COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[Parideboy]

Those are the basic principles of globalization...

22 hours ago, sora.sky said:

Pre-COVID it was stupid easy to move about between countries if you wanted to.

As it should be. Pre COVID I could drive all over Europe if I wanted to. And as long as I'm not breaking any laws, there's nothing wrong with it.

22 hours ago, sora.sky said:

especially Americans, don't do that and just travel for the sake of fake points on social media or to cross things off their "bucket list"

If I want to take a photo of the Eiffel's Tower I should be able to, without learning a single thing about their culture.

 

I've traveled a decent amount and I've learned only something about American culture, because I decided to live in the States for about 1 month. (loved it btw)

You can't compare the turist that wants to see "insert point of interest here" to one that wants to learn another country's culture.

 

31 minutes ago, Benji said:

Ah, well. You can really tell that people are going crazy again now that the second wave basically started "officially". The hoarding starts again and a lot of stores are VERY limited in terms of noodles, flour and toilet paper. What the hell do people want with tons of toilet paper? They should still have tons of it left from the last wave.

Still nothing here aswell. In particular, the toilet paper thing didn't seem to have an effect at all.

[SpikeSpiegel]

https://www.foxnews.com/health/human-coronaviruses-inactivated-mouthwash-oral-rinses-study

 

Quote

Human coronaviruses ‘inactivated’ by mouthwash, oral rinses: study

The study's results were published in the Journal of Medical Virology

A new study conducted by researchers at the Penn State College of Medicine has found that a common dental item can inactivate human coronaviruses: mouthwash and oral rinses. 

 

For the study, the results of which were published in the Journal of Medical Virology, researchers tested various oral and nasopharyngeal rinses — which included a 1% solution of baby shampoo, a neti pot, peroxide sore-mouth cleansers, and mouthwashes — to determine how well they inactivated human coronaviruses. 

 

“While we wait for a vaccine to be developed, methods to reduce transmission are needed,” Meyers said in a statement. “The products we tested are readily available and often already part of people’s daily routines.” (iStock)

The baby shampoo solution, “which is often used by head and neck doctors to rinse the sinuses,” the researchers noted in a news release regarding the findings, was particularly effective; the solution inactivated “greater than 99.9% of human coronavirus after a two-minute contact time,” they said. 

The mouthwash and oral rinses were also efficacious, they found: "Many inactivated greater than 99.9% of virus after only 30 seconds of contact time and some inactivated 99.99% of the virus after 30 seconds.”

USING MOUTHWASH AFTER EXERCISE HAS THIS BIZARRE EFFECT ON BLOOD PRESSURE, STUDY CLAIMS

More specifically, researchers “used a test to replicate the interaction of the virus in the nasal and oral cavities with the rinses and mouthwashes,” as the nasal and oral cavities are thought to be main points of entry for human coronaviruses, including SARS-CoV-2, better known as COVID-19. Though the researchers didn’t specifically test SARS-CoV-2 in the study, the novel virus is genetically similar to the other human coronaviruses tested, leading the researchers to hypothesize that the results would be similar. 

A strain of human coronavirus was mixed with “baby shampoo solutions, various peroxide antiseptic rinses and various brands of mouthwash,” allowing the solutions to interact with the virus for different amounts of time, including 30 seconds, one minute, and two minutes. The solutions were then diluted to “prevent further virus inactivation,” they wrote. 

“To measure how much virus was inactivated, the researchers placed the diluted solutions in contact with cultured human cells. They counted how many cells remained alive after a few days of exposure to the viral solution and used that number to calculate the amount of human coronavirus that was inactivated as a result of exposure to the mouthwash or oral rinse that was tested,” per the news release. 

COVID-19 TRANSMISSION COULD BE PREVENTED BY MOUTHWASH, STUDY SUGGESTS

Lead study author Craig Meyers, a distinguished professor of microbiology and immunology and obstetrics and gynecology, said the results show that the amount of virus (viral load)  in an infected person’s mouth could be reduced by using these common over-the-counter products, ultimately helping to reduce the spread of the novel virus. 

“While we wait for a vaccine to be developed, methods to reduce transmission are needed,” Meyers said in a statement. “The products we tested are readily available and often already part of people’s daily routines.”

The team’s findings bolster past research that also looked at how oral rinses and mouthwashes may be able to reduce the viral load of human coronaviruses. For instance, a study published in the scientific journal Function in May also concluded that mouthwash could play a role in preventing the transmission of the novel coronavirus. 

CLICK HERE FOR COMPLETE  CORONAVIRUS COVERAGE

Additionally, a more recent study published in The Journal of Infectious Diseases came to a similar conclusion. Meyers said that his findings add to this research, noting that his team evaluated the solutions at longer contact times in addition to studying over-the-counter products and nasal rinses that were not evaluated in the other study.

“People who test positive for COVID-19 and return home to quarantine may possibly transmit the virus to those they live with,” said Meyers. “Certain professions including dentists and other health care workers are at a constant risk of exposure. Clinical trials are needed to determine if these products can reduce the amount of virus COVID-positive patients or those with high-risk occupations may spread while talking, coughing or sneezing. Even if the use of these solutions could reduce transmission by 50%, it would have a major impact.”

 

[Andreas Lilja]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/health/covid-response-deaths-columbia-report/index.html

 

 

Ouch.

[Donut417]

12 hours ago, Andreas Lilja said:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/health/covid-response-deaths-columbia-report/index.html

 

 

Ouch.

Thats what happens when you dont have a unified response. Also I blame people who dont believe in science. I know our numbers in Michigan are going up, but due to the lack of testing during the beginning of this whole thing, its hard to say if we are still doing good or very badly. The fact is now that we have more tests, we are bound to have higher numbers, the question is, are those numbers higher than what we had at the beginning? We likely will never know. 

 

I expect things to get worse however. The governors executive orders being over turned by the courts dont help matters any. I know she managed to get more money for unemployment insurance, but the state will eventually run out of money to be able to provide that. Plus a lot of essential workers are pissed that they kinda got the screwgie when all those people on unemployment got the extra $600 ish on top of what they collected in unemployment benefits. 

[dalekphalm]

2 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Thats what happens when you dont have a unified response. Also I blame people who dont believe in science. I know our numbers in Michigan are going up, but due to the lack of testing during the beginning of this whole thing, its hard to say if we are still doing good or very badly. The fact is now that we have more tests, we are bound to have higher numbers, the question is, are those numbers higher than what we had at the beginning? We likely will never know. 

 

I expect things to get worse however. The governors executive orders being over turned by the courts dont help matters any. I know she managed to get more money for unemployment insurance, but the state will eventually run out of money to be able to provide that. Plus a lot of essential workers are pissed that they kinda got the screwgie when all those people on unemployment got the extra $600 ish on top of what they collected in unemployment benefits. 

Here in Ontario during the heart of the lockdowns, most major retail chains that remained open (mostly Grocery stores) paid a pandemic bonus pay to all of their employees that were considered front-line essential workers.

 

Most of that has stopped by now - but it was a good gesture.

[PhantomJaguarr]

Theme parks here in my state won’t be able to reopen until we reach the yellow tier. Some say that’ll take like a year to reach. Of course Disney is being salty about it.

[WkdPaul]

Another study hinting that "heard immunity" isn't a thing with COVID-19

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2772148

 

[Donut417]

8 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

Another study hinting that "heard immunity" isn't a thing with COVID-19

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2772148

 

Probably because it keeps mutating. 

[sub68]

On 10/21/2020 at 9:06 PM, CalintzJerevinan said:

by researchers at the Penn State College of Medicine

well looks like my city's college is in international news for a good reason

[Nowak]

On 10/17/2020 at 9:26 PM, wkdpaul said:

That's an unknown, there are more and more cases of reinfection.

 

COVID-19 is a coronavirus, same family of virus as the influenza (but not the same in term of symptoms, gravity of mortality), we have a limited immunity to those, that's why we require yearly vaccines. COVID-19 might be the same for our immune system, where it only offers a limited short term immunity.

I know someone who's been reinfected after 3 other family members in their house tested positive. It's entirely possible that it does work like other coronaviruses and will require yearly immunizations to it to ward it off.

 

There are still cases of SARS and MERS, even though the pandemics those caused are long over. Human immunity to coronaviruses isn't permanent like it is with some other viruses.

 

On 10/17/2020 at 9:26 PM, wkdpaul said:

After looking it up, PragerU is a poor media source with a bad track record and a heavy neoconservative bias. So no thanks to this channel.

PragerU is best described as "conservative American propaganda", but that's beyond the scope of this thread. Either way, it's best to dismiss them as an actual source.

[Donut417]

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/defenders/2020/10/21/menards-security-guards-faces-charges-in-2nd-incident-involving-injured-customers/

 

This was reported on the news a few days ago. 

[dalekphalm]

I actually just did some training on COVID-19 and dealing with "problematic people" (aka: people who don't want to wear a mask).

 

The training was provided by an American training firm, so it specifically focused on the ADA (though the AODA - Ontario's version, is functionally very similar). The first thing they said is that while some people may have a legitimate medical requirement that they cannot wear a mask, the ADA does not inherently let them just go wherever they want without wearing one.

 

Specifically, the ADA forces the business (whether it's a Library or a Mall or a Corner Store, etc) to offer reasonable alternatives.

 

That can include things like: Virtual service (call us or Skype us), curbside pickup, etc. You can't force someone to wear a mask, but you can decide to not let them in, after you've offered them a reasonable alternative.

 

There definitely are a (very very very small) group of people who cannot wear a mask due to a medical issue (disability, etc). But those people are generally also at extremely high risk for complications. It's in everyone's interest to give these people alternatives so that they don't have to go into a store without a mask.

[crazzyman]

3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

 

That can include things like: Virtual service (call us or Skype us), curbside pickup, etc. You can't force someone to wear a mask, but you can decide to not let them in, after you've offered them a reasonable alternative.

 

Only to get hit with a lawsuit if they are a public business.

[dalekphalm]

Just now, crazzyman said:

Only to get hit with a lawsuit if they are a public business.

Wrong.

 

Well okay, maybe not wrong - since anyone can bring a lawsuit, even over stupid things that they will lose over.

 

But more specifically, if you documented the incident properly, and you offered the person a reasonable alternative, you'll win that lawsuit.

[crazzyman]

12 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Wrong.

 

Well okay, maybe not wrong - since anyone can bring a lawsuit, even over stupid things that they will lose over.

 

But more specifically, if you documented the incident properly, and you offered the person a reasonable alternative, you'll win that lawsuit.

Maybe in candida, but here in the US we have a few demographics they can't use virtual service. So it you are offering others the chance to walk in and do business everyone has to have the same options. Singling one out for not wearing a mask, be it medical or religion resins and making them have to due things virtual would not end well more so if they are in a protected group that can't de things virtual like the Amish, Mennonite or ultra orthodox. This is why almost no store in the US will enforce masking wearing.

[Donut417]

21 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

There definitely are a (very very very small) group of people who cannot wear a mask due to a medical issue (disability, etc). But those people are generally also at extremely high risk for complications. It's in everyone's interest to give these people alternatives so that they don't have to go into a store without a mask.

The problem is not the people who have legitimate conditions. The problem is the ass holes who dont have conditions but claim the do. The fact is they have offered alternative ways to shop, but these people still go to the stores and do what ever they want, because they are just those kind of people. 

 

To me if a store asks you to leave. You LEAVE. Or they need to start calling the police and getting charges filed. When asked to leave and refusing Im pretty sure thats criminal trespass. Its a felony and thats pretty serious. But we are currently in serious times. 

[dalekphalm]

22 hours ago, crazzyman said:

Maybe in candida, but here in the US we have a few demographics they can't use virtual service.

Virtual services was but one example. The business only has to offer them a reasonable alternative. What that alternative is, really depends on the business itself and it’s resources. 

22 hours ago, crazzyman said:

So it you are offering others the chance to walk in and do business everyone has to have the same options.

This is not even remotely true. 
 

You are offering to let people come in WITH A MASK. If they cannot or will not wear a mask, you are not under obligation to let them in anyway. 

22 hours ago, crazzyman said:

Singling one out for not wearing a mask, be it medical or religion resins and making them have to due things virtual would not end well more so if they are in a protected group that can't de things virtual like the Amish, Mennonite or ultra orthodox.

Again you seem to be fixated on virtual.

 

For example, Amish could have a curbside pickup arranged. This would allow them to retrieve whatever it was, without having to put on a mask, and without endangering staff and other customers. 
 

Depending on the service, you could arrange a specific one on one meeting with them in an isolated room with room to socially distance so that others are not put at risk. Or you could do it outside, weather permitting. There are almost always options available that don’t involve just giving in to anti-maskers. 

 

Though to be honest I haven’t seen anything that says Amish can’t wear masks.

22 hours ago, crazzyman said:

This is why almost no store in the US will enforce masking wearing.

They should though. 
 

22 hours ago, Donut417 said:

The problem is not the people who have legitimate conditions. The problem is the ass holes who dont have conditions but claim the do. The fact is they have offered alternative ways to shop, but these people still go to the stores and do what ever they want, because they are just those kind of people. 

I agree - those people are the worst. And part of the problem is some stores just give in and let them do it instead of standing up for the health of their staff and other customers. 

22 hours ago, Donut417 said:

 To me if a store asks you to leave. You LEAVE. Or they need to start calling the police and getting charges filed. When asked to leave and refusing Im pretty sure thats criminal trespass. Its a felony and thats pretty serious. But we are currently in serious times. 

Agreed. As long as they’ve offered a reasonable alternative, they can totally call the police if the person refuses to leave. Though that should of course be the last resort.

[Nowak]

Study in the UK basically confirms it. Antibodies drop a few months after infection, allowing repeated COVID infections.

 

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-26/covid-19-antibody-levels-reduce-over-time-study-finds

 

Don't think that herd immunity is possible with COVID.

[Donut417]

3 minutes ago, Nowak said:

Don't think that herd immunity is possible with COVID.

Well considering that we have several strains now, COVID is going to be like the "Flu". We will likely need to be vaccinated each year and they will have to figure out how many strains and how to vaccinate for them. I know with the Flu, medical professionals try to do their best to figure out what strains will be active on a given year. Some times they do good and some times they dont. I figure the same will be with COVID. 

[Orange1]

On 3/23/2020 at 3:05 PM, 3 Lions said:

To all forum members located in the UK...

I like to shop 35 miles away, will that be a problem?

[Nowak]

Just now, Donut417 said:

Well considering that we have several strains now, COVID is going to be like the "Flu". We will likely need to be vaccinated each year and they will have to figure out how many strains and how to vaccinate for them. I know with the Flu, medical professionals try to do their best to figure out what strains will be active on a given year. Some times they do good and some times they dont. I figure the same will be with COVID. 

I've heard things about there being another strain detected in Houston, TX, so yeah. There's gonna be different strains of COVID too.

 

And yeah, I'm gonna agree with the theory that we'll need yearly immunizations to keep COVID under control. That's how it works with other diseases caused by coronaviruses.

[Orange1]

The anti maskers and covid is a hoax crowd is a strange crowd. Havent been paying attention other then the circus going on in the states on tv and news compared to canada's low #'s of infections.

[Donut417]

5 minutes ago, Orange1 said:

The anti maskers and covid is a hoax crowd is a strange crowd. Havent been paying attention other then the circus going on in the states on tv and news compared to canada's low #'s of infections.

Are we at least providing great entertainment for you? 

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

Well considering that we have several strains now, COVID is going to be like the "Flu". We will likely need to be vaccinated each year and they will have to figure out how many strains and how to vaccinate for them. I know with the Flu, medical professionals try to do their best to figure out what strains will be active on a given year. Some times they do good and some times they dont. I figure the same will be with COVID. 

Fortunately that’s not likely to be an issue. The way that covid-19 infects a cell is very specific and does not change with mutation. Any mutations that do happen are very unlikely to affect the efficacy of any vaccine. 
 

The immunity not lasting is definitely a much more realistic concern. 

[imreloadin]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

Well considering that we have several strains now, COVID is going to be like the "Flu". We will likely need to be vaccinated each year and they will have to figure out how many strains and how to vaccinate for them. I know with the Flu, medical professionals try to do their best to figure out what strains will be active on a given year. Some times they do good and some times they dont. I figure the same will be with COVID. 

We just have to get to the point where it's "like" common influenza. Diseases evolve to be less lethal as killing your host quickly inhibits spread and thus increases the chances of that variant dying out. The less lethal and debilitating a disease becomes, the more the host is able to be ambulatory and spread the disease. Granted, treatments get better as well as time goes on so by effectively treating the symptoms we effectively extend the lifespan of the more aggressive strains.