You don't get a warrantee because Linus might die at an inconvenient time

[Dazza477]

https://www.lttstore.com/pages/terms-and-conditions

 

"We do not warrant that the quality of any products, services, information, or other material purchased or obtained by you will meet your expectations, or that any errors in the Service will be corrected."

 

"The service and all products and services delivered to you through the service are (except as expressly stated by us) provided 'as is' and 'as available' for your use, without any representation, warranties or conditions of any kind, either express or implied, including all implied warranties or conditions of merchantability, merchantable quality, fitness for a particular purpose, durability, title, and non-infringement."

 

How can you trust a company that won't give you any legal protection, but hides behind their own legal disclaimers that allow them to guarantee you nothing. 

 

Apparently laws are okay for companies use to protect themselves, but actively choose not to give those same protections to consumers. 

[LIGISTX]

29 minutes ago, Dazza477 said:

How can you trust a company that won't give you any legal protection, but hides behind their own legal disclaimers that allow them to guarantee you nothing. 

I admit, I don’t buy a lot of cloths… but some quick searching, I don’t see much in the way of warranties on any apparel. So I’m not sure LMG’s policy historically has been much different then what is standard on the segments they have been selling within (clothing….). I have had LMG cover the cost of both the goods and shipping charges for defective apparel, which is why I personally have been satisfied with my purchases (most have not had issues, the 1 item I have that was defective LMG covered the full price no questions asked). That is why I would trust them, because so far as far as reviews have shown, they stand behind their products. Plenty of multinational corporations WITH warranties don’t even stand behind their products and will purposely try and not honor warranties, because again, what are you going to do about it anyways?

 

LMG should have a warranty, but by all accounts thus far they have done right by customers which is ultimately more important anyways. 

[DeltaBruggemann]

Looks like there might be a proper warranty policy for Backpack Soon^TM. (According to Linus on Twitter)

How long and what is covered in the warranty still hasn't been disclosed as of yet.

I'd recommend reading through the threads from Nick and Linus in regards to warranties as by the sounds of it they have been discussing it internally for quite a while.

 

I'm not for or against warranties from LTT at the end of the day it is a merch store and isn't their main business so I can understand not wanting the admin and legal overhead for creating and maintaining warranties on all their products. This does change if they eventually make Creator Warehouse into a service where other creators can make their own merch store. If I was a creator starting my store with their products then I'd want formalised warranties on the products that are representing my brand. 

[Roswell]

10 minutes ago, DeltaBruggemann said:

I'm not for or against warranties from LTT

I can’t fathom a valid reason why you would be anything but in favor of a warranty on a $250 product.

[Imbadatnames]

3 hours ago, LIGISTX said:

Those people still paid money for the items… and a good group of them seem to have a lot of experience with many bags. 
 

Again, if the price isn’t right for you, don’t buy it. There is nothing wrong with waiting for thousands of long term reviews before you make a purchase, but there is also nothing wrong with not waiting. Just because it doesn’t align with your mentality doesn’t mean it may not for someone else. I sent the video to a buddy who knows of LMG, but certainly isn’t a fanboy; if anything he gives linus shit for pretending to be an expert in things which he isn’t. But, my buddy watches the video, saw the attention to detail and everything they thought of…. And ordered one before the video was over. It fit his needs well, and 250 bucks is trivial money for quality goods.

 

It seems like a lot of people are hung up on the price. If 250 bucks is not trivial, this likely is not the correct item to purchase, even if it had a warranty, and even if it was a trusted backpack manufacturer. If you are the person who searches for quality products and want one that correctly meets your requirements and this product meets them, it’s a no brainer - exactly why my buddy bought one.

 

I suppose we shall see how this does compared to my peak design backpack, but just based on the video, I’m sure it will be up to the same standard. But, if you don’t believe that, then vote with your wallet and don’t buy it. If at some point a warranty is provided or enough reviews come in to satisfy your doubts, then maybe reconsider if the bag does align with your needs. There isn’t much else I can say about it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. 

People pay hundreds for a white shirts with supreme ironed onto them and think it’s money well spent. 

[LIGISTX]

11 minutes ago, Imbadatnames said:

People pay hundreds for a white shirts with supreme ironed onto them and think it’s money well spent. 

I mean, who are you or I to say it isn’t? I would agree with you and say that isn’t worth the money, but that isn’t for us to say. Not our money, not our choice.

 

Are Ferraris a bad thing to spend money on? Rolex? A house? A steak dinner instead of an equally filling but much cheaper chicken salad? 
 

Where is the line drawn on what is good value FOR SOMEONE ELSE. The backpack at least provides a lot or function, and looks to be very well thought out. It’s certainly much more worth your money then a Supreme shirt.

 

But, back to the Rolex example. You don’t buy a Rolex if that purchase is a monetary hardship for you, you buy one if the 15 grand is relatively meaningless and if you lost it or broke it, oh well, thus is life. You probably shouldn’t buy a backpack if the cost is not a trivial amount of money - you also shouldn’t buy a supreme shirt if the cost is not a trivial amount of money. Unfortunately, rampant consumerism has a lot of peoples concept of worth really broken. 

[dogwitch]

40 minutes ago, LIGISTX said:

I mean, who are you or I to say it isn’t? I would agree with you and say that isn’t worth the money, but that isn’t for us to say. Not our money, not our choice.

 

Are Ferraris a bad thing to spend money on? Rolex? A house? A steak dinner instead of an equally filling but much cheaper chicken salad? 
 

Where is the line drawn on what is good value FOR SOMEONE ELSE. The backpack at least provides a lot or function, and looks to be very well thought out. It’s certainly much more worth your money then a Supreme shirt.

 

But, back to the Rolex example. You don’t buy a Rolex if that purchase is a monetary hardship for you, you buy one if the 15 grand is relatively meaningless and if you lost it or broke it, oh well, thus is life. You probably shouldn’t buy a backpack if the cost is not a trivial amount of money - you also shouldn’t buy a supreme shirt if the cost is not a trivial amount of money. Unfortunately, rampant consumerism has a lot of peoples concept of worth really broken. 

sadly this wont get through to some people.

[Imbadatnames]

48 minutes ago, LIGISTX said:

I mean, who are you or I to say it isn’t? I would agree with you and say that isn’t worth the money, but that isn’t for us to say. Not our money, not our choice.

 

Are Ferraris a bad thing to spend money on? Rolex? A house? A steak dinner instead of an equally filling but much cheaper chicken salad? 
 

Where is the line drawn on what is good value FOR SOMEONE ELSE. The backpack at least provides a lot or function, and looks to be very well thought out. It’s certainly much more worth your money then a Supreme shirt.

 

But, back to the Rolex example. You don’t buy a Rolex if that purchase is a monetary hardship for you, you buy one if the 15 grand is relatively meaningless and if you lost it or broke it, oh well, thus is life. You probably shouldn’t buy a backpack if the cost is not a trivial amount of money - you also shouldn’t buy a supreme shirt if the cost is not a trivial amount of money. Unfortunately, rampant consumerism has a lot of peoples concept of worth really broken. 

You’re still allowed to critique the products and the business. Especially when they’re being as hypocritical as LTT is. 
 

A bag and a screwdriver are tools though, they should be up to the standard of the competition at a given price.
 

TBH I wouldn’t buy a Rolex but a lot of people buy mechanical watches for the craftsmanship and dependability. I use a mech watch when I don’t know how long I’ll be out because once it’s on my wrist it won’t die. 

[Imbadatnames]

3 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

I think people are hung up on the price because of the lack of any warranty, there are lots of backpacks in the $250 price range which offer a warranty from a reputable brand, although if you trust Linus enough and the "trust me bro" promise then I guess those people wouldn't have an issue buying an LTT backpack. Most people spending that much on branded merch are probably fans of the channel anyway. Although I'd like to see how the backpack compares to other brands, it would really determine if the backpack is worth being $250 or not.

How is it not up to the standards of other models, what is lacking with it?

The only thing I find weird with the LTT backpack is the water bottle holder is inside the backpack, I'd rather have the bottle holder on the outside of the bag, and I wouldn't trust putting a laptop in the backpack as a water bottle could leak.

It’s made out of bog standard materials you’d find on a £20 bag. If you look at say camelbak for example they have the material listed, it’s certified and rated. “72Kg” isn’t that much weight for canvas to hold and that’s the only thing close to a material validation, again a £20 backpack can do that. 

[dogwitch]

11 minutes ago, Imbadatnames said:

You’re still allowed to critique the products and the business. Especially when they’re being as hypocritical as LTT is. 
 

A bag and a screwdriver are tools though, they should be up to the standard of the competition at a given price.
 

TBH I wouldn’t buy a Rolex but a lot of people buy mechanical watches for the craftsmanship and dependability. I use a mech watch when I don’t know how long I’ll be out because once it’s on my wrist it won’t die. 

on critique. Which is fine. . but people think its 100% ok to spam product feedback post. on said product page. the latter is not ok.

[Blademaster91]

19 minutes ago, Imbadatnames said:

It’s made out of bog standard materials you’d find on a £20 bag. If you look at say camelbak for example they have the material listed, it’s certified and rated. “72Kg” isn’t that much weight for canvas to hold and that’s the only thing close to a material validation, again a £20 backpack can do that. 

I think LTT should at least mention what the backpack is made of, as its a $250 product, a lot of other bags have what materials are used, though I wouldn't assume its made from the same material as a cheap bag without seeing a review comparison with other similarly priced bags. I also recall there being mentions of the bag having water resistance, i'm not sure if some cheap bag also has that.

[Roswell]

1 hour ago, LIGISTX said:

Are Ferraris a bad thing to spend money on?

Comes with a warranty.

1 hour ago, LIGISTX said:

Rolex?

Comes with a warranty.

 

1 hour ago, LIGISTX said:

A house?

Comes with actual laws that allow you to retrieve your money if the seller misrepresents the condition.

 

1 hour ago, LIGISTX said:

A steak dinner instead of an equally filling but much cheaper chicken salad?

Almost always comes with a money back guarantee. Super duper standard practice in the restaurant industry.

 

...I don't think you're making the point that you think you're making.

[Thaldor]

2 hours ago, LIGISTX said:

Plenty of multinational corporations WITH warranties don’t even stand behind their products and will purposely try and not honor warranties, because again, what are you going to do about it anyways?

That's just business. Just like every and any insurance company will firstly ask itself the same old question: "Why should we pay?" and the second question is "Is there a way we don't need to pay?". It's not really companies fault that they want proof that their product was faulty and it wasn't just that you used their scarf as a towline.

 

Apparel products hardly ever need warranties since what kind of warranty you can give to a T-shirt? 6 months? 3 months if worn every single day? LTTstore has had almost since the beginning also other stuff, like the water bottle (*takes a sip*) which should have warranty but probably isn't that important. But when you get above certain levels people start to ask for the warranties for reasons, either they enter the part where competition takes great pride for their warranties and have excellent warranty policies and known brands who have name to loose. But I would say before this LTTstore doesn't really had had products that people would be that much asking for warranties. Also that it's a merch store so this starts to probably be the first times LTTstore dips it's toes beyond merch store and they get more non-fans as potential customers.

 

The big problem without is just that you as a customer do not have anything black on white. Pretty much all you can trust is that:
A) Linus doesn't talk BS (again, he isn't your friend/buddy/bro)
B) Linus remains as the sole boss of the LMG (anyone else steps in and we may have new policies)
C) Linus keeps his iron grip of things (see above)

D) Nothing happens that would force Linus to change his opinion/determination (1000nd customer who's backpack broke oddly and is demanding repair/refund might change his determination to let customer service just "deal with it" as they see fit and change of policies if the backpack turns into a moneysink)

 

And with something like $250 backpack or $70 screwdriver we ain't talking about the imminent future of few moths, 2 years is probably minimum for the backpack, hopefully they exceed that. For example for "expensive" backpack warranty I could give Finn-Savotta which gives 5 years warranty for the materials and workmanship just so that the backpacks will see every weather they will face and if those have mistakes, they will be quite clear when they decide to show up (they are made for a different purpose with different features and different aim). But for the sake of comparison company making backpacks for serious trekking and "professional" outdoor activities gives their gear that is expected to be in the worst possible weathers 5 years of warranty, that seems like pretty damn high level of confidence compared to a tech backpack without written  and clear warranty.

 

And just because Linus likes to say that he wants to underpromise and overdeliver. It doesn't mean you put the bar to the ground and jump 2 meters high. There's companies that go way over their warranties just because they want to go. One good example is Valve with their hardware, like the pretty common story if your Index controllers break and you contact their support is that you have new pair incoming and you can send the broken ones in the new package free of charge and even outside of the 2 year warranty. That's putting the bar to 1.5 meters and then jumping 2 meters. Promising nothing and delivering everything is nice and all but it has the flaw that you get to deliver more than promised even if you barely deliver anything, it's also more often better to promise something and then go over it because the customer is already expecting something and you take it a bit further.

[Bitter]

I think a simple tiered time limited warranty is a good compromise.

1yr 'bumper to bumper'

3 year straps and buckles

5 years stitching

Simple as that. If you've got it for 8 months and a zipper eats shit and dies and won't stay closed it's covered. If you've had it 14 months and a metal buckle somehow breaks or a strap (shoulder or adjusting) rips part way through, you're covered. If you've had it 49 months and the stitching on a compartment breaks open or a shoulder strap stitching comes apart, you're covered.

You can't sell a premium product without a premium warranty

[vetali]

Like I said in the screwdriver thread, just give some sort of warranty period. Even if you EVGA it and go by goodwill, having a warranty period still matters a lot to people. "Just trust me bro" don't sit well as a consumer, and I am someone that has never had an issue with my LTTstore purchases or products. Even the beanie that was "recalled" is still holding up.

[Imbadatnames]

5 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

I think LTT should at least mention what the backpack is made of, as its a $250 product, a lot of other bags have what materials are used, though I wouldn't assume its made from the same material as a cheap bag without seeing a review comparison with other similarly priced bags. I also recall there being mentions of the bag having water resistance, i'm not sure if some cheap bag also has that.

For 250 I would expect a certified material such as Cordura. 
 

A lot of bags have water “resistance” I can take a cheap bag out in the rain for 5 minutes and the inside isn’t wet. 

[Imbadatnames]

5 hours ago, dogwitch said:

on critique. Which is fine. . but people think its 100% ok to spam product feedback post. on said product page. the latter is not ok.

Dunno, he’s going back on several things he’s previously said and is extremely anti consumer after all his posturing about consumer rights. It’s very hypocritical and similar to review bombing on steam. If it’s for a point I don’t see the issue. It’s not like there isn’t a reason for it 

[dogwitch]

2 minutes ago, Imbadatnames said:

Dunno, he’s going back on several things he’s previously said and is extremely anti consumer after all his posturing about consumer rights. It’s very hypocritical and similar to review bombing on steam. If it’s for a point I don’t see the issue. It’s not like there isn’t a reason for it 

then it makes feedback pointless now. kind sad now its the hip to complain about a product (95% never used or owned the product).

 

but i know for a dam fact. you hate that crap to begin with. but cant let that ego... go  to mob rule!!! mob rule!!!!

 

btw if you want to total get ride of feedback. what your doing or support. is how you kill it.

 

 

[LAwLz]

Linus' responses to all this just proves to me what a massive cunt he is.

Makes outrageous and anti-consumer decisions.

Calls everyone who disagrees haters and says that people should just trust him, despite constantly telling people that businesses are not their friends that should not be trusted.

Says that "real fans" will buy it anyway.

Says that this will blow over and then 6 months later he will do something else that people will quickly forget about.

 

 

He is not remorseful and he does not seem to understand why people are upset. That is to me the biggest issue with the entire thing.

Remember, if he gives you a warranty then it's not because he thinks it's the right thing to do. He is reductively doing it to stop what he sees as "angry haters" from damaging his company's bottom line.

 

Spoiler

 

[Imbadatnames]

7 minutes ago, dogwitch said:

then it makes feedback pointless now. kind sad now its the hip to complain about a product (95% never used or owned the product).

 

but i know for a dam fact. you hate that crap to begin with. but cant let that ego... go  to mob rule!!! mob rule!!!!

 

btw if you want to total get ride of feedback. what your doing or support. is how you kill it.

 

 

But a low rating also informs people about something wrong with the product. I would expect the vast majority of people would assume that a bag costing that much would have a warranty without looking into it because literally every other bag in the price bracket has one.

 

It’s a shitty business practice and people should be made aware. He complains about apple being anti consumer all the time but guess what, they have a warranty on all of their products. Even if it’s not as long as it should be it’s still a warranty. 

[dogwitch]

6 minutes ago, Imbadatnames said:

But a low rating also informs people about something wrong with the product. I would expect the vast majority of people would assume that a bag costing that much would have a warranty without looking into it because literally every other bag in the price bracket has one.

 

It’s a shitty business practice and people should be made aware. He complains about apple being anti consumer all the time but guess what, they have a warranty on all of their products. Even if it’s not as long as it should be it’s still a warranty. 

i report said type of feedback  post on Amazon. for abuse of feedback. you straight up are not denying on how you want to ruin feedback options.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Review_bomb might learn something.

 

your not helping anyone with your twisted views

[Imbadatnames]

1 minute ago, dogwitch said:

i report said type of feedback  post on Amazon. for abuse of feedback. you straight up are not denying on how you want to ruin feedback options.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Review_bomb might learn something.

 

your not helping anyone with your twisted views

Wikipedia is not a valid source 

 

You’re missing the point 

[dogwitch]

17 minutes ago, Imbadatnames said:

Wikipedia is not a valid source 

 

You’re missing the point 

oh am not.  you straight up have avoided the meanings of what your doing or supporting.

i even gave you the meaning using said page. am done here.

[hishnash]

I think this also somewhat overlaps with the topic on why not physical distribution centre in the EU.. If LTT had a EU subsidiary they would find it very hard to not offer at leas the legal minimum protection.

Or god forbid he had a centre down here in NZ were the law basically says reasonable for the product category (someone got apple to give them a upgrade from the first gen Apple Watch due to it no longer getting os updates based on that law). I have used it to have my walking shoes replaced after 1 and 1/2 years of daily usage since one expects shoos to last a readable amount of time and no shop want stop go to court and the rules are based on the category not the individual product. LTT in NZ would likly be expected to provide a replacement or repair for bags for 10years after purchase if not more based on the laws here.  

No idea what CA consumer protection law is but I would be surprised if they are not required to at least provide 6 months.. but maybe the proximity to the US means there is 0 consumer protection? 

Of course legaly being base being based in CA does not mean LTT is immune from EU or NZ law, but being based there worst case EU could ban LTT's imports if LTT refused to comply. 

[Imbadatnames]

On 8/9/2022 at 1:47 AM, dogwitch said:

oh am not.  you straight up have avoided the meanings of what your doing or supporting.

i even gave you the meaning using said page. am done here.

You listed a Wikipedia article. I could edit that page and put a photo of Rick Astley in place of the text. It’s not a valid source. 
 

It’s a peaceful way to protest that causes no direct damage to LTT just makes people aware of the issues, what do you want  people to do? DDoS the website or start bricking his car, home and office? 

 

On 8/9/2022 at 4:42 AM, hishnash said:

I think this also somewhat overlaps with the topic on why not physical distribution centre in the EU.. If LTT had a EU subsidiary they would find it very hard to not offer at leas the legal minimum protection.

Or god forbid he had a centre down here in NZ were the law basically says reasonable for the product category (someone got apple to give them a upgrade from the first gen Apple Watch due to it no longer getting os updates based on that law). I have used it to have my walking shoes replaced after 1 and 1/2 years of daily usage since one expects shoos to last a readable amount of time and no shop want stop go to court and the rules are based on the category not the individual product. LTT in NZ would likly be expected to provide a replacement or repair for bags for 10years after purchase if not more based on the laws here.  

No idea what CA consumer protection law is but I would be surprised if they are not required to at least provide 6 months.. but maybe the proximity to the US means there is 0 consumer protection? 

Of course legaly being base being based in CA does not mean LTT is immune from EU or NZ law, but being based there worst case EU could ban LTT's imports if LTT refused to comply. 

The UK has something similar. It has to last a “reasonable amount of time” which takes into account brand reputation, price point etc.