Sony: We removed the headphone jack due to the XZ2's design

[kokakolia]

On 2018-03-14 at 11:05 PM, Energycore said:

Sony thinking they can out-apple Apple

Next up, beautiful seamless computer cases without front IO.

Yeah, the difference is that you can find Apple dongles at any store that sells tech. Sony can’t say the same thing. 

 

EDIT: if Sony makes a Hi-Fi external DAC that plugs into the USB-C port and doesn’t take too much space it would be a killer feature for the “audiophiles” that would spend $1000 on a Hi-Fi audio player anyway. But then I look at the LG V30 and say “Nevermind”. Besides that, there are several Lightning DACs for iPhones already. So whatever Sony is trying to do, Apple did it already and better. You can easily find iPhone accessories but it’s a bigger can of worms with Android phones using proprietary USB-C ports for audio. This is a huge win for Apple as everyone else screwed up.

 

[Mooshi]

1 hour ago, kokakolia said:

Yeah, the difference is that you can find Apple dongles at any store that sells tech. Sony can’t say the same thing. 

 

EDIT: if Sony makes a Hi-Fi external DAC that plugs into the USB-C port and doesn’t take too much space it would be a killer feature for the “audiophiles” that would spend $1000 on a Hi-Fi audio player anyway. But then I look at the LG V30 and say “Nevermind”. Besides that, there are several Lightning DACs for iPhones already. So whatever Sony is trying to do, Apple did it already and better. You can easily find iPhone accessories but it’s a bigger can of worms with Android phones using proprietary USB-C ports for audio. This is a huge win for Apple as everyone else screwed up.

 

 I was one of those V30 people. Still high water proof rating and smaller dimensions than the iPhone 8 plus WITH a headphone jack + built in 32bit dac.

 

There is absolutely no way Apple users can even convince me the jack has to go for the sake of design, let alone Sony.

 

 

[Inversion]

I will say right off the bat that I really like having a headphone jack. I use mine a fair amount even though I have in ear Bluetooth headphones. The fact of the matter is that this causes problems. One of which is cost. While many are able to afford to buy a new flagship, not everyone can then afford to go out and buy a new pair of decent over ear Bluetooth headphones. I've found headphones last longer than phones personally and I have wired headphones I've had since my 1st phone. Good over ear headphones are expensive and if you want to use them with anything else then you need a pair with a 3.5mm jack anyway. Those come at a premium. Same goes for on ear ones that many use when travelling or studying. It's all well and good to say use a USB Type C pair or use a dongle but what happens when you want to listen and charge as well. Do you have to settle for 2003 charging speeds. My Samsung Galaxy A5 2016 has a headphone jack and a micro USB port. I can charge and listen at the same time at a good rate since fast charging works and the micro USB port is only responsible for charging. 

 

Companies that take out the headphone jack are saying this - We want a device that seems modern and looks "better" and we don't care about you people that use your phones in the real world for consuming media that aren't as rich as us.

 

I hate this mentality and it started with Apple. This works for Apple since people are used to the added cost of using Apple devices (the Apple tax) but Android has long offered more flexibility and I for one will not be considering a phone with no headphone jack any time soon. I'll stick to Samsung for now thanks.

[JoeCoke]

To get a actually decent set of BT headphones you'll need to pay a shit ton, and they'll still skip all the damn time, not to mention you get to worry about battery. Wireless just can't replace wired for me. And I own a 70$ set of over the ear BT headphones, even though they were like the best rated pair at that price, they don't sound good and they skip. You could buy an actually nice sounding pair of wired headphones for that price.

 

Since the S9 is like the only phone that still has the headphone jack, I'll have no choice but to get it if I have to switch from my S5 any time soon.

[Drak3]

I'd like to point out, Apple still sells the iP6s and the last gen MBP, explicitly to have options with those ports still available.  They don't stand behind their bullshit story of "progress."

[Inversion]

8 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I'd like to point out, Apple still sells the iP6s and the last gen MBP, explicitly to have options with those ports still available.  They don't stand behind their bullshit story of "progress."

So to keep using brand new expensive headphones, people have to buy phones from 2 years ago??? Seems like you're being punished by Apple

[kokakolia]

19 minutes ago, Inversion said:

I will say right off the bat that I really like having a headphone jack. I use mine a fair amount even though I have in ear Bluetooth headphones. The fact of the matter is that this causes problems. One of which is cost. While many are able to afford to buy a new flagship, not everyone can then afford to go out and buy a new pair of decent over ear Bluetooth headphones. I've found headphones last longer than phones personally and I have wired headphones I've had since my 1st phone. Good over ear headphones are expensive and if you want to use them with anything else then you need a pair with a 3.5mm jack anyway. Those come at a premium. Same goes for on ear ones that many use when travelling or studying. It's all well and good to say use a USB Type C pair or use a dongle but what happens when you want to listen and charge as well. Do you have to settle for 2003 charging speeds. My Samsung Galaxy A5 2016 has a headphone jack and a micro USB port. I can charge and listen at the same time at a good rate since fast charging works and the micro USB port is only responsible for charging. 

 

Companies that take out the headphone jack are saying this - We want a device that seems modern and looks "better" and we don't care about you people that use your phones in the real world for consuming media that aren't as rich as us.

 

I hate this mentality and it started with Apple. This works for Apple since people are used to the added cost of using Apple devices (the Apple tax) but Android has long offered more flexibility and I for one will not be considering a phone with no headphone jack any time soon. I'll stick to Samsung for now thanks.

It’s not an added cost though! Apple accessories are cheap and plentiful. Lightning cables are cheaper than USB-C cables. And you find them everywhere, even at gas stations. Most gas stations don’t even sell USB-C cables. Further, the 3.5mm to Lightning dongle is $10 or less from Apple or $3 for two from China. USB-C adapters and cables almost always cost more.

 

Also, iPhones are rather affordable if you buy used. The iPhone SE is still a fantastic phone and it costs $170 refurbished on Amazon. Even Chinese phones with comparable features cost more. And the iPhone 6S or 7 don’t cost much more used/refurbished. The Apple tax can be avoided if you’re smart.

[Inversion]

Just now, kokakolia said:

It’s not an added cost though! Apple accessories are cheap and plentiful. Lightning cables are cheaper than USB-C cables. And you find them everywhere, even at gas stations. Most gas stations don’t even sell USB-C cables. Further, the 3.5mm to Lightning dongle is $10 or less from Apple or $3 for two from China. USB-C adapters and cables almost always cost more.

Lighting cables may be cheaper than Type C but I have friends and family with both. Anyone with a lighting cable is on their 3rd or 4th in the last year whereas the Type C folks are on their first. Apple stuff. The Lightning connector is a bad connector that breaks all the time. Adding to cost in the long term and none of these solutions get around the charging while listening issue

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Inversion said:

So to keep using brand new expensive headphones, people have to buy phones from 2 years ago??? Seems like you're being punished by Apple

The user experience, going from a 6s to an 8 isn't going to change for 99% of the users, asides from the 8 dropping the 3.5mm jack.

It's not all that bad. But Apple is more willing to sell you a 6s than a 7 at this point.

[Inversion]

4 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

The user experience, going from a 6s to an 8 isn't going to change for 99% of the users, asides from the 8 dropping the 3.5mm jack.

It's not all that bad. But Apple is more willing to sell you a 6s than a 7 at this point.

There were other "upgrades" with the newer phones. And say someone wants an OLED screen. Can only get that on the iPhone X. And I'm sure reviewers and Apple are always going on about the improved performance. What about when Apple decides to stop supporting the iPhone 6s with new software updates but the 8 and X which people bought the same day get updates for another 2 years. It's asking people to compromise on features, cost, security and device longevity (due to apps constantly getting more demanding on CPU and therefore battery). I am not an Apple customer - I haven't bought an Apple product in 8 years but when I have friends that have only ever had iPhones saying they're going to Android next time because the Apple ecosystem isn't worth the money or the compromises, there's something wrong.

[D13H4RD]

Don’t forget the clusterfuck of different interfacing standards over the same USB-C connector, resulting in multiple proprietary interfacing standards.

 

The inability to charge while using wired headphones is an inconvenience, but this is worse 

[dalekphalm]

4 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I'd like to point out, Apple still sells the iP6s and the last gen MBP, explicitly to have options with those ports still available.  They don't stand behind their bullshit story of "progress."

In fact, I bought an iPhone 6s 128GB - and I bought it instead of the iPhone 7 (8 and X weren't out yet) specifically because I wanted the headphone jack.

 

I listen to my Sennheiser HD 6xx's on the iPhone 6s all the time while at home.

 

I used to use Bluetooth in my car with the 6s as well. But I switched over to using the old MDI Cable (MDI to 30-pin, then a 30-pin to Lightning adapter) because the sound quality was better with a direct connection to my car's sound system over Bluetooth.

 

I still use Bluetooth in the car for hands free calling, and occasionally when listening to a portable speaker when sound quality is a secondary concern, but the headphone jack is something I use a lot.

 

My 6s is only about a year old, so I have no plans to replace it anytime soon, but when the time does come, it will be a really difficult decision on what to replace it with. I'm otherwise extremely happy with iOS, and the hardware of the 6s, but no headphone jack might be a deal breaker.

[kokakolia]

6 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

The user experience, going from a 6s to an 8 isn't going to change for 99% of the users, asides from the 8 dropping the 3.5mm jack.

It's not all that bad. But Apple is more willing to sell you a 6s than a 7 at this point.

And the SE as well! It’s the best smartphone under $200 unless you buy Chinese. 

[kokakolia]

4 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Don’t forget the clusterfuck of different interfacing standards over the same USB-C connector, resulting in multiple proprietary interfacing standards.

 

The inability to charge while using wired headphones is an inconvenience, but this is worse 

We get it! This is why I think Apple wins. Lightning cables and dongles are everywhere and they’re cheap cheap cheap.

[D13H4RD]

1 minute ago, kokakolia said:

We get it! This is why I think Apple wins. Lightning cables and dongles are everywhere and they’re cheap cheap cheap.

And I have to keep repeating it because few people understand why this is a problem 

 

Ugh...

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, kokakolia said:

And the SE as well! It’s the best smartphone under $200 unless you buy Chinese. 

For what capacity, the base 16GB model? That might be alright for a basic user that installs no apps and doesn't download any/much music.

 

My music collection alone is bigger than 16GB. And I wouldn't call my music collection "massive" by today's standards.

 

I checked Amazon.ca, and I can find 16GB SE's refurb for $250. That's okay I guess. 64GB refurbs are $400. $400 is a lot of money.

 

Not to say that the SE isn't a bad value - it's actually a great phone. My fiancee, her sister, and her mother all got the 32GB SE, brand new, for around $360 - granted, this is through a carrier, but the phone is unlocked (mandatory unlocking is now law in Canada), and there's no contract, so you can jump carriers and bring it anywhere you want.

[Mooshi]

Just gonna say, no one has yet to give a serious justification to ditch the jack. Easy to lose dongles are cheap to replace is the best so far haha. The less you have to carry around, the better. No way to spin that.

[dalekphalm]

Just now, Mooshi said:

Just gonna say, no one has yet to give a serious justification to ditch the jack. Easy to lose dongles are cheap to replace is the best so far haha. The less you have to carry around, the better. No way to spin that.

And they might be cheap to replace, but Apple still makes money on every Lightning to 3.5mm adapter - and yes while this thread is about Sony, let's be honest. Sony only did it because Apple popularized it.

[Mooshi]

6 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

And they might be cheap to replace, but Apple still makes money on every Lightning to 3.5mm adapter - and yes while this thread is about Sony, let's be honest. Sony only did it because Apple popularized it.

I work will cell phones in my day job and I rarely come across a Sony phone. They're about as common as Blackberry is these days. The move to copy Apple from a brand less talked about than LG wasn't the brightest one. Glad Samsung is still keeping the port alive as far as popular mainstream goes.

[XenosTech]

1 hour ago, Mooshi said:

 I was one of those V30 people. Still high water proof rating and smaller dimensions than the iPhone 8 plus WITH a headphone jack + built in 32bit dac.

 

There is absolutely no way Apple users can even convince me the jack has to go for the sake of design, let alone Sony.

-snip-

Not to mention it's a thinner and lighter phone with a bigger screen and battery capacity. (Still rocking my lg v10)

[JoeCoke]

After reading this thread, I have to say, it's amazing to me that anyone can think that wireless is a replacement for wired. Wired is NOT a replacement, just an alternative with it's own pros and cons. Sure, you don't have to deal with a cable, but then you have to worry about significantly higher cost, charging a battery, interference, skipping, latency and lower sound quality. So.. Have a phone that does both to fit different situations. Y'know, because a phone with the jack can also do wireless! My BT headphones can also go wired, and I find myself using both solutions pretty much equally on my Galaxy S5. Having options? Ha, crazy talk! Quit being okay with less features, it only hurts yourself. "I don't use wired" and "wired is old" are the worst defenses I've ever heard. Just, stop.

 

This post can also be applied to Ethernet, since that came up a few times in this thread. Ethernet is far superior to Wifi, no argument, but Wifi is way more convenient. Wifi is also more important than Buetooth, as Wifi allows you to be all over the house with only one access point, while with Bluetooth, your phone is just gonna be in your pocket anyway, so using Wifi as an analogy to make arguments for Bluetooth is just plain weak. Stop.

 

 

[D13H4RD]

1 hour ago, 2Buck said:

After reading this thread, I have to say, it's amazing to me that anyone can think that wireless is a replacement for wired. Wired is NOT a replacement, just an alternative with it's own pros and cons. Sure, you don't have to deal with a cable, but then you have to worry about significantly higher cost, charging a battery, interference, skipping, latency and lower sound quality. So.. Have a phone that does both to fit different situations. Y'know, because a phone with the jack can also do wireless! My BT headphones can also go wired, and I find myself using both solutions pretty much equally on my Galaxy S5. Having options? Ha, crazy talk! Quit being okay with less features, it only hurts yourself. "I don't use wired" and "wired is old" are the worst defenses I've ever heard. Just, stop.

TBF, I feel that when it is ready, wireless will eventually become the norm for consumer audio solutions. My take is when tech is done that deals with the interference, latency and skipping issue and when said tech trickles down the line and affects pretty much all consumer gear.

 

The enthusiast and professional market will stay wired, for obvious reasons.

[Beef Boss]

1 hour ago, 2Buck said:

After reading this thread, I have to say, it's amazing to me that anyone can think that wireless is a replacement for wired. Wired is NOT a replacement, just an alternative with it's own pros and cons. Sure, you don't have to deal with a cable, but then you have to worry about significantly higher cost, charging a battery, interference, skipping, latency and lower sound quality. So.. Have a phone that does both to fit different situations. Y'know, because a phone with the jack can also do wireless! My BT headphones can also go wired, and I find myself using both solutions pretty much equally on my Galaxy S5. Having options? Ha, crazy talk! Quit being okay with less features, it only hurts yourself. "I don't use wired" and "wired is old" are the worst defenses I've ever heard. Just, stop.

 

This post can also be applied to Ethernet, since that came up a few times in this thread. Ethernet is far superior to Wifi, no argument, but Wifi is way more convenient. Wifi is also more important than Buetooth, as Wifi allows you to be all over the house with only one access point, while with Bluetooth, your phone is just gonna be in your pocket anyway, so using Wifi as an analogy to make arguments for Bluetooth is just plain weak. Stop.

 

 

It's really not a weak argument, there's plenty of times where I leave my phone charging on my wireless pad, or somewhere and I can just walk around my house doing whatever and still listen to music. Or if I want to use Bluetooth to connect to my TV and sound bar to play music, I'd rather do that than have it wired and leave my phone where I'm not currently at. 

[Trixanity]

9 minutes ago, BadluckBrian said:

It's really not a weak argument, there's plenty of times where I leave my phone charging on my wireless pad, or somewhere and I can just walk around my house doing whatever and still listen to music. Or if I want to use Bluetooth to connect to my TV and sound bar to play music, I'd rather do that than have it wired and leave my phone where I'm not currently at. 

Oh that old argument. You make it an either or scenario. That's not how this works. They've coexisted for years until pineapple thought it was a neat idea to restrict things and put up another fence around the garden.

[D13H4RD]

16 minutes ago, BadluckBrian said:

It's really not a weak argument, there's plenty of times where I leave my phone charging on my wireless pad, or somewhere and I can just walk around my house doing whatever and still listen to music. Or if I want to use Bluetooth to connect to my TV and sound bar to play music, I'd rather do that than have it wired and leave my phone where I'm not currently at. 

Well, that's what I tend to use my 1000XM2s for, but my phone's usually with me *shrug*