore said:

Sony thinking they can out-apple Apple

Next up, beautiful seamless computer cases without front IO.

I'd actually like to see this... Yay cloud solutions and wireless headphones

[YamiYukiSenpai]

I'm so disappointed in you Sony.  I really believed in you.

[Dackzy]

The jack ain't going anywhere any time soon. You can just look at the industry that is based upon it's design. Hell in the recent years we have seen more and more really high end gear based upon the jack connection. The high end IEM market only seem to expand. The market of high end headphones also only seem to expand. In the recent years we have seen headphones like the Focal elaer, clear, utopia and audio Technica ADX5000, plus a few hifiman and audeze models, which are all around 1k or up to 4k USD. 

 

We can also look at the source market, where we have seen schiit, soekris, hifiman, RME, Sony and many more making fairly big leaps in quality.

They all have TRS connectors, also know as the jack. It might be the 3.5 or it might be the 6.3 or both.

That was just as a whole.

 

If we look at the mobile market aka phones and laptops. We have seen phones like the Axon 7, V20 and V30 just to name some. These phones all have one thing in common, they are all focused on audio and from what I have seen then they have sold fairly well. They are great phones for the people who wants good audio on the go and don't want to invest in a DAP. 

But we also have the people that just doesn't want to carry around another stupid ass dongle, just so they can connect their phone to something else than a set of Bluetooth headphones or they just don't want to deal with a stupid ass set of Bluetooth headphones that they need to keep charged. Plus why should they suddenly switch to Bluetooth amd get lower audio quality when their laptop still has a 3.5mm jack.

Hell I would say that the jack is more convenient than Bluetooth for headphones, since you don't have to worry about changing your headphones.

 

To add to that Bluetooth sounds like utter crap, it is absolutely awful for music.

 

I know that I personally would never buy a phone without a 3.5mm jack and I know people that love apple, but they don't want to upgrade from their 6s because they still want to have a 3.5mm jack.

 

The reason Sony gave was probably the biggest BS reason I have heard in a while. TBH the phone looks like a Lumia phone and a 3.5mm looked just fine on one of those. Also wtf a phone is a tool, it isn't a piece of jewelery, but I guess Sony treats it like jewelery.

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

The reason Sony gave was probably the biggest BS reason I have heard in a while.

No, it was the most honest.

 Wrong, but honest.

4 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

The jack ain't going anywhere any time soon. You can just look at the industry that is based upon it's design. Hell in the recent years we have seen more and more really high end gear based upon the jack connection. The high end IEM market only seem to expand. The market of high end headphones also only seem to expand. In the recent years we have seen headphones like the Focal elaer, clear, utopia and audio Technica ADX5000, plus a few hifiman and audeze models, which are all around 1k or up to 4k USD. 

 

We can also look at the source market, where we have seen schiit, soekris, hifiman, RME, Sony and many more making fairly big leaps in quality.

They all have TRS connectors, also know as the jack. It might be the 3.5 or it might be the 6.3 or both.

That was just as a whole.

 

If we look at the mobile market aka phones and laptops. We have seen phones like the Axon 7, V20 and V30 just to name some. These phones all have one thing in common, they are all focused on audio and from what I have seen then they have sold fairly well. They are great phones for the people who wants good audio on the go and don't want to invest in a DAP. 

But we also have the people that just doesn't want to carry around another stupid ass dongle, just so they can connect their phone to something else than a set of Bluetooth headphones or they just don't want to deal with a stupid ass set of Bluetooth headphones that they need to keep charged. Plus why should they suddenly switch to Bluetooth amd get lower audio quality when their laptop still has a 3.5mm jack.

Hell I would say that the jack is more convenient than Bluetooth for headphones, since you don't have to worry about changing your headphones.

 

Also, products like the Square and Paypal readers, shutter buttons and selfie sticks, and 3.5mm mounted phone charms.

[Dackzy]

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

No, it was the most honest.

 Wrong, but honest.

Also, products like the Square and Paypal readers, shutter buttons and selfie sticks, and 3.5mm mounted phone charms.

It might have been honest, but still a BS reason to do it.

[flibberdipper]

"Major market trend towards wireless"

Unless I've been living under a rock, that doesn't really seem to be the case...

[Dabombinable]

3 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Exactly my point, and that kind of longevity is something to be treasured when we find it since it is so rare, not something to be thrown out like yesterdays garbage.  So often we have a good reason to change a port (it needs more pins, it should be reversible, etc.) and so for the sake of progress, we do, but if the entire world has already agreed on one (3.5mm) and it works perfectly and has for decades, and there is literally no reason to change it, why do so?

Molex. There since the dawn of the PC and still going strong.

[suicidalfranco]

2 hours ago, Dackzy said:

The jack ain't going anywhere any time soon. You can just look at the industry that is based upon it's design. Hell in the recent years we have seen more and more really high end gear based upon the jack connection. The high end IEM market only seem to expand. The market of high end headphones also only seem to expand. In the recent years we have seen headphones like the Focal elaer, clear, utopia and audio Technica ADX5000, plus a few hifiman and audeze models, which are all around 1k or up to 4k USD. 

 

We can also look at the source market, where we have seen schiit, soekris, hifiman, RME, Sony and many more making fairly big leaps in quality.

They all have TRS connectors, also know as the jack. It might be the 3.5 or it might be the 6.3 or both.

That was just as a whole.

 

If we look at the mobile market aka phones and laptops. We have seen phones like the Axon 7, V20 and V30 just to name some. These phones all have one thing in common, they are all focused on audio and from what I have seen then they have sold fairly well. They are great phones for the people who wants good audio on the go and don't want to invest in a DAP. 

But we also have the people that just doesn't want to carry around another stupid ass dongle, just so they can connect their phone to something else than a set of Bluetooth headphones or they just don't want to deal with a stupid ass set of Bluetooth headphones that they need to keep charged. Plus why should they suddenly switch to Bluetooth amd get lower audio quality when their laptop still has a 3.5mm jack.

Hell I would say that the jack is more convenient than Bluetooth for headphones, since you don't have to worry about changing your headphones.

 

To add to that Bluetooth sounds like utter crap, it is absolutely awful for music.

 

I know that I personally would never buy a phone without a 3.5mm jack and I know people that love apple, but they don't want to upgrade from their 6s because they still want to have a 3.5mm jack.

 

The reason Sony gave was probably the biggest BS reason I have heard in a while. TBH the phone looks like a Lumia phone and a 3.5mm looked just fine on one of those. Also wtf a phone is a tool, it isn't a piece of jewelery, but I guess Sony treats it like jewelery.

And the vinyl market has been booming like ever before, it's as if even kids who grew up with music only available in digital format can definitely tell there's a difference with what they're streaming on their phones and what's coming out of that ol' turn table (even if masters are now digital (god damn it!))

 

[TechyBen]

I'd want charging through my headphone connector, with passthrough on charging cables...

[AresKrieger]

Well in an ideal situation companies would emulate the good aspects of apple and ditch the rest, however they seem to always do the opposite but I don't use smartphones anyway so this trend affects me very little atm.

[Sauron]

17 hours ago, Enderman said:

Did you read what you quoted?

"In order to create the beautiful seamless design"

 

Maybe you don't understand, but this is not saying "we had no space".

It is saying "we don't want a large hole in the bottom of the phone"

It's saying "we removed a widely used feature because we can't make a good looking phone with it". Almost every other manufacturer still includes a headphone jack and nobody ever complained that it looked bad. I would argue there are phones with a jack that look a lot better than the xz2, and even if that's subjective, those phones have a useful feature that the xz2 is lacking.

 

If this is supposed to be jewelry then they'd better address a lot more than just a smooth bottom. If it's supposed to be a useful device on the other hand, stripping useful features for subjectively slightly better looks is a stupid idea.

[Sauron]

17 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

And the vinyl market has been booming like ever before, it's as if even kids who grew up with music only available in digital format can definitely tell there's a difference with what they're streaming on their phones and what's coming out of that ol' turn table (even if masters are now digital (god damn it!))

 

well... I would argue vinyls are making a bit of a comeback because they're vintage and cool to look at and not because of how they sound. Besides the average person doesn't have audio equipment that is remotely good enough to tell the difference between audio formats. The only significant difference between old records and what we have now is the tendency to boost the volume and lose fidelity for some reason, but I think new vinyls have that problem too.

[suicidalfranco]

6 minutes ago, Sauron said:

well... I would argue vinyls are making a bit of a comeback because they're vintage and cool to look at and not because of how they sound. Besides the average person doesn't have audio equipment that is remotely good enough to tell the difference between audio formats. The only significant difference between old records and what we have now is the tendency to boost the volume and lose fidelity for some reason, but I think new vinyls have that problem too.

sure, not everyone goes out of their way and gets the best turn table available, with the best diamond needle the market can offer, plug it to a top of the line preamp, get the best power amp available with tubes that costs as much as the phones they have in their pockets and finally get to be delighted by the sound coming out of the headphone/speakers/home Theater. 

 

The cheapest audio technica turn table will still make a huge difference

[Soonercoop]

9 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

And I don’t think you understand how little people in the smartphone market are of the Hi-Fi disposition. 

Oh, I understand it perfectly, but if there was ever a place those people are and will complain about it it's evidently here.

[Enderman]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

It's saying "we removed a widely used feature because we can't make a good looking phone with it". Almost every other manufacturer still includes a headphone jack and nobody ever complained that it looked bad. I would argue there are phones with a jack that look a lot better than the xz2, and even if that's subjective, those phones have a useful feature that the xz2 is lacking.

Um, in case you haven't noticed, a lot of manufacturers have removed the headphone jack.

 

They didn't "remove" a widely used feature, they made it optional.

You still have the option of using USB C headphones or a USB C to 3.5mm adapter.

They didn't remove the ability to listen to music from your phone.

 

Looks are subjective, clearly the engineer that designed the aesthetics of the phone found it unnecessary.

Which it is.

It is an unnecessary jack.

This is a fact, not subjective.

[Beef Boss]

Adapters to make wired headsets wireless are rather cheap, to me it's humorous to see how much some are against a port being taken away. Get a good pair of wireless headsets and just leave your phone somewhere in the room or house. You don't have to worry about a port wearing out, and look if the battery is wearing out on a GOOD headset then it's time for a new one. Complaining that the headset batteries wear out is like saying you won't get a smartphone because the battery will wear out some time. 

[dalekphalm]

18 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Thats what they said about every major port that has ever been made obsolete. 

Yeahhh. Except that Wireless doesn't make the 3.5mm obsolete. The 3.5mm can provide objectively better sounding audio, when paired with a high quality pair of headphones. A comparably priced pair of wireless headphones will not sound as good.

 

You're also increasing the cost of the headphones themselves by adding in:

1. Additional equipment (Wireless receiver), and

2. Redundant equipment (a DAC - since the phone already has one...)

 

Thus, (ignoring any bandwidth issues over Bluetooth that limit total sound quality), a pair of wireless headphones are more expensive to manufacture (and therefore, more expensive to buy) compared to a pair of wired headphones with identical quality drivers (speaker units, for those unfamiliar with the term).

 

There's simply no way around the added expense. Certainly, manufacturing efficiencies can reduce the added expense, but cannot eliminate it.

 

Wireless headphones are simply more convenient to listen to. That's pretty much the only advantage to them, whereas wired headphones (and a headphone jack) have multiple advantages, including higher potential sound quality, no charging necessary, no running out of battery, etc.

17 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

You never actually have to give that up. You have options. The most obvious option is to get wireless headphones. If you don't like that you can always get a splitter. 

Or, a phone with a headphone jack.

 

Look, I wouldn't even be that upset if phone manufacturers decided to simply ditch the 3.5mm jack in favour of a second data jack (USB-C for Android, Lightning for iOS). I would even put up with a stupid and unnecessary Lightning to 3.5mm adapter.

 

But removing the jack (both here, and with the iPhone 7/8/X) was a decision, not a requirement. They could easily have designed the phone to do everything it can do now, and have a 3.5mm jack. It would have, at best, been 1-2mm larger in one dimension. So small that side by side, most people wouldn't even notice which one was bigger.

17 hours ago, Enderman said:

Nobody said it was a "need", it was just a design decision.

Just like there is no "need" for the printer port to be removed from PCs, but it was anyway.

This is how you move people towards using a single cable for all their devices. It's called progress.

Woah slow down there.

 

This is a LOT different than the removal of the Parallel port.

1. USB coexisted with Parallel for like at least a decade.

2. USB Printers, as soon as USB was finalized, immediately started taking over the market. Once USB became standard in the mid-90's (literally every PC from Windows 95 up had at least some USB ports on it), almost no printer was manufactured with a Parallel Port.

3. The Parallel Port survived as a standard component well into the mid 2000's, with motherboards going into the Core 2 Duo era having it as a standard feature.

4. The Parallel Port is still used today, albeit in niche legacy roles, and usually as a PCIe add-on card.

 

Your example with the Parallel Port? That's how you properly replace an obsolete piece of technology. You put something out onto the market that is obviously superior. The market jumps on it. The old port is phased out naturally.

 

This is not what's happening with the 3.5mm jack. Phone OEM's like Apple are artificially trying to kill it, without a clear successor. You either go wireless, which has major drawbacks and compromises. You have Lightning, which is Apple only. Or you have USB-C, which is Android only (for now), and many OEM USB-C adapters are proprietary, despite that going against the very fundamental idea of USB (being an open standard).

10 hours ago, michaelocarroll007 said:

So its okay for apple to make an adapter that only works for apple phones. But Motorola does it and its wrong? 

 

IM all for every single phone having 1 standard (Including iphone) but giving a pass on one manuf and not the other is wrong.  Everysingle one should be USB C and be universal. 

 

Honestly the tiny extra bit i give to apple and removing the Jack  is the fact they sell Decent wireless option at a okay price Airpods. Not many other options at that form factor and pricepoint IDKY google thought hey lets make em with wires and Putting them in the case annoying. 

Here's the big difference:

1. It's not okay that Apple did it.

2. Even though it's not okay, at least the Lightning to 3.5mm adapter will work on every host device (meaning Phone, etc) that has a lightning port.

3. Motorola took an open Stanard, USB-C, and implemented a proprietary protocol so that their USB-C to 3.5mm adapter only works with Motorola phones - and not any of the hundreds of other Android phones that have the same USB-C port.

 

Can you see how that's different - and worse?

 

Both are bad, but the world isn't black and white. There are variations and different levels of severity.

42 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

sure, not everyone goes out of their way and gets the best turn table available, with the best diamond needle the market can offer, plug it to a top of the line preamp, get the best power amp available with tubes that costs as much as the phones they have in their pockets and finally get to be delighted by the sound coming out of the headphone/speakers/home Theater. 

 

The cheapest audio technica turn table will still make a huge difference

Sure, but inherently, Vinyl isn't "better" than a proper high quality digital file (such as CD WAVE/PCM, FLAC, ALAC, DVD-Audio, etc) - regardless of how the album itself was mastered (analog vs digital).

 

Vinyl will always be limited by it's physical limitations. Though many audiophiles and vinyl enthusiasts prefer the "coloured" sound that is vinyl - that sound is not superior on a technical level. At that point, it's personal preference.

 

I have absolutely no problem with Vinyl or collecting it - my fiancee is a huge collector. But no one should collect it because it's "better" sound. It might be "more enjoyable to you on a personal level" sound, but that's not "better" on an objective level.

[dalekphalm]

6 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Um, in case you haven't noticed, a lot of manufacturers have removed the headphone jack.

 

They didn't "remove" a widely used feature, they made it optional.

You still have the option of using USB C headphones or a USB C to 3.5mm adapter.

They didn't remove the ability to listen to music from your phone.

 

Looks are subjective, clearly the engineer that designed the aesthetics of the phone found it unnecessary.

Which it is.

It is an unnecessary jack.

This is a fact, not subjective.

By that logic, the USB-C port is also unnecessary.

 

With Wireless Charging, and the ability to sync over WIFI, the ability to plug a phone directly into a computer (or a wall outlet) is unnecessary.

 

That's a fact.

[Soonercoop]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

well... I would argue vinyls are making a bit of a comeback because they're vintage and cool to look at and not because of how they sound. Besides the average person doesn't have audio equipment that is remotely good enough to tell the difference between audio formats. The only significant difference between old records and what we have now is the tendency to boost the volume and lose fidelity for some reason, but I think new vinyls have that problem too.

Being one of these people I can tell you that for me it's actually just because you can buy music in bulk for cheap and if it's decent quality, rip a decent digital copy while I'm at it. Only in a few rare cases is the vinyl master substancially better, but in some cases it can be. Especially classic stuff. For instance, you can't get a decent master of any of the first few Black Sabbath albums on digital because some engineer mucked them up and severely limited the dynamic range somewhere along the way, but I can pick an 80s master up in a flea market for a buck or two.