Nvidia 30 Series unveiled - RTX 3080 2x faster than 2080 for $699

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, Tech Enthusiast said:

There will be no major surprises. Why would there?

The test done is actually all you need. You want to know the uplift, there you go.

 

How much could go wrong after that? Is it possible the new GPUs have terrible 0.1% lows? Well, maybe... but most certainly not likely!?

And if all those games run that well, most of which are the standard go to games for most reviews anyways, how are the chances that all other games suddenly run way worse?

To answer your question  Well, as I mentioned Battlefield V was not shown with RTX mode enabled. Why was that no presented? Sure you can assume that "driver is still in the works", but what if that is not the issue, and that there is a bottleneck issue somewhere else, which may affects other games in the future? We have no idea.

 

I feel like you are too hyped up. This is not in a position you want to be in. This promoted impulse buy, which isn't good.

This is like pre-ordering a game. You assume to be good from a past entry, but you have no guaranty, and many times it under delivers for the given MSRP price.

 

No one is doubting that the RTX performance is impressive over last gen the 20 series, but how many games support RTX? Only a handful after 2 years. That is all. Most of your games aren't using it in the short term. So what is the performance gain over the 20 series in this regard? And is it now worth the price? (please evaluate the price on more than last year card, which obviously was overpriced, and sales numbers indicates that Nvidia didn't sale them well enough compared to what was expected.. so they might look like good value now, but in reality compared to the 10 or 900 series it might be poor value)

 

You also want to see what AMD has to offer. What if they are offering the same performance as the 3080, maybe missing a few features, but costs 200$ less? And leaks suggest that AMD isn't going to rush release this time, and really want to deliver their GPU with quality drivers. 

 

My suggestion, is take a step back. Take a breather. Wait until we know everything about everything, and now you can do that purchase decision. Then you'll have no regrets, and know with confidence that your purchase decision was right.

 

[spartaman64]

4 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

snip

but goodbytes When you die and your whole life flashes before your eyes, how much of it do you want to not have ray tracing?

[GoodBytes]

28 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

i think they have a 3080 competitor and the fact that nvidia is pricing things this well is an indicator that they might have something really competitive 

 

I agree. It would be foolish to think that Nvidia doesn't know anything about AMD (same for the reversed). 

 

I still think the reason why Nvidia didn't brand the 3090 as Titan, was just because they want to say that they have the fastest gaming GPU. 3090 is a clear monstrosity of a card. But if you think about it, if AMD released a GPU that is faster or close to the same performance than the Nvidia's 3080 (will be most likely sold at a lower price), and we assume that the 3090 didn't exists, then Nvidia stock will plummet. The 3090 is a clear product to ensure that doesn't happen.

 

[Tech Enthusiast]

1 hour ago, MarcoZ said:

This is very bad for competition.

Kinda strange assertion, don't you think?

 

I mean the reason we (the customers) want competition is to get better products for better prices.

Now you are claiming NVidia offering a great product for a great price is.... bad for competition? That does not check out for me.

 

We can be pleased that NVidia is not abusing their monopoly as much as they could do. Instead, they beat themselves up by basically deleting every reason to buy a Turing GPU. That is something we want from AMD,... but why do we need them, if NVidia is doing it themselves?

[Parideboy]

18 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

there were rumors that big navi is 40-50% faster than 2080 ti

Yeah, if it scales like it's rumored it's basically double the performance of a 5700XT on paper. I really hope the drivers are decent.

I'm just skeptical after Vega, but I really want AMD to catch up. Plus, I'd rather not swap my current heater with another one lol

[SolarNova]

I see a lot of comments about how 'well' the 30 series is priced, and many youtube commenting on how much performance gain there is 'for the price'.

 

Its hard for me to imagine how people can have the wool pulled over their eyes so easily.

 

You all need to remember, we have NEVER accepted price increases for performance over the previous generation. The price tiers are more or less set, u dont pay for 'extra' performance, u pay for the 'tier'. Just because a new card is 25% better than the card it replaces doesn't mean u pay more for it.

 

Business Tier (Quadro) $2500+

Professional Tier (Titan) ~$1000+

Top tier ~$700

2nd tier ~$500

3rd tier ~$350

4th tier ~$250

 

This is 2 decades of pricing, with the Titan entering the fray in 2014.

 

The 20 series screwed with this in a major way by putting the Tier under the Titan , at titan pricing.

Now Nvidia has a 3090, you can bet there will be a card with the Titan name released at some point, making the 3090 once again another 2080ti in regards to pricing.

 

Also look at the performance,

The Titan cards and the 'gaming card' below it always have very similar performance. (<10%)

 

The Original GTX Titan vs the 780ti

The Titan X vs the 980ti

The Titan X (XP) vs the 1080ti

Even the RTX Titan vs 2080ti

 

The 3080 judging by NVIDIAs graphs doesnt look to be close enough to the 3090 (if the 3090 is indeed a Titan).

As such either the 3090 IS the top gaming card and NOT a Titan, and thus over priced,

OR

There is another card to come between the 3080 and 3090, in which case they 'should' pull a 700 series and release a 3080ti closer to the performance of the 3090 (Titan), priced at the current MSRP of the 3080, and lower the 3080 price. But i bet if they do release a 3080ti they will NOT lower the price.

 

This isnt a return to form for Nvidia, this is Nvidia purposely taking 2 steps to far with the 20 series, so that they can be praised for then taking 1 step back with the 30 series. 

Bit of simple math here ,, thats still 1 step to far !

[Tech Enthusiast]

19 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I feel like you are too hyped up. This is not in a position you want to be in. This promoted impulse buy, which isn't good.

I get that being skeptical is a good thing. Don't get me wrong there.

It's just that I see a limit there. There is a line between healthy skepticism and outright paranoia.

 

I see very little reason to destroy a 1mil YouTube channel, just to fake or hide something for 2 weeks, when people can't even buy the product.

And Nvidia does not have a past of lying and overhyping, or having major issues in select titles.

 

Again: Some skepticism is very warranted. But don't go all overboard with that. There is enough evidence shown to expect a pretty damn amazing generation of GPUs.

[Kilrah]

4 minutes ago, Parideboy said:

Plus, I'd rather not swap my current heater with another one lol

Since everyone values performance first I think any card we get from anyone in the foreseeable future will be a heater

[Tech Enthusiast]

1 minute ago, SolarNova said:

Business Tier (Quadro) $2500+

Professional Tier (Titan) ~$1000+

Top tier ~$700

2nd tier ~$500

3rd tier ~$350

4th tier ~$250

Tiers change. That is something you have to include in your (otherwise valid) argument.

You noticed yourself that Titans used to be TIs... now they are 90s. Names don't matter really. The underlying product does.

 

And well,... Ampere has a 700$ price tag for the top dog and 500$ for the 2nd tier. So... what is bad about that?

This also comes with a 60-100% performance increase, greater than Pascal, which in itself was highly acclaimed to be amazing.

[spartaman64]

9 minutes ago, Tech Enthusiast said:

Kinda strange assertion, don't you think?

 

I mean the reason we (the customers) want competition is to get better products for better prices.

Now you are claiming NVidia offering a great product for a great price is.... bad for competition? That does not check out for me.

 

We can be pleased that NVidia is not abusing their monopoly as much as they could do. Instead, they beat themselves up by basically deleting every reason to buy a Turing GPU. That is something we want from AMD,... but why do we need them, if NVidia is doing it themselves?

i dont think this is the case here but there is precedence for monopolistic companies selling products at a loss for a while to kill off competition and then jack up prices when the competition is dead. but yeah i think what's likely is nvidia knows amd has something big coming so they are trying to get ahead of it

[porina]

1 hour ago, MarcoZ said:

The only leg left to stand on for AMD is process and power advantage. If they can bang out a 3070 competitor at better wattage and undercut it, they'll be good, but I have my doubts. This is very bad for competition.

Big navi doesn't (necessarily) get any major uplift in process compared to existing navi. They will have to focus more on architecture. Let's see what they bring.

 

36 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

hence why DP++ marking is no longer in use

I'll have to test it out some time.

 

36 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I guess Dell wanted to save a penny on your desktop? Or you had a faulty cable?

Apologies for my writing style. I was saying the only system I know I had passive conversion from DP to HDMI was on a Dell desktop, which had a pair of DP++ ports on it. Kinda annoying, as the only displays I had around me were native DVI and HDMI. This was in a corporate environment.

 

36 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

What would be purpose to overscan an image?

Traditional TV and related content (VHS, DVD) were not mastered to be shown in full. There could be unwanted stuff on the edges so TVs overscanned to hide them. 

[SolarNova]

4 minutes ago, Tech Enthusiast said:

You noticed yourself that Titans used to be TIs... now they are 90s

No Titans were never 'ti'. Ti = Titanium. So 1080Titanium. not 1080Titan.

 

4 minutes ago, Tech Enthusiast said:

And well,... Ampere has a 700$ price tag for the top dog and 500$ for the 2nd tier. So... what is bad about that?

The 'top dog' is $1500 if its not a Titan. it could be ,, but again iv already gone over that scenario in my post.

 

4 minutes ago, Tech Enthusiast said:

This also comes with a 60-100% performance increase, greater than Pascal, which in itself was highly acclaimed to be amazing

I already addressed this . Performance increase over the card its replacing is irrelevant

 

[.Apex.]

9 hours ago, AdmiralMeowmix said:

TFlops is flawed anyways never believe them. But just because somethign has mroe cuda cores doesnt mean it has that much extra performance. AMD beat out nvidia in specs with their last card but it performed significantly worse despite having superior specs in it. We can't expect a linear increase in performance and expecting a linear increase is stupid. Diminishing returns will happen and how they optimize said cores and other parts of the card wil ldetermine performance not raw spec alone. You could have a card with massive amounts of everything in it but have it run horrible all the same.

I'm aware that TFlops is not a definite metric of performance but it has always been relatively close to the expected performance, and the trend has always been to optimize and achieve more performance out of the CUDA Cores that are available, and which AMD card are you talking about? the 5700XT? it has the same specs as a 2070S and it performs the same as a 2070S, so where is the discrepancy there?

 

So with newer generations always beating out the previous generations with the same amount of TFlops, this seems like a huge step back if there is genuinely 8704 CUDA Cores and it performs this badly, if you remember the A100 had 6912 CUDA Cores and that has a bigger die, so how were they able to fit more CUDA Cores in a smaller area? that's why it's misleading, what they've most likely done is split the FP32 Cores in 2 which perform the same as a single FP32 Core, so it appears that it has more but in reality it doesn't, if you cut down the 8704 Cores in Half that results in 4352 CUDA Cores and that's much more reasonable compared to the A100.

[AlTech]

Just now, Syn. said:

Snip

I believe that would also line up more closely with the rumours that came prior to launch.

[.Apex.]

11 hours ago, Sorenson said:

The 3080 was shown to be 70-90% faster in certain non-RTX games by digital foundry. I doubt Nvidia would blatantly say on their slides that the 3070 was faster than a 2080 ti if it wasn't true. It's a comparison between two of their own products and they presumably make a lot more money off a 2080ti than they will with a 3070. 

Considering the RTX 3070 would sell a lot more I doubt they are making more money from an RTX 2080 Ti, and they've said the 3080 was double the performance but it turned out to be 70-80% faster, so why is it crazy that an RTX 3070 won't be as fast as they say, I'm waiting for the reviews though to confirm but those are just my expectations from what I've seen

[Parideboy]

23 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

i dont think this is the case here but there is precedence for monopolistic companies selling products at a loss for a while to kill off competition and then jack up prices when the competition is dead. but yeah i think what's likely is nvidia knows amd has something big coming so they are trying to get ahead of it

I don't think they are selling at a loss. Samsung is cheaper than TSMC. If AMD can price their cards cheaper while using TSMC, surely can Nvidia.

That said, I don't see why Nvidia could't have used the same pricing for the 20 series if nothing was on the horizon.

  

26 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Since everyone values performance first I think any card we get from anyone in the foreseeable future will be a heater

Guess I anticipated a trend then

[.Apex.]

2 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

I believe that would also line up more closely with the rumours that came prior to launch.

Yes the rumors were that the 3090 had 5248 CUDA Cores and instead we got exactly double that of 10496, same with the rest of the cards, I wonder if this would result in a lawsuit same way how the FX series claimed to have 8 Cores but in reality they've essentially had 2 cores fit into the same pipeline, I don't think so but I personally don't like the misleading specs unless there is a clear advantage to this design which I'm waiting to see if there is any benefit to workloads other than gaming.

[AlTech]

1 minute ago, Syn. said:

Yes the rumors were that the 3090 had 5248 CUDA Cores and instead we got exactly double that of 10496, same with the rest of the cards, I wonder if this would result in a lawsuit same way how the FX series claimed to have 8 Cores but in reality they've essentially had 2 cores fit into the same pipeline, I don't think so but I personally don't like the misleading specs unless there is a clear advantage to this design which I'm waiting to see if there is any benefit to workloads other than gaming.

I'm assuming it would benefit Compute assuming each 30 series Cuda Core is now an FP16 ALU.

[spartaman64]

8 minutes ago, Parideboy said:

I don't think they are selling at a loss. Samsung is cheaper than TSMC. If AMD can price their cards cheaper while using TSMC, surely can Nvidia.

That said, I don't see why Nvidia could't have used the same pricing for the 20 series if nothing was on the horizon.

  

Guess I anticipated a trend then

yep as i said i dont think thats the case but you still have to be careful about saying hey this company has good prices now that means they are benevolent and want what's best for me because that is almost certainly not the case

[SolarNova]

Not sure if this has been posted yet or not but.

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3070-ti-spotted-with-16gb-gddr6-memory

 

3070 Ti/Super 

 

IF true , it further suggest a 3080ti/super is on its way, likely in Nvidias back pocket in case AMD performs a miracle.

[Senzelian]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

1080?! I have a 680! You can live with what you have longer.

I could if I'd be okay with either medium settings or 40-50 FPS.

Buying a RTX 3080 for around 700€ and selling the 1080 for at least 150€ for at least double the performance seems like a decent deal.

 

But a 680? Ouch...

I mean good for you. That's a lot of money saved, but ouch!

[.Apex.]

4 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

I'm assuming it would benefit Compute assuming each 30 series Cuda Core is now an FP16 ALU.

As I remember from when the A100 released, I've realized that they've split the FP64 Cores into 4x FP16 Cores and the FP32 Cores into 2x FP16 which is why they were able to pull off 4x FP16 performance compared to FP32, but they didn't advertise it as having the double the amount of the FP32 Cores, maybe because they didn't expect the enterprise space to fall for it? though I do expect it to have better FP16 performance but unless NVIDIA has purposefully hindered it then it's pointless

[GoodBytes]

31 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

I see a lot of comments about how 'well' the 30 series is priced, and many youtube commenting on how much performance gain there is 'for the price'.

Its hard for me to imagine how people can have the wool pulled over their eyes so easily.

It is because of hype, sadly. 

 

30 minutes ago, Tech Enthusiast said:

I get that being skeptical is a good thing. Don't get me wrong there.

It's just that I see a limit there. There is a line between healthy skepticism and outright paranoia.

Waiting for full information, is not skepticism or paranoia. And not jumping on hype, comes from personal experience. You just end up regretting your purchase. There is nothing wrong waiting a few months. All you win is lower pricing in any case. Either way, the latest rumors is that Samsung us having yield issues, and so stock will be limited, so expect price hikes, and probably Nvidia taking advantage of this claiming that their GPUs is selling super well, when really they only made 10 worldwide (it would feel like it, I mean, not actually made 10, I have no data on that, of course).

 

Beside what exiting game you need to play NOW that it can't wait a month or so later, beside Cyberpunk?

The way I see it, all the games are on hold for the new gen console.
 

30 minutes ago, Tech Enthusiast said:

I see very little reason to destroy a 1mil YouTube channel, just to fake or hide something for 2 weeks, when people can't even buy the product.

Digital Foundry is respected source, and there is no destroying. That said, their specialization is on games on consoles, not really PCs. The place to go if you want to buy a high profile game that is being ported to your favorite console and want to see if they did a good port, or best to wait for the price to drop and patches to come in. In addition, nothing they showed was lying. It is accurate, I am sure of it. But the problem is the control that they were limited too. Like I said, it is fine to get a general idea. But don't assume the rest.

 

30 minutes ago, Tech Enthusiast said:

And Nvidia does not have a past of lying and overhyping, or having major issues in select titles.

Hmmm... Nvidia 400 series, FX series, 2000 series with RTX, GPU sales used for mining and limiting production to increase pricing, 970 with its miss lead specs, early 8000 series, mobile GPU overheating issues... yea no.. Nvidia is guilty as any other company.

 

 

30 minutes ago, Tech Enthusiast said:

Again: Some skepticism is very warranted. But don't go all overboard with that. There is enough evidence shown to expect a pretty damn amazing generation of GPUs.

Agreed, but you can't just jump and buy the card either or pre-order it.

[GoodBytes]

25 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

I could if I'd be okay with either medium settings or 40-50 FPS.

Buying a RTX 3080 for around 700€ and selling the 1080 for at least 150€ for at least double the performance seems like a decent deal.

I am just teasing you.. but you can wait a few months. Looking at Amazon price tracking computer components tend to drop late December, before Charismas in any case.

 

Quote

But a 680? Ouch...

I mean good for you. That's a lot of money saved, but ouch!

Well it is a long story, but essentially I was not happy with my PC (Core i7 930 6GB of RAM), and by the time I had money to replace it to my liking, there was nothing compelling on the market, then I was busy with university to be able to really game, so I just hold off. I was playing games when I could on my game console. That hold me. But yes, I'll be buying a new system once the new AMD CPUs are out (it would be silly to buy now, it would be like those who just bought the 2080Ti before the 3000 series announcement)

 

As for money savings... technically you are correct. But the Canadian currency went to the toilet at the same time. Before, it was like "add 30-50$ per part from US pricing, and you are good", now "Ouuuuuuu! $699!... wait.. that is.. $950 Canadian!!!". A good 30% + round up to the second digit to get nice numbers.. so for example: 730$ is 750$. So my savings doesn't get far. Not to mention price hikes form CPU and GPUs.  Before you can build a nice gaming system for 1.5k. Now, 2k-2.5k for a gaming system.

 

Oh, and all that is before taxes! Because in Canada, like in the US, the taxes aren't included in the price. You get the surprise at the cash register or checkout page. And when you swallow after seeing the price, everyone around you start laughing at you... Eeeeviiillll laugh... ok I made that part out.

[Tech Enthusiast]

54 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

No Titans were never 'ti'. Ti = Titanium. So 1080Titanium. not 1080Titan.

 

The 'top dog' is $1500 if its not a Titan. it could be ,, but again iv already gone over that scenario in my post.

 

I already addressed this . Performance increase over the card its replacing is irrelevant

 

Well, if performance increase is irrelevant, but the NAMES on the products are important for you... then I guess we have different ways of judging GPUs.

 

Just because a GPU is called 3090 and not Titan, means THAT is the top dog? Even tho Jen said it is the Titan replacement? if it was called Titan, you would be all happy because then the top dog would have been the 700 dollar 3080?

 

Basically, you dislike the situation because the thing is not called Titan?