Apple prematurely ends IOS 14 updates and claims it never promised to support IOS 14 in the long term

[RejZoR]

11 hours ago, emosun said:

Big whoop i used android 4.2 for 8 years. You dont really need updates theyre just scams anyway.

 

6 hours ago, mr moose said:

I think what he is telling you is that you are trying to argue against an argument that he never made.    Emo never said anything about the importance of updates, that was something you imagined he was arguing. 

Oh really? Then what the fuck is the quote above? I somehow imagined a quotable post? There is no questionable cryptic meaning about it. If you can somehow manage to pull an opposite meaning out of it then you're a fucking magician.

[Blademaster91]

7 hours ago, mr moose said:

I think what he is telling you is that you are trying to argue against an argument that he never made.    Emo never said anything about the importance of updates, that was something you imagined he was arguing. 

Exactly, I don't see how @emosun or anyone in this thread was arguing against updates, just that not everyone needs the latest shiny phone with the newest OS, not everyone does secure things or does banking on their phone. I don't, and I could care less what OS version it is, as my phone is only for calls, texts, browsing, youtube, and for playing music. I also like a phone with a headphone jack so i'm definitely not buying an iphone, or dropping a ton of money on a phone that doesn't have it.

9 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Can people stop repeating this utter idiocy? Updates are very important on devices that store private data as well as user finances.

 

People keep repeating this nonsense because they are so used to utterly pathetic support by 99,99% of Android phone makers who can't be bothered to support anything for more than a 1 or 2 years and we're talking flagship phones costing stupid money. That 0.01% in Android segment is the Samsung which is the only bright exception with outstanding software support from Galaxy A50 series and above. Both, major OS updates as well as timely monthly security updates without skipping a single month.

 

Updates of apps and stuff that can be delivered through GooglePlay only goes as far. For rest you need firmware level updates and those are only delivered by phone vendor itself.

I don't see where anyone has said that you don't need updates, not everyone uses social media, or uses banking apps on their phone.

Most people don't care about the latest updates and use their phone until it breaks, or lines up for the latest phone anyway because they have to impress everyone with their $1200 apple status symbol.

8 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Yes, 6 and 5S are on the same update/iOS track (12.5.x). Just as a reminder: The 5S was released in 2013, there are phones out there that are still alive and Apple cares to support them with security updates in 2021. But I guess that's all planned obsolesence.

Yet apple already pushed planned obsolescence on those through updates that slowed down the phone, and the same company that pushes their consumers to replace the device instead of repairing it.

[RejZoR]

@Blademaster91

You don't see how anyone said they used 8 years old OS version and then claim updates are not needed and that they are literal scam? Ok, I guess I can't read dumb plain English then.

 

Also calling "planned obsolescence" on phones that are 7 years old at this point is a bit hilarious. Because things totally don't get slow by itself because the phone is getting really old and software is more and more demanding. No, Apple is secretly adding things that intentionally slow it down. Lol, the logic of you people. But when Android phone makers just leave you on Android 9 because they are just too lazy and can't be bothered supporting shit they sell for more than a year or two, that's not planned obsolescence, it's a "feature"?

[WhitetailAni]

8 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I also like a phone with a headphone jack so i'm definitely not buying an iphone, or dropping a ton of money on a phone that doesn't have it.

Ok this is one thing that annoys me. iPhone =/= no headphone jack.

You don't need to buy the newest iPhone. Older ones do not magically stop working once a new one comes out.

A 6S will suit you fine, heck - even a 6 will. If you want a bigger screen? 6+/6S+. They're not very expensive, too - the 6S+ goes for ~$120 for the 64GB option.

That doesn't sound like a lot, does it? Well, iOS doesn't take up nearly as much space as Android - with iOS 15 taking up about 7GB and iOS 12 about 5.5GB.

Want to pull the locked nature of iOS card? Jailbreaking. iOS 15 doesn't have one yet, but 12 does, and a jailbreak opens up many opportunities.

[Mark Kaine]

10 hours ago, Dracarris said:

but you can install custom ROM, how about that iLoser

tell me how!? SamsungA41, thank you! 

[RejZoR]

People who still beat the dead horse named "No Headphone jack" should just stop. If they think their complaining will suddenly get it back, we're far past that point and most vendors are now removing headphone jacks from mid rangers that used to be go to thing for people who still want that. Only ones left are budget phones with garbage specs. And calling out Apple alone on it is also a bit lame. Sure, they started it, but then blaming them because all other vendors also jumped on that bandwagon is a bit weird. It's also weird how people want phones to survive a 500m dive and in the same breath complain there is too much glue and that phones are hard to service. Which is it? Do you want it to be a submarine or do you want to be easily serviceable? The constant screaming for water resistance is what made vendors get rid of headphone jack because it's a large connector port that is inherently difficult to waterproof.

 

It is weird however that companies don't even try on their absolute flagships where you'd kinda expect the "zero compromises" and that would include high impedence headphone jack that hooks to very high end DAC. Which is kinda weird when you look at the specs and they brag the phone has 32bit 384kHz DSP and then no headphone jack. I don't think you can really make good use of such data rate and frequency on built in speakers and it makes even less sense with BT earbuds that get nerfed by BT codecs anyway. I bet when even budget phones are devoid of headphone jack port, they'll stick one on the most expensive model like Galaxy Ultra, make it very high impeence support and high end DAC and call it "unique feature" among all that are without it.

 

Anyway, enough about hardware in software discussion...

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, RejZoR said:

 

Oh really? Then what the fuck is the quote above? I somehow imagined a quotable post? There is no questionable cryptic meaning about it. If you can somehow manage to pull an opposite meaning out of it then you're a fucking magician.

That's thing about all this,  there are so many opinions and variance in what people "NEED" that what fits one persons personal usage does not necessarily fit yours.    Yes, emo thinks they are scams because he doesn't need them to continue functioning as per his normal usage.   That does not mean he is arguing they serve no purpose for anyone else.  Liker it or not.    Not everything is a black and white directed at you claim of "you must because".

 

EDIT: and for the record I am all for updates, I am always arguing for updates in windows as per the recommended settings,  but when you see so many complaints of iphones slowing or using more battery after an IOS update (by a company that makes both the hardware and the software and has complete control over both), this happens a little too often to be not scam like in its appearance, so I don't blame people for being wary of them.

[RejZoR]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

That's thing about all this,  there are so many opinions and variance in what people "NEED" that what fits one persons personal usage does not necessarily fit yours.    Yes, emo thinks they are scams because he doesn't need them to continue functioning as per his normal usage.   That does not mean he is arguing they serve no purpose for anyone else.  Liker it or not.    Not everything is a black and white directed at you claim of "you must because".

Dude, I'll quote it again in case you missed it twice somehow...

 

Quote

You dont really need updates theyre just scams anyway.

It's not "I think updates are scam" or "I feel like I don't need updates". It's using YOU in the sentence, implying what reader of that post is suppose to not need...

 

Also frankly, no one cares what one "personally" thinks in such specific cases, with all the security issues and flaws and privacy issues of data leaks all over the place, keeping software up to date is a good general practice that everyone should be following, just like it's wearing a seat belt in a car or wearing a winter jacket at -4°C or in terms of current situation, getting vaccinated. You always have bunch of people who "personally" think about such things and then bunch of people who take those personal opinions as guidance.

 

If updates are so pointless and scam, then entire software industry is just wasting billions trying to find and fix the security issues in software (and hardware). Also everyone who gets their money drained from bank account or personal data stolen should just shut up. Stupid crybabies.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Dude, I'll quote it again in case you missed it twice somehow...

I didn't miss it, I just didn't interpret it the way you did.    Again, not everything is black and white and not every interpretation is what was meant,  hell he even pointed out he never told anyone not to update or do anything specifically about security.  That's your argument based on his lack of care for updates which doesn't seem to have caused an issue for him. 

 

2 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

It's not "I think updates are scam" or "I feel like I don't need updates". It's using YOU in the sentence, implying what reader of that post is suppose to not need...

 

Also frankly, no one cares what one "personally" thinks in such specific cases,

 

 

Apparently you care a lot what "one personally thinks".   So much so you have turned this whole thread into a "you're wrong" debate about an opinion.

[RejZoR]

Oh yes, I'm again the "problematic one" for not encouraging idiocy and being vocal against it...

[Dracarris]

5 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Yet apple already pushed planned obsolescence on those through updates that slowed down the phone, and the same company that pushes their consumers to replace the device instead of repairing it.

I wondered when this old BS will be pulled out of the attic again. Here we go. For the millionth time. This was a thing on the 6S to prevent sudden shutdowns when ageing batteries could not deliver enough current for peak power anymore. No, this is not planned obsolescence, no matter how often you repeat it.

 

The fact that there are enough 8+ years old phones in the wild still working and in service for Apple to still release iOS updates for them speaks a very clear language. No matter how bad repairability is, iphones on average live a much longer live (often as 2nd or 3rd hand devices at a decent resell value) than phones from other brands before ending up in a landfill, and from an environmental standpoint this is most important.

 

And the one component that you have to replace sooner or later, the battery, can be - on every iphone.

[jagdtigger]

5 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

tell me how!? SamsungA41, thank you! 

Next time do your homework, samsung sunk pretty low in this regard in the past few years. The smear campaign is pretty real against custom FW's under the false pretense of security.....

[Arika]

8 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

wondered when this old BS will be pulled out of the attic again. Here we go. For the millionth time. This was a thing on the 6S to prevent sudden shutdowns when ageing batteries could not deliver enough current for peak power anymore. No, this is not planned obsolescence, no matter how often you repeat it.

So why didn't they tell anyone the reason for it until it blew up across the internet? Could it be they were hoping that people just thought something was wrong with their phones and that it was time to get a new one?

 

It was the same conclusion, actual planned obsoleneces and hiding the truth ends with people buying new phones

 

 

[RejZoR]

4 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

I wondered when this old BS will be pulled out of the attic again. Here we go. For the millionth time. This was a thing on the 6S to prevent sudden shutdowns when ageing batteries could not deliver enough current for peak power anymore. No, this is not planned obsolescence, no matter how often you repeat it.

 

The fact that there are enough 8+ years old phones in the wild still working and in service for Apple to still release iOS updates for them speaks a very clear language. No matter how bad repairability is, iphones on average live a much longer live (often as 2nd or 3rd hand devices at a decent resell value) than phones from other brands before ending up in a landfill, and from an environmental standpoint this is most important.

 

And the one component that you have to replace sooner or later, the battery, can be - on every iphone.

And they'll also always counter your argument with "they deliberately slowed phones down without telling users" because phone that's shutting down is so much better than one that doesn't, but still works and they just ignore the state of battery at which the slowdown was applicable. And when you say "if battery was replaced, performance was restored" and they'll always counter that with "Apple created huge profits because people replaced batteries that they wouldn't otherwise". You just can't argue with Apple haters. One thing is disliking soemthing, other is being a rabid hater. And there is plenty of them.

 

It's just hilarious how people jump at Apple because one model had an issue, but 99% of Android phones (the other 1% is Samsung which is only exception and partially Google) that have not bad but straight up attrocious software support long term, they don't see it as something intentional to sell new phones. And people got so used to getting zero software support that they are babbling about how updates "don't even matter". Dear god.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

This was a thing on the 6S to prevent sudden shutdowns when ageing batteries could not deliver enough current for peak power anymore.

 

 It wouldn't have been a problem if they didn't skimp on the battery in that model.  It was smaller than the plus models which lead to early degradation.   Poor design which led to premature failure which lead to an update reducing the usability of the phone. All shit options when they could have simply used the bigger battery.  Having to replace a battery early is not better for the environment or the consumer.   And releasing an update that slows a phone because they under spec'd the battery in the first place is just as bad as slowing the phone for any other reason.

 

6 and 6S had a 6.91wh battery

6  plus and 6s plus had a 10.4wh

That's a huge difference. 

 

Only the 6 and 6s and not the plus versions had degradation issues and any engineer with a rudimentary first year education will tell you that's exactly why.

https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-might-be-slowing-down-your-old-iphone-on-purpose

 

Also to add to what ArikaS just posted,  some would rightly argue that putting in a battery that can't supply the phones demands for any reasonable length of time would be considered planned obsolescence. I simply cannot believe the engineers at apple would be so amateur in putting a battery that small knowing what the phones power requirements draw. 

 

2 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

And they'll also always counter your argument with "they deliberately slowed phones down without telling users"

 

The actually didn't tell users, it was discovered by a reddit user and a geek bench developer.   As per above article.

 

I'm afraid the only "hilarious" thing here is peoples desire to ignore facts in order to defend a company that does not care about them,  just their money.

[jagdtigger]

5 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

It's just hilarious how people jump at Apple

And its hilarious how you defend something you shouldnt. There was no mention of this feature, no warning about the state of the battery, no warning about the function being active. They only admitted it after it blown up in their faces....

[Doobeedoo]

I mean, nww version is up, and available. Android side can only hope for such support one day. Flagship Android phones should recieve more version updates already.

[Dracarris]

25 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It wouldn't have been a problem if they didn't skimp on the battery in that model.  It was smaller than the plus models which lead to early degradation.   Poor design which led to premature failure which lead to an update reducing the usability of the phone. All shit options when they could have simply used the bigger battery.  Having to replace a battery early is not better for the environment or the consumer.   And releasing an update that slows a phone because they under spec'd the battery in the first place is just as bad as slowing the phone for any other reason.

It was an engineering mistake in ONE model line over the past 10 years. Cry me a river. But sure, conspiracy, Apple bad, even though they still support the 5S.

26 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I simply cannot believe the engineers at apple would be so amateur in putting a battery that small knowing what the phones power requirements draw. 

Yes. All out of pure and evil greed, definitely not a mistake. You are on to sth big here, I am sure.

 

And they intentionally put a small battery into the 6/6S to degrade early but not into the Plus models which launched at the exact same time? Sure. What you come up with here makes absolute zero sense.

47 minutes ago, Arika S said:

So why didn't they tell anyone the reason for it until it blew up across the internet? Could it be they were hoping that people just thought something was wrong with their phones and that it was time to get a new one?

 

It was the same conclusion, actual planned obsoleneces and hiding the truth ends with people buying new phones

No. Apple was simply trying to solve an engineering problem and hope it would go unnoticed. I don't know in which world you live where people immediately run to the Apple store and buy a new phone for several hundred dollars after your old phone slowed down after an update. The phone had a battery issue, and either you limit peak current consumption or experience unexpected crashes/shutdown, simple as that.

 

If there ever was a plan/conspiracy to intentionally slow down old phones (consistently for all models without technical reasoning) for the sake of pushing to buy new this would've

a) been super stupid as it would've been a matter of time until people figure it out,

b) risk user frustration and drive them completely away from the Apple ecosystem which is the last thing Apple wants

c) stands in stark contrast to the OS suppport policy of the company.

[RejZoR]

29 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 It wouldn't have been a problem if they didn't skimp on the battery in that model.  It was smaller than the plus models which lead to early degradation.   Poor design which led to premature failure which lead to an update reducing the usability of the phone. All shit options when they could have simply used the bigger battery.  Having to replace a battery early is not better for the environment or the consumer.   And releasing an update that slows a phone because they under spec'd the battery in the first place is just as bad as slowing the phone for any other reason.

 

6 and 6S had a 6.91wh battery

6  plus and 6s plus had a 10.4wh

That's a huge difference. 

 

Only the 6 and 6s and not the plus versions had degradation issues and any engineer with a rudimentary first year education will tell you that's exactly why.

https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-might-be-slowing-down-your-old-iphone-on-purpose

 

Also to add to what ArikaS just posted,  some would rightly argue that putting in a battery that can't supply the phones demands for any reasonable length of time would be considered planned obsolescence. I simply cannot believe the engineers at apple would be so amateur in putting a battery that small knowing what the phones power requirements draw. 

 

The actually didn't tell users, it was discovered by a reddit user and a geek bench developer.   As per above article.

 

I'm afraid the only "hilarious" thing here is peoples desire to ignore facts in order to defend a company that does not care about them,  just their money.

Except iPhone 5s had pretty much the same capacity... And you're comparing regular with plus which is a larger phone that always had larger battery. What's even your point?

 

We're on iPhone 13 and people still drag this shit out as some sort of "gotcha". Every single god damn time to a point it's really annoying. This battery thing with iPhones was 7 years ago. Just frigging let this horse beaten to a pulp die already. I'm surprised everyone is not still screeching about exploding Samsung Notes even today... But Samsung is not Apple and no one really gives a shit. But anything Apple, boy everyone will be bitching for decades apparently.

[Dracarris]

12 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

We're on iPhone 13 and people still drag this shit out as some sort of "gotcha". Every single god damn time to a point it's really annoying. This battery thing with iPhones was 7 years ago. Just frigging let this horse beaten to a pulp die already. I'm surprised everyone is not still screeching about exploding Samsung Notes even today... But Samsung is not Apple and no one really gives a shit. But anything Apple, boy everyone will be bitching for decades apparently.

Couldn't have worded it better. It's annoying on levels I couldn't even imagine before.

[Arika]

43 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

No. Apple was simply trying to solve an engineering problem and hope it would go unnoticed

"if people realise their phones got slower, then they will probably end up buying a new one because they assume their current one is just old, this is great for us!"

 

43 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

I don't know in which world you live where people immediately run to the Apple store and buy a new phone for several hundred dollars after your old phone slowed down after an update.

We live in a time where people go out and buy a new phone just because the number at the end is bigger...

 

43 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

The phone had a battery issue, and either you limit peak current consumption or experience unexpected crashes/shutdown, simple as that.

so TELL PEOPLE. They didn't until they were called out for it which make it intentionally malicious REGARDLESS of the actual reason for it. Not a single person on this planet would realise their phone got slower and immediately think "oh it must be my battery"

 

 

EDIT: and on the topic of the Samsung Note 7 explosions, that is a BIG difference:

Samsung: has an engineering mistake, they issue a recall when it was discovered and publicly acknowledge the issue

Apple: has an engineering issue, they try to hide it, play it down and enjoy the side effect of more money coming their way until they are called out on it.

 

Apple's behavior is worth reminding people of to show that they really don't care about their customers at ALL.

[Mark Kaine]

2 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Next time do your homework, samsung sunk pretty low in this regard in the past few years. The smear campaign is pretty real against custom FW's under the false pretense of security.....

yeah, tbh you're right i was just looking for a cheap phone and i did recall some time ago samsung were easy , but then didnt do any research whatsoever lol. i gotta say this is the worst phone i had... especially the UI, even things like the keyboard are borderline unusable :  /

[Dracarris]

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

"if people realise their phones got slower, then they will probably end up buying a new one because they assume their current one is just old, this is great for us!"

No, just no. That is in the heads of some people on the internet, but that's about it.

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

We live in a time where people go out and buy a new phone just because the number at the end is bigger...

No one in their right mind does that and back when that happened was another time.

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

EDIT: and on the topic of the Samsung Note 7 explosions, that is a BIG difference:

Indeed. One company fucked up so badly that their customers got severly physically hurt while the other one caused slower phones. Tell me again, which one is it that people are still bitching about? But hey exploding batteries is a minor thing and totally comparable to the Apple battery issue. One is about safety, possibly burning people for life, the other about performance - I guess they are equal. And sure, if Samsung had that slowdown issue, they would've treated it totally better.

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

Apple's behavior is worth reminding people of to show that they really don't care about their customers at ALL.

Sure. Which is why they still release security updates for 8 year old phones and full-feature OS updates for 6.5 year old phones. Your accusations are absolutely ridiculous.

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

so TELL PEOPLE. They didn't until they were called out for it which make it intentionally malicious REGARDLESS of the actual reason for it. Not a single person on this planet would realise their phone got slower and immediately think "oh it must be my battery"

 

 

EDIT: and on the topic of the Samsung Note 7 explosions, that is a BIG difference:

Samsung: has an engineering mistake, they issue a recall when it was discovered and publicly acknowledge the issue

Apple: has an engineering issue, they try to hide it, play it down and enjoy the side effect of more money coming their way until they are called out on it.

 

Apple's behavior is worth reminding people of to show that they really don't care about their customers at ALL.

But it's not true that they don't care about their customers at all. The whole point of the CPU throttling was to prevent phones from suddenly shutting down and to... y'know, help you use your phone longer. The issue was a lack of communication stemming from Apple's "we know what's best" mindset, not a sinister plot to force early upgrades. 

 

Also, please don't pretend Samsung was deeply concerned about the safety of its customers. The initial Note 7 recall was a  simple swap with devices that were fundamentally unchanged, based on a hasty and unfounded presumption about the cause. Samsung's goal was to get the Note 7 back on sale as quickly as possible, not to protect customers. It was only when it was clear that phones were still catching fire that Samsung did what it should have done all along: remove all Note 7s from sale until it could identify the problem, and only then decide if it was worth re-releasing a fixed version.

 

For goodness' sake, one of the fires after the initial recall grounded a Southwest Airlines flight... what would have happened if people were seriously hurt or died as a result of those still-faulty Note 7s? What Apple did was problematic, but Samsung was extremely irresponsible and would probably have been pilloried if there were any fatalities or crashes as a result.

[RejZoR]

@Dracarris

Yeah, but you see, they only release software updates to make your phone slower, so you buy a new one! Meanwhile Android phone vendors literally offer absolute bare minimum support because Google had to demand it because they were so shit at it and no one finds that as "pushing users to buy new phones because they get left behind with old OS". I literally ditched Android because of that. I was so tired of this crap because every single time something new and cool came with new version of Android, whatever brand phone I had, they always conveniently decided I wasn't eligible for it. Yet people still somehow don't see it as intentional thing to push sales of new devices...