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spartaman64

Bloomberg says super micro servers sold to Apple and Amazon contain spy chips, all three companies (and department of Homeland security) deny this

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7 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

I think companies like Apple and Amazon will closely scrutinize hardware sold to them and spy chips will not go unnoticed by their engineers who will probably know the board layout like the back if their hand.

I don't know about Apple, but Amazon is a CIA asset, Jeff Bezos a CIA operative, and all personal data that is gathered from Amazon services and products customers is being compiled into virtual profiles of each individual person and going into CIA servers to create a god-view of society that lets the US government know everything they can about each individual person that uses Amazon services and products.

 

Expect the same from Microsoft services and products, as Microsoft was a willing and eager participant in the illegal PRISM surveillance and personal data-sharing program.

 

Expect the same from Facebook, as Facebook is partnered with the US government through Atlantic Council.

 

The CIA and NSA hack everything, and even intercept servers mid-shipment to install spy chips into them, before they reach their destinations.

 

These companies will of course deny that the hardware running their services is compromised, because the idea shatters consumer confidence and generates huge negative PR. Believe it or not, the general public still just takes as granted that companies understand privacy rights and respect each individual's data and life.

 

But, in reality, many companies wilfully allow the hardware running their services to be compromised because the US government pays them for the access - and those that don't accept the US government's offer have their hardware intercepted mid-delivery, anyway.

 

Quote

Apple is especially wary of industrial espionage and any attempts to broadcast data to China will probably not go undetected. Also I don't know why the government will know unless the companies regularly admit government officials to examine their hardware.

 

I think what happened was that in the Pentagon lunch room one cia agent was insulting another by saying "your super micro can fit in this apple core it's amazing it's like one of those spy chips we use". And then the pentagon head janitor, the "government official", who is 85 years old with hearing aids overheard this across the lunch room and decided to report what he heard to Bloomberg. /S


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/04/chinese-spy-chips-are-said-to-be-found-in-hardware-used-by-apple-amazon-apple-denies-the-bloomberg-businessweek-report.html

Or, these companies are protecting their business, while knowing that at a minimum their hardware is compromised by the US government and that what Bloomberg has reported is true all the same, even if it isn't true regarding the Chinese government.

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2 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

You dont have be misleading to be wrong. You are imply that they wouldn't lie about this but it is entirely possible that they are simply wrong and the information they used to come to their conclusion was incorrect as well. 

I know the following quote is from Bloomberg but assuming they are not lying about the entire thing then getting it wrong after a year and hundreds of interviews would be beyond reason: Source

Quote

Those companies, as well as Supermicro and China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, denied the Businessweek report, which is based on more than a year of reporting and more than 100 interviews.

 

2 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

problem is I don't have any grasp on either end to say anything definitive about it. both could be equally legit in the extreme case scenarios separately (not concurrently) ._.

(my previous reply was just to reiterate the "victim" companies' official responses, not an agreement to either party's stance)

Ideally the investigators should provide some sort of confirmation that there indeed is the issue or not, at this point if the attackers exist they know they have been found.

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Didn't Apple know about Intel's IME?


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My guess is that Apple did indeed find out that their hardware was compromised, and so they never made their way into any of their servers. Given that China is still a major business partner, it’s still better for Apple to play dumb and not blow up the matter. But I have no doubt Apple is closely scrutinising their suppliers to make sure this never happens. 

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I’m convinced now that Bloomberg is just wrong. 

Their journalism has become subpar as of late. 


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2 things stand out to me:

 

1. why people believe only China are evil in the way they govern does my head in.  All governments to a larger or lesser degree are not very nice.  Generally speaking the bigger the country the bigger the issues therefore the more protective they get and and as a consequence the more insidious the action.  There is a reason NZ, Austrailia, sweden norway etc all have better governance.

 

2. The same people that think china are the only ones who do evil things are also the ones that think china are incapable of producing anything of quality, therefore there is no need to worry about this because by their logic most of the chips likely will fail and send the data to an invalid URL.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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On 10/4/2018 at 4:20 PM, Taf the Ghost said:

So there's roughly two ways this can go:

1) More confirmation of why destroying local production was a massive National Security disaster for the USA 

or 

2) Full Scale Fake News!

Either way, this should be fun.

2 Of Course and I hope that Bloomberg gets sued to Smithereens because of this Fake News Story.

 

Because what ever they mentioned in the article is just untechnical, written by a guy who has no clue what the heck he's writing about, their descriptions are wrong.

 

And the Pictures of the devices are either an SMD thingy in the 0201 or 0402 size. 

Does anyone really think that you can get the needed intelligence in such a small device?? I don't...

That's usually some really stupid thing like a Resistor, Capacitor, maybe a Coil and at most a diode that is sold in these sizes.

 

For some real intelligence you need a bigger package and also a couple of more pins. And also some interface to the CPU or something that really has an impact (or Access to the System Memory, wich doesn't really happen these days - IOMMU for the Win). 

 

This "mystery device" looks like it does something in the CPU Power Supply Section. Maybe its a temperature dependant resistor to measure the temperature there??


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On 10/5/2018 at 4:42 AM, DrMacintosh said:

I’m convinced now that Bloomberg is just wrong. 

Their journalism has become subpar as of late. 

So another 4Chan Hitjob??

Looks like they troll everyone and everything these days 👌


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Yeah......let's not pretend China is the only one conducting some form of intricate espionage


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1 hour ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Yeah......let's not pretend China is the only one conducting some form of intricate espionage

your profile pic with that xD lmao


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2 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

So another 4Chan Hitjob??

Looks like they troll everyone and everything these days 👌

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SuperMicro is one of the top dogs in their field, it would be a pretty big scandal if any of this were true.


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5 minutes ago, Sauron said:

SuperMicro is one of the top dogs in their field, it would be a pretty big scandal if any of this were true.

it would also be a pretty big scandal if it turned out to be rumours started by someone looking to buy cheap shares in profitable companies.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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8 minutes ago, mr moose said:

it would also be a pretty big scandal if it turned out to be rumours started by someone looking to buy cheap shares in profitable companies.

Probably just someone suckered in to the next big break, being technology related a lot of journalists don't have enough knowledge to litmus test this sort of thing and eagerness can get in the way of due diligence by not consulting enough industry experts.

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Apple never had any contact with the FBI or any other agency about such an incident. We are not aware of any investigation by the FBI, nor are our contacts in law enforcement.

oh crap! Apple has contacts in the police! The computers are rising up to take over!

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Thread cleaned.

 

As per the Community Standards political discussion isn't allowed. Whilst this thread is inherently political to an extent, it is not an appropriate place to begin discussing international politics or the merit of various countries' actions.

 

Keep things civil and respectful please, and keep political discussion to a minimum - otherwise this thread will need to be locked.


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Does anyone know if this affects pretty much all SuperMicro servers / motherboards?  Or does it mostly affect certain generations / SKUs?

 

For example, I was maybe thinking of using something like one of these in a NAS build sometime....

762996527_Screenshot(381).thumb.png.da275db01216bc2796ea993335abadd3.png  142546312_Screenshot(382).thumb.png.8fdd4af74758a4a666e21d45f38f0b20.png 

 

Along with a few of something like these.

205138030_Screenshot(384).thumb.png.a4369df5fca4b4e4a2ade304d7b5456b.png


But, since I already have 5ba70bcd888ba_hs1502CPUIntelCorei3-6100LGA1151Skylake3p7GHz2Cores4Threads3MBCache-SR2HGX536A921BX80662I36100--1b.thumb.jpg.bb3d62b43c7c996081da2332e43d2081.jpg (was in my laptop until I upgraded to a 6700K a couple Black Fridays ago) ... would it be better to get 1566399153_ASRockE3V5WS(LGA1151ECC)-79.99onNewegg-2018-10-08.jpg.17286dd1cb06fcc30f66638d97a2814e.jpg instead?

 

I'm kinda leaning away from that LGA 1151 option though, because of not having enough PCIe lanes (to add a bunch of LSI SAS HBAs) like the SuperMicro boards have, and DDR4 RAM is crazy expensive, whereas DDR2 is super cheap and even DDR3 isn't all that outgrageous.

 

 

Basically, in a nutshell ... is it still safe to get Socket 771, 1366 or 2011 (Sandy Bridge) Supermicro motherboards?

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3 hours ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

Basically, in a nutshell ... is it still safe to get Socket 771, 1366 or 2011 (Sandy Bridge) Supermicro motherboards?

Older boards yes, if this is true then they wouldn't have had the resources and if not you would still be fine.

 

Newer ones, wait and see how this plays out.

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1 hour ago, ScratchCat said:

Older boards yes, if this is true then they wouldn't have had the resources and if not you would still be fine.

 

Newer ones, wait and see how this plays out.

What do you think would be the newest safe generation?  The newest I've generally been looking at was X9 (LGA 2011 Sandy/Ivy Bridge), but mostly been looking at X8 (LGA 1366) as well as X7 (LGA 771).  I've also seen maybe a few X10 (LGA 2011-3) and H11 (TR4), but CPUs and RAM would still be a bit pricey, even if I could maybe squeeze a board into the budget.  The oldest ones I've looked at were X6, but I've generally rejected X5 as none of them have PCIe support which would be required to support the LSI SAS HBAs.  (At least, I don't know of any PCI-X or legacy PCI SATA cards that support multiple 6Gb/s drives or drives > 2TB.)

 

Speaking of budget, I'd ideally like to keep it down such that the entire system, not counting storage, would be cheaper than a single 5400rpm 6 or 8TB HDD, but am also considering expanding it somewhat.  I'm finding that maybe going for like an $100/$155 X8DTH-iF/6F or $225 X9DRH-7F would get me a LOT more PCIe & RAM support than, say, a $55 X7DWE.  Also, X8 is the oldest I've seen that has BIOS updates for Meltdown/Spectre (I forget which is fixed in BIOS vs in OS.)

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On 10/8/2018 at 10:14 AM, PianoPlayer88Key said:

What do you think would be the newest safe generation?

I seriously would not worry about this whatsoever.  Even if it is true (which there's YOOOOGE amounts of evidence that says it isn't).  If this supposed chip is actually there, it's inline with the hardware management Ethernet port on the motherboard.  What is sometimes referred to as the DRAC or ILO port on the motherboard.  Not a network port that the OS interacts with.

 

In other words: if it's there (it isn't...) then the easy solution is: don't connect the hardware management Ethernet port to anything.  And if you do connect that Ethernet port to a network, make sure that network can't NAT outbound to the Internet.  Problem solved.

 

 


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7 minutes ago, asus killer said:

The US paranoia with China is off the rails. Meanwhile Russia is doing much worst and no one there cares. Jesus this is insane.

I guess its because Russia stopped being a treath to the US and west after the Soviet Union collapesed. 

 

Lets be honest here. china is on road to become the largest world power. India is following suite

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