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AMD Confusing/Misleading Customers Again (570 Rebrand)

Curufinwe_wins
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Go to solution Solved by LinusTech,
8 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

The first time AMD did this was with the Chinese-only RX 470D, with 1792 stream processors rather than the 470's 2048. Maybe that's what encouraged AMD to release more nerfed cards, like the 560D and this seemingly 580D, but why would they release a new 590 then? It's the exact the same item as what they already have, unlike the 470D and 560D which are different (minor, but something).

Wrong. The first time *I* got screwed over by AMD (though they were ATi at that point) and their loosey-goosey "guidelines" with respect to the branding of their GPUs was on a Radeon 9600. This appears to be a particularly egregious example of this behavior, but this bullshit has been happening for years and will likely never stop.

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In yet another performance rebrand for the worse, AMD quietly released a variant of the 580 with 570 specs.

 

From Anandtech:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13480/amd-launches-radeon-rx-580-with-reduced-number-of-stream-processors

 

Quote

AMD has quietly launched a Radeon RX 580 GPU with a reduced number of stream processors. The new product is called the Radeon RX 580 2048SP and, as the name suggests, it has 2048 stream processors, down from 2304 SPs on the original product. The Radeon RX 580 2048SP is currently available only in China and it is unclear whether the product will be sold in other countries as well.

 

The Radeon RX 580 2048SP is basically the Radeon RX 570, but with a slightly higher boost clock and a different name. Compute performance of the Radeon RX 580 2048SP is listed as 5.1 TFLOPS, which is around 18% lower when compared to the Radeon RX 580. Just like the RX 570, the RX 580 2048SP cards come equipped with 8 GB of GDDR5 memory running at 7 Gbps, down from 8 Gbps on the original RX 580. Given how close specs of the RX 580 2048SP and the RX 570 are, it is unclear why AMD decided to release this “new” product with the RX 580 name, if only to confuse customers.

20181015_214543.thumb.jpg.7afa96cc6e66ffde8f8c0032e50167ac.jpg

 

 

My thoughts:

 

In some ways this is a rehash of the downgraded rerelease of the 560. Yet while the newer 560 was at least notably better than the 550, and marginally worse than the 560 OG, this product is deficient by 18%!!! In compute, and margin of error similar in specs to aftermarket 570s. This is a truly revolting practice by AMD (and to a lesser but still notable extent Nvidia). Claiming for now it's just a chinese model isnt good enough. 

 

The acts by Nvidia to make slightly worse, yet distinctly different 1060 (3G v 6G) models is bad. Very bad. For consumers. This is blatantly ripping them off.

 

But hey, companies exist to make money.

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It's the rx 590

 

Totally legit

https://videocardz.com/78583/amd-radeon-rx-590-spotted-at-3dmark-database#disqus_thread

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Both AMD and NVIDIA release cards, typically in China, oriented towards places such as gaming cafes to provide a near top of the line experience while decreasing prices. Basically cutting corners until it's held together by strings to decrease the price while keeping the core of it the same.

 

E.g.

 

GTX 1060 5GB

RX 580 2048SP

 

Also, this isn't misleading. These types of hardware are commonly released in commercial markets for bulk purchase.

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7 minutes ago, KodiakAyy said:

Both AMD and NVIDIA release cards, typically in China, oriented towards places such as gaming cafes to provide a near top of the line experience while decreasing prices.

 

E.g.

 

GTX 1060 5GB

RX 580 2048SP

Sure, and I can be annoyed by that (as mentioned in the OP). But while the 5GB 1060 has the same clock speeds and Cuda cores as the 6GB model. It has reductions in memory bandwidth. It isn't 18% weaker in compute.

 

This card is identical to aftermarket 570s in every way (except memory module density, but that's a drop in replacement that doesn't actually help in 99% of cases). It is a 8GB 570. It is not and has nothing in common with a 580.

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4 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Sure, and I can be annoyed by that (as mentioned in the OP). But while the 5GB 1060 has the same clock speeds and Cuda cores as the 6GB model. It has reductions in memory bandwidth. It isn't 18% weaker in compute.

 

This card is identical to aftermarket 570s in every way (except memory module density, but that's a drop in replacement that doesn't actually help in 99% of cases). It is a 8GB 570. It is not and has nothing in common with a 580.

Except the people who are gonna buy this are consumers, they are commercial business owners, who are going to brand their products with RX 580, and make money on the difference, without technically lying. Business is business.

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Are all these hardware manufacturers allergic to numbers not ending in 0? Would it be that hard to just call it an RX 575 and make everyone happy? 

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Just now, KodiakAyy said:

Except the people who are gonna buy this are consumers, they are commercial business owners, who are going to brand their products with RX 580, and make money on the difference, without technically lying. Business is business.

And mislead their consumers in the process.

 

Besides, read my last sentence in the OP. 

 

I'm not saying its illegal or anything, I'm just saying its shading, crappy, and we should denounce it.

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1 minute ago, Waffles13 said:

Are all these hardware manufacturers allergic to numbers not ending in 0? Would it be that hard to just call it an RX 575 and make everyone happy? 

It isn't even an upgrade on the 570 though unless you are particularly memory starved. It should just be called the 570.

 

Just like they did with upgrading Hawaii with 8GB models.

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Just now, Curufinwe_wins said:

And mislead their consumers in the process.

 

Besides, read my last sentence in the OP. 

 

I'm not saying its illegal or anything, I'm just saying its shading, crappy, and we should denounce it.

We should denounce it, but we aren't the target demographic here. This is for people who most likely haven't built a system and are either

 

Buying a prebuilt, where it's marketed as a RX 580.

 

Or playing at a cafe, where it's marketed as a high-end experience.

 

Either way, this product isn't for us, it's for AMD to have a larger place in the Chinese market. I absolutely believe that this product will never show up in consumer markets, especially US ones.

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5 minutes ago, KodiakAyy said:

We should denounce it, but we aren't the target demographic here. This is for people who most likely haven't built a system and are either

 

Buying a prebuilt, where it's marketed as a RX 580.

 

Or playing at a cafe, where it's marketed as a high-end experience.

 

Either way, this product isn't for us, it's for AMD to have a larger place in the Chinese market. I absolutely believe that this product will never show up in consumer markets, especially US ones.

any proof that it's mostly for Chinese market? Because what we know now is that the 12nm refresh will replace the 14nm Polaris completely, from all markets.

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8 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

any proof that it's mostly for Chinese market? Because what we know now is that the 12nm refresh will replace the 14nm Polaris completely, from all markets.

From what we know, there is no reason to believe this is a 12nm refresh model.

 

I don't believe saying it's just for chinese markets is a valid excuse personally. Ripping off chinese consumers isn't dramatically more palatable than us. At least for me.

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2 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

From what we know, there is no reason to believe this is a 12nm refresh model.

 

I don't believe saying it's just for chinese markets is a valid excuse personally. Ripping off chinese consumers isn't dramatically more palatable than us. At least for me, personally.

The first time AMD did this was with the Chinese-only RX 470D, with 1792 stream processors rather than the 470's 2048. Maybe that's what encouraged AMD to release more nerfed cards, like the 560D and this seemingly 580D, but why would they release a new 590 then? It's the exact the same item as what they already have, unlike the 470D and 560D which are different (minor, but something).

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8 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

The first time AMD did this was with the Chinese-only RX 470D, with 1792 stream processors rather than the 470's 2048. Maybe that's what encouraged AMD to release more nerfed cards, like the 560D and this seemingly 580D, but why would they release a new 590 then? It's the exact the same item as what they already have, unlike the 470D and 560D which are different (minor, but something).

Wrong. The first time *I* got screwed over by AMD (though they were ATi at that point) and their loosey-goosey "guidelines" with respect to the branding of their GPUs was on a Radeon 9600. This appears to be a particularly egregious example of this behavior, but this bullshit has been happening for years and will likely never stop.

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2 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

Wrong. The first time *I* got screwed over by AMD (though they were ATi at that point) and their loosey-goosey "guidelines" with respect to the branding of their GPUs was on a Radeon 9600. This appears to be a particularly egregious example of this behavior, but this bullshit has been happening for years and will likely never stop.

oof it seems like you do not like AMD at all

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1 minute ago, iLostMyXbox21 said:

oof it seems like you do not like AMD at all

I think it's more this behavior is ridiculous, inexcusable, and persistent.

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2 minutes ago, iLostMyXbox21 said:

oof it seems like you do not like AMD at all

It's linus, you know that's not true

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56 minutes ago, KodiakAyy said:

Also, this isn't misleading. These types of hardware are commonly released in commercial markets for bulk purchase.

if these graphics cards are being purchased in bulk, does that mean OEM manufacturers are going to be using them inside machines that consumers will then be buying? It's going to continue to mislead the consumer anyway, and possibly in an even worse way, since as we all know OEM machines cost more than building your own, so inflating that price by slapping 580 on it is pretty misleading. 

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2 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

if these graphics cards are being purchased in bulk, does that mean OEM manufacturers are going to be using them inside machines that consumers will then be buying? It's going to continue to mislead the consumer anyway, and possibly in an even worse way, since as we all know OEM machines cost more than building your own, so inflating that price by slapping 580 on it is pretty misleading. 

And documentation of which 580 will be used is even harder to find. Like when Microsoft just says Intel Core i7 and Nvidia GPU for the SB2.

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22 minutes ago, iLostMyXbox21 said:

oof it seems like you do not like AMD at all

Of course not: he's an Nvidia shill 100% of the time. 100% of the time he's not being an AMD fanboy. I mean, after deducting the time he's an Intel puppet.

OK, whatever, it made sense in my head, unsubscribing!

 

 

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I mean the name clearly has a distinction attached to it. I don't agree with those that have the position that this is a bad thing. 

 

Its not a good thing either, but its not like RX 580 and RX 580 2048SP are even vaguely the same. Not to mention the GPU appears to be only available in China and probably to OEMs mostly. 

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2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

I mean the name clearly has a distinction attached to it. I don't agree with those that have the position that this is a bad thing. 

 

Its not a good thing either, but its not like RX 580 and RX 580 2048SP are even vaguely the same. Not to mention the GPU appears to be only available in China and probably to OEMs mostly. 

What percentage of consumers do you think would ever know that 2048SP means it is a 20% cutdown? Or if they were told that the 2048 refers to the size of the GPU, how many would know its lower sized than normal?

 

I'm guessing maybe .1% myself. 

 

I think it's a less obviously different GPU than even calling it the 580D. And even then, it isn't a 580. It is a 570.

 

Also. Because 2048SP is a separate word, Microsoft (just citing an example) syndrome would merely call it a 580. Like they just say "intel i7". I mean it's bad enough that you don't know what version of 1060 is being used half the time. 

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edit based on more info: So TL;DR they cloned the 570 and called it a "580 2048SP".  I agree, I can't think of another reason for this other than to slip an inferior card past people not paying attention.  Different tactic, same result.  It's the 560/1030/MX150 all over again.  Only difference is at least you get a name change to tip you off that something might be up.

 

old post:

Spoiler

So it's a 20% different version, with a distinct name (big deal), sold only in one part of the world?  I've made it no secret before that I don't like it when names are unclear or companies try to hide different products under the same label, but I don't think this is necessarily a big problem.  Lets take a moment to remember what nvidia did recently with the MX150, 1030, etc.: up to a 60% difference in performance, identical name, and sold everywhere.  Oh, and to top it off, the move was incredibly hypocritical because they did this in the midst of their GPP statements in which they said they didn't want to mislead gamers into buying substitute GPUs hidden under a pile of techno jargon.  That was far far worse than this.

 

In fact, even AMD has a more egregious example from not that long ago.  Remember when the 560 started getting offered in two variants but with no name change at all?  Then you have the 1060 6GB vs 1060 3GB, which, despite the name actually performs quite a lot differently as well and is not just the same card with less VRAM.

 

I'm not trying to say this is ok because others (and even AMD themselves) have done worse before.  I'm saying this is fine, even in a vacuum.  But, if we're going to rage on this then you should really be raging about those other instances.

 

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2 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

What percentage of consumers do you think would ever know that 2048SP means it is a 20% cutdown?

 

I'm guessing maybe .1% myself. 

 

I think it's a less obviously different GPU than even calling it the 580D. And even then, it isn't a 580. It is a 570.

Again, most consumers are not going to have to deal with this. Its a Chinese model and Nvidia has been doing the same thing of releasing cut down cards in China only with way more shady naming than AMD here. 

 

Its a non issue. 

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