iOS 17 update could open your iPhone to third-party app stores

[TheawesomeMCB]

Summary

In order to comply with EU laws according to an boomerang report. Apple is working on the ability to sideload in the future.

 

Quotes

Quote

According to Mark Gurman in the Bloomberg "Power On" newsletter on Sunday, Apple will introduce iOS 17 alongside iPadOS 17, macOS 14, and a major watchOS 10 update.
Of the changes that will be on the way, Gurman says Apple will be making "more noise beyond WWDC itself" by working to overhaul iOS to enable sideloading.
(Appleinsider article)

 

Apple plans to roll out sideloading support to comply with the new European regulations by next year, according to Bloomberg. But given how vehemently Apple has fought against opening up its walled garden, it's likely to continue to resist the requirement until the last possible moment. So it may still be a while yet before you're sideloading any apps on your iPhone. 
(tomsguide article)

 

My thoughts

This is a very good thing I feel. It's hard to say if it will be locked down to the EU only as it would be hard to say how apple would lock that down but only time will tell. I'm very excited as it would enable developers be able to have less restrictions. Like the webkit rule for example. I'm sick of webkit being the only browser engine allowed on IOS and it has caused me problems. And even with the Cons of sideloading, having less restrictions and being able to sideload is a good thing. If you are scared of viruses then that doesn't stop you from getting an anti virus like android has.
Remember what Linus said on the hot takes video:

"This is the thing that Apple users who argue about this seem to not really understand. The existence of alternate app stores does NOT in fact mean that you would not be able to use the official one."

 

Sources

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/ios-17-update-could-open-your-iphone-to-third-party-app-stores
https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/04/16/apple-will-lay-sideloading-groundwork-in-ios-17

[Crunchy Dragon]

[TrigrH]

Lets how apple manages to intentionally half ass this feature.

 

I'm expecting some stupid your warranty is now void message or an annoying popup every time you launch a sideloaded app.

[TempestCatto]

I feel like Apple will find a way to make it very difficult to "enable" side loading. It'll be some weird toggle buried deep in the bowels of some dumb settings thing. Either way I really hope it comes to all iOS users as I'd love to side load older versions of apps, especially if I go dumb and decide to stick it out with a new iPhone (still on the fence about that one. Need me headphone jack).

[SorryBella]

58 minutes ago, TrigrH said:

 

I'm expecting some stupid your warranty is now void message or an annoying popup every time you launch a sideloaded app.

That would actually be a feature obstruction. What id expect would be them repeatedly say that your Apple devices will be vulnerable everytime you wanna install an app just like Google.

 

But of course this is a corpo that fucking revived MFI programme because of Type C transition, we knew that their malicious compliance can be outright law breaking.

[StDragon]

1 hour ago, TrigrH said:

Lets how apple manages to intentionally half ass this feature.

 

I'm expecting some stupid your warranty is now void message or an annoying popup every time you launch a sideloaded app.

If Apple ever had a wild red-headed stepchild, this would be it.

[maartendc]

It is probably good that it is an option but, honestly, I am not really going to use this.

 

As an iPhone and former Android user, as someone who has jailbroken their iPhone in the past... these days I just need it to do what it does out of the box. I think a lot of Apple users see their "walled garden" approach as a feature, not a bug. Users prone to tinkering with their devices probably buy something else and put a custom ROM on it.

 

Honestly, the only reason I had ever jailbroken my phone was to install pirated apps... And while there were some other cool custom things I could do with the jailbroken iOS, that was really the main reason. Just as all those people who claim they need emulation and custom firmware on their Playstation, Xbox and Nintendo consoles for "preservation purposes" and to "play ROMS that they dumped themselves, because they definitely own the cartridges": let's be honest, 95% of people use these tools for piracy.

 

I guess the good thing about 3rd party app stores is potentially opening up the possibility of a kind of "Epic games store" on iOS that charges developers less than 30% of their revenue... that would be a positive development.

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, maartendc said:

Honestly, the only reason I had ever jailbroken my phone was to install pirated apps...

That is the entire true reason people JB a phone or game console. People go "But muh homebrew!"  when none of them can ever point to a single homebrew app that someone would actually want.

 

A lot of reason to JB consoles, games in particular, is to nerf the premium currency in P2W games and apps. These games often just use some text file or other easily edited thing to unlock the premium currency features. So just tell the game you have 10 billion smurfberries and problem solved. You don't need to pay Apple or the greedy creepy game dev for it.

 

At least with a smartphone or tablet, you can legitimately side-load software you have written. The trouble come in when you can access the data for software you haven't written. On Android devices this is often trivial, you can just dump the game/app to removable storage, tamper with it, and then transfer the tampered files back.

 

Malware is a serious concern if you enable side-loading and leave that side door unlocked. You're better off having the sometimes 5 or more nag screens about it when trying to install something from the internet (the browser is usually a source of two of them, and the AV product is another source of two of them, and then the OS asks one final time.) As long as you know what you're doing. That requirement of requiring the user to confirm they want to install something or access a hardware feature acts as an early warning that you've downloaded something you shouldn't have.

[suicidalfranco]

11 hours ago, TrigrH said:

I'm expecting some stupid your warranty is now void message

won't fly in the EU. Maybe in the US if they use the same build  

[Doobeedoo]

Cool to see they're slowly adding features Android had 15y ago.

[BabaGanuche]

1 minute ago, suicidalfranco said:

Maybe in the US if they use the same build  

That will not fly in the US either.  User modifications to a device cannot void the warranty unless the company can prove that they caused the damage. Apple would have to prove that the app damaged the device.

 

https://consumer.ftc.gov/consumer-alerts/2022/07/ftc-says-companies-warranty-restrictions-were-illegal

[suicidalfranco]

4 minutes ago, BabaGanuche said:

That will not fly in the US either.  User modifications to a device cannot void the warranty unless the company can prove that they caused the damage. Apple would have to prove that the app damaged the device.

 

https://consumer.ftc.gov/consumer-alerts/2022/07/ftc-says-companies-warranty-restrictions-were-illegal

sounds like the same as for the EU

 

EUR-Lex - 31999L0044 - EN - EUR-Lex (europa.eu)

 

Quote

So, we finally come to the question of rooting, flashing and changing the software. Unless the seller can prove that modifying the software, rooting your device or flashing it with some other OS or firmware was the cause for the defect, you are still covered for defects during those 2 years. A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware/OS and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect. There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software — e.g. overriding the speaker volume above the safe level could blow the speaker.

Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty. You have to understand that in EU we have a “statutory warranty”, which is compulsory that the seller must offer by law (Directive 1999/44/CE, §7.1) and a “voluntary warranty” which the seller or manufacturer can, but does not need to, offer as an additional service to the consumer. Usually the “voluntary warranty” covers a longer period of time or additional accidents not covered by law6. If though the seller, the manufacturer or anyone else offers a “voluntary warranty”, he is bound to it as well!

So, even if, by any chance your “voluntary warranty” got voided, by European law, you should still have the 2 year “compulsory warranty” as it is described in the Directive and which is the topic of this article.

In case the seller refuses your right to repair or replace the device, you can sue him in a civil litigation and can report the incident to the national authority. In many European countries such action does not even require hiring a lawyer and is most of the time ensured by consumers associations.

The warranty under this Directive is only applicable inside the European Union and only if you bought the device as a consumer.

as per the FSFE

[DANK_AS_gay]

I already can side-load apps, and the process isn't hard. Look up AltStore. And Dolphin iOS. If they keep that around, and don't officially support side-loading, I'm fine with it. I bought an iPhone because I wanted it to "just work", Not because I wanted a device to incessantly tinker with. That's why I sold my soul to Apple. So really, I don't want this if it means less attention on the bugs that are already in the platform, which are starting to grow in number and severity.

[StDragon]

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

won't fly in the EU. Maybe in the US if they use the same build  

No, but what will happen is the mobile device will fail security attestation. Duo comes to mind. Though is primarily only a concern for BYOD in a corporate setting, otherwise they might provide you a company phone in which it would be against policy to root anyways.

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

14 hours ago, TheawesomeMCB said:

Summary

In order to comply with EU laws according to an boomerang report. Apple is working on the ability to sideload in the future.

 

Quotes

 

My thoughts

This is a very good thing I feel. It's hard to say if it will be locked down to the EU only as it would be hard to say how apple would lock that down but only time will tell. I'm very excited as it would enable developers be able to have less restrictions. Like the webkit rule for example. I'm sick of webkit being the only browser engine allowed on IOS and it has caused me problems. And even with the Cons of sideloading, having less restrictions and being able to sideload is a good thing. If you are scared of viruses then that doesn't stop you from getting an anti virus like android has.
Remember what Linus said on the hot takes video:

"This is the thing that Apple users who argue about this seem to not really understand. The existence of alternate app stores does NOT in fact mean that you would not be able to use the official one."

 

Sources

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/ios-17-update-could-open-your-iphone-to-third-party-app-stores
https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/04/16/apple-will-lay-sideloading-groundwork-in-ios-17

I am excited for this. Too bad I can't install the first beta in June like I always do. I refuse to pay $99 for a dev account

[AnonymousGuy]

The only thing this leads to is 12 year olds bricking their phones because they followed the "6 steps to free vbucks" thing and sideloaded malware.

 

No one wants a second app store because the actual App Store does everything....cause "it just works" is the main reason to have an iPhone.

 

Or worse: it becomes like gaming on PC where you need 5 "app stores" (Steam, Origin, UPlay, Epic Games, Blizzard) because every fucking corporation and their dog has decided they want to make their own thing.

[SansVarnic]

@My_Computer_Is_Trash , @StDragon

Let me stop you, Political discussion is not allowed. If you wish to continue, please take it somewhere else or in a PM. You are derailing the topic.

 

-= Topic Cleaned =-

[Helpful Tech Witch]

21 hours ago, TrigrH said:

 

I'm expecting some stupid your warranty is now void message

Android essentially has this message anyways

[Vishera]

On 4/18/2023 at 3:01 AM, TempestCatto said:

I feel like Apple will find a way to make it very difficult to "enable" side loading. It'll be some weird toggle buried deep in the bowels of some dumb settings thing. Either way I really hope it comes to all iOS users as I'd love to side load older versions of apps, especially if I go dumb and decide to stick it out with a new iPhone (still on the fence about that one. Need me headphone jack).

That's pretty much the case with macOS.

23 hours ago, Kisai said:

On 4/18/2023 at 11:19 AM, maartendc said:

Honestly, the only reason I had ever jailbroken my phone was to install pirated apps...

That is the entire true reason people JB a phone or game console. People go "But muh homebrew!"  when none of them can ever point to a single homebrew app that someone would actually want.

False,

Instead of having to switch disks all the time you can just dump them into neat ISO files and when the console dies you can use them in emulators.

You can actually backup your save files -  all of them, without restrictions (some game devs lock down the option to backup save files of their game on non-jailbroken consoles)

You can gain access to the encryption key of the console's hard drive - So in case the console dies you will still be able to access your data.

 

As for homebrew i can control the fan curve of my PS3 with WebMan and control the console through a browser, i can resign save files with Apollo, i can emulate other consoles with RetroArch and i can play movies with Movian.

[maartendc]

39 minutes ago, Vishera said:

That's pretty much the case with macOS.

False,

Instead of having to switch disks all the time you can just dump them into neat ISO files and when the console dies you can use them in emulators.

You can actually backup your save files -  all of them, without restrictions (some game devs lock down the option to backup save files of their game on non-jailbroken consoles)

You can gain access to the encryption key of the console's hard drive - So in case the console dies you will still be able to access your data.

 

As for homebrew i can control the fan curve of my PS3 with WebMan and control the console through a browser, i can resign save files with Apollo, i can emulate other consoles with RetroArch and i can play movies with Movian.

I don't deny there are useful homebrew tools and hacks.

 

I am just saying that the #1 reason 95% of people jailbreak or mod their consoles to play pirated games. You might be part of that other 5%.

[Cyberspirit]

18 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

The only thing this leads to is 12 year olds bricking their phones because they followed the "6 steps to free vbucks" thing and sideloaded malware.

 

No one wants a second app store because the actual App Store does everything....cause "it just works" is the main reason to have an iPhone.

 

Or worse: it becomes like gaming on PC where you need 5 "app stores" (Steam, Origin, UPlay, Epic Games, Blizzard) because every fucking corporation and their dog has decided they want to make their own thing.

Android allows side loading and multiple app stores and yet you don't see people with 5 different app stores. Most people just use Google play and sideload that one or two niche app they might need.

 

I'd guess it's going to be the same for apple as well.

[maartendc]

22 hours ago, Doobeedoo said:

Cool to see they're slowly adding features Android had 15y ago.

LOL. The reason Apple forces everything through the App store is obviously not that it is just "a feature they didn't have yet". They want to be able to take that 30% revenue cut on anything anyone purchases on iOS. By having 3rd party stores, it opens the door for them missing out on that revenue.

 

Furthermore, I will posit that 99% of all Android users only install apps through the Google Play Store. So it doesn't really matter too much either way.  I've owned several Android phones. I consider myself a tech savvy user, but even I didn't ever see the need to go outside of Google Play store. And my mother, grandmother etc. most certainly wouldn't.

 

The only thing I would see as useful is if this ruling allows developers to sidestep Apple for in-app purchases and subscriptions. That is where the real money is.

[Doobeedoo]

1 hour ago, maartendc said:

LOL. The reason Apple forces everything through the App store is obviously not that it is just "a feature they didn't have yet". They want to be able to take that 30% revenue cut on anything anyone purchases on iOS. By having 3rd party stores, it opens the door for them missing out on that revenue.

 

Furthermore, I will posit that 99% of all Android users only install apps through the Google Play Store. So it doesn't really matter too much either way.  I've owned several Android phones. I consider myself a tech savvy user, but even I didn't ever see the need to go outside of Google Play store. And my mother, grandmother etc. most certainly wouldn't.

 

The only thing I would see as useful is if this ruling allows developers to sidestep Apple for in-app purchases and subscriptions. That is where the real money is.

I'm aware of that, still their reason whatever it is means nothing to end user if they are not allowed to do some simple things. Being blocked by OS on so many levels is a joke. 

Obviously it's good people stand out for this regardless if it seems useful for minority. In the end it brings back functionality that more can start to use that didn't even knew the benefits.

Or like not being able to do general mass storage transfer in simple way without itunes which is restricting too or some other app or always some of their only way crap. So things I could do on a feature phone without a fuss. 

Buying a €1500 device and not being able to do the simplest of things and customization or even have options, is beyond a meme at this point.

[mr moose]

"no one wants a 3rd party app store" lol, yet the push is so great there are governments forcing it with law. 

[Zodiark1593]

20 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

The only thing this leads to is 12 year olds bricking their phones because they followed the "6 steps to free vbucks" thing and sideloaded malware.

 

No one wants a second app store because the actual App Store does everything....cause "it just works" is the main reason to have an iPhone.

 

Or worse: it becomes like gaming on PC where you need 5 "app stores" (Steam, Origin, UPlay, Epic Games, Blizzard) because every fucking corporation and their dog has decided they want to make their own thing.

Owing to Apple’s heavy 30% take, I feel multiple stores are the preferable solution. 
 

I’m personally pretty eager for getting Retroarch on my iPhone. The CPU is bloody fast, and should make mincemeat of the more accurate SW-based emulation cores. Couple of Bluetooth controllers, and an HDMI adapter, it would be easy to set up a Crash Team Racing split screen session in an office or friend’s place, with very little extra equipment needed. My iPhone should even have enough GPU horses to run some of the better CRT shaders.