Over 3 Million Graphics Card Sold To Crypto Miners in 2017

[dizmo]

6 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

If that is true that'd be reaaaally sneaky: Not adjusting MSRP but adjusting pricing seems a quite dishonest move hiding the fact that they cant/wont increase production from the consumers.

Huh? That makes no sense, how is that sneaky? If their costs are going up, then of course pricing will go up. He did say some pricing, something in the ballpark of a $30 increase. A pretty sizeable amount. It has nothing to do with increasing production or not.

[DocSwag]

1 hour ago, Captain Chaos said:

 

 

 

Miners are just as much victims as gamers are.  The real a-holes are those people who are buying new phones.

So it's my fault for buying a new phone when my old one wasn't cutting it and I wanted a new one?!?

 

The biggest problem for GPUs right now is the lack of supply of the dies themselves. Because miners are buying all of them up. The phone situation is simply creating a drop in DRAM supply and in turn higher DRAM prices. GPUs aren't being sold out because of lack of memory supply but AFAIK it's because the fabs can't keep up.

[Suika]

2 minutes ago, dizmo said:

"Efforts". Face it, they're not that heart broken about the profits, anything they're saying is just PR. After all, it's not like there's 4 or 5 other companies to compete with. Where else do gamers have to turn when they want a card? Nvidia. (Or AMD, but since they're doing the same thing, it's not like they'd choose AMD over them).

Realistically, what can they do? Attempt to disable mining workloads at a driver level? Or would you rather them raise MSRP but offer 'gaming bundles' (that worked out well before)?

 

Board partners are the ones not keeping up with demand, and have admitted they have no doubt NVIDIA could supply more GPUs as needed. They can only 'encourage' retailers to do anything, but it's not stopping them from selling GPUs by the pallet to a single customer. This mining boom hurt their shares and board partners aren't increasing production, they aren't gaining much from this.

[dizmo]

1 minute ago, Suika said:

Realistically, what can they do? Attempt to disable mining workloads at a driver level? Or would you rather them raise MSRP but offer 'gaming bundles' (that worked out well before)?

 

Board partners are the ones not keeping up with demand, and have admitted they have no doubt NVIDIA could supply more GPUs as needed. They can only 'encourage' retailers to do anything, but it's not stopping them from selling GPUs by the pallet to a single customer. This mining boom hurt their shares and board partners aren't increasing production, they aren't gaining much from this.

I didn't say they should do anything. I simply said whatever they've said about gamers is PR.

Of course they're not. They don't want to get burned like they did last time. You can't blame them for that.

Nvidia has most definitely profited from it. They posted record profits yet again, and a substantial amount of that was from May 2017 on; right around the mining boom. That's no coincidence.

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, dizmo said:

They posted record profits yet again, and a substantial amount of that was from May 2017 on; right around the mining boom. That's no coincidence.

Which may have been spurred on by data centres using GTX hardware.   I can't find any information about it in the JPR article.  We know it could make up as much as 50% of Nvidia's profit though.  

 

 

[Zodiark1593]

2 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

Simple maths : Let's assume that the average miner card has about 8GB of memory.  Given 3 million cards bought by miners, that's 24 million GB of RAM taken up by miners.  Actually it'll probably be less because of the amount of 3GB 1060s etc, but it's hard to get a proper estimate.

The iPhone X has 3GB of RAM and estimates show that there are around 20 million of those.  That alone is 60 million GB, or 2.5 times as much as the miners' cards.  And that's just Apple, we haven't mentioned the recent high-end Samsung phones yet. 

Many Android phones come with at least 4 GB. Some come with much more.

 

There's a saying about the Dark Side, or something of that sort, but I'm a rare non-fan of Star Wars.

[Misanthrope]

3 hours ago, dizmo said:

Huh? That makes no sense, how is that sneaky? If their costs are going up, then of course pricing will go up. He did say some pricing, something in the ballpark of a $30 increase. A pretty sizeable amount. It has nothing to do with increasing production or not.

I'm not against them upping the prices of the cards but against them not officially announce it so by increasing their official MSRP. Basically we would know 'Ok even if the demand wasn't surpassing the supply right now the base price of these cards is now at least X amount' simply because the price of it's components went up.

 

That's more than fair.

 

But if they continue to have an MSRP that's like 380 for a 1070 even though they're now selling them at a higher price, possibly even at 380 as their base price, it means that it would be effectively impossible for any distributor or store to sell the card at MSRP regardless of the demand.

 

It is basically Nvidia and/or AMD increasing their prices without letting their consumers know the cards can't cost the advertised MSRP prices anymore. Those prices need to be updated as their own costs to manufacture increase for whatever reason.

[sof006]

6 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

I really wish I saved up an extra $100 for a 1080

The sad fact is you shouldn't have had to.

[Jurrunio]

53 minutes ago, sof006 said:

The sad fact is you shouldn't have had to.

Half half on that. I came from an RX 470, so I should have made a greater leap.

[asus killer]

i don't think phones are a problem, because they are planned years in advance, there's always a roadmap, those plans are discussed between manufacturers of those phones and manufacturers of the memory chips, there are purchase orders, price negociations, etc... There is time to plan accordingly. 

The problem is mining, is volatile (at year's end prices were reasonable for example), is unexpected, unpredictable. No one will plan for something like this.

And if this unplanned 3 million cards didn't went to miners there were cards for every gamer, prices would be reasonable.

 

to understand the problem see the graph

 

 

3M is a lot for a 40M market.

 

edit: I just don't get were did the production capacity goes year after year. I don't mean to say they should be able to ship 97M as in 2007 because of memory shortage, but still it's a incredible difference between 2007 and 2015, it should accommodate 3M easily.

And the premium that miners and gamers pay for each card certainly could make them more competitive when facing phone makers while buying memory chips. If a video card manufacturer for a 1080ti as more 700$ for example they certainly should be able to get all the memory they wanted. Apple or samsung can not spare 700$ for each phone to match that offer. For me something is wrong.

[Nicnac]

they probably don't know where to put all their money. Would be sweet if especially AMD would reinvest a bunch of those profits to give us a kick-ass next gen card that kicks 1080ti butt. Probably not gonna happen though

[porina]

7 hours ago, dizmo said:

Their whole push with the RX480/580 was affordable 4k gaming.

I don't recall 4k specifically being part of the message, at least not around 480 launch. The message I recall was good enough gaming (not ultra everything) at a good price, since they couldn't compete against even the then nvidia high end. I do recall they were pitching it as the cheap way to get a VR ready system.

[leadeater]

7 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

If that is true that'd be reaaaally sneaky: Not adjusting MSRP but adjusting pricing seems a quite dishonest move hiding the fact that they cant/wont increase production from the consumers.

No what's happened is the cost of parts to AIB partners has increased but the MRSP hasn't so margins on sales to distributors has gone down, while distributors have been increasing prices on their end.

 

Nvidia, AMD and AIB's are not winning on this at all, other than selling more units meaning more revenue and profit but they could be making more if they charged more to distributors and AIBs etc.

 

Edit:

MSRP is only a suggestion as far as distributors are concerned and Nvidia, AMD and AIBs can't force them to sell at it so realistically right now the MSRP is meaningless and changing it would have no effect on consumer prices at all.

Edited February 27, 2018 by leadeater

[Tellos]

I feel hoenstly however I kidna now hope Intel does make a GPU and it is even decent!. A third group might at least shake shit up. Also I think hoenstly the fact that the big 3 RAm producers have dragged their feet on makign more memory until it got to this point is a sign they ought to be punished. I'd argue for a good 20% of their income for 5 years and told maybe they should not do this again in the future. soudns harsh but to be price fixing shoudl be a devstating prospect to companiesl ike this. if samsung was told "sorry you will be paying alot of moeny to the government now for afew years that actually hamrs you because you need to learn never to do this again." I also woudl say if caught again should go up each time. until it either imposes a change or bankrupts the company.

[Misanthrope]

4 hours ago, leadeater said:

No what's happened is the cost of parts to AIB partners has increased but the MRSP hasn't so margins on sales to distributors has gone down, while distributors have been increasing prices on their end.

 

Nvidia, AMD and AIB's are not winning on this at all, other than selling more units meaning more revenue and profit but they could be making more if they charged more to distributors and AIBs etc.

 

Edit:

MSRP is only a suggestion as far as distributors are concerned and Nvidia, AMD and AIBs can't force them to sell at it so realistically right now the MSRP is meaningless and changing it would have no effect on consumer prices at all.

I would argue that it's meaningless precisely because AMD and Nvidia's unwillingness to update it to reflect this increased costs to manufacture from their AIB partners, effectively lying by omission to the public about the actual cost of their products.

[Septimus]

13 hours ago, silentprototipe said:

RIP 3 Million gamers  

 

13 hours ago, SC2Mitch said:

lol 3 million people fucked over, thanks

Imagine how many cards are going to flood the used market over the next year and a half.

[Donut417]

13 minutes ago, Septimus said:

 

Imagine how many cards are going to flood the used market over the next year and a half.

Cards used for mining have a lower life span. The wise gamer wouldnt buy one of those unless its dirt cheap. Also, with how frustrated people are now, whos to say many of those 3M gamers dont go to console or choose to give up gaming all together? Right now a console is looking good, considering price. Even if cards become available after that, whos to say many of these people will come back to PC gaming? Because if you invested in a new console and a few games, you already invested the money you would have used for a new card anyway. 

[NumLock21]

I say blame the enthusiast for buying the ssds. Iphone only has how much, 256gb tops, while enthusiast have 512gb and all the way up to 1TB or more. If they weren't so greedy by getting HDDs instead of SSDs, then us gamers will still have a chance to buy a video card. 

[jagdtigger]

3 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

I say blame the enthusiast for buying the ssds. Iphone only has how much, 256gb tops, while enthusiast have 512gb and all the way up to 1TB or more. If they weren't so greedy by getting HDDs instead of SSDs, then us gamers will still have a chance to buy a video card. 

Yeah, lets compare a business decision and physical limitation to this idiocy with mining....

#idiot....

Edited February 27, 2018 by jagdtigger

[Space Reptile]

15 hours ago, SC2Mitch said:

lol 3 million people fucked over, thanks

15 hours ago, silentprototipe said:

RIP 3 Million gamers  

first of all , not to be a dick , but they bought it first and you didnt ( i dont like the situation either , but customer is customer ) 
second : now just wait for the bubble to go proper POP and bathe in Rx 480s 

[Murasaki]

[SpaceGhostC2C]

14 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

I have a Nokia 6 which works just fine. Sure maybe you can't survive if you have to order food by app or use uber.

I have  an R9 280 which works just fine.

You can definitely survive without a Titan GTX1070 GPU.

 

14 hours ago, Suika said:

NVIDIA has made efforts to keep cards within the hands of gamers

Such as?

 

7 hours ago, porina said:

I don't recall 4k specifically being part of the message, at least not around 480 launch.

(...)

. I do recall they were pitching it as the cheap way to get a VR ready system.

Yes, it was "VR for the masses".

[Shreyas1]

I swear tho, it's getting better. Some time ago I saw a GTX 1060 3gb going for only 250 USD

 

 For people looking for a new card, I would advise you to look at brick-and-mortar stores as I saw some 1080s at best buy for 530 USD a while back

 

[bimmerman]

1 hour ago, Shreyas1 said:

I swear tho, it's getting better. Some time ago I saw a GTX 1060 3gb going for only 250 USD

 

 For people looking for a new card, I would advise you to look at brick-and-mortar stores as I saw some 1080s at best buy for 530 USD a while back

 

I was there last weekend buying speakers.

 

RX580 -- $850 (seriously)

1080 FE -- $590 (best deal from this list)

1070ti -- $650

1050ti - $350

1070 - $550

1060 - $450

 

prices have gone pants-on-head stupid. Do not buy a GPU right now.

[dizmo]

13 hours ago, mr moose said:

Which may have been spurred on by data centres using GTX hardware.   I can't find any information about it in the JPR article.  We know it could make up as much as 50% of Nvidia's profit though. 

You have absolutely no way of knowing that and really, even if that was the case, it's still spurred on by mining so my point stands.

I was looking at their earnings reports, not an article.

12 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

I'm not against them upping the prices of the cards but against them not officially announce it so by increasing their official MSRP. Basically we would know 'Ok even if the demand wasn't surpassing the supply right now the base price of these cards is now at least X amount' simply because the price of it's components went up.

 

That's more than fair.

 

But if they continue to have an MSRP that's like 380 for a 1070 even though they're now selling them at a higher price, possibly even at 380 as their base price, it means that it would be effectively impossible for any distributor or store to sell the card at MSRP regardless of the demand.

 

It is basically Nvidia and/or AMD increasing their prices without letting their consumers know the cards can't cost the advertised MSRP prices anymore. Those prices need to be updated as their own costs to manufacture increase for whatever reason.

They have absolutely no obligation to inform the public that their BOM is increasing.

They're also not responsible for the massive price increases we see in cards. Even with that, Nvidia sells the core; the board partners set their own prices, so it's them you should be mad at, not Nvidia.