Apple prematurely ends IOS 14 updates and claims it never promised to support IOS 14 in the long term

[Dracarris]

1 minute ago, RejZoR said:

Yeah, but you see, they only release software updates to make your phone slower, so you buy a new one! Meanwhile Android phone vendors literally offer absolute bare minimum support because Google had to demand it because they were so shit at it and no one finds that as "pushing users to buy new phones because they get left behind with old OS". I literally ditched Android because of that. I was so tired of this crap because every single time something new and cool came with new version of Android, whatever brand phone I had, they always conveniently decided I wasn't eligible for it. Yet people still somehow don't see it as intentional thing to push sales of new devices...

yeah the argumentation lines some people on this forum employ to push their "Apple universally bad" agenda/narrative are totally ridiculous

[Forbidden Wafer]

8 hours ago, RejZoR said:

People who still beat the dead horse named "No Headphone jack" should just stop.

No, we should not. It doesn't have a headphone jack, which is criminal IMHO.

I will keep buying Sony phones for that very specific reason, and because they have a dedicated camera button.

[RejZoR]

Just now, Forbidden Wafer said:

No, we should not. It doesn't have a headphone jack, which is criminal IMHO.

I will keep buying Sony phones for that very specific reason, and because they have a dedicated camera button.

Oh really, iPhones don't have headphone jacks. How about all the other 300 phones that don't have it either? And to which your argument will again be "but Apple started it first!". Yeah well, no one forced others to copy Apple like parrots yet they decided to do it anyway and no one complains over those, just over iPhones. Heh. This is getting tiring and boring.

[Forbidden Wafer]

1 minute ago, RejZoR said:

How about all the other 300 phones that don't have it either?

They don't have it either. All criminal.

[emosun]

17 hours ago, mr moose said:

I think what he is telling you is that you are trying to argue against an argument that he never made.    Emo never said anything about the importance of updates, that was something you imagined he was arguing. 

Appreciate your support but she* not he

 

But yeah some people take me saying a single line as a 50 page notarized essay on how to not to update any technology regardless of use case.

 

Whenever i come across guys trying that hard to assert their dominance I always try to brush them off as they just arent worth any amount of effort.

[Colty]

10 hours ago, RejZoR said:

But when Android phone makers just leave you on Android 9 because they are just too lazy and can't be bothered supporting shit they sell for more than a year or two, that's not planned obsolescence, it's a "feature"?

I don't think anyone said that. It sucks, I went through it on three LG phones. I never put a custom ROM on it, the phone still got security patches 6 years after launch. LG is commonly ridiculed for not bringing software feature updates. Which is fair, I lived with that. But I still got security patches. 

There are many scenarios where new software features slow down a device. The easiest thing I can point to is a machine barely able to run win7 that gets upgraded to win10. Of course it's going to have issues. It meets the minimum spec, but it would run better on 7 or even XP. Though on the higher end hardware, you're going to be fastest on the latest software. (In most circumstances)

The discussion here is benchmarks And the numbers agree with you.


As for a lot of other comments in this thread, here's my 2 cents.

I don't like Apple as a company or their products. I used to do cell phone repair, it was 95% iPhone batteries and screens. I don't think they're difficult to repair. The only thing about the modern phones that makes them a bit trickier is that you lose water proofing if you don't reseal it. Other than that, (and the stupid adhesive strip Apple puts under the battery for no good damn reason) I don't see why anyone complains. Yes, special screw bit is stupid, but it's not the end of the world.

Apple perhaps should have been more open about the battery issues. A simple memo to current owners of those phones would have sufficed. A notification or alert before you update. This was a poor business decision. I don't think it was malicious, I don't think Apple is evil (besides the horrible working conditions for their overseas factories), I just think it was a dumb decision. 

So in short -
My old Android phone got 2yrs of feature updates and 6yrs of security updates. This is fine with me. The phone never felt slower as it aged. I appreciated that, I was also able to run a custom ROM or download an app to add those features. (Picture-in-picture, split screen anything, chat heads for anything, screen recording, ect)

Apple did a dumb, not an evil. The battery thing is old news, idc. Other than phones with battery issues, the benchmarks show no degradation. (Unless the phone can somehow detect a benchmark and compensate)

Feature creep kills your performance, not the company. Buy a new phone if you want it to all run smoothly. Just like your computer. Your excel sheet now tanks performance? Web pages are too busy for that Pentium? Go get a new system. 

 

[RejZoR]

Yeah, but that's not intentional slowdown, that's just inherent fact that you're using more advanced and more of features on existing hardware. Like for example allt he neural goodies on iOS 15. I'm well aware that they may take a bit longer on my XR than on iPhone 12 or 13 that have faster Neural Engine. But it's there and it does its job. But it's more demanding, not that it's SLOWING my iPhone down.

 

I can't comment on LG phones as I never used them, but I had Samsung back when they weren't so good with updates (Galaxy S2 period), HTC, Huawei, Xiaomi and they all sucked at updates. Security updates? What even is that. When feature updates went dry, so did security updates. And for all vendors it's an arbitrary rollercoaster of guesswork. With iPhones, it's now established that you're guaranteed 5 years of major updates and 1-2+ of extra security only updates. And it has been this way since iPhone 4 basically. And updates are dropped at same moment for entire world. No guesswork, no speculations, no asking all over the place when you'll get something. You just always get it the moment there is news about new update. People can say all they want about Apple, iPhones or IOS, but this is just so far above entire smartphone industry that it's not even funny how much better it is on iPhones. It's so good that I'll have hard time returning to Androids bullshit even if it's better than it was 5 or 10 years ago.

[Blademaster91]

12 hours ago, FakeKGB said:

Ok this is one thing that annoys me. iPhone =/= no headphone jack.

You don't need to buy the newest iPhone. Older ones do not magically stop working once a new one comes out.

A 6S will suit you fine, heck - even a 6 will. If you want a bigger screen? 6+/6S+. They're not very expensive, too - the 6S+ goes for ~$120 for the 64GB option.

That doesn't sound like a lot, does it? Well, iOS doesn't take up nearly as much space as Android - with iOS 15 taking up about 7GB and iOS 12 about 5.5GB.

Want to pull the locked nature of iOS card? Jailbreaking. iOS 15 doesn't have one yet, but 12 does, and a jailbreak opens up many opportunities.

I'm used to newer phones that almost all have 6"+ screens, so I'd rather not use a small phone with a small screen, and the battery would probably only last a day with occasional use, I'd rather have a phone that can get through at least a day without charging.

Also the iphone 6 is old, doesn't get OS updates, and was affected by touch IC failures, so I wouldn't trust one for daily use as a main phone.

I don't see the point of jailbreaking, it seems like a pain to have to reinstall and re-jailbreak with every new OS, and the whole point people buy iphones for is the OS being locked down.

[whispous]

22 hours ago, emosun said:

Well unfortunately i dont exist for you to argue with. And also i dont care about convincing other people , my phone lasted 8 years and theirs dont. Nobody that paranoid is convincable anyway. I actually forget how much older i am than other people so outdated software is a whole new un explored world to them full of mystery. Lol.

Ok Emosun doesn't want to argue, so this isn't a message for them:

 

Don't listen to "updates are scams". It's terrible, TERRIBLE incorrect advice. Do not bury this attitude deep in your mind or you will forever be playing catch-up with basic security and suffering for it.

[Blademaster91]

13 hours ago, RejZoR said:

@Blademaster91

You don't see how anyone said they used 8 years old OS version and then claim updates are not needed and that they are literal scam? Ok, I guess I can't read dumb plain English then.

 

Also calling "planned obsolescence" on phones that are 7 years old at this point is a bit hilarious. Because things totally don't get slow by itself because the phone is getting really old and software is more and more demanding. No, Apple is secretly adding things that intentionally slow it down. Lol, the logic of you people. But when Android phone makers just leave you on Android 9 because they are just too lazy and can't be bothered supporting shit they sell for more than a year or two, that's not planned obsolescence, it's a "feature"?

No they said it was a scam to them, I still don't see where they argued that updates aren't necessary for everyone.

And no the planned obsolesce on the iphone 6 was done when the phones were still relevant, and the software being more demanding isn't really an excuse when apple makes both the hardware and software.

I can get by just fine with Android 9, I don't get the obsession people have to need the latest shiniest phone and OS.

8 hours ago, Dracarris said:

I wondered when this old BS will be pulled out of the attic again. Here we go. For the millionth time. This was a thing on the 6S to prevent sudden shutdowns when ageing batteries could not deliver enough current for peak power anymore. No, this is not planned obsolescence, no matter how often you repeat it.

 

The fact that there are enough 8+ years old phones in the wild still working and in service for Apple to still release iOS updates for them speaks a very clear language. No matter how bad repairability is, iphones on average live a much longer live (often as 2nd or 3rd hand devices at a decent resell value) than phones from other brands before ending up in a landfill, and from an environmental standpoint this is most important.

 

And the one component that you have to replace sooner or later, the battery, can be - on every iphone.

The phones were slowed down because the battery wasn't a sufficient capacity for the phone, and if it wasn't planned obsolescence then apple would've told their consumers to replace the battery with a recall on all affected phones, instead of slowing down phones to make them unusable and waiting until they got sued.

I'd like to see some statistics on how many people keep an 8+ year old iphone, but I'm guessing its in the minority because most apple consumers are wealthy enough to always buy the latest thing because a higher number is better and a newer more expensive phone is seen as a status symbol.

Every phone will need a new battery eventually, but you shouldn't be forced into replacing it sooner because the company that makes both the hardware and software designed it so the battery goes bad a year after people bought it.

[Colty]

49 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Yeah, but that's not intentional slowdown, that's just inherent fact that you're using more advanced and more of features on existing hardware. Like for example allt he neural goodies on iOS 15. I'm well aware that they may take a bit longer on my XR than on iPhone 12 or 13 that have faster Neural Engine. But it's there and it does its job. But it's more demanding, not that it's SLOWING my iPhone down.

 

I can't comment on LG phones as I never used them, but I had Samsung back when they weren't so good with updates (Galaxy S2 period), HTC, Huawei, Xiaomi and they all sucked at updates. Security updates? What even is that. When feature updates went dry, so did security updates. And for all vendors it's an arbitrary rollercoaster of guesswork. With iPhones, it's now established that you're guaranteed 5 years of major updates and 1-2+ of extra security only updates. And it has been this way since iPhone 4 basically. And updates are dropped at same moment for entire world. No guesswork, no speculations, no asking all over the place when you'll get something. You just always get it the moment there is news about new update. People can say all they want about Apple, iPhones or IOS, but this is just so far above entire smartphone industry that it's not even funny how much better it is on iPhones. It's so good that I'll have hard time returning to Androids bullshit even if it's better than it was 5 or 10 years ago.

I can't comment on old-school Samsung. Only phone of theirs I had was an S20+ before my Pixel 6 Pro and I just... didn't like it.

Regardless, with the Pixel, I've got at least until 2024 of feature updates and until 2026 of security updates. 5yrs is enough for me. I'm not saying that's perfect, it's not matching Apple even, but it's enough for me to feel like I'll get a good value out of the phone. I'm a techy, I'll upgrade within 3 or 4 years even if I love the phone. 

 

Also, if you bought your phone right from Google, instead of your provider, you get updates right away, no BS from your cell company holding back the updates. So, your "so far above entire smartphone industry" comment thing doesn't apply to Google. 

[mr moose]

6 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Except iPhone 5s had pretty much the same capacity... And you're comparing regular with plus which is a larger phone that always had larger battery. What's even your point?

 

We're on iPhone 13 and people still drag this shit out as some sort of "gotcha". Every single god damn time to a point it's really annoying. This battery thing with iPhones was 7 years ago. Just frigging let this horse beaten to a pulp die already. I'm surprised everyone is not still screeching about exploding Samsung Notes even today... But Samsung is not Apple and no one really gives a shit. But anything Apple, boy everyone will be bitching for decades apparently.

You can't just compare the battery size alone across phones,  each phone has different power draw characteristics.  How long a battery lasts is completely dependent on it's size and the device it is powering,  nothing else changes that.   The problem here is you and Daccarius see any criticism of apple as unfair,  the fact is you both made untrue claims about the iphone6 battery issue and when shown how the problem lies solely at apples feet you now both want to try and deflect from that.  

 

The facts still remain, apple designed a shit product that didn't last, tried to fix it by making it even more shit and not telling anyone.  That is shit behavior and they knew damn well that it would cause people to upgrade,   and you guys want to pretend nothing is wrong with that?  It's no wonder they keep doing shit things to their customers.     

 

3 hours ago, emosun said:

Appreciate your support but she* not he

My apologies.

 

3 hours ago, emosun said:

But yeah some people take me saying a single line as a 50 page notarized essay on how to not to update any technology regardless of use case.

 

Whenever i come across guys trying that hard to assert their dominance I always try to brush them off as they just arent worth any amount of effort.

So true.

[rikitikitavi]

What @RejZoRgot 'frustrated' about is people making statements that CAN'T be interpreted as sarcastic or facetious and are only supported by comments like 'didn't say that', 'don't care to elaborate' etc - it is hard to have a conversation when this is the way people talk. It can't be dismissed as 'you don't know english as I do' case either.

[mr moose]

6 minutes ago, rikitikitavi said:

What @RejZoRgot 'frustrated' about is people making statements that CAN'T be interpreted as sarcastic or facetious and are only supported by comments like 'didn't say that', 'don't care to elaborate' etc - it is hard to have a conversation when this is the way people talk. It can't be dismissed as 'you don't know english as I do' case either.

What RejZor got upset about was one person saying they don't care about updates.

 

Literally one person said they don't care about updates and consider them to be a scam.   Somehow that has been interpreted as people need to be protected from an individuals opinion.  

 

Why is it such a big problem that someone has had more problems with updates than without updating?  Do you guys have the same opinion with windows updates?  There are lots of people who have problems with windows updates,  I don't see RejZor chiming in ever single windows thread to this degree decrying the foolishness of people for not having a good experience with windows.     

 

 

It literally boils down to if you can accept that other people have different experiences and thus different opinions.  It has never been an argument about the validity of updates.

[rikitikitavi]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

What RejZor got upset about was one person saying they don't care about updates.

 

Literally one person said they don't care about updates and consider them to be a scam.   Somehow that has been interpreted as people need to be protected from an individuals opinion.  

 

Why is it such a big problem that someone has had more problems with updates than without updating?  Do you guys have the same opinion with windows updates?  There are lots of people who have problems with windows updates,  I don't see RejZor chiming in ever single windows thread to this degree decrying the foolishness of people for not having a good experience with windows.     

 

 

It literally boils down to if you can accept that other people have different experiences and thus different opinions.  It has never been an argument about the validity of updates.

As I've implied before, the way someone's idea is communicated makes a difference.

 

Some comments might get under someone's skin for a multitude of reasons, but better communication will at least mitigate the possible 'outburst'.

I would not have joined the conversation if @emosunwould have used less 'declarative' statement (or would address it differently).

Example: 'it is a scam' vs 'it is a scam, because ...'

 

Second thing is the topic itself - security/reliability. If it was about a feature or something unrelated to security/safety/reliability/etc, I don't think that a comment would get as much attention.

Example: 'a security/safety opinion that might be promoting irresponsible/unsafe/damaging behaviour' vs 'I like red colour and so should you'

[Imbadatnames]

On 1/21/2022 at 7:21 PM, Mel0nMan said:

I could be wrong but didn't they say that they'd support 14 for a while? 

I mean it’s been 5 months 

[RejZoR]

A meerkat understands English better than some humans whose primary language is allegedly English...

[Imbadatnames]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

What RejZor got upset about was one person saying they don't care about updates.

 

Literally one person said they don't care about updates and consider them to be a scam.   Somehow that has been interpreted as people need to be protected from an individuals opinion.  

 

Why is it such a big problem that someone has had more problems with updates than without updating?  Do you guys have the same opinion with windows updates?  There are lots of people who have problems with windows updates,  I don't see RejZor chiming in ever single windows thread to this degree decrying the foolishness of people for not having a good experience with windows.     

 

 

It literally boils down to if you can accept that other people have different experiences and thus different opinions.  It has never been an argument about the validity of updates.

When people are paying a grand or more for a phone they should be getting actual software updates. Not updating also makes your device insecure which is just dumb. 
 

Windows updates on 11 have been fine for me personally there’s literally no reason not to do it. 

[mr moose]

15 minutes ago, rikitikitavi said:

As I've implied before, the way someone's idea is communicated makes a difference.

 

Some comments might get under someone's skin for a multitude of reasons, but better communication will at least mitigate the possible 'outburst'.

I would not have joined the conversation if @emosunwould have used less 'declarative' statement (or would address it differently).

Example: 'it is a scam' vs 'it is a scam, because ...'

 

Second thing is the topic itself - security/reliability. If it was about a feature or something unrelated to security/safety/reliability/etc, I don't think that a comment would get as much attention.

Example: 'a security/safety opinion that might be promoting irresponsible/unsafe/damaging behaviour' vs 'I like red colour and so should you'

 

1 minute ago, Imbadatnames said:

When people are paying a grand or more for a phone they should be getting actual software updates. Not updating also makes your device insecure which is just dumb. 
 

Windows updates on 11 have been fine for me personally there’s literally no reason not to do it. 

Discussions already been had.   It's not about the validity of updates, it almost never was, people are more upset that someone has an opinion they can't deal with. 

 

She doesn't care about updates,  and there is no way to communicate that any clearer,  deal with it.

[Imbadatnames]

Just now, mr moose said:

 

Discussions already been had.   It's not about the validity of updates, it almost never was, people are more upset that someone has an opinion they can't deal with. 

 

She doesn't care about updates,  and there is no way to communicate that any clearer,  deal with it.

Don’t really care it’s more the practice of artificially segmenting products by only offering a few years of updates. What’s that you’d like this feature that your current phone could run perfectly? Oh too bad your phone is 18 months old, you’ll get the update sure but in about 3 years time. Oh your phone is 3 years old but could easily use this feature? No update for you! buy a new phone instead. 

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Imbadatnames said:

Don’t really care it’s more the practice of artificially segmenting products by only offering a few years of updates. What’s that you’d like this feature that your current phone could run perfectly? Oh too bad your phone is 18 months old, you’ll get the update sure but in about 3 years time. Oh your phone is 3 years old but could easily use this feature? No update for you! buy a new phone instead. 

What's that got to do with the post in question?     The post you quoted of mine has nothing to do with updates for iphone or their validity, it is solely about people not being able to deal with the fact some people don't care about them and have experiences that are different.

 

Personal I think security updates are important, but trying to separate them from the ones that have adverse effects can be difficult,  and that is for all phones not just android.   So some people just don't use their phone for security sensitive things and don't bother updating.  It's not a particular hard concept to understand.

 

 

[Dracarris]

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

The problem here is you and Daccarius see any criticism of apple as unfair,

Not at all.

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

the fact is you both made untrue claims about the iphone6 battery issue

No.

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

The facts still remain, apple designed a shit product that didn't last, tried to fix it by making it even more shit and not telling anyone.

If you think having a phone that runs at full speed but suddenly turns off is better than a throttled but reliable phone - well then you have every right to your own, strange opinion. Ignoring once again the fact that this is really, really, really old news and gets a vastly disproportionate amount of attention compared to the doo-doos of other brands.

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

and they knew damn well that it would cause people to upgrade

Mere assumptions and conspiracy-like accusations by you and some other well-known forum members.

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

It's no wonder they keep doing shit things to their customers.     

Shit things like supporting 8yo phones. What shitty behavior, really. I am so glad Android manufacturers don't do that.

4 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

I'd like to see some statistics on how many people keep an 8+ year old iphone, but I'm guessing its in the minority

If true, even more kudos for Apple that they go all the way to continue supporting platforms that have a small user base only.

4 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

because most apple consumers are wealthy enough to always buy the latest thing because a higher number is better and a newer more expensive phone is seen as a status symbol.

Wow, what a bunch of random, ultra-cheapo stereotype prejudices without any factual backup. Really, you are going to pull that card? This is the type of stuff that usually 13yo comment on 9gag. On this basis any discussion with you is completely pointless. I really wonder what drives people like you to try so hard to crap on a brand.

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Not at all.

No.

You both claimed apple was proactive in fixing the issue, you are pretending that it wasn't discovered by users and went on unresolved for a while beofre apple took responsability.

 

4 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

If you think having a phone that runs at full speed but suddenly turns off is better than a throttled but reliable phone - well then you have every right to your own, strange opinion. Ignoring once again the fact that this is really, really, really old news and gets a vastly disproportionate amount of attention compared to the doo-doos of other brands.

Mere assumptions and conspiracy-like accusations by you and some other well-known forum members.

Again side stepping the fact that apple caused the problem, tried sweep it under the carpet with an update they further reduced the phones life and DID NOT TELL THEIR CUSTOMERS.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Shit things like supporting 8yo phones. What shitty behavior, really. I am so glad Android manufacturers don't do that.

 

Again, ignoring what actually happened.  You can't ignore actual shit things they have done just because you think overall they are better.  By pointing to shitty android practices to defend apple only shows us that you understand it is a shit thing to do, and thus no excuse for apple either.

[mr moose]

It's pretty silly that people in this thread want to hold a single user to account for an opinion that is neither here nor there and their only defense is an extremely semantic one that still is open to variance,  yet they will not accept documented realities that absolutely happened. 

[Dracarris]

8 minutes ago, mr moose said:

You both claimed apple was proactive in fixing the issue, you are pretending that it wasn't discovered by users and went on unresolved for a while beofre apple took responsability.

Never did I claim that.

8 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Again side stepping the fact that apple caused the problem, tried sweep it under the carpet with an update they further reduced the phones life and DID NOT TELL THEIR CUSTOMERS.

Not at all. Simply a reaction to the statement you cited before.

8 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Again, ignoring what actually happened.  You can't ignore actual shit things they have done just because you think overall they are better.  By pointing to shitty android practices to defend apple only shows us that you understand it is a shit thing to do, and thus no excuse for apple either.

Again, not at all what I am doing. Just because I am not beating this already 1000x dead horse again to death does not mean I am ignoring it. I moved on from an issue that happened several years ago. That's it. And when you claim Apple treat their customers (today) like shit I bring valid points that contradict that. Now you can continue to rant about a company/brand that you could as well just ignore, I'll leave it here.