Every phone carries the 5 - Snapdragon 865 + 765 announced

[williamcll]

As with previous generations of qualcomm CPUs, the number is added by ten, and the mid-range 765 will also get an improved GPU version named the 765G. This thread will be update if any other new information arises.

Quote

During the first day of their annual Snapdragon Tech Summit, Qualcomm unveiled the names and logos of its 3 new SoCs. The Snapdragon 765 and 765G join the Snapdragon 730 and 710 in the upper mid-range tier of Qualcomm’s chipsets, while the new Snapdragon 865 succeeds the Snapdragon 855 as Qualcomm’s premium mobile SoC. In addition, the company announced a new version of its ultrasonic under-display fingerprint sensor technology: 3D Sonic Max.

 

 

At the keynote event for day 1 of the Tech Summit, Alex Katouzian, SVP and GM of mobile at Qualcomm, announced that the Snapdragon 865 can be paired with Qualcomm’s Snapdragon X55 modem for 4G and 5G connectivity. The advantages of the newer X55 modem over the older X50 modem include being manufactured using a newer, more power efficient process, higher theoretical download and upload speeds, support for standalone (SA) networks in addition to non-standalone (NSA), support for mmWave and sub-6GHz in FDD frequencies, and more bandwidth at sub-6 GHz frequencies. We can expect to see most 2020 Android flagship smartphones utilizing the Snapdragon X55 multi-mode modem along with the new Snapdragon 865. Xiaomi confirmed the upcoming Mi 10 will utilize the Snapdragon 865, while OPPO also confirmed that an upcoming smartphone will launch in Q1 2020 with the new chipset. Motorola is also returning to the flagship scene next year with an unnamed smartphone powered by the 865. Although Qualcomm announced that the Snapdragon 765 and 765G bring “integrated” 5G connectivity (meaning the modem is integrated into the SoC), they did not disclose more details on the modem. Qualcomm had previously announced than an upcoming Snapdragon 700 series (and 600 series) mobile platform will bring integrated 5G connectivity with features such as support for all key regions and frequency bands, TDD and FDD modes, multi-SIM 5G, Dynamic Spectrum Sharing (DSS), and SA and NSA network architectures. Presuming this earlier announcement pertains to the Snapdragon 765 SoC that was teased today, then, we can expect it to be manufactured using a 7nm process technology. Multiple OEMs have confirmed their intentions to utilize the new 7-series 5G platform on their devices, including HMD Global, OPPO, Realme, Redmi, Vivo, Motorola, and LG. We can expect to see product teasers this week followed by product launches later this year and early next year. Already, the Redmi K30 from Xiaomi and the Reno3 Pro 5G from OPPO have been confirmed to use the Snapdragon 765/765G respectively.

 

Lastly, Qualcomm also announced Snapdragon Modular Platforms based on the Snapdragon 865 and Snapdragon 765. According to Qualcomm, these “mobile platform-based modules” are designed to help carriers lower the development costs of commercializing new 5G mobile and IoT devices. So far, Verizon and Vodafone have announced support for the certification program.

More details of the Snapdragon 865 and Snapdragon 765 will be shared during day 2 of the Tech Summit.

For your information, a Chinese user leaked some specs of the 865 last month on WeiBo: around 20% increase in both CPU and GPU while having the same CPU clocks as the 855 (not the 855+), also built on the TSMC 7nm node.

Source: https://www.xda-developers.com/qualcomm-snapdragon-865-snapdragon-765-5g-3d-sonic-max-snapdragon-tech-summit/

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Qualcomm-offers-a-sneak-peak-at-the-Snapdragon-865-and-Snapdragon-765-765G-Mobile-Platforms-with-integrated-5G.445467.0.html

https://www.weibo.com/u/6048569942?is_hot=1

Thoughts: Another year, another new line of mobile phones, If I were you I would wait for the 865+ that's definitely going to come out in Q2. Going to see what Samsung is going to counter now that their CPU department is gone.

 

[paddy-stone]

Yeah, I'm holding out for the 865+ or might even leave it another year as my 845 is still quick enough for now... plus I don't need the added 5G support yet. It'll be at the very least another year or 2, if not longer before we see any 5G where I live.

If the right phone comes along I might bite though. I am a fan of Xiaomi phones in general, and they have been releasing some good spec phones for very good prices lately.

[SupaKomputa]

do we need 5g?

4g is pretty fast, no lag watching 1080p video is enough for me.

[williamcll]

10 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

do we need 5g?

4g is pretty fast, no lag watching 1080p video is enough for me.

Most phones are now close to 1440p though.

[.Apex.]

13 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

do we need 5g?

4g is pretty fast, no lag watching 1080p video is enough for me.

No one asked for 5G, we just need better 4G coverage which can easily do 70mb+ from experience, and it has even more potential

[rcmaehl]

1 hour ago, williamcll said:

Most phones are now close to 1440p though.

Eh, I'd say excluding the most expensive of phones, i'd say most are rocking annoying FHD+ resolutions like 1080 x 2340 pixels

[COTG]

1 hour ago, _Syn_ said:

No one asked for 5G, we just need better 4G coverage which can easily do 70mb+ from experience, and it has even more potential

its not really being implemented for consumers right now, because yea at least I personally don't really need anything faster than 4g. there are people willing to pay for it though simply for the sake of having it, and phones nowadays need anything that can differentiate themselves from competitors so they'll offer it 

[Commodus]

Never mind 5G at this stage, I'm curious as to whether or not there are meaningful performance gains.

 

Snapdragons continue to be fast enough, but Qualcomm seems to be slipping behind iPhone CPUs to the point where I wonder if it won't create a functionality gap in time (say, differences in video capture performance).  It needs to move beyond that "like last year's Snapdragon, but mildly faster" cycle that's been true for a few years now.

[Doobeedoo]

Well good for more integrated and efficient 5G modem. 

[pumas]

3 hours ago, SupaKomputa said:

do we need 5g?

4g is pretty fast, no lag watching 1080p video is enough for me.

I agreee, there really isn't a point for 5g. They could be spending more money on perfecting 4g lte and making it literally everywhere around the world because there are still some places that have very poor 4g. 

[Commodus]

4 minutes ago, Pumas_committed_bottleneck said:

I agreee, there really isn't a point for 5g. They could be spending more money on perfecting 4g lte and making it literally everywhere around the world because there are still some places that have very poor 4g. 

There is a point, but the problem is that the benefit isn't overwhelmingly obvious like it was with LTE (where you leapt from "barely functional internet" to "virtually as good as my home internet") and won't really show up until the networks are mature.

 

Sadly, I don't think carriers are likely to make LTE truly ubiquitous simply because of the economics and politics (you can argue that they should spend regardless, I'm just explaining why they don't).  They may feel there are too few customers in a given area for the expense to be worthwhile.  Alternately, regulators may decide that it's a bad idea to expand where cell sites might disrupt the environment.

[Euchre]

I sold and still sell cell phones as part of my work, and I can tell you unequivocally that the deployment of '5G' is for no other reason than marketing. When '4G' was being launched, the term was used pretty loosely, including for HSPA+ (3G GSM on steroids) and WiMAX (WiFi on steroids). It is all just a marketing ploy to 'build excitement' and try to get people to switch carriers, and for carriers to try to stand out in consumer awareness. All the carriers want is to be able to claim to be 'first' in a given technology or feature, and then to have the 'best'. It doesn't matter if it is really of no use to you, as long as they can make you feel like you're getting something from them that nobody else can offer.

 

We needed proper 4G when it was being launched, because we'd already been punishing the old 3G network with usage in place that could easily overload the infrastructure available. Currently, the 4G network technology has plenty of room for the demand, if we just got the deployment of infrastructure up to the technology's full potential. The only reason carriers are migrating their focus to 5G is that marketing angle, and the fact that the 4G networks are 'good enough' to carry the base load we have now, and act as a solid fallback for the gaps in 5G deployment. If carriers were to 'saturate' the capability of 4G before launching any 5G, it'd probably be 2 more years before we saw any real deployment beyond a very select few test markets. T-Mobile's recent claim of 'nationwide 5G' is funny to me, because the map showed that they're finally achieving coverage in the 'dust bowl states', a result of the consolation prize for the failed AT&T buyout. If T-Mobile were really serious about being competitive and providing coverage, they would've done much more to deploy and advertise their expansion in geographic coverage. The fact that there are still holes where you get NO coverage from carriers, and I'm talking about areas larger than a few widely scattered football fields, shows why providers of 'mobile' devices are not all that concerned with actual mobility. I'm fine with the idea of a carrier that can't yet offer the 1-2Gbps 5G in a more populated area, if they make it possible to get 100Mbps in those populated areas while offering complete coverage everywhere else, even if it only offered as little as 6Mbps speeds. That doesn't make for exciting marketing, though.

[RejZoR]

5 hours ago, williamcll said:

Most phones are now close to 1440p though.

Except it just doesn't matter on such ridiculously tiny displays. Somehow 1080p was pinnacle of sharpness on monitors and 32 inch TV's for years and now it's not enough on 5 inch devices. Not to mention most phones have some idiotic resolutions that don't fall into any standard at all. If there wasn't bitrate difference involved with resolution, I bet most people wouldn't be able to tell a difference between 720p and 4K on phones watching video. But hey, lets go 8K on smartphones!!!!1111oneoneone

[DeScruff]

1 minute ago, RejZoR said:

But hey, lets go 8K on smartphones!!!!1111oneoneone

Yeah 8K smartphones! ... Why does my battery life suck?

Seriously 1080p on a screen 3" tall is enough.

[dizmo]

Phone SoCs performance wise are rather nothing. I'm always more interested in the other advancements that come along with the new chipsets, like the much larger fingerprint sensors. Plus two finger authentication will be a nice added touch. 

 

It's odd how there's no integrated 5G on the 865, yet there will be on the 765...a midtier chip. Also, Qualcomm is apparently only offering the X55 with the 865...so flagship will be more power hungry than last year. Looks like a year to skip unless the 865 offers enough energy savings to offset the additional modem. 

 

The 8k video capture and image processing are nice improvements. 

 

6 hours ago, _Syn_ said:

No one asked for 5G, we just need better 4G coverage which can easily do 70mb+ from experience, and it has even more potential

Coverage has nothing to do with the advancement to 5G...different parties. 

5 hours ago, rcmaehl said:

Eh, I'd say excluding the most expensive of phones, i'd say most are rocking annoying FHD+ resolutions like 1080 x 2340 pixels

Haha why is it annoying? I much prefer the 18:9 aspect ratio. 

4 hours ago, Commodus said:

Never mind 5G at this stage, I'm curious as to whether or not there are meaningful performance gains.

 

Snapdragons continue to be fast enough, but Qualcomm seems to be slipping behind iPhone CPUs to the point where I wonder if it won't create a functionality gap in time (say, differences in video capture performance).  It needs to move beyond that "like last year's Snapdragon, but mildly faster" cycle that's been true for a few years now.

I highly doubt the gap will ever get that big. The SD chips can easily handle everything thrown at them today. They've always been behind Apple's silicone. 

2 hours ago, Pumas_committed_bottleneck said:

I agreee, there really isn't a point for 5g. They could be spending more money on perfecting 4g lte and making it literally everywhere around the world because there are still some places that have very poor 4g. 

Perfecting 4g, perhaps, but they have nothing to do with rollout. That's a carrier problem. It's better to be ahead of the curve than have people saying "we need faster speeds!" and the tech not being ready. 

51 minutes ago, Sypran said:

Yeah 8K smartphones! ... Why does my battery life suck?

Seriously 1080p on a screen 3" tall is enough.

Who has a 3" screen? 

No one's pushed to 4k except Sony on a phone. 1440p is better for larger displays when reading text, and there are people that can tell the difference. 

[Commodus]

57 minutes ago, dizmo said:

I highly doubt the gap will ever get that big. The SD chips can easily handle everything thrown at them today. They've always been behind Apple's silicone. 

Probably, but I'm not completely sure.  And the gap wasn't always there; I remember a time when they'd leapfrog each other, and when you could point to areas where Snapdragons had clear advantages.  Now, it's bad enough that the Snapdragon is usually slower than the Apple chip that came before it (let alone the one after) and lacks any clear competitive edge.  You're right that Snapdragons are up to the job right now -- I just wonder what the scenario will look like five or ten years from now.

[DrMacintosh]

10 hours ago, williamcll said:

Most phones are now close to 1440p though

That doesn't mean carriers have any interest in serving more data though. Also most phones can't playback VP9 and can only stream 1080p h.264/5

[DeScruff]

3 hours ago, dizmo said:

Who has a 3" screen? 

No one's pushed to 4k except Sony on a phone. 1440p is better for larger displays when reading text, and there are people that can tell the difference. 

I said 3" tall screen (Thought I guess it could be considered "wide"?). Aaaand I probably shoulda said 2.5" I guesstimated the size of my new phones screen wrong. Oops My bad.

Ever since the notch became a thing, phones have been getting a stupid amount of aspect ratios. Ive seen 16:9, 18:9, 19:9, 19.5:9, 20:9, 21:9, 19:8, exc. So the diagonal measurement is... practically worthless without knowing what aspect ratio.
Hence me giving a height rather then diagonal.

My new phone is a 6.3" screen. Must be chunky like the Galaxy Note 8? I mean they have the same diagonal screensize ya know? Must be massive compared to the 5.5" screen of my old phone, I mean thats a 0.8" difference!
Nope its skinnier, then my old phone (and easier to hold) and much smaller then the Note8, all because its 21:9 vs 16:9.

EDIT: Also I was kinda cheeky about the 8K part. Beyond 1440p on a phone, is just a massive waste of battery. and I think 1080 is good enough for smaller phones.

[captain_to_fire]

10 hours ago, SupaKomputa said:

do we need 5g?

4g is pretty fast, no lag watching 1080p video is enough for me.

Just you wait until they get congested 

[LAwLz]

I always find it hilarious, but also kind of annoying, how people who claim to be PC enthusiasts continues to not get the smartphone space. 

"we don't need 5G" is about as ignorant as saying "we don't need GPUs" back in the 90's. Yes we do need it. Not because 4G is bad today, but because 4G won't be able to handle demands that might crop up in 5-10 years. 

 

Quite frankly, you'd have to be an idiot to be against technological advancements. It's like the morons who said 1GHz CPUs were more than enough back in 2000. 

 

The exact same thing happened with 4G too mind you. People said it wasn't needed because HSPA+ was good enough, that the infrastructure wasn't ready, that it wasn't worth the power consumption, that it was just marketing fluff etc. And yet here we are, 9 years later and the nay sayers have been convinced. 

[WereCatf]

10 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Yes we do need it. Not because 4G is bad today, but because 4G won't be able to handle demands that might crop up in 5-10 years

5G won't be able to handle such demands, either. mmWave 5G can't even penetrate one's hand, so it's entirely useless unless you're standing right next to the fucking tower and the sub-mmWave 5G is barely faster than LTE. It handles congestion better, sure, but...it's only a couple of percent more people per tower, so it's not a magic bullet there, either.

[LAwLz]

The Snapdragon 865 seems nice but nothing amazing. 

 

There should be about a 20% uplift in CPU performance because of the move to A77 cores.

The little cores are the ones in dire need of an update though. Apples little cores are way ahead. 

 

The GPU is about 25% faster which is to be expected. About 35% more efficient too which is nice. 

Something really interesting about the GPU is that the drivers will now be delivered through the Google Play store. This means you will now be able to update the drivers (scheduled to be updated quarterly) without updating the OS. 

Of and it supports 144hz displays now, which we might see in the Galaxy S11 (120hz more likely). 

 

 

The impressive stuff is the memory controller that gets a major uplift (from a maximum of 29.9GBps to 44GBps). 

The NPU gets a large upgrade. From 7 TOPs to 15 TOPs (NPU, CPU and GPU combined). 

 

 

The ISP also gets a massive upgrade, possibly the biggest upgrade of all parts. It now supports a 200MP camera, which should help out with processing speed of the new Samsung 108MP sensor. "zero shutter lag" is still limited to 64 MP though, but it should still be much Farrer than what we see on the redmi note 108MP camera. 

It also supports 8K capturing at 30 fps, or 4k at 120 fps. 

Slo mo at 960 fps is no longer limited to a few seconds either. It can do it sustained. 

 

NO AV1 SUPPORT THOUGHT, WHICH SUCKS BALLS! Guess we'll have to wait until next year for that. 

[WereCatf]

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

NO AV1 SUPPORT THOUGHT, WHICH SUCKS BALLS!

Good catch, I completely forgot to check that. I really, really wish companies would hurry up with support for it!

[dizmo]

On 12/4/2019 at 3:06 PM, Sypran said:

I said 3" tall screen (Thought I guess it could be considered "wide"?). Aaaand I probably shoulda said 2.5" I guesstimated the size of my new phones screen wrong. Oops My bad.

Ever since the notch became a thing, phones have been getting a stupid amount of aspect ratios. Ive seen 16:9, 18:9, 19:9, 19.5:9, 20:9, 21:9, 19:8, exc. So the diagonal measurement is... practically worthless without knowing what aspect ratio.
Hence me giving a height rather then diagonal.

My new phone is a 6.3" screen. Must be chunky like the Galaxy Note 8? I mean they have the same diagonal screensize ya know? Must be massive compared to the 5.5" screen of my old phone, I mean thats a 0.8" difference!
Nope its skinnier, then my old phone (and easier to hold) and much smaller then the Note8, all because its 21:9 vs 16:9.

EDIT: Also I was kinda cheeky about the 8K part. Beyond 1440p on a phone, is just a massive waste of battery. and I think 1080 is good enough for smaller phones.

You must be one of the very few people that bought a Sony phone. How do you like it? The aspect ratio seems....stupid to me. I mean, sure, it makes sense if you're on a smaller size screen, but once you get into the size I'd be after Note size), your phone gets stupidly tall.

On 12/5/2019 at 4:24 AM, LAwLz said:

I always find it hilarious, but also kind of annoying, how people who claim to be PC enthusiasts continues to not get the smartphone space. 

"we don't need 5G" is about as ignorant as saying "we don't need GPUs" back in the 90's. Yes we do need it. Not because 4G is bad today, but because 4G won't be able to handle demands that might crop up in 5-10 years. 

 

Quite frankly, you'd have to be an idiot to be against technological advancements. It's like the morons who said 1GHz CPUs were more than enough back in 2000. 

 

The exact same thing happened with 4G too mind you. People said it wasn't needed because HSPA+ was good enough, that the infrastructure wasn't ready, that it wasn't worth the power consumption, that it was just marketing fluff etc. And yet here we are, 9 years later and the nay sayers have been convinced. 

I've also never understood this, especially when their reasoning is that they want better batteries etc. It's like they can't wrap their heads around the fact that Qualcomm is in the business of SoCs....not batteries. So of course they're not going to be the ones pioneering battery tech.

 

To be fair, 4G was shit in the beginning. You'd easily kill a phone in half a day because of the extra chips and lack of towers resulting in significant battery drain. It was pretty painful. I imagine 5G will be similar, though not as bad since the chips are rather efficient.

On 12/5/2019 at 4:36 AM, WereCatf said:

5G won't be able to handle such demands, either. mmWave 5G can't even penetrate one's hand, so it's entirely useless unless you're standing right next to the fucking tower and the sub-mmWave 5G is barely faster than LTE. It handles congestion better, sure, but...it's only a couple of percent more people per tower, so it's not a magic bullet there, either.

5G is still early, they'll either just throw up tons of antenna, or it will grow into something better.

I remember when 4G was also quite shitty, and service was extremely hard to get consistently. Now it's just a given.

On 12/5/2019 at 4:48 AM, LAwLz said:

The Snapdragon 865 seems nice but nothing amazing. 

 

There should be about a 20% uplift in CPU performance because of the move to A77 cores.

The little cores are the ones in dire need of an update though. Apples little cores are way ahead. 

 

The GPU is about 25% faster which is to be expected. About 35% more efficient too which is nice. 

Something really interesting about the GPU is that the drivers will now be delivered through the Google Play store. This means you will now be able to update the drivers (scheduled to be updated quarterly) without updating the OS. 

Of and it supports 144hz displays now, which we might see in the Galaxy S11 (120hz more likely). 

 

The impressive stuff is the memory controller that gets a major uplift (from a maximum of 29.9GBps to 44GBps). 

The NPU gets a large upgrade. From 7 TOPs to 15 TOPs (NPU, CPU and GPU combined). 

 

The ISP also gets a massive upgrade, possibly the biggest upgrade of all parts. It now supports a 200MP camera, which should help out with processing speed of the new Samsung 108MP sensor. "zero shutter lag" is still limited to 64 MP though, but it should still be much Farrer than what we see on the redmi note 108MP camera. 

It also supports 8K capturing at 30 fps, or 4k at 120 fps. 

Slo mo at 960 fps is no longer limited to a few seconds either. It can do it sustained. 

 

NO AV1 SUPPORT THOUGHT, WHICH SUCKS BALLS! Guess we'll have to wait until next year for that. 

I'm really hoping that they focus on the smaller cores next year, and this year was just them getting up to speed with the larger ones...though, we have yet to see what Apples new chip is like. Someone has to be playing catch up, unfortunately it just seems Qualcomm is going to be the one to fit that slot. I think a lot of people glossed over the little niceties we're getting from the SD865; the camera improvements look huge, and interesting, as do the driver updates for the GPU. The sustained slomo is insane compared to what they had just a year ago, and the seemless picture taking while recording video is also pretty awesome.

[DeScruff]

7 hours ago, dizmo said:

You must be one of the very few people that bought a Sony phone. How do you like it? The aspect ratio seems....stupid to me. I mean, sure, it makes sense if you're on a smaller size screen, but once you get into the size I'd be after Note size), your phone gets stupidly tall.

Actually I got a Moto One Action.
It really is about the same size as my old Moto G4, so its not really in the Note size category. And of course at this event they announced the Motorila One Hyper which has 45W PD charging! - Which woulda been awesome since that means my Laptop charger could quickly charge that thing.
It is kinda pointlessly tall, which makes it slightly cumbersome. but I can't deny how handy it is for some webpages to not have to scroll.
But the ability to take landscape videos while holding the camera in portrait. Awesome. More phones need this feature. Specially if they are just gonna keep putting a million cameras on the thing.