PCIe 5.0 comes to Intel along with a new socket

[Bananasplit_00]

Well I guess 2021 is going to be the year I upgrade my CPU potentially. Said I wasn't going to be upgrading until Sapphire Rapids some years back and I'm sticking too it lol

[Trik'Stari]

7 hours ago, pas008 said:

Single?

Haven't it always been 2 or more?

That was a fluke, at least on the home-user/enthusiast side of things IIRC.

 

This might be different, didn't realize this was enterprise grade equipment.

[Aristotle2019]

Will PCIe 5 come to Intel's standard Core i series ? Or will core i for now be only upgrades to PCIe 4 the new one from AMD

[pas008]

2 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

That was a fluke, at least on the home-user/enthusiast side of things IIRC.

 

This might be different, didn't realize this was enterprise grade equipment.

Mainstream and enthusiast side been 2 or 3 too?

[Trik'Stari]

1 hour ago, pas008 said:

Mainstream and enthusiast side been 2 or 3 too?

I only know of one instance of them having backwards/forwards compatibility with CPU's and motherboards, and that was the Z87 and Z97 chipset.

[pas008]

32 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

I only know of one instance of them having backwards/forwards compatibility with CPU's and motherboards, and that was the Z87 and Z97 chipset.

Multiple chipsets have 2 gens of support

Sandy and ivy

Haswell, dc and broadwell

Sky and kaby

Coffee and refreshes lol

[Trik'Stari]

11 minutes ago, pas008 said:

Multiple chipsets have 2 gens of support

Sandy and ivy

Haswell, dc and broadwell

Sky and kaby

Coffee and refreshes lol

I did say "I only know of". I'm currently stuck with a 7700k and my only upgrade path includes a new motherboard.

 

Or I could go AMD and have much more of an upgrade path.

[Ithanul]

2 hours ago, pas008 said:

Mainstream and enthusiast side been 2 or 3 too?

By what I can see by socket support or so, minimum of two.

If a socket supported a third from Intel, it usually required a newer chipset for support and/or revision to the socket.

In the case of LGA1151, the socket went through a revision and required a new chipset (300 series) for Coffee Lake.

Chipset 100 series of LGA1151 supported both Sky Lake and Kaby Lake (BIOS update to boards).

Chipset 200 series of LGA1151 supported both Sky Lake and Kaby Lake.

 

LGA1150 is similar as well.

8 series chipset supported Haswell and Haswell Refresh (BIOS update to boards).

To use Broadwell required 9 series chipset, and the chipset supported Haswell Refresh.  9 series brought M.2 and Thunderbolt support as well.  Though up to board manufacturer to implement.

[Jito463]

15 hours ago, FezBoy said:

Intel will likely completely skip 4.0.  They are upgrading because AMD upgraded, and they have no reason to update to a previous standard.  (AMD upgraded before 5.0 was finalized.)

They're not only moving to PCIe 5.0 just because of AMD.  As @jasonvp described in the post right above yours, there are technical reasons why it's essential to continue progressing (especially in the server market).  The change would have happened with or without the AMD recovery, the only question is how it will affect the desktop market.  In other words, will we see PCIe 4.0 on the Intel desktop platform, straight to 5.0, or will they stick with 3.0 for the time being?

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

I did say "I only know of". I'm currently stuck with a 7700k and my only upgrade path includes a new motherboard.

 

Or I could go AMD and have much more of an upgrade path.

That sounds about right, the processor is coming up to 3 years old and is coming up to  3 generations old now.   But fair warning, AMD has better long term compatibility, not necessarily a worthwhile upgrade path though.

 

 

 

 

[thechinchinsong]

15 minutes ago, mr moose said:

That sounds about right, the processor is coming up to 3 years old and is coming up to  3 generations old now.   But fair warning, AMD has better long term compatibility, not necessarily a worthwhile upgrade path though.

 

 

 

 

What do you mean by no worthwhile upgrade path?

[Trik'Stari]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

That sounds about right, the processor is coming up to 3 years old and is coming up to  3 generations old now.   But fair warning, AMD has better long term compatibility, not necessarily a worthwhile upgrade path though.

 

 

 

 

Far as I know, most of their current gen beats mine.

 

And I do want to be nice and fresh for Cyberpunk 2077 in 4K.

[mr moose]

28 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Far as I know, most of their current gen beats mine.

 

And I do want to be nice and fresh for Cyberpunk 2077 in 4K.

I didn't mean worthwhile upgrade path in terms of performance against your current hardware,  I meant that AMD's platform does not always provide a worthwhile upgrade path over time. You may be able to buy a CPU in a few years that will work with current AM4 motherboards but there is no guarantee that the upgrade is worthwhile as new features like PCIe5 and DDR5 etc may not be supported by your current motherboard.   Hence why I said they offer long term compatibility but it's not always a worthwhile upgrade.

[pas008]

5 hours ago, Ithanul said:

By what I can see by socket support or so, minimum of two.

If a socket supported a third from Intel, it usually required a newer chipset for support and/or revision to the socket.

In the case of LGA1151, the socket went through a revision and required a new chipset (300 series) for Coffee Lake.

Chipset 100 series of LGA1151 supported both Sky Lake and Kaby Lake (BIOS update to boards).

Chipset 200 series of LGA1151 supported both Sky Lake and Kaby Lake.

 

LGA1150 is similar as well.

8 series chipset supported Haswell and Haswell Refresh (BIOS update to boards).

To use Broadwell required 9 series chipset, and the chipset supported Haswell Refresh.  9 series brought M.2 and Thunderbolt support as well.  Though up to board manufacturer to implement.

9x series supported haswell dc and broadwell right?

 

And x299 will do 3 gens of cpus

[NumLock21]

5 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

I did say "I only know of". I'm currently stuck with a 7700k and my only upgrade path includes a new motherboard.

 

Or I could go AMD and have much more of an upgrade path.

That's because you got the 2nd gen of that specific platform. 1st gen was 6700K with Intel Z68 chipset. It does not matter whether you pick AMD or Intel, both are going down similar paths.

For Intel, new platform comes with a new socket, that will support 2-3 generations of CPUs, before a new platform and socket change. Motherboard makers will make new boards for 2nd gen of CPU based on same socket, with some improvements over the 1st gen board or, add new features. 1st gen boards will support 2nd gen of CPU with a bios update.

AMD on the mainstream side, it's a single socket for the long term, where it will support CPUs based on that socket. But for newer boards, with newer chispets, it will not support older CPUs, even though it uses the same socket.

AMD X570 chipset will not support 1st gen Ryzen CPUs, It won't matter anyway, when you're doing a new build. But for those that already have a 1st gen Ryzen and want to upgrade to the new board (say their board has died or just want the new features), they can't, unless they also buy a new CPU.

[Trik'Stari]

1 hour ago, NumLock21 said:

That's because you got the 2nd gen of that specific platform. 1st gen was 6700K with Intel Z68 chipset. It does not matter whether you pick AMD or Intel, both are going down similar paths.

For Intel, new platform comes with a new socket, that will support 2-3 generations of CPUs, before a new platform and socket change. Motherboard makers will make new boards for 2nd gen of CPU based on same socket, with some improvements over the 1st gen board or, add new features. 1st gen boards will support 2nd gen of CPU with a bios update.

AMD on the mainstream side, it's a single socket for the long term, where it will support CPUs based on that socket. But for newer boards, with newer chispets, it will not support older CPUs, even though it uses the same socket.

AMD X570 chipset will not support 1st gen Ryzen CPUs, It won't matter anyway, when you're doing a new build. But for those that already have a 1st gen Ryzen and want to upgrade to the new board (say their board has died or just want the new features), they can't, unless they also buy a new CPU.

The bigger concern is wanting to get a new CPU and having to buy a new motherboard to do it. How many people are going to run out and get a new motherboard? Especially just for a gaming/daily use rig.

 

Hence, my problem. If I had an OG Ryzen board and wanted to upgrade from first gen, to third, I could. Just by buying the new CPU and using the old one to perform a BIOS update on the board, and then the new CPU would work. Maybe some lesser functionality (lack of PCIE 5.0 or whatever) but I could still get an overall performance upgrade by going from 1st gen ryzen CPU to 3rd gen.

[Jito463]

1 hour ago, NumLock21 said:

1st gen was 6700K with Intel Z68 chipset.

6th gen was on the 100 series chipset, not the Z68.  That was the 2nd and 3rd gen chips (Sandy/Ivy Bridge).

[NumLock21]

43 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

The bigger concern is wanting to get a new CPU and having to buy a new motherboard to do it. How many people are going to run out and get a new motherboard? Especially just for a gaming/daily use rig.

 

Hence, my problem. If I had an OG Ryzen board and wanted to upgrade from first gen, to third, I could. Just by buying the new CPU and using the old one to perform a BIOS update on the board, and then the new CPU would work. Maybe some lesser functionality (lack of PCIE 5.0 or whatever) but I could still get an overall performance upgrade by going from 1st gen ryzen CPU to 3rd gen.

CPU is rarely upgraded.

 

29 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

6th gen was on the 100 series chipset, not the Z68.  That was the 2nd and 3rd gen chips (Sandy/Ivy Bridge).

Yes you're right. I mixed up in my head that 7700K goes with the Z77 chipset, and that is wrong.

[NumLock21]

43 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

The bigger concern is wanting to get a new CPU and having to buy a new motherboard to do it. How many people are going to run out and get a new motherboard? Especially just for a gaming/daily use rig.

 

Hence, my problem. If I had an OG Ryzen board and wanted to upgrade from first gen, to third, I could. Just by buying the new CPU and using the old one to perform a BIOS update on the board, and then the new CPU would work. Maybe some lesser functionality (lack of PCIE 5.0 or whatever) but I could still get an overall performance upgrade by going from 1st gen ryzen CPU to 3rd gen.

CPU is rarely upgraded.

 

29 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

6th gen was on the 100 series chipset, not the Z68.  That was the 2nd and 3rd gen chips (Sandy/Ivy Bridge).

Yes you're right. I mixed up in my head that 7700K goes with the Z77 chipset, and that is wrong.

[Crunchy Dragon]

Bruh we just got PCIe 4.0

[bcredeur97]

how long before a socket is the size of an ITX motherboard?

[Jito463]

21 hours ago, bcredeur97 said:

how long before a socket is the size of an ITX motherboard?

I thought that was Threadripper. 

[Ithanul]

On 10/20/2019 at 6:04 PM, pas008 said:

9x series supported haswell dc and broadwell right?

 

And x299 will do 3 gens of cpus

I didn't dig to far into the info.  But ,the bit I found, that is the solid info that I posted.

I would have to dig around more to verify if the 9x series of boards supported all three.

 

X299, the LGA 2066, supports Sky Lake-X, Kaby Lake-X, and Cascade Lake-X.

So, actually not a bad HEDT platform as that does give a wide range of chip choice.  Also, one must keep in mind that Xeons, Skylake-W, can be used as well.

 

On 10/21/2019 at 7:07 PM, Jito463 said:

I thought that was Threadripper. 

It sure likes to come close.  I still just go O_O  every time I look at the CPU socket for my two TRs.

Would be dope if AsRock took a go at shoving that into ITX form.  Hell, they did so for the Intel Scaleable Xeons, and I keep wanting that blasted board.  (I like collecting ITX boards like that)

 

Looks at AsRock Rack website.

How the, it is an EYPC on a mini-ITX board.  Drools.

 

I still drool over the xeon boards as well.  The size of that socket is nuts.

Spoiler

 

[alex75871]

LGAOVER9000