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*snap* UK Internet speeds Don't Feel So Good - New Rules drop internet speeds by almost 50%

rcmaehl
By rcmaehl
in Tech News
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Posted
51 minutes ago, Technous285 said:

A basic answer is you're looking at the population of Texas spread across the Lower 48, mostly on the Eastern Third and even then there's a shittonne of farmland in the lower two-thirds of that area with population sparsely spread out across it outside of a low number of major cities.

most of the older Teleco's, ISP's & now NBN focused most of their money on providing services to the high-density cities first, then medium-density and low-density ones before spreading out or cover the smaller communities like those spread around the Riverina in NSW (even though NBN was sold on providing 25mbps+ internet service to the more rural and farmland communities, they spend most of their early cash on servicing the cities that already had better-than-decent internet services such as Sydney).

Hey Canada is in a worse state regarding population density and cities being rolled out first, it's just that our cities are ahead of your cities it seems. Rural is about equal i would guess

 

Edit: I checked and actually you do have it slightly worse density wise, but half your country isn't an icy wasteland so it evens out :P (can still run fiber in a fiery hellscape)

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Posted

You guys in the uk get ripped off almost as much as those US chumps 

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HAHA in the US if you even have DSL you are lucky to get the speeds you pay for. Charter simply says there isn’t an issue on their end and hangs up

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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2 hours ago, Technous285 said:

A basic answer is you're looking at the population of Texas spread across the Lower 48, mostly on the Eastern Third and even then there's a shittonne of farmland in the lower two-thirds of that area with population sparsely spread out across it outside of a low number of major cities.

most of the older Teleco's, ISP's & now NBN focused most of their money on providing services to the high-density cities first, then medium-density and low-density ones before spreading out or cover the smaller communities like those spread around the Riverina in NSW (even though NBN was sold on providing 25mbps+ internet service to the more rural and farmland communities, they spend most of their early cash on servicing the cities that already had better-than-decent internet services such as Sydney).

And on top of that we only have about 11 Million landline internet subscribers to pay for ALL internet services.  Which is why no company in the world has invested in internet infrastructure (outside of mobile phone), It's just not a feasible business proposition. Without the governments intervention (running at al oss or not) we wouldn't even have the NBN.

2 hours ago, Swatson said:

Edit: I checked and actually you do have it slightly worse density wise, but half your country isn't an icy wasteland so it evens out :P (can still run fiber in a fiery hellscape)

No, half our country is a desert wasteland that can't sustain more than a handful of people per sqr K.  

 

It actually looks like this for the most part:

 

never-ending-road.jpg

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Most providers in the UK (depending on the package you're on) don't impact your service during peak times. Most broadband packages (even the cheapest ones) generally state that they don't throttle your speed at peak times, I have yet to experience a provider in the UK slow my speed during peak hours. 

 

Perhaps many years ago back when broadband was still new I would see it, but this is many years ago... Perhaps when I was with AOL? 

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Vodafone give you a guaranteed minimum speed and they fix what they need until you get it.

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40$ here in Spain 500min+5gb phone/month + hiperspeeed (without limits, omg limits are so 2004 XDD) :D:D:D

 

I thought limited conection were out of business, here in Spain have a law that  force ISP to lower their cost per MB every year, so companies instead lowering prices upgrades speeds at same price, here we are on the 50/10 , 300/300, 600/600 range, next year will be faster! :D 

 

speedtest.jpg

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1 hour ago, sof006 said:

Most providers in the UK (depending on the package you're on) don't impact your service during peak times. Most broadband packages (even the cheapest ones) generally state that they don't throttle your speed at peak times, I have yet to experience a provider in the UK slow my speed during peak hours. 

 

Perhaps many years ago back when broadband was still new I would see it, but this is many years ago... Perhaps when I was with AOL? 

Going back many years, Virgin Media used to throttle downloads during peak times. I think the threshold was something like 3GB (may vary with package) after which the download speed was reduced. They removed that and replaced it with an upload cap at peak times. I think this was during the file sharing era. Don't know if it is still current. VM's network is highly asymmetric. They have a decent download, but you get hardly any upload. I think I'm on something like 75 down 3 or 5 up with them.

 

I really would like to change to a more symmetric package, but where I live there are no realistic fttp options.

 

Edit: it looks like I can get a "free" upgrade to 100/6... probably will tie me in for another year though.

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4 hours ago, Peskanova said:

here in Spain have a law that  force ISP to lower their cost per MB every year,

That seems....unsustainable in the long term.  How can a model like that work in the real world?  At some point they won't be able to upgrade any further, and how low are they forced to go?  Down to nothing?

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/449522-smoking-barrels-ltts-unnofficial-gun-club/

 

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7 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

That seems....unsustainable in the long term.  How can a model like that work in the real world?  At some point they won't be able to upgrade any further, and how low are they forced to go?  Down to nothing?

They "cheat" , some years they up the bandwith some years just low the money, If  you offer same price as last year but 10mb more  thats in fact lowering last year price :D but take note that we have such decent (or good) internet because gov steped in. I never imagine a good internet with bandwith limit, that only happens here on 3g/4g and nothing else. Just that 600/600 a few years ago could cost 100-120$ (I knew some guy that has 600/600 5 years ago but among that price)

 

And well , its like smartphones we all thought that messaging or calls coudnt be free just look now, many isps here if you have your gb limit on your smartphone you can continue to use whatsapp (free).

I think of it and I see logic, firsts years you (isp) had invested on a structure but when that is paid you just are making money out of manteniance.
 

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4 hours ago, porina said:

Going back many years, Virgin Media used to throttle downloads during peak times. I think the threshold was something like 3GB (may vary with package) after which the download speed was reduced. They removed that and replaced it with an upload cap at peak times. I think this was during the file sharing era. Don't know if it is still current. VM's network is highly asymmetric. They have a decent download, but you get hardly any upload. I think I'm on something like 75 down 3 or 5 up with them.

 

I really would like to change to a more symmetric package, but where I live there are no realistic fttp options.

 

Edit: it looks like I can get a "free" upgrade to 100/6... probably will tie me in for another year though.

I would do it, unlike most other providers virgin can usually guarantee you'll always get the full speed. If I'm ever to move home I plan on finding an area that does virgin so I can take out the fastest package they do.

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PSU: Corsair RM850x 80 Plus Gold

Case: BeQuiet! Silent Base 801 Black

Cooler: Noctua NH-DH15

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, sof006 said:

I would do it, unlike most other providers virgin can usually guarantee you'll always get the full speed. If I'm ever to move home I plan on finding an area that does virgin so I can take out the fastest package they do.

Here they guarantee full speed on download but upload it seems less stable , like 600/300 its ok but not 300/600 xD who instaled me fiber told me that upload are less stable and dont know why

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4 hours ago, porina said:

Going back many years, Virgin Media used to throttle downloads during peak times. I think the threshold was something like 3GB (may vary with package) after which the download speed was reduced. They removed that and replaced it with an upload cap at peak times. I think this was during the file sharing era. Don't know if it is still current. VM's network is highly asymmetric. They have a decent download, but you get hardly any upload. I think I'm on something like 75 down 3 or 5 up with them.

 

I really would like to change to a more symmetric package, but where I live there are no realistic fttp options.

 

Edit: it looks like I can get a "free" upgrade to 100/6... probably will tie me in for another year though.

AFAIK Virgin doesn't throttle anything anymore. My upload with them is about 12-14 Mbps.

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I've always had good luck with VM. Pay for 100/6 and normally get 110/8 even at peak times. 

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no wonder I only get like 500-600 mb/s on my gigabit line normally.

not that I really care...

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17 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

When it comes to misleading speeds in the states I think the biggest offenders are mostly the DSL companies. I have seen first hand that they are normally far off what they advertise. Strangely enough the cable companies here are largely pretty spot on with what they are offering give or take 5-10%.

I'm going to disagree. It highly depends on what ISP, and your location.

 

Cable is more susceptible to local oversubscribing, because they use one shared uplink in the neighbourhood that can get over saturated if they put too many people on that node without upgrading the uplink.

 

DSL (at least traditionally) has had dedicated lines along the uplink. You can still get congestion and oversubscription on DSL, but it needs to happen further up the line.

 

Any time I actually had DSL, I always got near enough the speeds I paid for.

16 hours ago, Mihle said:

Don't know about the laws, but:

Well, at least here, it's neither "up to" or "average" speed, I have 120/15, and I get basically always 120/15 no matter the time of day. The least I have mesured since my speed for upgraded to that is 110/13,8 or something if I remember right.

 

For me, even just having and average, is a joke. If you pay for 100/100, you should get 100/100 no matter what time of day it is.

Here's the thing: that's not really how the Internet works. There are a lot of variables outside the control of your ISP that can affect your speeds.

 

If you connect to a web server and download some content but the server side connection maxes out, and you're not getting full speeds - is that your ISP's fault? No, of course not.

 

If you can still utilize the leftover bandwidth on your connection on a different task (eg: connecting to a different web server), then the ISP is delivering on their end.

 

If - however, when you are connected to an otherwise throttled server, but you cannot use the rest of your bandwidth elsewhere, you're either suffering from a connection issue with the ISP, or congestion on the ISP network (which you could consider a connection issue, but I'm treating them as different things).

 

Basically all ISP's oversubscribe their networks to one degree or another. That's because they figure that people won't be all utilizing their connections to the fullest, at the same time - and they're right. When they sell grandma the basic package, she's not even going to use 10% of her available speed, let alone all of it.

 

The problem is when ISP's oversubscribe too much, and then you encounter peak time congestion. This is when an ISP has either been too aggressive getting new clients and has outpaced their network too quickly, or has been lagging in network upgrade investment. Both are common.

16 hours ago, Bcat00 said:

I got Rogers too, but whenever peak period rolls around, you can expect it to drop in my area.

Yeah with Rogers it totally depends on your area. Some of their nodes are highly congested and oversubcribed - but others are totally fine.

 

I currently use Rogers, and I've been through several tiers. When I first got their service a couple of years ago, I was on the Gigabit Ignite package (I think it was originally 1000/50) - and I pretty much saw those speeds most of the time. I was paying $99/mo for Gigabit, unlimited, with the 2nd best Cable TV package. I couldn't pass up that deal.

 

I then downgraded to 500/20 when they wanted to renew at double the price. Then I recently downgraded again to 150/15 (I got some free Meraki hardware - a "Security Gateway" (router), Managed Switch, and AP - but the Gateway capped your connection at 250 Mbps max).

 

In all 3 cases, I more or less was able to max out the connection whenever I needed to.

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2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I'm going to disagree. It highly depends on what ISP, and your location.

 

Cable is more susceptible to local oversubscribing, because they use one shared uplink in the neighbourhood that can get over saturated if they put too many people on that node without upgrading the uplink.

 

DSL (at least traditionally) has had dedicated lines along the uplink. You can still get congestion and oversubscription on DSL, but it needs to happen further up the line.

 

Any time I actually had DSL, I always got near enough the speeds I paid for.

Here's the thing: that's not really how the Internet works. There are a lot of variables outside the control of your ISP that can affect your speeds.

 

If you connect to a web server and download some content but the server side connection maxes out, and you're not getting full speeds - is that your ISP's fault? No, of course not.

 

If you can still utilize the leftover bandwidth on your connection on a different task (eg: connecting to a different web server), then the ISP is delivering on their end.

 

If - however, when you are connected to an otherwise throttled server, but you cannot use the rest of your bandwidth elsewhere, you're either suffering from a connection issue with the ISP, or congestion on the ISP network (which you could consider a connection issue, but I'm treating them as different things).

 

Basically all ISP's oversubscribe their networks to one degree or another. That's because they figure that people won't be all utilizing their connections to the fullest, at the same time - and they're right. When they sell grandma the basic package, she's not even going to use 10% of her available speed, let alone all of it.

 

The problem is when ISP's oversubscribe too much, and then you encounter peak time congestion. This is when an ISP has either been too aggressive getting new clients and has outpaced their network too quickly, or has been lagging in network upgrade investment. Both are common.

Yeah with Rogers it totally depends on your area. Some of their nodes are highly congested and oversubcribed - but others are totally fine.

 

I currently use Rogers, and I've been through several tiers. When I first got their service a couple of years ago, I was on the Gigabit Ignite package (I think it was originally 1000/50) - and I pretty much saw those speeds most of the time. I was paying $99/mo for Gigabit, unlimited, with the 2nd best Cable TV package. I couldn't pass up that deal.

 

I then downgraded to 500/20 when they wanted to renew at double the price. Then I recently downgraded again to 150/15 (I got some free Meraki hardware - a "Security Gateway" (router), Managed Switch, and AP - but the Gateway capped your connection at 250 Mbps max).

 

In all 3 cases, I more or less was able to max out the connection whenever I needed to.

I know Cable is a shared connection vs DSL. The thing I have seen though at least in areas I have lived is that they sell you higher speeds than they can support for the distance you are from the box. On cable in the early days you would see slowdown during prime time, but since docsis 3.0 I haven't noticed any congestion and that has only improved with 3.1.

 

Now when my wifes siblings were all using dsl and purchasing the 75-100mb connections from them, I never once saw any of them break 50mb... they were mostly lucky to pull 25-35mbps even after calling and complaining several times. They ultimately cancelled their service for cable and haven't had an issue since.

 

The biggest problem with dsl is it still relies on phone lines to get from your house to the their box.. so line quality, distance, etc all kill your speeds. On cable you can have noise issues as well, but you have a bigger pipe running to their box where it hits a fiber backbone.

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6 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

I'm going to disagree. It highly depends on what ISP, and your location.

 

Cable is more susceptible to local oversubscribing, because they use one shared uplink in the neighbourhood that can get over saturated if they put too many people on that node without upgrading the uplink.

 

DSL (at least traditionally) has had dedicated lines along the uplink. You can still get congestion and oversubscription on DSL, but it needs to happen further up the line.

 

Any time I actually had DSL, I always got near enough the speeds I paid for.

Here's the thing: that's not really how the Internet works. There are a lot of variables outside the control of your ISP that can affect your speeds.

 

If you connect to a web server and download some content but the server side connection maxes out, and you're not getting full speeds - is that your ISP's fault? No, of course not.

 

If you can still utilize the leftover bandwidth on your connection on a different task (eg: connecting to a different web server), then the ISP is delivering on their end.

 

If - however, when you are connected to an otherwise throttled server, but you cannot use the rest of your bandwidth elsewhere, you're either suffering from a connection issue with the ISP, or congestion on the ISP network (which you could consider a connection issue, but I'm treating them as different things).

 

Basically all ISP's oversubscribe their networks to one degree or another. That's because they figure that people won't be all utilizing their connections to the fullest, at the same time - and they're right. When they sell grandma the basic package, she's not even going to use 10% of her available speed, let alone all of it.

 

The problem is when ISP's oversubscribe too much, and then you encounter peak time congestion. This is when an ISP has either been too aggressive getting new clients and has outpaced their network too quickly, or has been lagging in network upgrade investment. Both are common.

Yeah with Rogers it totally depends on your area. Some of their nodes are highly congested and oversubcribed - but others are totally fine.

 

I currently use Rogers, and I've been through several tiers. When I first got their service a couple of years ago, I was on the Gigabit Ignite package (I think it was originally 1000/50) - and I pretty much saw those speeds most of the time. I was paying $99/mo for Gigabit, unlimited, with the 2nd best Cable TV package. I couldn't pass up that deal.

 

I then downgraded to 500/20 when they wanted to renew at double the price. Then I recently downgraded again to 150/15 (I got some free Meraki hardware - a "Security Gateway" (router), Managed Switch, and AP - but the Gateway capped your connection at 250 Mbps max).

 

In all 3 cases, I more or less was able to max out the connection whenever I needed to.

I am talking just ISP.  Not for example that steam is the limit.

 

I totally know what they do, but in places where they do too much so in normal high hour (day high) can't even get 70% off the rated soeed, the rated speed should be set down. Its shit ISP then. I have never seen my ISP speed drop bellow 108 or whatever it was of 120, as it should be. UK just has shit ISP it seems.

 

Sorry if it's badly written I am tired.

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On 6.8.2018 at 10:35 PM, rcmaehl said:

My Thoughts:

This is a good step forward. The US still uses UP TO speeds which can be wildly off, especially in more populated areas or if someone on your shared line is torrenting hard.

Yeah the same in Germany.

But it more depends on the lenth of the landline and that the other side can't really guarantee the speed because they don't know how far you are away from the box.

 

I am lucky because I'm pretty close to that thingy and archieve more than adverdized speed, though barely...

And I'M pretty certain that there aren't many other people on the same line with this high speed.

 

It is even possible that I am the only one in my area that has the full 100MBit Down...

 

Might be the gouvernmentish mindset that still might reside in the German Telecom...


At least it seems to me that they are by far better than the "real private" competitor -> Vodafone...

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I think this new UK rules requiring accurate speed claims is a good advocacy for the consumers. I also hope that other companies especially in the US will also take the action to display realistic average speeds compared to maximum "burst" speeds".

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Virgin Media is the only choose for decent broadband:

C00156F7-5452-4236-8746-10178726B180.jpeg

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On 8/6/2018 at 9:51 PM, DildorTheDecent said:

Checked with BT as to what the fastest speed is I can get in my area. It's spot on with the average speed.

image.png.d84de56db60a7dbd45c87f30557da1ca.png

I used to work for them thats the avg speed per customer start an order place your post code get half way through the order and youll see your minimum assured speed with your average speed to your junction box.

#Murica(butinternational)parrotgang

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5 minutes ago, Camoxide said:

Virgin Media is the only choose for decent broadband:

C00156F7-5452-4236-8746-10178726B180.jpeg

Virgin media only cover 20% of the UK because they were digging ground up without council permission and got caught they also traffic manage at peak times distributing the highest speeds from a customer to other customers for fairer usage your not paying for totally unlimited broadband at the speed your promised because of this.

#Murica(butinternational)parrotgang

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