Nvidia 30 Series unveiled - RTX 3080 2x faster than 2080 for $699

[SolarNova]

15 minutes ago, Tech Enthusiast said:

Well, if performance increase is irrelevant, but the NAMES on the products are important for you... then I guess we have different ways of judging GPUs.

 

Just because a GPU is called 3090 and not Titan, means THAT is the top dog? Even tho Jen said it is the Titan replacement? if it was called Titan, you would be all happy because then the top dog would have been the 700 dollar 3080?

 

Basically, you dislike the situation because the thing is not called Titan? 

Your missing part of my original comment.

 

The performance difference between the 'Top dog' gaming card and the Titan of that generation was always under 10%, damn near identical in most cases.

 

From Nvidias announcement, the 3090 is a not an insignificant amount faster than the 3080.

And as already explained very plainly....

 

IF the 3090 is indeed a Titan ,,and thus there should be no 'Titan' name released this generation, then we are still not seeing the real top dog GPU form NVidia because the 3080 is not close enough in performance to the 'Titan' (3090) .

 

Alternatively.

 

The 3090 is NOT a Titan, and is the top dog gaming card, there will be a actual Titan released in the future that will be closer to the 3090 in performance than the current 3080 is. BUT at that point the 3090 is just like the 2080ti , way overpriced.

 

The names matter because it helps place a GPU in the appropriate tier, and the tier matters because it dictates price. The performance should always be higher than the card of the previous generation in that tier.

 

i cant explain it any better than this so ill leave it here.

[AlwaysFSX]

1 hour ago, SolarNova said:

I see a lot of comments about how 'well' the 30 series is priced, and many youtube commenting on how much performance gain there is 'for the price'.

 

-snip-

Does nobody remember how expensive graphics cards have cost? Especially when you take in to account for inflation? Plenty of cards would be in the $700-1000 range today. RTX 20 pricing wasn't great but it shouldn't have been a surprise given how much cards have cost deep in to the past, ignoring how you can thank AMD for no competition.

[SolarNova]

Just now, AlwaysFSX said:

Does nobody remember how expensive graphics cards have cost? Especially when you take in to account for inflation? Plenty of cards would be in the $700-1000 range today. RTX 20 pricing wasn't great but it shouldn't have been a surprise given how much cards have cost deep in to the past, ignoring how you can thank AMD for no competition.

Inflation doesnt result in a sudden price jump from $700 to $1200+.

 

IIRC in 2006 the GTX 8800 (of which i owned 2), cost ~$500 each.

Even if u go by inflation, that results in ~$665 today. Not $1000+

 

Same goes for the GTX 480, which was ~ $500 in 2010,

thats ~$600 today.

 

The 780ti of 2013 at a higher price point of $700 at launch is...

~$770.  Not $1000+

 

Inflation over the past 20 years doesnt account for the price of top tier (top dog) GPU's being over $1000.

[AlwaysFSX]

2 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

Inflation doesnt result in a sudden price jump from $700 to $1200+.

 

IIRC in 2006 the GTX 8800 (of which i owned 2), cost ~$500 each.

Even if u go by inflation, that results in ~$665 today. Not $1000+

 

Same goes for the GTX 480, which was ~ $500 in 2010,

thats ~$600 today.

 

The 780ti of 2013 at a higher price point of $700 at launch is...

~$770.  Not $1000+

 

Inflation over the past 20 years doesnt account for the price of top tier (top dog) GPU's being over $1000.

[SolarNova]

11 minutes ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Yes i know what that is

 

So what ? You bring up the 8800 Ultra , there's a reason it was laughed at back then. it was a GTX8800 pre-overclocked costing something like $800 at launch, its value tanked quickly.

 

it is not a representative example.

[pas008]

15 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

Inflation doesnt result in a sudden price jump from $700 to $1200+.

 

IIRC in 2006 the GTX 8800 (of which i owned 2), cost ~$500 each.

Even if u go by inflation, that results in ~$665 today. Not $1000+

 

Same goes for the GTX 480, which was ~ $500 in 2010,

thats ~$600 today.

 

The 780ti of 2013 at a higher price point of $700 at launch is...

~$770.  Not $1000+

 

Inflation over the past 20 years doesnt account for the price of top tier (top dog) GPU's being over $1000.

compare phones in same thing and you will see same trend

top tier are suppose to be out of majorities reach unless they splurge

[Kisai]

23 hours ago, porina said:

 

DLSS 2.0 - we've already seen this claimed in past presentations. I said it then and will say it again. Game benchmarks I think will be complicated going forwards as there will be quality and performance comparisons to do. NV 4k DLSS vs NV 4k native vs AMD 4k native vs AMD 4k + whatever they might have.

 

 

The problem is that DLSS is very easy to optimize against a benchmark, so I would probably suggest any benchmarks run with the card test DLSS off only, RT features off and DLSS off, and both on.

[cj09beira]

5 hours ago, porina said:

It'll come down to the use case. Having more of something if you don't need/use it is kinda pointless. I think until games are routinely using more VRAM, that'll be under-utilised by most. Bandwidth might have more of a short term performance impact.

ram requirements are expected to rise significantly soon, so its something to keep an eye out for, we should know if it will happen or not in a years time.

5 hours ago, Kilrah said:

People are just worried 10GB might not be enough anymore 2 years down the line. 

ya with games like Star citizien and those coming from the new consoles having so much more that needs to be loaded at the same time, we need faster IO, and while we dont have it more vram / ram will be the solution

4 hours ago, NE0XY said:

Any chance ASUS Poseidon returns this generation? 

nvidia has been restricting aibs more and more, so those kinds of cards are getting rarer, as they used to be more than simply a card on a fancy cooler, they were a binned die, on a fancy pcb with extra power, tdp limits could be removed, voltage could be increased over stock significantly, etc, kingpin seems to be able to do it for some reason though so there's that.

2 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

there were rumors that big navi is 40-50% faster than 2080 ti

and there is proof of at least 30% over the 2080 ti on a openvr benchmark though you have to have the "game" to see the result.

1 hour ago, Tech Enthusiast said:

Kinda strange assertion, don't you think?

 

I mean the reason we (the customers) want competition is to get better products for better prices.

Now you are claiming NVidia offering a great product for a great price is.... bad for competition? That does not check out for me.

 

We can be pleased that NVidia is not abusing their monopoly as much as they could do. Instead, they beat themselves up by basically deleting every reason to buy a Turing GPU. That is something we want from AMD,... but why do we need them, if NVidia is doing it themselves?

they aren't doing it themselves, they are responding to the consoles and to what rumors point big navi to be, nvidea has the habit of doing this all the time, just before amd launches a card they find a way to counteract it the best they can, with things like the super series, the first XX80 ti was a response to the 290x, etc.

1 hour ago, porina said:

Big navi doesn't (necessarily) get any major uplift in process compared to existing navi. They will have to focus more on architecture. Let's see what they bring.

 

I'll have to test it out some time.

 

Apologies for my writing style. I was saying the only system I know I had passive conversion from DP to HDMI was on a Dell desktop, which had a pair of DP++ ports on it. Kinda annoying, as the only displays I had around me were native DVI and HDMI. This was in a corporate environment.

 

Traditional TV and related content (VHS, DVD) were not mastered to be shown in full. There could be unwanted stuff on the edges so TVs overscanned to hide them. 

they should have an edge over nvidia though, as samsung's node is behind, and from xbox series x performance and power amd's claim of 50% better perf/w seems to have panned out

[Valentyn]

58 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

Your missing part of my original comment.

 

The performance difference between the 'Top dog' gaming card and the Titan of that generation was always under 10%, damn near identical in most cases.

 

From Nvidias announcement, the 3090 is a not an insignificant amount faster than the 3080.

And as already explained very plainly....

 

IF the 3090 is indeed a Titan ,,and thus there should be no 'Titan' name released this generation, then we are still not seeing the real top dog GPU form NVidia because the 3080 is not close enough in performance to the 'Titan' (3090) .

 

Alternatively.

 

The 3090 is NOT a Titan, and is the top dog gaming card, there will be a actual Titan released in the future that will be closer to the 3090 in performance than the current 3080 is. BUT at that point the 3090 is just like the 2080ti , way overpriced.

 

The names matter because it helps place a GPU in the appropriate tier, and the tier matters because it dictates price. The performance should always be higher than the card of the previous generation in that tier.

 

i cant explain it any better than this so ill leave it here.

 

 

NVIDIA list the 3090 supports Studio Drivers, like the Titans and Quadros do. Looking at shaders alone, the 3090 should be around 20% faster than the 3080.

I expect there might be a 3080 Super, or 3080Ti to slot in between the two, and give more than 10GB VRAM.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/graphics-cards/30-series/rtx-3090/

 

[toddleronebar]

On 9/1/2020 at 10:03 AM, nathanyule said:

My first thoughts when I saw the cards.

I'd throw a water block on that thing, still have my hydrocopper 1080. need to upgrade 

[Mark Kaine]

So hype aside,  when do we expect the *real* cards hitting, ie aftermarket models, and the Super / Ti ones? 

 

Because surely NV knows these low VRAM configurations won't cut it anymore after the new consoles released... 

 

 

[yian88]

Rip Radeon RTG  2020! 

 

F

[nathanyule]

2 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

So hype aside,  when do we expect the *real* cards hitting, ie aftermarket models, and the Super / Ti ones? 

 

Because surely NV knows these low VRAM configurations won't cut it anymore after the new consoles released... 

 

 

I'm just hoping that AMD is a direct competitor of the cards and undercuts the pricing, especially in the mid range category, so nVidia has to respond by either giving more performance at the same price (super lineup) or reduce the price to compete with AMD's. 

 

This probably won't happen because AMD can't seem to get their head in the game for GPUs, but I am hoping that I'm jinxing it. 

[Kisai]

4 hours ago, porina said:

 

Traditional TV and related content (VHS, DVD) were not mastered to be shown in full. There could be unwanted stuff on the edges so TVs overscanned to hide them. 

The reverse is actually true. CRT's were never edge-to-edge in the first place, so VHS, DVD, Video game consoles, and the like were typically designed to not put anything in the overscan area.

 

From NESDEV:

 

 

https://eks.tv/title-safe-still-matters/

 

Basically any video you produce, needs to be within the "title safe" area to prevent it from being cropped by overscan or pillar-boxing (4:3 on a 16:9 screen)

 

Mobile phones don't all have 16:9 screens (like the iPhone) and tablets are rarely 16:9 because they're too darn awkward to hold that way. Tablets are designed with the aspect ratio closer to that of printed paper (the iPad Pro is larger than a A4 page) because they're intended to be used like that.

 

In the case of video game consoles, you usually need all the UI stuff within the title safe area, because if you let the game put stuff outside it, that might not be visible for whatever reason overscan is on (which is on by default on HDMI TV's, and some GPU's even assume this.) 

 

[Andreas Lilja]

Just saw the 3070Ti info, will there be a 3080Ti soon as well? 

[NumLock21]

RTX 3070 has an interesting fan design. Can see in its reflection, the rear fan is open too, like the others, but front fan is located on the same side as the rear fan. So the 3070 is using the traditional way of cooling like how all cards are now. Or rear fan is pull and front fan is push, with the front fan, pushing air out from the card's exhaust and the rear and being helped pushing the air out with bottom intake fans, on the front of the case.

 

 

@porina
Jensen did kind of emphasis "The more you buy, the more you save" but this time with RTX.

[NumLock21]

Those cards, the power connector smack right in the center. Bye bye, cable management and aesthetic finishes, because now you'll have a cable run, straight down the center of your tempered glass side panel!

[NumLock21]

On 9/1/2020 at 11:57 AM, porina said:

Just saw on the Asus cards, two HDMI connectors. YES! What took them so long? Too many DP before.

My Asus RTX 2070 has 2x HDMI

[Mark Kaine]

31 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Those cards, the power connector smack right in the center. Bye bye, cable management and aesthetic finishes, because now you'll have a cable run, straight down the center of your tempered glass side panel!

Yup, thats pretty dumb... 

 

Btw do we know if those are 2 or 3 slots now (besides the 3090)?

 

I don't think I can fit a 3 slot card in my PC...  

 

I mean I could but then I would lose my super awesome extra GPU cooling fan

 

 

[NumLock21]

6 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Yup, thats pretty dumb... 

 

Btw do we know if those are 2 or 3 slots now (besides the 3090)?

 

I don't think I can fit a 3 slot card in my PC...  

 

I mean I could but then I would lose my super awesome extra GPU cooling fan

 

 

I see you have a matx case so that's 4 slots in total. Triple slot cards, leaves you with a 1 slot gap between that bottom case fan and the fans on the GPU.

[NumLock21]

RTX 3090 has 2 extra connectors on top, similar to AMD's original CFX, but they never mentioned what it's for, I assume it's still SLI. RTX 3070 and 3080 don't have those connectors, or they never bother to show them.

[Mark Kaine]

11 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

I see you have a matx case so that's 4 slots in total. Triple slot cards, leaves you with a 1 slot gap between that bottom case fan and the fans on the GPU.

Yeah I figured  but often the fans seem to extend this by a large margin so yeah, I think it would fit but cutting it close, and I'd lose my bottom intake fan (it's only there to cool the GPU, because 61 C is too hot for me,  I prefer 55-59c) but I suppose it cools the rest of the PC a little bit as well. 

 

I'm just saying,  I'd really prefer a 2 slot card,  but how realistic is that for 3070/80/ti/super is the question.  

[NumLock21]

Just now, Mark Kaine said:

Yeah I figured  but often the fans seem to extend this by a large margin so yeah, I think it would fit but cutting it close, and I'd lose my bottom intake fan (it's only there to cool the GPU (because 61 C is too hot for me,  I prefer 55-59c) but I suppose it cools the rest of the PC a little bit as well. 

 

I'm just saying,  I'd really prefer a 2 slot card,  but how realistic is that for 3070/80/ti/super is the question.  

Can wait for AIB and hope they make a dual slot 3090.

[porina]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

The reverse is actually true. CRT's were never edge-to-edge in the first place, so VHS, DVD, Video game consoles, and the like were typically designed to not put anything in the overscan area.

I'm confused. You describe what I was saying. Maybe we're saying the same thing from different perspectives. 

[Brooksie359]

15 hours ago, F.E.A.R. said:

It wasn't worth it if you had a GTX 1080 Ti, the RTX 2080 Ti is around 23% faster than the GTX 1080 Ti. But I get there are people that don't care about value and will buy it anyway. The RTX 2000 was just Nvidia experimenting with their RT tech and overpricing the cards because of no competition. And yeah the RTX 3090 is overpriced as hell. Even if it's a behemoth of a card, we can't justify it's price.

You mean you can't justify the price. If the 3080 can run at 4k 144hz no problem even in games like cyberpunk 2077 then sure the 3090 probably isn't worth it to me but if it requires a 3090 to run at 4k 144hz then yeah I will pick it up and the cost is justified because it allows me to play at the resolution and framerates I desire.