German government voting over mandatory updates for smart devices (Smartphones, TVs, smart appliances,...)

[aexel05]

Summary

Germanys ruling coalition consisting of CDU/CSU and SPD agreed on a new law, that would make updates for smart devices mandatory for a "period that the consumer can expect" (translated citation from the text of the law). This would oblige companies that want to sell to German costumers (meaning most of them) to provide updates for their devices for an extended period which could impact the whole market. The bill will be voted on at the 24th of June and could come into effect in January 2022.

 

Quotes

Quote

The governing parties CDU/CSU and SPD have agreed on the content of a new law that will introduce mandatory updates for smart devices. As reported by Handelsblatt , the Bundestag is expected to vote on the law this week and it should then come into force on January 1, 2022. The new law is intended to strengthen consumer rights and implement two EU directives.

According to the draft law, manufacturers of digital products will be obliged to deliver updates. In this way, consumers are to be assured that the devices they have purchased can also be used permanently and safely. Specifically, the Bundestag will vote on the new law on June 24 in its 236th session under the agenda item "Consumer contracts for digital products." The bill provides for an amendment to Section 475b of the German Civil Code (BGB). There, the obligation to update will be enshrined in law.

-pcwelt.de ; translated with www.DeepL.com

This change to §475b BGB would add the following requirement for a sold device to be free from defects (italicised text is the new draft)

Quote

(4) A thing with digital elements meets the objective requirements if

1. ...

2. "the consumer is provided with updates necessary to maintain the conformity of the item with the contract, and the consumer is informed of these updates, during the period that the consumer can expect, given the nature and purpose of the item and its digital elements, and taking into account the circumstances and nature of the contract." - translated by deepl.com

"dem Verbraucher während des Zeitraums, den er aufgrund der Art und des Zwecks der Sache und ihrer  digitalen Elemente sowie unter Berücksichtigung der Umstände und der Art des Vertrags erwarten  kann, Aktualisierungen bereitgestellt werden, die für den Erhalt der Vertragsmäßigkeit der Sache erforderlich sind, und der Verbraucher über diese Aktualisierungen informiert wird." - german (original) from proposed §475b BGB

 

 

My thoughts

I hope and think that this bill passes on the 24th and following that manufacturers will need to lengthen the lifespan of their products by providing software updates for an extended period of time. Given that the options of manufacturers serving the German market are to either not sell their products anymore or provide updates for longer, I think that this could lengthen the software support for devices in general. Since, if you already develop updates for the German market, you can roll them out worldwide. 

 

 

Sources

Smartphones Software: Update-Pflicht für Smartphone-Verkäufer (handelsblatt.com)

Gesetz führt Update-Pflicht für smarte Geräte ein - PC-WELT (pcwelt.de)

Drucksache 19/27424 (bundestag.de) -  52 page long PDF about this law draft

 

This is my first news post and English is not my native language, so please be kind

[Anghammarad]

Finally my 6 year old daily driver Nokia Lumia 830 will get updates again =) 

 

(it just won't break, has still excellent reception, battery lasts 2 days etc) ... and my late wife told me, if it ain't broken, you don't need a new one... well... shouldn't have bought a nokia then...

[Forbidden Wafer]

The good: longer support.

The bad: longer doesn't mean better.

The ugly: does that reach the OEM? Like Tuya, or just the millions of companies that rebrand their stuff and actually sell to customers? If the later, create a new company and you're free.

[Quackers101]

support, last update... updated UI.

security patch, 2 years ago!

[Sauron]

Nice, but the wording seems a bit ambiguous - for how long can a user "expect" to get updates?

[aexel05]

26 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Nice, but the wording seems a bit ambiguous - for how long can a user "expect" to get updates?

Yeah that one of the problems with german law. It's sometimes open for interpretation. What follows will be some court cases, some judges deciding some things and then those decisions will be used as precedence cases. I hope they specify it more in the future.

45 minutes ago, Anghammarad said:

Finally my 6 year old daily driver Nokia Lumia 830 will get updates again =) 

 

(it just won't break, has still excellent reception, battery lasts 2 days etc) ... and my late wife told me, if it ain't broken, you don't need a new one... well... shouldn't have bought a nokia then...

I don't think that's an "period that the consumer can expect"  

38 minutes ago, Forbidden Wafer said:

The good: longer support.

The bad: longer doesn't mean better.

The ugly: does that reach the OEM? Like Tuya, or just the millions of companies that rebrand their stuff and actually sell to customers? If the later, create a new company and you're free.

I dont think this "sell stuff, then create a new company"-solution works on the german market. Most germans stick to brands they already know and the big players dominate most markets. 

[aexel05]

35 minutes ago, Quackers101 said:

support, last update... updated UI.

security patch, 2 years ago!

what do you mean?

was your device's last update 2 years ago?

[Forbidden Wafer]

7 minutes ago, jonahadami said:

I dont think this "sell stuff, then create a new company"-solution works on the german market. Most germans stick to brands they already know and the big players dominate most markets. 

I get that would be the case for fridges, washing machines and other large stuff, but for smaller IoT?
Are there big brands with vacuum/mopping robots, smart outlets/switches? Here they are simply non-existent.
Pretty much all of them are rebranded chinese stuff: Xiaomi/RobotRock, Tuya, Liectroux, etc.

[Anghammarad]

1 minute ago, jonahadami said:

I don't think that's an "period that the consumer can expect"  

 

 

Then just look back a "few" years... cars lasted half a million miles if you treated them well, without the engine breaking.

Washing machines worked 20+ years without a bigger failure, TVs worked 10+ years etc... 

 

and now... well... things are built to last mostly only a little after the warranty span... 

 

Same with support. 

 

I think there are way too many devices coming out each year which really aren't necessary in regard of performance of the previous generation... sure every few years there is a leap in performance, but then if your device still handles the things you use it for in a manner you are ok with, why get a new one, use it until it really is dead in a natural way.

 

 

[aexel05]

3 minutes ago, Forbidden Wafer said:

I get that would be the case for fridges, washing machines and other large stuff, but for smaller IoT?
Are there big brands with vacuum/mopping robots, smart outlets/switches? Here they are simply non-existent.
Pretty much all of them are rebranded chinese stuff: Xiaomi/RobotRock, Tuya, Liectroux, etc.

Now that I think about it you might be right. it's definetely true for "old" devices like fridges, washing machines as you mentioned, but the market for small IoT-devices is really not that established yet. 
I guess there needs to be some mechanism to prevent this, but this would be considered a harsh regulation of the free market.

6 minutes ago, Anghammarad said:

Then just look back a "few" years... cars lasted half a million miles if you treated them well, without the engine breaking.

Washing machines worked 20+ years without a bigger failure, TVs worked 10+ years etc... 

 

and now... well... things are built to last mostly only a little after the warranty span... 

 

Same with support. 

 

 

Well the concept of a washing machine doesn't change that much anymore. The tech that makes TVs, cars or smartphones tick is in rapid change.

7 minutes ago, Anghammarad said:

I think there are way too many devices coming out each year which really aren't necessary in regard of performance of the previous generation... sure every few years there is a leap in performance, but then if your device still handles the things you use it for in a manner you are ok with, why get a new one, use it until it really is dead in a natural way.

But its definitely true, that there are too many new devices a year. especially coming from "cheap" eastern brands.

With phones I think there's a stagnation in "new things" and I don't see a reason to buy a new one except for software updates (which this law change should tackle) 

[Kisai]

8 hours ago, Forbidden Wafer said:

The good: longer support.

The bad: longer doesn't mean better.

The ugly: does that reach the OEM? Like Tuya, or just the millions of companies that rebrand their stuff and actually sell to customers? If the later, create a new company and you're free.

Pretty much

 

oems with low warranty periods will just not be sold in germany

 

[Mihle]

If German law is anything like Norwegian law, it normal for laws to be less spesific than what you see in US, US law is usually very spesific on everything in comparison and then get longer.

It's usually up to the courts to interpret what is or isn't breaking the law and stuff with less spesific law.

 

This might still be too vague tho.

[Forbidden Wafer]

19 minutes ago, Kisai said:

oems with low warranty periods will just not be sold in germany

Do they have longer warranties than 1-2 years? Most electronics are 1 year. Really uncommon to see stuff longer than that around here. Only exceptions I know are some GPUs, with up to 3 years, and cars with up to 6 years.

[Kisai]

8 minutes ago, Forbidden Wafer said:

Do they have longer warranties than 1-2 years? Most electronics are 1 year. Really uncommon to see stuff longer than that around here. Only exceptions I know are some GPUs, with up to 3 years, and cars with up to 6 years.

The seasonic PSU I just bought has a 12yr warranty, but that’s a part with no software to upgrade.

 

This would apply to things like smartphones as well as computer motherboards. Like consider the patches to the 4th-9th gen Intel CPU’s for the side channel execution flaws. Some manufacturers just don’t give a care and don’t update things after 2years.

[Spindel]

Unless this law also specifys what an update must contain I see it as kind of useless.

[Avocado Diaboli]

I definitely like the idea of forcing manufacturers to keep updating their devices for a guaranteed period of time, both for environmental reasons as well as just hopefully costing the consumer less if they can keep their stuff for longer. And yes, while European laws tend to be less specific and more generalized, this vagueness has opened the door for many laws that, while they on paper sound like a good deal, turn out less than favorable in practice. Because as it is, this "expected period" is not defined, and if any of the tech manufacturers have half a brain, they'll be sure to lobby hard to convince politicians and courts that this period is as short as possible.

 

And to come back to the costs, if, say, phone manufacturers are required to provide updates for a minimum of 5 years instead of the regular 2 years we see now (that's my own personal experience with regards to non-security related OS updates like new Android versions), I expect them to pass on the cost of that prolonged support onto the customer, simply because they can.

[suicidalfranco]

Heh

Probably gonna end up being as long as the warranty on the device is still active, so 2 years at best

[Fetzie]

2 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

Heh

Probably gonna end up being as long as the warranty on the device is still active, so 2 years at best

The warranty starts at time of purchase though, not when the product is released. So if a smartphone remains on sale for 3 years after release to market and has a 2 year warrnty, they can expect to have customers with active warranty support 5 years after the product was released.

[NeuesTestament]

3 hours ago, Spindel said:

Unless this law also specifys what an update must contain I see it as kind of useless.

It does specify what these updates need to do. Just read the draft in the first post.

[NeuesTestament]

Going by the phrasing I doubt this law would make a big difference for update support in the Android world (iOS has long enough update support anyways). It will likely be tied to the price of the product and since the more premium devices already get longer updates, I think it will only affect budget phones that get none or just one OS update. That's at least what I am suspecting.

[HempBoosh]

I see a lot of people excited that this might impact the entire smartphone market, but I don't think it will. Yes, it would be a logical thing to do: if you develop an update for Germany, you might as well release it worldwide, BUT companies don't make decisions based on logic, they make decisions based on $$$. AND their sales would suffer from longer lifecycle of their devices worldwide.

 

Sooo, I think they will comply in Germany, and that's it.

[Spindel]

1 hour ago, NeuesTestament said:

It does specify what these updates need to do. Just read the draft in the first post.

If you refer to this

Quote

"the consumer is provided with updates necessary to maintain the conformity of the item with the contract, and the consumer is informed of these updates, during the period that the consumer can expect, given the nature and purpose of the item and its digital elements, and taking into account the circumstances and nature of the contract."

I still consider this fairly vague. I mean just because stuff don't get updates it doesn't mean it stops working. My TVs won't stop working even if they don't get any updates (given I don't use the built in "smart" functions anyway) in that case "the conformity" of the devices thus work even without any updates. 

 

A phone that is not sold as "safe" do well even without security updates it's just a bit less safe but "the conformity" of the device is still within contract.  

 

Don't get me wrong I think the concept is great, it's just toothless if it doesn't specify what counts as an update and is easy to circumvent. 

 

EDIT:// And if it's updates for updates sake be prepared for useless updates that just ups FW number without any real changes.

[NeuesTestament]

26 minutes ago, HempBoosh said:

I see a lot of people excited that this might impact the entire smartphone market, but I don't think it will. Yes, it would be a logical thing to do: if you develop an update for Germany, you might as well release it worldwide, BUT companies don't make decisions based on logic, they make decisions based on $$$. AND their sales would suffer from longer lifecycle of their devices worldwide.

 

Sooo, I think they will comply in Germany, and that's it.

We should also keep in mind that from the phrasing of the law, it wouldn't necessairly require a full OS update. The thing is a lot of Android phones run fine even with older versions of the OS, so apart from security updates the impact itself might be indeed low.

[Bombastinator]

The thing I can see this hitting really hard is iot stuff.  I really like it in that it’s NEEDED for iot.  People are turning that stuff into bot nets at such a high rate I won’t allow it in my house. I don’t know if Germany is bug enough to make that one stick though.  The whole EU would be.  Another one would be android phones.  GN a be iffy whether a company wants to put in the added cost or just not sell there.  Again if it goes EU wide it would be enough.  I can see this bill going through and then being pulled again in a few years if other countries don’t pick it up.  California does this with a lot of success though.  My state is apparently picking up some California legislation in the near future.  Such stuff can have a momentum.

[aexel05]

17 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

The whole EU would be

Apparently its the Implementation of an EU directive.
But I dont know when this directive needs to be implemented in the other member countries and how they plan to implement it.