COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[tikker]

14 minutes ago, The Unknown Voice said:

 

Tell the surgeons that both do not work, and tell me what their response is..I'll wait.

 

They're simply saying a shield is not a replacement for a mask, which studies well before the pandemic have corroborated. As you yourself said, the doctors use mask AND shield. Even if they're only using a shield that doesn't immediately imply it's equal or better than a mask. If you're in such heavy contact you'll want all the layers of protection you can get.

[tikker]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Voice said:

Evey business does things in a different way. The face shield is a fix for someone like me who has heart failure, and has a hard time with a mask.

The CDC giving out guidelines is fine, but every state will do their thing different.

That's completely fine and in line with what I'm saying. There are multiple situations where a shield could be preferred over a mask. Someone not being able to wear a mask due to whatever condition they may have is also not uncommon, but neither situation changes the fact that a shield does not replace a mask and hence the recommendation shouldn't change either.

[Andreas Lilja]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/majority-covid-19-cases-large-public-events-were-among-vaccinated-us-cdc-study-2021-07-30/

 

Oh someone is going to jump on this.

 

Better headline: outbreak in Massachusetts, plenty of vaccinated people with flu like symptoms for a few days.

[dalekphalm]

17 hours ago, King_PIN said:

Wow is this part of the community standards or is it just overlooked because the masses here are in agreement?  LOL  

If there's something you think is violating the community standards, use the report button (you can find it on any post) and report the posts to the mod team. The mod team cannot be everywhere at once, and it's up to the users to point out issues to them.

[PhantomJaguarr]

I'm not sure if what I caught was just the common cold or a mild form of the delta variant that's prevalent around here because I'm vaccinated. I'm just glad I retained my sense of smell and taste the whole time and recovered within 6 days just fine. 

 

https://fox5sandiego.com/news/coronavirus/san-diego-county-records-new-high-in-daily-covid-19-cases-since-feb-5/

 

And I ain't telling customers again to mask up even if the CDC requires it. Getting shot over it isn't worth it.

 

https://www.kron4.com/news/national/cashier-shot-and-killed-in-supermarket-over-stores-mask-policy-sheriff/

[tikker]

15 hours ago, Andreas Lilja said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/majority-covid-19-cases-large-public-events-were-among-vaccinated-us-cdc-study-2021-07-30/

 

Oh someone is going to jump on this.

 

Better headline: outbreak in Massachusetts, plenty of vaccinated people with flu like symptoms for a few days.

  Oh yeah, brace yourself for the "see the vaccine doesn't even work" responses.

57 minutes ago, PhantomJaguar77 said:

I'm not sure if what I caught was just the common cold or a mild form of the delta variant that's prevalent around here because I'm vaccinated. I'm just glad I retained my sense of smell and taste the whole time and recovered within 6 days just fine. 

 

https://fox5sandiego.com/news/coronavirus/san-diego-county-records-new-high-in-daily-covid-19-cases-since-feb-5/

 

And I ain't telling customers again to mask up even if the CDC requires it. Getting shot over it isn't worth it.

 

https://www.kron4.com/news/national/cashier-shot-and-killed-in-supermarket-over-stores-mask-policy-sheriff/

Can't read the article because of geoblocking, but man how detached and entitled do you have to be to freaking kill people because they ask you to help stop the spread of a dangerous virus?

 

Of all the things you could think of, the one that has derailed society is the simple request to wear a face mask during a pandemic.

[PhantomJaguarr]

15 minutes ago, tikker said:

Can't read the article because of geoblocking, but man how detached and entitled do you have to be to freaking kill people because they ask you to help stop the spread of a dangerous virus?

I’ll quote part of it :

 

Quote

DECATUR, Ga. (NEXSTAR) – A triple shooting at a Georgia grocery store Monday afternoon started with a dispute over a mask and left a cashier dead and both the suspect and a deputy wounded, authorities say.

 

The suspect, 30-year-old Victor Lee Tucker, Jr., of Palmetto, Georgia, was checking out when he got into an argument about his mask with a female cashier at Big Bear Supermarket in Decatur, according to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

(Source again) https://www.kron4.com/news/national/cashier-shot-and-killed-in-supermarket-over-stores-mask-policy-sheriff/

 

I’ll take my chances with a virus I’m vaccinated against than a bullet.

[tikker]

5 minutes ago, PhantomJaguar77 said:

I’ll quote part of it :

 

(Source again) https://www.kron4.com/news/national/cashier-shot-and-killed-in-supermarket-over-stores-mask-policy-sheriff/

 

I’ll take my chances with a virus I’m vaccinated against than a bullet.

Geez. Yeah stay safe out there. A mask is not worth taking a bullet over.

[dalekphalm]

6 minutes ago, PhantomJaguar77 said:

I’ll quote part of it :

 

(Source again) https://www.kron4.com/news/national/cashier-shot-and-killed-in-supermarket-over-stores-mask-policy-sheriff/

 

I’ll take my chances with a virus I’m vaccinated against than a bullet.

What, you're telling me you haven't gotten your bullet vaccine yet????

[12345678]

middle-aged and geezer should not have access to the net imo /s (it would not solve the issue)

 

in the stupid no vax/no green past protest, the average looks either boomers/middle ages group

 

 

[Andreas Lilja]

4 hours ago, 12345678 said:

middle-aged and geezer should not have access to the net imo /s (it would not solve the issue)

 

in the stupid no vax/no green past protest, the average looks either boomers/middle ages group

 

 

Don't the elderly have a high vaccination rate?

 

Also here a lot of baby boomers support the government's response, remember even the curfew having ~70 % approval.

 

[IkeaGnome]

22 hours ago, The Unknown Voice said:

In Connecticut, the rate is now 2.72%, and most of the counties are now hotspots...Great!

 

We're back up to 5.65% positivity rate here in Alaska. 2 cases recently here at work. Both were vaccinated individuals. Neither wanted to go to the medic to get looked at. Both were turned in by co workers.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021/07/30/alaska-reports-two-new-deaths-as-coronavirus-surge-puts-every-region-in-high-alert/

[ooh shiny]

What psychology says about COVID non-compliers - The University of Sydney 

There's some pretty good stuff in this study about the things that non-compliant people are more likely to be/do:

 

- they are less well-informed and less likely to check the facts (aka more likely to be susceptible to misinformation)

- more likely to be male

- more likely to reveal self-interested traits in personality testing

- less likely to be using productive coping strategies

 

The group of non-compliant people made up about 10% of the people in the study and interestingly were not that old.

[Guest]

On 7/17/2021 at 4:53 PM, Andreas Lilja said:

Anyone got an argument for healthcare workers not to be vaccinated?
 

Cringe beyond belief. 

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/8033179/quebec-covid19-vaccination-update/

 

I'd much rather have passports but I'll take whatever.

Theres no argument. You are actually required to have some vaccinations to be a healthcare worker. I need Hepatitis A and Hepatitis B vaccines because I work with colon tissue samples. No vaccine, can't work legally with the samples. If you don't believe in vaccines, you aren't in a real health profession. 

 

On 7/18/2021 at 10:49 AM, Andreas Lilja said:

So Facebook can't post Covid misconceptions but alternative (I mean pseudoscientific) medicine is not limited to Covid?

 

Theres certainly no harm in homeopathy that isn't detrimental. Essential oils and herbal teas do smell nice. The placebo effect can be quite significant. 

 

However, alternative medicine, that people take in place of real medicine, should never be promoted. It is just misinformation. If it really worked, it wouldn't be alternative. 

 

Keep in mind there is literally a study for everything. Take Ivermectin for example, plenty of studies for ivermectin for COVID, all of them prove it doesn't work, or the study is limited by evidence. Even a few for cranberry juice for a urinary tract infection preventative. Doesn't work. 

[Quackers101]

4 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

Theres certainly no harm in homeopathy that isn't detrimental. Essential oils and herbal teas do smell nice. The placebo effect can be quite significant. 

 

However, alternative medicine, that people take in place of real medicine, should never be promoted. It is just misinformation. If it really worked, it wouldn't be alternative.

Sure, however there is a difference in needing less medicine to making it as the alternative.

Spoiler

 

There are issues with medicine too, as in too many drugs used or mixing them and sometimes often, as you never know what some doctors might do or prescribe you for or not think about since there is a lot to think about around these sometimes hard impacting drugs that can change your life or be toxic.

As some doctors do try to be open about, if there is an "alternative" to the medicine it can be better, but that is more as an "be healthy don't let your life depend on the drugs to make you healthy" kind of way. As said about hospitals and mood, the happier you are, the better you might become and released sooner. Or when stopping using quick chemical or medicine to solve your issues is mostly when other methods can be recommended instead and be less harmful.

 

 

[tikker]

4 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

Theres no argument. You are actually required to have some vaccinations to be a healthcare worker. I need Hepatitis A and Hepatitis B vaccines because I work with colon tissue samples. No vaccine, can't work legally with the samples. If you don't believe in vaccines, you aren't in a real health profession. 

I wonder if there's an (anti)correlation between those that took e.g. the Hep. A and B vaccines without question and those that now refuse the COVID-19 one.

4 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

Theres certainly no harm in homeopathy that isn't detrimental. Essential oils and herbal teas do smell nice. The placebo effect can be quite significant. 

Indeed this. If a cup of tea reduces your headache, even if it's placebo effect, go for it and prescribe a cup of tea. As you say the dangerous aspects come into play when (exagerrated example) someone chops their leg off and you recommend sprinkling some rose oil on it.

[captain_to_fire]

5 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

Theres certainly no harm in homeopathy that isn't detrimental. Essential oils and herbal teas do smell nice. The placebo effect can be quite significant. 

The detriment with homeopathy is spending money on something that will not work. They believe that like cures like but dilute it many times to the point the said substance is virtually absent so why bother with homeopathy? Essential oils is about as good as making a room smell nice and relaxing, but that's about it.

 

 

5 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

Keep in mind there is literally a study for everything. Take Ivermectin for example, plenty of studies for ivermectin for COVID, all of them prove it doesn't work, or the study is limited by evidence.

US NIH guidelines show that Ivermectin may work only on a megadose in in-vitro studies which is not better than not giving the drug at all.

[tikker]

31 minutes ago, The Unknown Voice said:

If you run a billion dollar company, and someone has something better, you would do your best to squash it.

My physical therapist uses nothing but natural products, and she knows what she is talking about.

Natural products are different from homeopathy and do not mean snake oil. There certainly are e.g. herbal remedies that work, because they contain the necessary active ingredients. Even in medicine a lot originated (perhaps still does) from natural stuff. Just from the top of my head quinine (for malaria treatment) came/comes from plants and penicilin came/comes from mould.

 

Homeopathy is (or was originally at least) based on the assumption that if you ingest a strongly diluted/weakened version of what harms you, it will cure you. While this may to a certain extent hold for poisons and viruses (hmm, how topical), it's far from a general truth. The problem with homeopathic stuff is that it is far too dilute to matter, if it contains any of the relevant ingredient at all. For example, it would be akin to dissolving a single aspirin in 1000L of water and then saying that a shot glass of that water will cure your headache. We simply know from our extensive knowledge of aspirin that such a concentration is too low to have any meaningful effect. If it works in those circumstances, it's more than likely that it's a placebo effect.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Quackers101 said:

Sure, however there is a difference in needing less medicine to making it as the alternative.

  Hide contents

 

There are issues with medicine too, as in too many drugs used or mixing them and sometimes often, as you never know what some doctors might do or prescribe you for or not think about since there is a lot to think about around these sometimes hard impacting drugs that can change your life or be toxic.

As some doctors do try to be open about, if there is an "alternative" to the medicine it can be better, but that is more as an "be healthy don't let your life depend on the drugs to make you healthy" kind of way. As said about hospitals and mood, the happier you are, the better you might become and released sooner. Or when stopping using quick chemical or medicine to solve your issues is mostly when other methods can be recommended instead and be less harmful.

 

 

I agree in that some doctors do overprescribe stuff for minor conditions, overprescription for antibiotics and some medications, such as accutane, is quite rampant. I would still trust your doctor to make the correct decisions regarding your health, and anyone is fine to question what the doctor prescribes - it is the doctors job to explain to you in an appropriate way their decisions regarding your health in a clear and accurate manner. They have the proper training and expertise to make these decisions. 

 

6 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

The detriment with homeopathy is spending money on something that will not work. They believe that like cures like but dilute it many times to the point the said substance is virtually absent so why bother with homeopathy? Essential oils is about as good as making a room smell nice and relaxing, but that's about it.

Emphasis on used in conjunction with real medicine haha. Some people do take it to the extreme, like with buying up hypobaric chambers for personal use, buying personal oxygen, allogeneic stem cell treatments etc. Expensive garbage. 

6 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

 

US NIH guidelines show that Ivermectin may work only on a megadose in in-vitro studies which is not better than not giving the drug at all.

I havent seen those guidelines, i just read the systematic review doing the rounds on the popular tab in PubMed. I just can't get past how people think a drug designed to treat parasites can treat a virus. Those are two very different immune responses. We can target COVID in a much more precise and potent way with a vaccine, and potentially antivirals.  These are agents we have, and know work. 

[captain_to_fire]

2 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

I havent seen those guidelines, i just read the systematic review doing the rounds on the popular tab in PubMed. I just can't get past how people think a drug designed to treat parasites can treat a virus. Those are two very different immune responses. We can target COVID in a much more precise and potent way with a vaccine, and potentially antivirals.  These are agents we have, and know work. 

Actually even during pre-Covid times Ivermectin was used as an off-label drug for many things it turns out. The NIH guidelines show that they're not dismissive of the use of Ivermectin but studies on it are quite scarce and inconsistent. In fact, all drugs used for Covid-19 are in the context of compassionate use. Here in , Ivermectin is only used for mild Covid under the context of compassionate use. The theoretical mechanism of action observed in in-vitro studies is that Ivermectin prevents the docking of the SARS-Cov-2 to cells, and it inhibits transport proteins that enhance infection. But the studies show that you need megadoses to achieve this, and even with megadose it doesn't seem to hasten recovery.

 

Why? Because no Phase 1-4 studies are done for these drugs for Covid-19. That is why many Covid-19 patients are asked to sign a waiver because these drugs are for compassionate use under the logic of "something is better than nothing", hence everything doctors use for treating Covid patients is based on observation. There is no guarantee that these drugs will help them especially for severe cases. The likes of US NIH is leading the charge with compiling and sifting through multiple clinical studies around the world. Many severe covid patients succumb to multi-organ failure despite of multiple drugs given. This is one of the reasons why smart ass people who say that it's better to get infected and develop immunity naturally than from a vaccine makes me face palm and hit something with my fist. I know several people who got reinfected just a month after recovering from Covid and turned out that the second one is worse. It makes me think that antibodies from the natural infection doesn't last long. Antibodies from vaccines on the other hand show a much durable protection, higher antibody titers, and stronger T cell response which is just as important as humoral response.

 

In fact, there are drugs that are now used differently from their intended use. Minoxidil for instance is developed to be an anti-hypertensive drug but now used as a topical hair growth stimulant. Sildenafil was developed for people with heart conditions, but the adverse effect was good for men with erectile dysfunction.

7 hours ago, The Unknown Voice said:

If you run a billion dollar company, and someone has something better, you would do your best to squash it.

My physical therapist uses nothing but natural products, and she knows what she is talking about.

 

I'm just gonna leave here what I said a year ago about the problem with herbal supplements and natural products which I still stand to this day.

Natural products that work is no longer alternative medicine, it is now real medicine. In fact, there are actually FDA approved herbal preparations because they were able to demonstrate that it actually works. But unlike supplements, they purified and standardized the contents.

[Quackers101]

17 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

Natural products that work is no longer alternative medicine, it is now real medicine. In fact, there are actually FDA approved herbal preparations because they were able to demonstrate that it actually works. But unlike supplements, they purified and standardized the contents.

food, chemist, medicine not meth, I swear it was for my health!

Also how we are already accepting toxic chemicals in our foods or rather harmful foods, although some are not as toxic to us as they are to animals.

chocolate, cinnamon and other spices, soda etc.

[captain_to_fire]

51 minutes ago, Quackers101 said:

chocolate, cinnamon and other spices, soda etc.

These are safe for human consumption but not humans animals because our livers can quickly metabolize the substances in the likes of chocolate like theobromine. Cats and Dogs cannot metabolize theobromine as quickly as our so it accumulates in their bodies, thus making it fatal for animals.

 

51 minutes ago, Quackers101 said:

Also how we are already accepting toxic chemicals in our foods or rather harmful foods, although some are not as toxic to us as they are to animals.

I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of Paleo diet vs Atkins vs standard diet, but we as a species have been ingesting toxic substances since the beginning of Homo sapiens in Africa, until our ancestors moved out of Africa 270,000 years ago. There is such a thing as LD₅₀ or median lethal dose for most substances. Basically, an excess of everything is bad even water. Scientists are constantly studying the effects of many food stuffs especially food preservatives and established a safe upper limit. Some vaccines like the MMR use extremely minute quantities of thimerosal as a preservative which led to the controversy started by Andrew Wakefield that MMR causes autism, despite the multiple studies refuting his contentions. It has became one of the egregious theses that fuels the anti-vaxxing movement. In response, pharma companies stopped using thimerosal as a preservative and instead use single use syringes which eliminates the need for it.

 

As for me who went vegan for a whole month for health reasons, I definitely wouldn't eat bacons, salchichas, and any other preserved food with pink salt even if I go back to eating meat.

Edited August 2, 2021 by captain_to_fire

[Quackers101]

3 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

These are safe for human consumption but not humans is because our livers can quickly metabolize the substances in the likes of chocolate like theobromine. Cats and Dogs cannot metabolize theobromine as quickly as our so it accumulates in their bodies, thus making it fatal for animals.

but it can still be bad in "small" doses, maybe not lethal though in some of them. also soda, due to the gasses, I think not everyone are safe to those gasses and can create quite the harm. Just not sure how harmful it is though, and was talked about some gasses could go to the head in some people casing issues :U

3 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

but we as a species have been ingesting toxic substances since the beginning of Homo sapiens in Africa, until our ancestors moved out of Africa 270,000 years ago. There is such a thing as LD₅₀ or median lethal dose for most substances.

yes, which makes the whole "this is toxic and all vaccines and get it the natural way by buying our products" seem a bit...

[captain_to_fire]

26 minutes ago, Quackers101 said:

yes, which makes the whole "this is toxic and all vaccines and get it the natural way by buying our products" seem a bit...

Many TCAM practitioners can be quite disingenuous if you ask me whenever they lump all allopathic doctors as big pharma shills who treats everyone with a cookie cutter guideline, when in fact they themselves are doing it much worse. So many of these TCAM adherents would treat a patient with the same concoction of herbs or treat a single  plant extract as a panacea. It is true that not all patients with the same illness should be treated the same way, and that is where proper patient history comes in. As far as I know, TCAM practitioners have their own lobbying groups in the US Congress. [here] [here]

 

TCAM practitioners often cite that natural products are better than allopathic medicines because they're apparently safer because they're natural, when in fact this contention stands on thin ice. If that was true, then we can claim that Ma Juang     or Yohimbine are a safe weight loss herbal supplement (which they are not). Hence, it constitutes the logical fallacy appeal to nature. Pharmaceutical companies especially multinational ones are known for being greedy no doubt about that, but as a company the last thing I want is a scandal where a drug released to the market caused multiple deaths in a number of hundreds to thousands or not being better than placebo, or a drug that caused defects and disabilities. That is where regulations come in. As a matter of fact, a lot of experimental and candidate drugs never made its way to the masses and hospitals because they are either ineffective, dangerous, or both. Also, there is such a thing as Mexico Principles that pharmaceutical companies should follow.

[Andreas Lilja]

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-moderna-raises-prices-its-covid-19-vaccines-eu-ft-2021-08-01/

 

Not helping the conspiracy theories.

 

But yeah if someone makes a dime there's something nefarious at play obviously.