COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[dalekphalm]

42 minutes ago, WindirBear said:

WOW. Everyone here is in favor of wearing masks.

As they should be, yes.

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I have to say I am too, but Im more in support of freedom of choice.

Freedom of choice is about things that only affect yourself. Your freedom to choose stops when that choice negatively affects others.

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Yes folks, I'd prefer to not wear a mask!

No one wants to wear a mask. I do it every day because it's the right thing to do, and it's a very very minimal burden.

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Covid itself sucks but I'm young, I'm not too afraid of a small chance of dying.

This is misguided at best - even if you have a small chance of dying, you have a larger chance of getting lifelong complications to your health - such as lung scarring.

 

Then there's the fact that even if you do get it and don't die (and don't get any complications), you still have a large risk of passing it onto someone who might well die or get complications.

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As young men and woman we ought to encourage the old and sick to stay home. I have a ton to say about the situation but I'm not a very good writer and I'm working

hope this creates controversy >:D

It's all well and good to tell the old and sick to stay home - and they should, as much as they can. But sometimes they cannot. Due to that, we should do our best to protect them by wearing masks and social distancing.

 

You seem to have your heart in the right place, but no one wants to wear a mask. We do so because it helps.

[Nowak]

10 hours ago, Orange1 said:

That is crazy, I'd pull my kids out right away!

If I had kids I'd do the same! Reopening schools when we haven't even left the first wave is madness.

[WindirBear]

1 hour ago, wkdpaul said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Parideboy said:

 

 

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

 

Guys, I understand the statistics. I understand wearing a mask is like nothing to you. I understand the prevention of others getting sick. I GET IT, YES! There is nothing wrong with anyone legitimately being afraid/loathing the thought of getting sick or worse. I believe people should also take responsibilities for their own health as well. To avoid a large debate on this guy's, let's agree to disagree! I also want to let it be known that these are MY OWN opinions as I don't listen to the rhetoric of anti maskers.

[Orange1]

1 hour ago, Nowak said:

If I had kids I'd do the same! Reopening schools when we haven't even left the first wave is madness.

They had 4 or 5 months to put in place an online program

They had 4 or 5 months to put in place a sanitizing program

They had 4 or 5 months to hire additional teachers for reduced classes

 

No one did anything in those 4 or 5 months. Its crazy how the government works, but whats to be expected thats just how they are.... incompetent. If I had the money, I would have gotten a schooling pod, hire your own teacher for a grand or two a month and divide by 3 or 4 kids parents or if richer one teacher for my kids alone. 

[WkdPaul]

11 minutes ago, WindirBear said:

Guys, I understand the statistics. I understand wearing a mask is like nothing to you. I understand the prevention of others getting sick. I GET IT, YES! There is nothing wrong with anyone legitimately being afraid/loathing the thought of getting sick or worse. I believe people should also take responsibilities for their own health as well. To avoid a large debate on this guy's, let's agree to disagree! I also want to let it be known that these are MY OWN opinions as I don't listen to the rhetoric of anti maskers.

Well, you did say that you're wearing a mask, so I'm not sure what is the issue. 

 

Like we said, we don't WANT to wear a mask, like at all. But wearing one, social distancing and washing your hands frequently is just making sure the people around you won't get sick. So I don't get how that's controversial?

 

Again, we're not saying wearing a mask is fun or great, but it's just the right thing to do.

 

My question is, what do you mean about it "being a choice" ? Because yeah, you can 100% choose not to wear one, but companies have since made rules, and as such, it's now "no shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service", and IMO that's fair. Because while it's your choice not to wear a mask, the people around you don't have the choice about you not wearing one.

 

It's like saying that in public, you prefer to sneeze without covering your mouth ... yeah, that's your choice, but do the people around you when you sneeze have any choice about it ???

Edited November 10, 2020 by wkdpaul

[Nowak]

2 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

Like we said, we don't WANT to wear a mask, like at all. But wearing one, social distancing and washing your hands frequently is just making sure the people around you won't get sick. So I don't get how that's controversial?

People don't like being told what to do, I guess, even if it's something that would help everyone. It's actually awful.

[dalekphalm]

20 minutes ago, WindirBear said:

Guys, I understand the statistics. I understand wearing a mask is like nothing to you. I understand the prevention of others getting sick. I GET IT, YES! There is nothing wrong with anyone legitimately being afraid/loathing the thought of getting sick or worse.

We're in agreement here so far.

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I believe people should also take responsibilities for their own health as well.

This, I don't understand. Taking responsibilities for your own health includes wearing mask. Frankly the only people who shouldn't wear masks are:

1. Those who are physically incapable (children under a certain age, and people who cannot safely put on and remove a mask on their own, and certain people with mental health issues such as sensory overload caused by autism, etc - edited to add, people who have such massive anxiety or claustrophobia that they simply cannot function while wearing one are covered in here too)

2. Those who have a severe medical condition that makes breathing through a mask unsafe (such as severe lung issues, severe COPD, etc) - and let's be clear, this is such a small percentage of the population that I should statistically never encounter a person that can't wear a mask on a daily basis.

 

The #2 are the people that definitely should stay home and isolate as much as possible, as they're the most at risk for dying from COVID though.

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To avoid a large debate on this guy's, let's agree to disagree!

What are we disagreeing about, though? You wear a mask, and you said you don't listen to the anti-mask rhetoric.

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I also want to let it be known that these are MY OWN opinions as I don't listen to the rhetoric of anti maskers.

Do you agree that everyone outside of the people I outlined above should be wearing a mask?

[dalekphalm]

5 minutes ago, Orange1 said:

They had 4 or 5 months to put in place an online program

They had 4 or 5 months to put in place a sanitizing program

They had 4 or 5 months to hire additional teachers for reduced classes

 

No one did anything in those 4 or 5 months. Its crazy how the government works, but whats to be expected thats just how they are.... incompetent. If I had the money, I would have gotten a schooling pod, hire your own teacher for a grand or two a month and divide by 3 or 4 kids parents or if richer one teacher for my kids alone. 

Depends on the school board and country/state/province in question.

 

Here in Ontario, it's kind of a mess, but the teachers had literally zero control over how things were structured. The Provincial Government pretty much forced the process onto them.

1 minute ago, Nowak said:

People don't like being told what to do, I guess, even if it's something that would help everyone. It's actually awful.

A lot of it comes down to a few things:

Being anti-authority is a big one - these are the kind of folks that naturally believe in conspiracies - flat earth, anti-vax, anti-mask, fake moon landing, etc. Because "the man" told them what to do, they naturally distrust what they've been told.

 

Others simply are being selfish, and don't care about the impact on others as long as they can do their thing. Honestly these people are worse because at least the above group as a reason (as illogical as it is) for distrusting the science.

[Orange1]

3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Here in Ontario, it's kind of a mess, but the teachers had literally zero control over how things were structured. The Provincial Government pretty much forced the process onto them.

Thats pretty much across the board, because most school boards have unionized teachers which the union puts a huge wrinkle in things which is typical.

 

Second part, people are selfish and fed up with covid.

 

 

 

 

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, Orange1 said:

Thats pretty much across the board, because most school boards have unionized teachers which the union puts a huge wrinkle in things which is typical.

Sorry I'm not sure what the Teacher unions have to do with here? The unions didn't make the rules regarding COVID teaching. They fight for the rights of the teachers and the students - including the safety of both.

 

I guess that puts a wrinkle in the Provincial Government's plans to just force the teachers to do unsafe things, though.

1 minute ago, Orange1 said:

Second part, people are selfish and fed up with covid.

COVID fatigue is real - good people who believe in the science are getting complacent, because it's going on for so long. Not much we can do about that but try and help each other stay in good spirits.

 

The selfish people though just piss me off.

[WkdPaul]

10 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Depends on the school board and country/state/province in question.

 

Here in Ontario, it's kind of a mess, but the teachers had literally zero control over how things were structured. The Provincial Government pretty much forced the process onto them.

Pretty much the same thing here in Qc, they forced this "class bubble" thing, one class isn't going to interact with other classes, but then the teens from all different classes are hanging out together before and after school without wearing masks, I remember hearing radio interviews, the teens were basically laughing while telling the reporter that they don't wear masks when staff isn't around, that they hug each other, they're friends after all and it's fine, right ???

 

I facepalm'd hard, then remembered https://www.reddit.com/r/KidsAreFuckingStupid/ is a thing ...

 

 

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A lot of it comes down to a few things:

Being anti-authority is a big one - these are the kind of folks that naturally believe in conspiracies - flat earth, anti-vax, anti-mask, fake moon landing, etc. Because "the man" told them what to do, they naturally distrust what they've been told.

 

Others simply are being selfish, and don't care about the impact on others as long as they can do their thing. Honestly these people are worse because at least the above group as a reason (as illogical as it is) for distrusting the science.

I feel like some is also "environmental / social" ignorance (not wishful). If you're not into conspiracies, but the people around you are, or are just strongly distrustful of authorities, you'll be in a bubble where you'll mostly hear those counter arguments, and if you're never faced with anything opposing those opinions and points of vues, it's kinda hard to see the wohle picture.

Edited November 10, 2020 by wkdpaul

[Orange1]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

The unions didn't make the rules

The unions have a lot of power!

 

You didnt hear the teachers union in Ontario make a huge curfuffle?

The rest of Canada sure did, made national news.

 

 

 

 

 

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, Orange1 said:

The unions have a lot of power!

As they should - teachers are some of the most crucial employees of any country.

1 minute ago, Orange1 said:

You didnt hear the teachers union in Ontario make a huge curfuffle?

They made a stink, but that doesn't mean they actually influenced the Government's decisions much.

 

[PhantomJaguarr]

Just received the announcement today that we are going back to the most strictest purple tier of restrictions. Don’t think most restaurants will follow through with reclosing for indoor dining. 
 

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-11-10/california-coronavirus-cases-climb-more-counties-expected-stricter-reopenings

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, PhantomJaguar77 said:

Just received the announcement today that we are going back to the most strictest purple tier of restrictions. Don’t think most restaurants will follow through with reclosing for indoor dining. 
 

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-11-10/california-coronavirus-cases-climb-more-counties-expected-stricter-reopenings

I know our cases are climbing but seeing how the governor's orders were struck down by the courts, I have no clue what's going to happen. I just know a lot of people are lying when it comes to give info on contact tracing if they eat in. We pretty much are back to carry out only in my family. 

[PhantomJaguarr]

8 hours ago, Donut417 said:

I know our cases are climbing but seeing how the governor's orders were struck down by the courts, I have no clue what's going to happen. I just know a lot of people are lying when it comes to give info on contact tracing if they eat in. We pretty much are back to carry out only in my family. 

Even the governor of Utah caved and issued a statewide order to wear masks. Although it took their state’s healthcare system to be overwhelmed, which is disgusting.

[WkdPaul]

How are people still ignoring this

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-cases/u-s-reports-more-than-100000-covid-19-cases-for-seventh-day-in-a-row-idUSKBN27R09T?__twitter_impression=true&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=twitter

 

100,000+ cases per day, 1400+ deaths per day ... at 328 millions and an average daily infection of 100,000 people, heard immunity (if it was real and possible), would take 8.9 years, and that would be 4,592,000 million dead (at an average of 1400 per day).

 

How about just wearing a mask ?

[GuacInWhereSunDontShine]

2 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

How are people still ignoring this

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-cases/u-s-reports-more-than-100000-covid-19-cases-for-seventh-day-in-a-row-idUSKBN27R09T?__twitter_impression=true&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=twitter

 

100,000+ cases per day, 1400+ deaths per day ... at 328 millions and an average daily infection of 100,000 people, heard immunity (if it was real and possible), would take 8.9 years, and that would be 4,592,000 million dead (at an average of 1400 per day).

 

How about just wearing a mask ?

I have a coworker who refuses to wear her mask, and she makes a big deal about it when I ask her to put it on. It's just selfishness at this point, it's beyond ridiculous. 

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, wkdpaul said:

How are people still ignoring this

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-cases/u-s-reports-more-than-100000-covid-19-cases-for-seventh-day-in-a-row-idUSKBN27R09T?__twitter_impression=true&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=twitter

 

100,000+ cases per day, 1400+ deaths per day ... at 328 millions and an average daily infection of 100,000 people, heard immunity (if it was real and possible), would take 8.9 years, and that would be 4,592,000 million dead (at an average of 1400 per day).

 

How about just wearing a mask ?

At least we're finally seeing promising results from vaccines. The Pfizer one looks quite good - if their claims can be verified (90% immunity in test patients), as does the Oxford one.

 

One thing people seem to be misunderstanding about the vaccine candidates is immunity length. A lot of news orgs reported headlines like "Vaccine candidate only provides 5 months of immunity!" when in reality it should say "Vaccine candidate provides immunity - we gave it to them 5 months ago and they're still immune".

 

We won't know long term immunity for years to come, since no one has been vaccinated for that long yet, but so far, things are looking good. I'm not even seeing signs that it'll be some kind of seasonal vaccine.

 

It'll probably be a good 6 months though before regular people can get it, assuming it's approved soon.

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, Sinsue said:

I have a coworker who refuses to wear her mask, and she makes a big deal about it when I ask her to put it on. It's just selfishness at this point, it's beyond ridiculous. 

That's not cool at all.

 

What kind of work do you do?

[ewitte]

I find it amazing how human rights violations, censorship, discrimination and pointing out the OBVIOUS is considered "political" or "conspiracy theory" people have been TRAINED well...  People don't know how to critically think any more without everyone telling them what to think...

[WkdPaul]

2 minutes ago, ewitte said:

I find it amazing how human rights violations and pointing out the OBVIOUS is considered "political" or "conspiracy theory"

What human rights violations ????

[dalekphalm]

3 minutes ago, ewitte said:

I find it amazing how human rights violations, censorship, discrimination and pointing out the OBVIOUS is considered "political" or "conspiracy theory" people have been TRAINED well...  People don't know how to critically think any more without everyone telling them what to think...

Can you elaborate? The vast majority of countries have existing mechanisms as part of their core laws (eg: The Constitution) allowing certain restrictions in the face of an imminent crisis - including, but not limited to, global pandemics.

 

It's not discrimination to say "You must wear a mask to go in this business". It's not censorship for private entities such as LTT Forums or Twitter to exercise their free right to enterprise to label conspiracy minded posts as possible misinformation.

 

There's nothing inherently political about COVID-19, and there shouldn't be anything political about wearing masks and following guidelines set down by infectious disease experts.

[ewitte]

4 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

What human rights violations ????

People only see what they want to see and believe what they are told to believe... Have to open your eyes and your mind.  I've long given up convincing people of what is right in front of them...

 

Also the math doesn't lie people just fall for the fear porn tactics on TV...

[GuacInWhereSunDontShine]

4 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

That's not cool at all.

 

What kind of work do you do?

I'm working as a teller at my local bank right now, since I am a student. Small town Missouri isn't the best to work in honestly. 

 

5 minutes ago, ewitte said:

I find it amazing how human rights violations, censorship, discrimination and pointing out the OBVIOUS is considered "political" or "conspiracy theory" people have been TRAINED well...  People don't know how to critically think any more without everyone telling them what to think...

Preventing the spread of a deadly illness isn't a human rights violation.