Sony: We removed the headphone jack due to the XZ2's design

[Drak3]

Just now, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

This is why we can't have nice things

 

USB-C was supposed to be the dream come true. The dream of having a singular port type for everything. 

 

Of course, OEMs have to ruin it with their crappy proprietary interfacing standards... 

To me, USB-C is a nightmare waiting to happen. A single port either means everything costs more, in order to make the port do everything, or more confusion on what does what from consumers.

 

Honestly, Type C can burn in hell for all eternity for all I care. I now have to regularly clean out the USB port on my phones, there isn't a single USB device that can saturate USB speeds. Thunderbolt 3 is the only good thing I can think of that came out of it, and that's only good for hotswap RAID storage and eGPU, provided one doesn't go above a GTX 1080.

[D13H4RD]

2 hours ago, Enderman said:

I see a lot of people around here are close-minded and seem to disagree, that's ok, my grandparents also think that the TV remote causes cancer.

Man, I really hate to break it to ya.

 

But you should just carefully read some of the replies on here. Those people never said wireless will never evolve. 

 

They said that we're just not ready yet. Wireless headphones have barely moved in terms of advancements in technology that consumers can readily purchase as of right now and my WH-1000XM2s, despite sounding great for being wireless, still falls victim to wireless interference. 

 

They will improve, but I've never been the type of guy who makes a purchase based on future potential. I make my purchasing decisions based on what it can do now. I bought the 1000XM2 knowing that it doesn't have GA support and knowing that it likely won't and yet, it received it via OTA.

 

Being close-minded is sticking to your own opinion without considering other input from others who have a different viewpoint at all. I've been reasonably open-minded about this and I can definitely see why some people may not want the jack, but maybe get off that highchair and understand where others are coming from. Not everyone has $300+ to spend readily on a pair of high-end NC wireless headphones (and even $100 on a pair of half-decent wireless ones), and not everyone is so willing to be part of the #donglelyfe, especially with the USB-C clusterfuck on the Android side. I know BT receivers exist and for some people who aren't especially picky about audio quality, they're a good purchase, but for those who are picky, eh unless you get the SoundBlaster E3 from Creative.

 

I understand "progress", but you need to take a step back and understand just what is happening. Yeah, some people are the "No jack, no buy" type of guys, but listen to the others who make solid points about evolution and the current state of wireless. Nothing is all roses. As much as Apple, Sony and others would want you to believe that the wireless revolution is here, the reality is that it still isn't here just yet in terms of mass appeal. Wireless headphones would need to have better range, stronger reliability and a more affordable entry-price point for a decent pair in order to truly catch on. The Apple W chip sadly doesn't count since it is a proprietary piece of hardware limited to Apple devices and headphones Apple and Beats make.

[MegaTechPC]

I love how Samsung is basically giving the entire industry the middle finger and saying "Screw you guys, we are sticking with the dang headphone jack dammit!" instead of just blindly following whatever Apple does.  I've just never understood the argument that removing the jack is just so that people will develop and buy better wireless headphones because the inclusion of the jack does not in any way preclude you from using BT headphones, nor companies continuing to develop newer and better iterations of them. 

 

But then again maybe I'm just one of those old fogy types since I still include an optical drive in all of my builds...

[D13H4RD]

2 minutes ago, MegaTechPC said:

I love how Samsung is basically giving the entire industry the middle finger and saying "Screw you guys, we are sticking with the dang headphone jack dammit!" instead of just blindly following whatever Apple does.  I've just never understood the argument that removing the jack is just so that people will develop and buy better wireless headphones because the inclusion of the jack does not in any way preclude you from using BT headphones, nor companies continuing to develop newer and better iterations of them. 

 

But then again maybe I'm just one of those old fogy types since I still include an optical drive in all of my builds...

Well, Samsung may eventually wave goodbye to it.

 

I just hope that when they do, either USB-C isn't a complete clusterfuck anymore or wireless improves tremendously

[79wjd]

4 minutes ago, MegaTechPC said:

I've just never understood the argument that removing the jack is just so that people will develop and buy better wireless headphones because the inclusion of the jack does not in any way preclude you from using BT headphones,

It doesn't directly prevent the betterment of bluetooth headphones, and yet bluetooth headphones have come quite a long way in the last couple of years, as has USB-C. People don't like change, and companies don't like to develop for small markets. Force the market to grow and companies suddenly begin to give a shit.

[MegaTechPC]

I imagine eventually they will but in the near term they certainly appear to have drawn a line in the sand and have said, "This far, no further!"

[D13H4RD]

2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

It doesn't directly prevent the betterment of bluetooth headphones, and yet bluetooth headphones have come quite a long way in the last couple of years, as has USB-C. People don't like change, and companies don't like to develop for small markets. Force the market to grow and companies suddenly begin to give a shit.

Well, I don't really know....

 

Wireless headphones have improved but I'm not seeing any major breakthroughs just yet. And USB-C is still quite the mess when it comes to the multiple different interfacing standards.

[Arika]

If they go back on this decision due to backlash, they should change their name from Sony to Sorry

[D13H4RD]

Just now, Sierra Fox said:

If they go back on this decision due to backlash, they should change their name from Sony to Sorry

LOL.

 

I don't think they will though. 

[Enderman]

3 hours ago, Mooshi said:

The pro audio world disagrees. Not everyone is down for janky Bluetooth connections.

 

Edit: I'll be over here with my LG V30 with superior audio while still remaining thin AF haaaaa~

Pro audio world uses XLR and 1/4", those are not going anywhere.

[Enderman]

1 hour ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

But you should just carefully read some of the replies on here. Those people never said wireless will never evolve. 

 

Oh really?

 

Quote

Wireless will not surpass wired because physics doesn't permit it.

Quote

wireless will actually limit the potential quality of the drivers themselves at a certain point.

Quote

No, it won't. The pervasiveness of current wireless communication is what will forever keep wireless communication inferior to wired

 

[D13H4RD]

6 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Oh really?

Why not read some of the others? 

 

Hell, read some from me. 

 

I'm not against progress. I'm against meaningless progress or change made too early. 

 

Hell, I've already begun the wireless transition because I know cables won't be around forever in the mainstream. So don't say I am closed-minded just because I've already been in the wireless life and understand their limitations 

 

[Enderman]

3 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Why not read some of the others? 

 

Hell, read some from me 

 

I don't think you can include yourself in "those people"

Otherwise you should have used "we" or "us"

[D13H4RD]

I'm a little bored. 

 

So have a photo of a wireless pair of headphones using a cable. 

 

Because why not? The headphones have an included amp so assuming the phone's DAC is good enough, it should actually play back audio quite nicely if quality is a concern. Choice is wonderful. 

[mr moose]

16 hours ago, asus killer said:

for my small knowledge of it, music and video editing are big on Apple products. This ties to the 5k display that will go obsolete because you can't upgrade. Do Apple customers even care?

Video maybe, not so much audio, people with studios are sticking to older macs because upgrading 1000's $$$$ in studio hardware simply to have a new computer is not smart.

16 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Everyone has gotten mad at Apple for removing ports. The thing is everyone got over it and the industry changed for the better. 

 

 

No they didn't, we just moved to windows or hackintosh based systems.

4 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

The Pros can get Thunderbolt Audio interfaces and dedicated equipment then. Oh wait they already have that, so they don't care. 

Who did?  got some links to support this claim, because as someone in the field I don't know anyone who simply went and spent $2000 replacing a perfectly functioning interface just so they could buy a new mac.    Not too sure if you've ever read a single blog or article about professional audio work but I can tell right now nearly all surveys put windows in front of apple and the number of mac users is shrinking, back in 2013 apple had the lions share of the audio market, with apple logic second only to pro tools, now they score very low depending on which demographic you survey,  Usually less than 15%.  While Ableton takes out 29% consistently across the board.

[MrDynamicMan]

3 hours ago, Drak3 said:

 

Fieri?

O N E L A S T T R I P T O F L A V  O U R T O W N

[Sauron]

7 hours ago, Enderman said:

Um, in case you haven't noticed, a lot of manufacturers have removed the headphone jack.

 

They didn't "remove" a widely used feature, they made it optional.

You still have the option of using USB C headphones or a USB C to 3.5mm adapter.

They didn't remove the ability to listen to music from your phone.

Yes, you can use an adapter - and be unable to charge your device while listening to music. Much good design, wow. Just because a few manufacturers do it to copy the worst of Apple doesn't mean it's a good idea or that it ever was.

 

I never said you CAN'T listen to music, it's just a lot more clunky and needlessly uncomfortable.

7 hours ago, Enderman said:

Looks are subjective, clearly the engineer that designed the aesthetics of the phone found it unnecessary.

Which it is.

It is an unnecessary jack.

This is a fact, not subjective.

By that logic everything in a phone except the ability to make a call is factually unnecessary... why not remove the camera whle we're at it? Just plug in a webcam to the usb-c port...

[D13H4RD]

Remember when Apple actually used the headphone jack for charging and syncing on the Shuffle? Kinda funny tbh

We’ve derailed. Should we get back to discussing about the Sony?

[Mooshi]

4 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Snip

Thank you. There is no "close minded" view point, most of us making a fuss over lack of headphone jack isn't about the fear of the future, but more a facepalm of why are we ditching something with no replacement yet.

 

Pairing Bluetooth devices can be a pain and when it's connected, it still cuts out now and then. Then we have these oem specific adapters which only further illustrate the point of being pro removal is being anti consumer.

 

Wireless will take over the future, but not now when different manufacturers are trying hard to lock you into an ecosystem. No one should ever have their audio equipment tied to one brand or adapter. This is why headphone jacks have been around for so many years, companies are too greedy to create a real substitute that everyone agrees on.

 

Charging while listening to music and better audio is only the superficial reason to be pro headphone jack, the reason beneath the surfice is there's nothing putting itself as a replacement.

 

Edit: Just remembered a buddy got the Pixel 2 XL recently and he plugs a dac/aux adapter into the USB c port to get, surprise, better audio from the equipment he has no legitimate reason to toss out.

[D13H4RD]

16 minutes ago, Mooshi said:

Wireless will take over the future...

It definitely will, especially for the consumer side. Wired will still exist for enthusiasts and professionals, but it's generally safe to assume that the consumer end will eventually shift over to wireless.

 

I'm just concerned over this trend. We're seeing more and more jacks going away but also not a heap of development on improving wireless audio for all. We have Sony's LDAC codec being opened up to all Android phones running Oreo or later and....that's about it?

 

I want to see the core issue of interference and reliability being addressed. The power issue is already being addressed somewhat as we speak, with Sony's WH-CH700N headphones boasting up to 40 hours of battery but I would love to see new wireless tech that either cancels out interference or avoids it altogether. I've seen Logitech mice do this but they're also not on BT. I'm hoping someone out there does so in a manner that isn't proprietary.

 

I want to see wireless catching on. I just think companies are removing headphone jacks faster than development is going on. Yeah, the less jacks, the more resources companies will put into improving wireless. But uh, hawking back to the Logitech thing, they still sell wired mice and yet, developed the best wireless gaming mouse out there that rivals wired?

 

16 minutes ago, Mooshi said:

Edit: Just remembered a buddy got the Pixel 2 XL recently and he plugs a dac/aux adapter into the USB c port to get, surprise, better audio from the equipment he has no legitimate reason to toss out.

The Pixel 2 is one of the few jackless phones I would actually buy. Because at least Google doesn't fuck around with the USB-C protocol to use a proprietary interface on a universal connector. The dongle supplied with the P2 works on almost any USB-C device and I would assume good USB-C equipment works on the P2.

[Mooshi]

It was a tossup between the Pixel 2 and the LG V30, went with the LG since it's basically the sister phone to the Pixel 2 XL. Only downside is the OS updates take foreveeeerrrr...my retired Nexus6P is on 8.1 for months while my V30 JUST went to Oreo 8.0 less than a week ago.

[Canada EH]

hey if you want a jack, then dont buy a product without a jack

 

no big deal

 

thats life

 

relax and chill out

[Trixanity]

The day may come when USB-C actually works and is finally universal but it is not this day.

 

There may come a time when the 3.5mm jack can finally be replaced but it is not this day.

 

This day we fight.

 

ITT: people who think something should be replaced solely because it's old and/or analogue. Not because it's better. Embrace the future even if it isn't here yet. And some think it should be replaced solely because some fruit thought it'd be a good idea and so they could sell more awful audio products.

Yup. That's about it. 

 

Pushing for wireless now is like saying a photo needs more JPEG. And digital wired interfaces aren't universal so it creates new problems.

[D13H4RD]

1 hour ago, Canada EH said:

hey if you want a jack, then dont buy a product without a jack

 

no big deal

 

thats life

 

relax and chill out

Problem is that the choice is getting more and more limited if you choose to get a flagship with a dedicated headphone jack.

 

You're essentially limited to Samsung and LG in this regard and perhaps some obscure manufacturer and if you go a notch below, there's OnePlus.

 

Like I said before, there will be a time where very few of us will care and move on. Today isn't that day.

[Dackzy]

12 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

If you were listing to audio on a smartphone with headphones that cost more than $50 there might be a problem with you. If you really cared about audio you would not be using a dinky DAC and AMP inside a smartphone. Hell iPhones have 16-Bit DACs!

Why is there something wrong with people using headphones that cost over 50$ with their phones? I use IEMs that cost 1k retail with my phone, they still sound great and much better than any bluetooth headset or headphone, and they sound even better if I hooked them up to something like the RME ADI 2 DAC.

I can also go out and say that if you go out and buy a expensive laptop that thermal throttles (aka MacBooks) then there might be a problem with you. 

There is nothing wrong with people that enjoy audio and wants good or just decent audio on the go. 

Just like there is nothing wrong with the people who goes out and buys a MacBook.

 

So what if a DAC can do 16bit, hell it can do 32bit and sound like ass. It isn't about the quantity, it about the quality. You can go out and find a great DAC that only goes up to 24bit and then you can also go out and find cheap crap that can do 32bit. 

 

The day we can get high quality wireless headphones, is the day I will acknowledge them. Until then, they can all go into the trash, because that is what they sound like, even the ones that cost $300+. Bluetooth is absolutely awful for audio.