You don't get a warrantee because Linus might die at an inconvenient time

[clayb91]

11 minutes ago, LIGISTX said:

This doesn’t have anything to do with right to repair. It has to do with LMG being new to this market, and not really having a great grasp on the need for warranty. LMG is not going to attempt to make it so you can’t modify your backpack once your purchase it, or try and make sure they are the only ones who can repair it. This is a commodity good, that anyone with a sewing machine could theoretically fix if something was to go wrong, not a high tech piece of consumer electronics that you couldn’t possibly fix on your own with household tools. 
 

That does not make the lack of warranty “fine”, but to compare it to an iPhone is a bit off base. Let’s see how they change course as a result of this backlash. That will be more telling about their pro or anti consumer mentality then anything. Let’s see if they do the right thing, and if you were on the fence about buying one because of this, just wait and vote with your wallet. If they do the right thing and provide warranty, support them and buy it. If they don’t, don’t. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Honestly, I'm in wave 1 and not planning to cancel. But if I get it and I don't like it, or if it is flawed, I will definitely be contacting support. It would be really nice to know ahead of time what they consider a big enough flaw to warrant replacement or refund. Right now that is not published anywhere and that is unacceptable, especially for a $250 product.

 

I hope that they publish something. I hope that they're more transparent in their support policies and how they back up their products. I take issue with how he has handled the situation, especially when he would call out other companies for less, no matter their size.

[LIGISTX]

10 minutes ago, clayb91 said:

Honestly, I'm in wave 1 and not planning to cancel. But if I get it and I don't like it, or if it is flawed, I will definitely be contacting support. It would be really nice to know ahead of time what they consider a big enough flaw to warrant replacement or refund. Right now that is not published anywhere and that is unacceptable, especially for a $250 product.

 

I hope that they publish something. I hope that they're more transparent in their support policies and how they back up their products. I take issue with how he has handled the situation, especially when he would call out other companies for less, no matter their size.

Agreed with all points. So far I draw on my own experience with LMG/creator wearhouse support and it has been positive, but I agree that increased transparency would benefit everyone. 

[Thaldor]

49 minutes ago, clayb91 said:

Honestly, I'm in wave 1 and not planning to cancel. But if I get it and I don't like it, or if it is flawed, I will definitely be contacting support. It would be really nice to know ahead of time what they consider a big enough flaw to warrant replacement or refund. Right now that is not published anywhere and that is unacceptable, especially for a $250 product.

 

I hope that they publish something. I hope that they're more transparent in their support policies and how they back up their products. I take issue with how he has handled the situation, especially when he would call out other companies for less, no matter their size.

Pure returns are different case and LTTstore has stated their return policies well. On that front they seem to be probably at the same level as any North-American online store, 30-day return window and shipping is on you. Actually just remembered how funny it actually is to live in EU where there is mandatory 14-day return window on non-custom products bought online with complete refund including shipping and at least the sites I often visit have 30-day return window with diversity do they refund the shipping or not, you need to contact the store before to get the shipping labels/directions but otherwise it's pretty much no questions asked. It gets even better within Finland where it seems that pretty much normal is either fill in a paper or at least write a letter about wanting to return the product, bring it to post office or whatever delivery company store used and say it's customer return and they will just slap a sticker on the packet and that's it.

 

Why I want the warranty to be stated is that, it's the minimum bar. It's a company publicly promising that the product in right use will last at least "this" much and if there's any problem, don't hesitate to contact because most likely if you didn't misuse the product, it's a manufacturing error and we will figure it out for you. Figuring out who is at fault and how big the fault is then question of customer service and policies. Anything over that bar will be the overdelivery and it doesn't matter if it's unwritten company policy because it's always nice for the customer. Like this one music store I tend to visit for smaller buys even if it's more expensive than ordering from web, just because you talk a bit with the clerk they will round down the sum to some a bit nicer number, they clearly have headroom in the sticker prices and they do that rounding down to everyone who even a bit talk more than just "hi" and "thanks" and "bye" but it gives a nice feeling when you have already agreed to pay the sticker price and they take a bit off from that.

 

But no warranty policy is just anti-consumerism because then we just have the word of one guy, even if he is the CEO of the company, he is still just one guy. That some companies don't even remotely honor their warranty promises isn't something to point at and say "See! It doesn't matter and if we were going to be evil we would be evil either way!", that's like going to the high jump after the last athlete dropped the bar and celebrate how the bar doesn't matter and jump over it even if it wasn't set back up and expect everyone be amazed how you cleared the imaginary bar.

What I would have wanted Linus to comment was to take the good examples of companies that do extremely well with their warranties and say that's where LTTstore tries to be while actually (as I imagine they have done) doing way better. Not take an example of the most shittiest crap and say that LTTstore even without official warranty does better than them. Like LTTstore doesn't need to be Snap-On or any other special case that goes pole vaulting instead of high jumping but comparing LTTsrore to OCZ... [Joke] Why not go lower and take wish.com or some Amazon/Ebay scammer as the example? Should we also compare the backpack and the screwdriver to the "dollar store" equals? [/Joke _{just to make it clear}]

[kumicota]

53 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

then we just have the word of one guy, even if he is the CEO of the company

I just remembered now but a reason that a lot of companies does warranties is to protect themselves, Linus by ranting on twitter and saying that you can trust him, that LTT will give lifetime support and more can be classified as a informal contract, which in law can be considered a way more serious agreement than warranty

[Bitter]

3 hours ago, LIGISTX said:

They can be, depending on the situation. I really think your reading way into this though.
 

Can you really not see the point he was trying to make? Or are you just choosing not to for the sake of argument?

 

This is the type of stuff that makes us not able to have nice things. If every time a public facing person says something that can be left to interpretation they get slashed for having opened their mouth, things like WAN show may entirely go away. The public needs to be able to have a sense of understanding and not attack the exact words used - especially if it’s not a representation of what is typical. I used this example before, companies like EA have built up a “tradition” of releasing games that are not complete and thus no one should pre-order games, specifically and especially from EA. LMG has thus far supported its community of consumers by all accounts and has stood by their products. If the CEO of EA goes on YouTube and says “battlefield VI is going to be fully complete at launch, we promise”, probably don’t believe then because of their track record. If linus goes on WAN show and says we still stand behind our products like we always have, maybe give him the benefit of the doubt because that is what they have done historically. Or don’t, and don’t buy their products. Vote with your wallet. I continually buy their shirts because they are some of the highest quality shirts I own, and they are extremely affordable - I vote with my wallet and want to continue to be able to buy their high quality merchandise. 

I understand his sentiment by not wanting to burden his future generations with the baggage of his company, but again one must figure that he's got it set up in such a way that it doesn't just fall onto them if they don't want any part of it. I don't think his grand-daughter will need worry about replacing a back pack if he offered a lifetime warranty.

On the flip side if there is no warranty and it's just 'I'm a good guy trust me' well what happens if he does up and die? Now you have a $250 bag with no warranty AND Mr. Trust Me is no longer around to make sure it's handled right. If he's so concerned about this I think he needs to do the smart thing and spin LTT merch into it's own company (like Floatplane), he can still be in charge of designs but can be legally separated from merch warranty issues so he and his family are not personally responsible.  I doubt that Klaus Märtens grandchildren are cobbling away at warranty boots.

 

I don't think he left a lot open for interpretation. He said exactly what he meant to say, same as the other dubious things he's said.

[GoodBytes]

I would like to remind everyone that a "lifetime warranty" isn't "lifetime" in the sense of... for life (forever and ever).

It is for the lifetime of the PRODUCT, which in a way, can be worse for the consumer than a predefined fixed year.

[Tams]

12 hours ago, clayb91 said:

You're right. Like an iPhone is a luxury. Like a gaming laptop is a luxury. By your logic, because Framework and Fairphone exist, it's okay for other companies to actively lobby against right to repair, right? An alternative exists, so don't buy from the others, right?

We're discussing warranties, not right-to-repair.

 

Warranties, or rather, the right to expect functioning goods is already law in pretty much every country.  The basic protections are already there.

 

Warranties are an optional, legally binding, extra.  So 'take your money elsewhere if you don't like it' absolutely applies.  None of your rights are being impinged upon.

[Tams]

10 hours ago, Thaldor said:

Pure returns are different case and LTTstore has stated their return policies well. On that front they seem to be probably at the same level as any North-American online store, 30-day return window and shipping is on you. Actually just remembered how funny it actually is to live in EU where there is mandatory 14-day return window on non-custom products bought online with complete refund including shipping and at least the sites I often visit have 30-day return window with diversity do they refund the shipping or not, you need to contact the store before to get the shipping labels/directions but otherwise it's pretty much no questions asked. It gets even better within Finland where it seems that pretty much normal is either fill in a paper or at least write a letter about wanting to return the product, bring it to post office or whatever delivery company store used and say it's customer return and they will just slap a sticker on the packet and that's it.

 

Why I want the warranty to be stated is that, it's the minimum bar. It's a company publicly promising that the product in right use will last at least "this" much and if there's any problem, don't hesitate to contact because most likely if you didn't misuse the product, it's a manufacturing error and we will figure it out for you. Figuring out who is at fault and how big the fault is then question of customer service and policies. Anything over that bar will be the overdelivery and it doesn't matter if it's unwritten company policy because it's always nice for the customer. Like this one music store I tend to visit for smaller buys even if it's more expensive than ordering from web, just because you talk a bit with the clerk they will round down the sum to some a bit nicer number, they clearly have headroom in the sticker prices and they do that rounding down to everyone who even a bit talk more than just "hi" and "thanks" and "bye" but it gives a nice feeling when you have already agreed to pay the sticker price and they take a bit off from that.

 

But no warranty policy is just anti-consumerism because then we just have the word of one guy, even if he is the CEO of the company, he is still just one guy. That some companies don't even remotely honor their warranty promises isn't something to point at and say "See! It doesn't matter and if we were going to be evil we would be evil either way!", that's like going to the high jump after the last athlete dropped the bar and celebrate how the bar doesn't matter and jump over it even if it wasn't set back up and expect everyone be amazed how you cleared the imaginary bar.

What I would have wanted Linus to comment was to take the good examples of companies that do extremely well with their warranties and say that's where LTTstore tries to be while actually (as I imagine they have done) doing way better. Not take an example of the most shittiest crap and say that LTTstore even without official warranty does better than them. Like LTTstore doesn't need to be Snap-On or any other special case that goes pole vaulting instead of high jumping but comparing LTTsrore to OCZ... [Joke] Why not go lower and take wish.com or some Amazon/Ebay scammer as the example? Should we also compare the backpack and the screwdriver to the "dollar store" equals? [/Joke _{just to make it clear}]

I agree that one, two, even three year warranties wouldn't be a large burden to offer.  After all, they can be rejected if abuse is suspected.

 

But pretty much everywhere has by law a need for companies to offer at least one year of support.  It's not technically a warranty, but in effect it is one; a more powerful one.

 

In many cases, the warranties sold are infact just the legal minimum required.  In the EU, 'three year warranties' are just the minimum two years with an extra stuck on to make it sound more generous.  This is a bit scummy when sold as 'extended warranties'.

[Imbadatnames]

18 hours ago, Tams said:

Has he criticised small start-ups for not offering warranties?

 

There's a difference between a small company like Creative Warehouse and Apple, Microsoft, Dell, HP, Asus, even Seasonic.  Even Framework, as they have a massive amount of investor capital pumped into them.  The latter can afford to offer warranties, and should be held to a higher standard as they can afford all the quality checks that should happen.

 

Anyway, many warranties aren't worth the paper they are written on.  Quite a few never come into effect if you don't register your product.

 

Those 'lifetime' warranties?  Most come with a load of caveats.  Speaking of bags, Timbuk2 didn't honour theirs to me (despite having claimed nothing from them before) after my bag eventually ripped badly.  But I didn't go leave a poor review on their website as that bag had lasted me years and survived a lot of abuse.

LMG isn’t a startup, they’re a company that bring in tens of millions a year. Just because they’ve moved into a different sector doesn’t make them a startup. They could easily cover a warranty on the backpacks and still be well in the black on just the merch arm. 
 

Warranties don’t cover wear and tear dude.

[Imbadatnames]

18 hours ago, LIGISTX said:

Sure. If you put a blower or a snail on your car, the motor warranty shouldn’t be honored. But if you wrap it… they shouldn’t void your cars warranty mechanically. There are actually laws that put the burden of proof on the manufacturer to prove the modifications you made void the warranty that you are claiming, most companies are fair with this….. not all are. I have had decent luck with Ford personally, they have replaced a transmission in a car that is far from stock… but again, Ferrari will void your warranty for wrapping the car, hell they will sue you if you go what they consider to far off the deep end. So, again, it isn’t about what the company claims they will do, it’s what they actually do. 

 

These days, a lot of that is no longer offered, at least not in So Cal where house buying has gone nuts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. 
 

Camry is still most popular car, and has been for decades. To Toyotas credit, they do an amazing job of offering parts for a long time, and currently do have a 7 year warranty. But Hyundai is 10, Honda is 5, most American cars are 5, aaaaaaand people still buy the ones with 5 year warranties. My mustang had 3 year power train and I still bought it. So, again, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. 
 

Have you dealt with an issue on a purchase from LMG? I have, it was handled superbly. And they even routinely provide people discounts after the fact if they end up having a special WAN sale on things, they just ask that you contact support. That’s…. Pretty fair. Most companies wouldn’t do that.

 

Why do you think that? Maybe don’t speculate on the future if you have no evidence to support it. They have not discontinued any of their merch yet (except for shirts that are special etc). What makes you think they will discontinue the backpack out of fear “oh we know this product sucks so we are going to pump and dump 40,000 of them here real quick”. LMG is not in the business of apparel, and they certainly are not in the pump and dump of commodity goods business. Implying they are makes no sense and shows a complete lack of understanding business strategy. They didn’t tie up a large % of their cash for a pump and dump scheme, that makes no sense for them as a profit chasing company. 
 

At the end of the day, it’s a backpack, you can sow it back together on your own, or find a friend who can. It isn’t a piece of consumer electronics. That is not me writing a warranty off, but at least it is something that can be fixed in most cases. Let’s see how they treat this and see how they do or don’t support the consumers as backpacks start getting shipped. I have a feeling the vast majority of feedback will be positive - as all of their products have been. 

Wrapping a car, especially a highly strung performance model such as a ferrari would void the warranty. You’re adding a layer of insulation to the car and potentially covering up air intakes and messing with the airflow that’s feeding those intakes. 
 

They still offer warranties though. Even a 3 year warranty is standing behind the product. Generally if a manufacturing fault is going to rear its head then it will be within the first few years.

 

It makes perfect sense. The margin on the backpack is insane. I’m sure they would keep selling them if they weren’t called out on the warranty but at this point if they actually put a decent warranty on it then I expect to see it discontinued. 
 

You can’t sew textiles back together dude, at least with traditional hand sewing and assumption an average skill level, the stitching will just rip through the material. You’d need at the very least a good sewing machine to attempt it, actual practice or more likely you’ll be paying for someone to do it. You shouldn’t have to when the bag costs this much. Should electronics not have warranties because I can do board level repair? Most people can’t but screw them right? Also repair isn’t as good or as strong as replacement which is true for everything. 

[LAwLz]

58 minutes ago, Tams said:

But pretty much everywhere has by law a need for companies to offer at least one year of support.  It's not technically a warranty, but in effect it is one; a more powerful one.

Let's be honest, you are just making the things you say up because you hope it is correct, aren't you?

Pretty much everything you have said so far is factually incorrect.

 

 

The laws you are referring to where companies need to offer at least one year of "support", are warranties. "Support" and "warranties" are not exactly the same thing, but the way you are using the two words are incorrect.

A warranty is the legal contract which guarantees that the manufacturer will take care of issues (some, not all) with the product if they arise. Such as the product prematurely breaking in unexpected ways during normal use.

That is what laws such as the EU 2-year minimum legal guarantee is. They are laws that dictate that a manufacturer supplies at least a 2 year warranty. If you got a legal document that states that you will get support for 2 years, then that is a warranty.

 

The problem is that the backpack does not come with any warranty at all. It appears to be sold "as is". 

I don't know the specifics of Canadian consumer protection laws and it seems like they differ between various provincials and territories, but it might be the case that the backpack actually breaks Canadian laws by not offering any warranty.

 

I do believe businesses are obligated by law to accept returns of defective items.

So if you bought a backpack and it was broken out of the box, then LMG would legally have to exchange it for another product (the same or an equal) or refund your purchase.

However, without a warranty, it might be the case that if the backpack breaks after 2 days then Linus could give you the middle finger and tell you to go fuck yourself, and you would potentially have no legal repercussion to take. The risk of this happening is very small, but if it is small then there is no reason for Linus to be so oppose to it.

The fact that he is so very oppose to it can only really mean one thing. He wants to be able to tell customers to fuck off without any legal repercussions.

[Thaldor]

1 hour ago, Tams said:

I agree that one, two, even three year warranties wouldn't be a large burden to offer.  After all, they can be rejected if abuse is suspected.

 

But pretty much everywhere has by law a need for companies to offer at least one year of support.  It's not technically a warranty, but in effect it is one; a more powerful one.

 

In many cases, the warranties sold are infact just the legal minimum required.  In the EU, 'three year warranties' are just the minimum two years with an extra stuck on to make it sound more generous.  This is a bit scummy when sold as 'extended warranties'.

Exactly. Where there's mandatory warranties (British Columbia doesn't seem to have one but only something around "expected lifetime of product" but nothing mandatory like EU has, according to @Spotty) most companies just offer the minimum and people are happy. That Creator Warehouse and LMG happen to be in BC does mean the legal minimum is nothing but we are talking about a big company that has money to spend (IIRC with The Lab Linus has said budged being 8 numbers, while they have clearly invested and might be now tight with the money, they ain't some "mom&pops at the side street selling bread to locals" -company), it's pretty scummy not to offer one and make it clear.

 

At least I wouldn't and don't expect lifetime warranty for even the screwdriver but few years of that if something comes up I have it on black and white that LMG will repair, replace or refund it if it breaks on its own (not because of something I did with it). Just like Gamers Nexus offers 7-year warranty for their toolkit, North Carolina doesn't seem to have mandatory warranty but they do it because that is something the industry does and which is right thing to do. As in if I were to buy their toolkit and within 7-years it breaks and Gamers Nexus hasn't gone out of business, I have it on paper that they will look into it and replace/repair/refund me no matter if Steve is around then or not, they still can have some understandable reasons why they cannot honor my warranty but at least that reason isn't "Steve may have promised a lot but he's not here anymore".

 

But not giving warranty because aliens might invade Earth and replace Linus with ET and Linus doesn't want to legally bind ET to some few year warranties at the end of the humanity especially because DEFIENDTLYNOTCHINESESCAMMER on Anatsone-platform doesn't honor their promise to come and build you a supercomputer if their MOLEX to 1/2" garden hose -adapter breaks your PC, is some really huge BS.

[LAwLz]

23 minutes ago, theOGslippy said:

I don't know if this exists (I'm 16, legal knowledge is not my strong suit), but couldn't he just make a specialized warranty that is "5-year" under certain terms? Is that possible?

In general, all warranties are "under certain conditions".

Usually there are laws that will prevent companies from making the "certain conditions" too narrow, but outside of minimums guaranteed by laws the manufacturers are free to put in whichever conditions they want into their warranties.

 

They could have different warranties for different parts of the bag if they wanted.

They could write into the warranty that it is only valid if used for X or Y activates, but the warranty is void if you use it for Z.

They could potentially say that the warranty is only valid as long as they keep making the bag (if Canada doesn't have any laws regarding guarantees).

 

Some companies requires you to register your product to validate the purchase before offering warranty services. The legality of that differs from country to country, but in some countries you only get a partial warranty unless you register the product.

[RasmusDC]

just an extremely poor excuse, in theory simplified what he says is .. "we can´t be bothered to use time on warrenty, and we don´t want to be liable for defective products" THAT IS WHAT a producer is... if you want to do products, you give people a warranty or some sort of a support option..

 

and yes, if you by any means ends op being a part of this world, and the "left behind" can sell the company and put the responsibility on the shoulders of others, or close it.. i think the "what to do with the employees" is a LARGER concern, than "ohhh we got 3 return bags today, because the product was a POS"..

 

for my concern, it just quantifies what Linus is, and to be honest why he was entertaining, he is "brushing" the top layer of things, he is not an expert, or a professional, he is a viewer, a fan, a person that just observes, that is also why this new direction of labs. and "deep dives" scares me, because it is SO far away from what they actually are doing, it is changing the whole brand.

 

But that is cool however, if you want to put your feet in with the "heavy boys" then you have to accept that it is a risk, and cost, and liability, or else you will NEVER get to the point of people actually believing you..

 

because what is the next.. are your waterbottles "ok" to drink from, because you don´t seem to take responsibility, do you actually know how COMPLEX it is to do ACTUAL product for food safety... and why chinese import in many european areas are a problem, simply because it is impossible to know what plastics, metals etc has been used, and what microdoses of dangerous materials are in them, how clean they are and so on.. 

 

And the next thing the complexity of finding partners, that does not have kids working in the shops, or use scrap metals, or pollute. 

 

Of course then use viable partners, let them handle the quality, but this.. it just scares me, because you are luring a lot of youngsters to buy products, that might seem to be quality, and visually WELL produced, but just a statement like that.. makes me wonder, what else is hiding, because it seems like they are not a 100% IN on accepting responsibility.

 

for me this is a NO go to buy any LTT products, just because of the bagpack, even though i do think the graphics on the mousematt, or the bottles are cool.. 

[Levent]

6 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

Wrapping a car, especially a highly strung performance model such as a ferrari would void the warranty. You’re adding a layer of insulation to the car and potentially covering up air intakes and messing with the airflow that’s feeding those intakes.

You dont wrap a cars air intakes when you wrap it. In fact I can argue wrapping a car has little to no effect on its cooling as cooling is handled by radiators, not cars body. Also, no manufacturer I know of void warranties of wrapped vehicles, Ferrari is no different. In fact, dealers themselves nowadays offer PPF to customers which is identical as wrapping your car with a different color film.

 

Now that I pointed out this shitty argument, if you want to continue please write on my profile not here.

[kumicota]

Regarding Linus talking about the LTT Store support where it's legendary and they always listen to the consumer complains where at the same time they take about two weeks to reply to someone and some tickets can even take months to be answered doesn't make their support legendary but a shit one.

 

A support that takes at least two weeks to reply, where even the COO says that they are full and the tickets backlogs only keeps increasing and that for you to get ahead of the queue you have to tag the CEO and COO on twitter isn't a legendary support but a shitty one instead.

 

There were a few times in the past where Linus wasn't able to get a fast reply from a support team on a product that he bought or is reviewing where he bought it to twitter and complained about it, while his company support does the same and he doesn't bother to fix it.

 

Linus should stop ranting on twitter and acting like Elon Musk and fix/improve his company problems.

 

Spoiler

 

This posts are before the drama:

 

Even the COO says that their support is full of tickets and it keeps increase every new day:

 

LTT(according to the site) has two CS(Customer Service) positions and a open one.

 

How he say that "I'm a great boss" and that his employees are treated well when a CS person is expected to go out on the road and do a logistic person job.

 

Off-site jobs for Customer Support is part of a logistic person to do not a Customer Support Representative, Linus will never clear the ticket backlog by ignoring it.

Spoiler

 

[LIGISTX]

4 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

rapping a car, especially a highly strung performance model such as a ferrari would void the warranty. You’re adding a layer of insulation to the car and potentially covering up air intakes and messing with the airflow that’s feeding those intakes. 

That… is the most insane thing I have ever heard. Lol. A wrap will not affect anything about the car except the looks. It’s not a layer of insulation. It doesn’t affect thermals. Don’t create an argument that is nonsensical just to defend a point. 
 

Thermals on cars are managed by heat exchangers. Heat exchangers would never be covered by a wrap unless whoever is doing it actually has no idea what they are doing…. No one would wrap over an air intake or a radiator opening. My car is effectively “wrapped” because it has a full clear bra on it, which is a relatively standard thing to do on exotic cars especially, it doesn’t have anything impact on cooling, and it definitely has no bearing on a warranty. It’s a cosmetic change… this is the type of argument a car manufacturer would make and the internet would be up in arms over seeing as it would be a corporation finding a way to weasel out of proving warranty services. No, a wrap would never be grounds for a voided warranty. 
 

4 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

It makes perfect sense. The margin on the backpack is insane. I’m sure they would keep selling them if they weren’t called out on the warranty but at this point if they actually put a decent warranty on it then I expect to see it discontinued. 

Why does that make sense. If the martins are huge, a warranty wouldn’t suddenly make the margins negative… the more of the same thing they make, economies of scale take over and profit only goes up. This, again, makes no sense. They may discontinue it because they are not a backpack company, but I suspect they will have them for sale for years.

[LIGISTX]

5 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

You can’t sew textiles back together dude, at least with traditional hand sewing and assumption an average skill level, the stitching will just rip through the material. You’d need at the very least a good sewing machine to attempt it, actual practice or more likely you’ll be paying for someone to do it. You shouldn’t have to when the bag costs this much. Should electronics not have warranties because I can do board level repair? Most people can’t but screw them right? Also repair isn’t as good or as strong as replacement which is true for everything. 

This is fair. I was trying to make a point of it being a macro level product, that doesn’t take advanced techniques to repair. But it would be impractical or impossible for 99.9% of buyers to repair themselves, that is a valid point. My argument here was flawed. 

[Ravendarat]

19 hours ago, clayb91 said:

Honestly, I'm in wave 1 and not planning to cancel. But if I get it and I don't like it, or if it is flawed, I will definitely be contacting support. It would be really nice to know ahead of time what they consider a big enough flaw to warrant replacement or refund. Right now that is not published anywhere and that is unacceptable, especially for a $250 product.

 

I hope that they publish something. I hope that they're more transparent in their support policies and how they back up their products. I take issue with how he has handled the situation, especially when he would call out other companies for less, no matter their size.

What would you like to see listed as flaws that are big enough to warrant replacement? Like im interested in what you, or anyone else in here for that matter would consider to be something that requires replacement? I just kinda want to see where peoples heads are at on this topic. Obviously a bag that arrives with a hole in it or a busted zipper would OBVIOUSLY warrant a replacement but what is the minimum starting point for needing product replacement?

[Thaldor]

42 minutes ago, Ravendarat said:

What would you like to see listed as flaws that are big enough to warrant replacement? Like im interested in what you, or anyone else in here for that matter would consider to be something that requires replacement? I just kinda want to see where peoples heads are at on this topic. Obviously a bag that arrives with a hole in it or a busted zipper would OBVIOUSLY warrant a replacement but what is the minimum starting point for needing product replacement?

I fail to see how this is relevant?

 

If the product isn't what it has been marketed and said to be or breaks in normal and intended use before it could be expected to break, it must be manufacturing error and falls under warranty. If you just don't like it or whatever reason that isn't the fault of the seller, it falls under return policy.

 

If the product has a dot of different color that shouldn't be there and the customer wasn't informed that there might be different colored dots on the product because some understandable reason, it's manufacturing error and so falls under warranty. If you ordered black but got light gray and the seller didn't say it could be gray, it's either shipping mistake or manufacturing error and falls under warranty or just mistake correction. If you ordered black, got black but would have liked gray, it's a return.

Difference between return and warranty/mistake correction is who is at fault (warranty/other mistake -> seller, return -> customer) and who pays the shipping costs and other third party costs.

[Greyspectre]

IMO A company that is good about replacements and treating customers well without a formalized warranty is better than a company that has a warranty but looks for every excuse and puts up every hurdle to avoid honoring it. A company that is both good about replacements, treating customers and has a formalized warranty is far and away preferable by an enormous margin though.

 

Regardless I think Linus's handling of the situation was poor. He could have said something to the degree of "we stand by our products like we always have and for the moment will continue replacing them on a case by case basis, but we will look at formalizing the warranty in the future". That would have come off much better talking about how warranties are worthless because companies can go under.

 

The LTT store is small enough and low volume enough that if they started actually not replacing products that should be covered under a warranty they would get absolutely blasted and it would really hurt their sales, particularly as they market their things as well made and not the cheapest option available.

[Lomac]

3 hours ago, kumicota said:

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This posts are before the drama:

 

Even the COO says that their support is full of day:

 

 

How he say that "I'm a great boss" and that his employees are treated well when a CS person is expected to go out on the road and do a logistic person job.

 

Off-site jobs for Customer Support is part of a logistic person to do not a Customer Support Representative, Linus will never clear the ticket backlog by ignoring it.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

To be fair, assuming the on-site inventory management is just a monthly cycle count type of deal, it's not that big of an issue. Couple hours a month is likely all it needs, assuming they have a half way decent inventory management system in place. I suspect the problem lay's within the fact that the logistics team is employed by the LTT division and wouldn't be able to work for Creative Warehouse due to them being separate companies. Not enough work to justify an employee at CW for it, hence being pawned off to an existing position. But that's just pure speculation as people like Sarah are in LTT videos despite AFAIK working for CW, so who knows what sort of cross-pollination policies are in place.

 

That said, @nicklmg if you're still looking for new hires, I'm local, have plenty of multi-million dollar inventory management experience for billion+ dollar companies, and don't mind helping with support tickets...

[Spotty]

16 minutes ago, Lomac said:

That said, @nicklmg if you're still looking for new hires, I'm local, have plenty of multi-million dollar inventory management experience for billion+ dollar companies, and don't mind helping with support tickets...

If you're interested check the job postings page for how to apply.

https://linusmediagroup.com/jobs

[clayb91]

1 hour ago, Ravendarat said:

What would you like to see listed as flaws that are big enough to warrant replacement? Like im interested in what you, or anyone else in here for that matter would consider to be something that requires replacement? I just kinda want to see where peoples heads are at on this topic. Obviously a bag that arrives with a hole in it or a busted zipper would OBVIOUSLY warrant a replacement but what is the minimum starting point for needing product replacement?

Maybe not as big as a hole. What about hanging threads? Or seams that aren't straight? On a gen 1 product, QA issues will be there, but there isn't an outline for what they will or won't do about it.

 

Edit: Or even bigger problems. What if it arrives in good condition, but it tears when I tug on the straps? What level of wear and tear is considered reasonable? All of these questions they could answer with a posted policy

Edited August 10, 2022 by clayb91
clarification

[clayb91]

9 hours ago, Tams said:

We're discussing warranties, not right-to-repair.

 

Warranties, or rather, the right to expect functioning goods is already law in pretty much every country.  The basic protections are already there.

 

Warranties are an optional, legally binding, extra.  So 'take your money elsewhere if you don't like it' absolutely applies.  None of your rights are being impinged upon.

But it's all the same. If you disagree with what a company is doing, just go somewhere else, right? If one company offers a warranty, but not another, then buy the one with the warranty. If one product lets you swap RAM modules, and another doesn't, then buy the one that does, right?