Apple prematurely ends IOS 14 updates and claims it never promised to support IOS 14 in the long term

[Imbadatnames]

4 minutes ago, Distinctly Average said:

Of course it is wrong to only support a device for less than the warranty lasts in many regions. We all agree on that. We are also consumers so have a choice. We do not have to buy such products, and should refuse to do so. I certainly would not knowing that I would be forced to replace it just because I want to use it as intended and it is now no longer safe to do so. 

Unfortunately you really don’t. You have android or apple, one adequately supports their devices the other does not. 

[RedRound2]

22 minutes ago, Distinctly Average said:

Had you not been so aggressive and not filled your post with expletives the responses may have been more positive. You are more than capable of a well reasoned debate, but when the grumpy you kicks in the responses take a wrong turn. We’ve all done it, so I do understand. Sometimes it is better to take a step back before responding and re-read, calm down, then make a far better post than an expletive filled knee jerk reactionary one. It is beneath your abilities.

Don't expect any positive response if you ever dare to defend or say anything good about Apple in this forum.

 

And I understand his frustration because the mental gymnastics these cult like haters go to invalidate or complain about every small thing while largely ignoring rest of the competitions/options incompetence is truly mind blowing. Like really mind-blowing.

 

I had myself caught with the same people in forever doomed thread like this multiple times before. I've just learnt that there is absolutely no point in indulging in any logical conversation with them. 

[Commodus]

12 hours ago, Arika S said:

But to me it IS a "sinister plot", or as i would more prefer to call it "malicious" because of the above bolded quote from myself, these things don't just happen at a company with as much control over it's own products as Apple and hide behind "whoops we forgot to tell people".

If the end result is people thinking "my phone is old and slow" and the only way people know to "fix it" is to buy a new phone, because again, however many people would think "oh i just need to replace my battery to get my performance back" (before apple told everyone why they did it), then it doesn't matter WHY it happened; Malicious or not, Intentional or not, Apple or not, Contempt for their customers or not. Phones slows down with NO explanation until they were called out.

 

 

I'm just going to take a page out of @emosun's book and just laugh because it's clear to me there is no point in continuing this, because no matter how many times i've had to explain the above on this forum, people just seem to think "nah, apple is good, i don't care about they're sketchy practices, just consume product" and like to argue "it was years ago" while also being the same people that bring up other company's sketchy pasts from even longer ago. Some people's minds just can't be changed.

so thats a big ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ from me.

 

If you're happy defending Apple for it's big middle finger(s, because there's been a LOT) to it's customers, more power to you, but don't be surprised when other people look at the same situation and think "what the fuck".

All i can do now is laugh.

You don't have any proof it was malicious, though, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest the contrary: the very nature of the throttling, Apple's history of delivering many iOS updates to older phones (and, in recent years, optimizing for its oldest devices), its focus on customer satisfaction ratings rather than pure market share... you get the idea.

 

This isn't strictly defending Apple, just explaining that the problem was Apple's typical "we know best" attitude preventing necessary transparency and flexibility. To use Hanlon's Razor: never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. Apple made a stupid decision; you don't have to like it or even forgive it, but you do have to accept we live in a world where many bad things happen due to mistakes rather than deliberate intent.

 

And I use Apple gear because it works well, forms a slick ecosystem and gets robust updates. I have few objections that run so deep I'd refuse to use a company's tech; I just find it amusing that the people who think Apple's practices are unforgivable are often the same who run into the arms of companies that are demonstrably similar or worse. As I like to put it: if the people boycotting Apple were internally consistent with their moral outrage, they'd immediately destroy every Samsung product they own and demand the imprisonment of its leadership. (I'm fine with using Samsung products, but it's still corrupting South Korean politics to this day.)

[RejZoR]

@Commodus

The evidence it was malicious they use every single time is: "yeah, but Apple lost that lawsuit". Looking at it now, I can understand why Apple just said "fuck it, you can't reason with these morons, way may just eat loses here and move on". And most people moved on. It's 7 years since and dumb people still drag this shit out as an argument for anything. Literally anything. This time it was... checks the notes... to argue against longevity of software updates. And no matter how many improvements and quality of life they brought to old phones, they always argue "updates are there solely to slow down phones". You can literally see people who regurgitate these same dumb talking points that they never even used any iPhone and they just repeat the shit they heard from a chain of 5 other people who didn't use an iPhone either. They just read it somewhere. And it's so stupid it's painful to read.

 

And people don't seem to know several years ago I was one of those people who said "I'll never ever own anything Apple". And I literally said just that and if I'd dig enough back in time I could even quote myself on that. That statement was at one point overlapping with me ditching Google's creepy spying ass and years of disappointment of trash Android updating experience. I had HTC that dropped me after a single update, I had Huawei that dropped me after single update and I had Xiaomi that dropped me after two. And that was just few years ago and it was every single time after Google announced some cool feature that I miraculously wasn't eligible just for that very version. Every single god damn time for 8 years in total.

 

I was so annoyed by Google that I ditched it entirely, so far that only thing I was still using from Google was Android phone. And at that point it clicked. I hate Google, I can't stand idiotic Android updating nonsense, I may just as well go with iPhone to ditch Google entirely and I'll make this work no matter how stupid iPhone or iOS is after years and years of reading how horrible iPhone is and how you literally can't do anything at all with it because it's so locked down and restricted. And because this was my first iPhone experience, I wasn't sure if iPhone XR was a good choice. It was my first iPhone. Would I risk it and go with higher model X or not. I still remember reading specs the day before buying XR and worrying if "terrible 720p LCD display" (shit people were throwing around and still do to this day!) would be an issue when everyone was hyping AMOLED 1080p and 1440p displays on phones and shitting on XR's LCD. And then decided because it's my first try I'm not going all out, it can't possibly be as bad as people say it is. As it turns out, it wasn't as bad. Not even remotely. I've had S-AMOLED, I've had 1080p and XR's horrible terrible awful "720p LCD" turned out to be so good I literally don't give a shit what specs it has on paper. It ticks all the checkboxes of a good display that I just plain don't care and all the fearmongering by whining idiots were entirely unnecessary. Spot the pattern at this point? It was always "reading dumb shit about Apple" that was fearmongering me from even trying it and always having doubts through entire process.

 

3rd year on iOS now (XR came with iOS 12 and now I'm on iOS 15.2.1) and only reason I so often argue in Apple's favor is because of how much bullshit and lies people feed into my head prior me buying an iPhone. If it wasn't for stupid chance of me just trying it out no matter what, I'd never ever see with my own eyes how it's to get software updates for so long in such timely fashion without any bullshit waiting because of 300 phone models and some regional seeding of updates bullshit. It's just absolutely flawless and sublime. Something that's just unthinkable on most Android phones even today and whose news sections are still full of people absolutely clueless when they'll get updates, if at all.

 

I don't want to be those cretins who shit on Apple on every possible occasion, I want to be that one guy that should have inspired me years ago to try an iPhone sooner, but I never met one because everyone was too busy endlessly shitting on Apple and everything they make. I want to be that guy that wants to let people who are still disappointed by Android updates to give iPhone and iOS a chance and experience how it is to be excited about new features every single fall of the year. And it is. Every September of the year is like Christmas coming earlier because you know for a fact you'll be getting a new major update. Something I just never was sure on ANY Android phone I owned to date. And like I said it always turned out I didn't get the major update when it was the most exciting one. Color me surprised when all Android phone vendors just desperately try to sell you a new device as often as possible instead of giving you a reason to stick with it for longer.

[RedRound2]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

snip

This.

 

Quote

I'll make this work no matter how stupid iPhone or iOS is after years and years of reading how horrible iPhone is and how you literally can't do anything at all with it because it's so locked down and restricted.

And especially this.

I know so many people who were swayed by the online narratives about Apple that avoided using Apple products, including my own mother. Its only when they use they realize how much better certain experience is compared to having an android device

 

The amount of irrational hate Apple gets is mind numbingly stupid. And really the only thing these people have to do is to look at Apple's broader success throughout the world over the years to be proved wrong about their "opinions". Its simple as majority wins

 

To be clear, I have my problems with Apple. But seriously then lengths some people go over here and bringing up non-trivial things as issues/conspiracy theories is quite absurd. 

[Distinctly Average]

6 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

Unfortunately you really don’t. You have android or apple, one adequately supports their devices the other does not. 

Some of the Android based brands are far better at log term support than others. I a, not sure we can say IOS vs Android as the latter covers many manufacturers. Some are truly awful and do make Apple look very good by comparison. Apple do a good job of supporting devices for as long as they are really going to physically last, with some exceptions. Some of the Android brands do a good job but not quite as good. Is that due to the nature of Android? Surely with it being open source it should be better, but in reality each brand has turned their device into more of a closed shop. I can see a time where legislation, probably the EU, forces a minimum term of support for electronics. As it stands, consumers are quite rightly miffed. From my point of view it is currently very poor for environmental reasons too.

[Imbadatnames]

3 minutes ago, Distinctly Average said:

Some of the Android based brands are far better at log term support than others. I a, not sure we can say IOS vs Android as the latter covers many manufacturers. Some are truly awful and do make Apple look very good by comparison. Apple do a good job of supporting devices for as long as they are really going to physically last, with some exceptions. Some of the Android brands do a good job but not quite as good. Is that due to the nature of Android? Surely with it being open source it should be better, but in reality each brand has turned their device into more of a closed shop. I can see a time where legislation, probably the EU, forces a minimum term of support for electronics. As it stands, consumers are quite rightly miffed. From my point of view it is currently very poor for environmental reasons too.

Your best bet is google and Samsung with offer 3 years which isn’t good enough. You can do lineage OS on some phones but that’s a volunteer open source project that you can’t rely on and isn’t official support. Plus with manufacturers starting to lock the boot loader there’s fewer and fewer you can do it with every year. 
 

The issue for me is that it’s seen as a pro for apple for longer support where in my opinion for a new £800+ phone 5 years is the minimum and android should be matching it at the same price point 

[Distinctly Average]

3 minutes ago, Imbadatnames said:

Your best bet is google and Samsung with offer 3 years. You can do lineage OS on some phones but that’s a volunteer open source project that you can’t rely on and isn’t official support. Plus with manufacturers starting to lock the boot loader there’s fewer and fewer you can do it with every year. 

I have been told Sony are quite good. Not had a Sony phone myself although had an Ericsson many years ago, pre iPhone years.

 

I have an iPhone as my personal device, and a Samsung for work. The latter I find frustrating with certain apps only storing data internally and not on the sd card. Worse still is having multiple competing apps, one from Android and one from Samsung for instance, both taking up space doing the same job and at times interfering with each other. You just don’t have that with IOS. That and  IOS syncs perfectly with my M1 iPad Pro that I am currently using to type this.

 

I am convinced that particularly Samsung could do a wonderful job but are held back by the Android ecosystem. Sadly we are stuck with it. M$ failed to pry their OS into the market and it cost them a mint. It would take a very brave, and rich, manufacturer to try again. Gone are the days when we had 6+ phone operating systems. I suppose we do have Linux phones but so far they have been useless as well as niche products from niche brands.

[Imbadatnames]

2 minutes ago, Distinctly Average said:

I have been told Sony are quite good. Not had a Sony phone myself although had an Ericsson many years ago, pre iPhone years.

 

I have an iPhone as my personal device, and a Samsung for work. The latter I find frustrating with certain apps only storing data internally and not on the sd card. Worse still is having multiple competing apps, one from Android and one from Samsung for instance, both taking up space doing the same job and at times interfering with each other. You just don’t have that with IOS. That and  IOS syncs perfectly with my M1 iPad Pro that I am currently using to type this.

 

I am convinced that particularly Samsung could do a wonderful job but are held back by the Android ecosystem. Sadly we are stuck with it. M$ failed to pry their OS into the market and it cost them a mint. It would take a very brave, and rich, manufacturer to try again. Gone are the days when we had 6+ phone operating systems. I suppose we do have Linux phones but so far they have been useless as well as niche products from niche brands.

Microsoft failed because they didn’t understand the mobile OS more than anything 

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, Imbadatnames said:

Microsoft failed because they didn’t understand the mobile OS more than anything 

My personal phone is still an old ass Nokia MS phone, it's actually on the technical and performance level a great mobile OS. It was just a barren desert feature and Apps wise which I don't personally care about but 99.9% of everyone else does lol.

 

For me still has the nicest email client, including Microsoft's current iOS and Android Outlook app.

[Distinctly Average]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

My personal phone is still an old ass Nokia MS phone, it's actually on the technical and performance level a great mobile OS. It was just a barren desert feature and Apps wise which I don't personally care about but 99.9% of everyone else does lol.

 

For me still has the nicest email client, including Microsoft's current iOS and Android Outlook app.

I would agree with that. Had them at work for three years. When the battery on the second one swelled up in my pocket, getting very toasty so close to my man globes, that I was put off. That was when I switched to IOS.

[RejZoR]

34 minutes ago, Distinctly Average said:

Some of the Android based brands are far better at log term support than others. I a, not sure we can say IOS vs Android as the latter covers many manufacturers. Some are truly awful and do make Apple look very good by comparison. Apple do a good job of supporting devices for as long as they are really going to physically last, with some exceptions. Some of the Android brands do a good job but not quite as good. Is that due to the nature of Android? Surely with it being open source it should be better, but in reality each brand has turned their device into more of a closed shop. I can see a time where legislation, probably the EU, forces a minimum term of support for electronics. As it stands, consumers are quite rightly miffed. From my point of view it is currently very poor for environmental reasons too.

The thing is, Android fanboys do just that. They always present "Android" as this unified thing and they always pick and choose best features from each and every vendor and present it as "Android". While it's true that there are things that became present in AOSP Android, large majority of them are only present in individual vendor's ROMs. And some have copied some between each other. But you can't claim "Android" as whole is better than iOS because Samsung has this and that and Oppo has something third and OnePlus has this feature no other has and so on. Hell, I wouldn't even consider Google's version as broad interpretation of Android functions as they have exclusive features that are only found on Pixel phones that later got copied by others (like magic eraser on Galaxy S21 FE). I'd only do that with AOSP because what's there is guaranteed to be present on every single Android phone out there.

 

iOS on the other hand, while it has certain limitation or stupidities, it's an unified experience that you can't really break or mess it up and it just works. I can't imagine running Android phone for 3 years without a single factory reset. Not a single Android phone managed to withstand that, they all started having weird dumb issues or they just became unbearably slow for absolutely no fucking good reason. Factory reset, a hour or two of installing stuff back and voila, fast again. iOS just seems to do whatever maintenance magic on OS updates and it's always fresh and snappy without any time wasted trying to figure it out. I've tried nearly all possible launchers, tons of tweaks and gadgets on Android, I've flashed ROM's, I've rooted stuff, I've hacked them to bits and in the end none of it mattered because it was always inconsistent mess that caused problems that made me revert everything back to whatever vendor of the phone provided originally. And that was usually the best experience. So, why not just use iOS then. And from my experience, it was the right decision.

 

I may try Android again after iPhone XR, most likely out of curiosity, but my expectations are rock bottom low at this point and I don't think I'm going to go through with it. I don't think Android has improved at all in these 3 years that I was on iOS. Unless Apple somehow cocks up the design of new iPhones so hard that I'll have to go to Android phones again. Then again lame spineless Android phone makers are so lame they copy everything big from Apple, so chances are I'd be returning to Android just to get whatever Apple's thing is copied there. Just worse most of the time.

[mr moose]

9 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

Again I do not give a shit.

Then stop quoting me. 

[suicidalfranco]

On 1/21/2022 at 8:17 PM, emosun said:

Big whoop i used android 4.2 for 8 years. You dont really need updates theyre just scams anyway.

5.0, 7 years and still counting

[tridy]

Sometimes it becomes impossible to use an older Android device because of a crucial app, like a bank authenticator pops up the minimum version of Android one can use it on. I had literary only 1 app running on WiFi at my parents on an old(er, 2012) Kurio Kids Tablet running 4.0 Android. Then, one day last (2021) year it just stopped working without any warnings in advance and actually locked them out, since to use a new device with the bank auth app one needs the old one to transfer from. Getting to the bank Covid style was a quest of its own.

[Imbadatnames]

3 hours ago, leadeater said:

My personal phone is still an old ass Nokia MS phone, it's actually on the technical and performance level a great mobile OS. It was just a barren desert feature and Apps wise which I don't personally care about but 99.9% of everyone else does lol.

 

For me still has the nicest email client, including Microsoft's current iOS and Android Outlook app.

It’s not that the mobile OS doesn’t work, I remember the links phones when they came out, it’s just they didn’t understand why iOS and Android were popular and just tried a path that didn’t work 

[Imbadatnames]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

Then stop quoting me. 

Maybe stop pretending that the world revolves around you 

[IkeaGnome]

Can we just all be friends?

https://knowtechie.com/two-boneheaded-fanboys-stab-each-other-over-an-apple-vs-android-dispute-417/

[Colty]

4 hours ago, RejZoR said:

The thing is, Android fanboys do just that. They always present "Android" as this unified thing and they always pick and choose best features from each and every vendor and present it as "Android". While it's true that there are things that became present in AOSP Android, large majority of them are only present in individual vendor's ROMs. And some have copied some between each other. But you can't claim "Android" as whole is better than iOS because Samsung has this and that and Oppo has something third and OnePlus has this feature no other has and so on. Hell, I wouldn't even consider Google's version as broad interpretation of Android functions as they have exclusive features that are only found on Pixel phones that later got copied by others (like magic eraser on Galaxy S21 FE). I'd only do that with AOSP because what's there is guaranteed to be present on every single Android phone out there.

I understand what you're saying, and agree to a certain point. But I have had LG, Samsung, and now Google. All the "vendor specific" features I've cared about I can download anyway.

Tap to wake? Started as an LG thing, but when I showed my friends how handy that was, they were able to download an app and have it working.
Split screen? Some vendors were quicker than others, but you could always download an app to remedy that.
Prefer a different SMS app? You can download a different one.
Gallery? Same thing.
Prefer Google's camera app? Same thing. I used the "Gcam" app on my S20+.
Different lock screen? Easy.
Launchers? You bet!

The only thing I can't download is an IR shooter... Still miss that from my G3 and V20.


Also, I agree with you partially on the format/reset thing. I still see plenty of iPhone/iPad slow-down being resolved by a reset. iOS does something better than Android in whatever "bloat" metric that is, but it's not like iOS is immune. 

[Moonzy]

5 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

I have been told Sony are quite good.

Long time Sony phone user here (Xperia Z1, Z3, Z2(gone backwards because Z3 was bad), 10ii, 10iii(current phone))

 

Don't think Sony can compete with Apple in term of software updates (like getting latest OS)

Your phone is more likely to be stuck on whatever OS it phone comes with rather than going to the next OS

 

Does it bother me? As long as apps I use are supported I don't really mind, and I change my phone too often to really face that issue

 

But I can definitely agree that apple software support is top notch, even if they're terrible in other aspects (right to repair and what not)

 

I might give Apple phone a try after reading this thread, though maybe only if they're not anti-repair

[duncannah]

It was a dumb idea anyway, nothing positive came out of it (especially since the supported list is the same as others have mentioned), only hurt adoption... It could've been something specifically proposed for devices that are no longer supported, perhaps.

[IkeaGnome]

16 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

Does it bother me? As long as apps I use are supported I don't really mind, and I change my phone too often to really face that issue

 

But I can definitely agree that apple software support is top notch, even if they're terrible in other aspects (right to repair and what not)

 

I might give Apple phone a try after reading this thread, though maybe only if they're not anti-repair

That's very similar to where I'm at. 

One big downside to Android is that there's so many. The last phone I got, the company came out and said a month or two later that they were no longer making phones(LG). 

I keep using the anti-repair to justify myself not going to Apple. That being said, at 28 years old, the last phone I "repaired" was a new battery for a Nokia brick prepaid. 20+ years ago. 

If that's my only "real" justification, maybe once this phone goes out, or Apple has some cool new perk, I might just be looking into them.

 

Edit: The other one I keep using it storage. I use Spotify for music, Youtube for videos on plane rides to and from work. I thought I used a lot more storage than I do. 

74.95 GB on internal memory. 74.6 of 128 on my SD card. 

Maybe I don't need the SD slot as much as I thought.  

[Distinctly Average]

29 minutes ago, Colty said:

The only thing I can't download is an IR shooter... Still miss that from my G3 and V20.
 

Often when the wife looses the sky remote, she uses an app on her iPhone. It controls via Bluetooth but she still points her phone at the tv. She doesn’t seem to get the difference between radio waves and light.

[Moonzy]

20 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

That being said, at 28 years old, the last phone I "repaired" was a new battery for a Nokia brick prepaid. 20+ years ago. 

For me, it's about having the ability to walk into a phone repair shop and have them say "yeah we can order parts to fix this"

 

Sony phones are niche in my country so parts are hard to come by, but you just have to wait (as I'm still waiting for the repairs on my 10ii for a month now)

 

Apple (from what Louis Rossman said) will actively prevent parts being given to anyone at all, which means you're more likely to just get a new phone if anything goes bad

But seeing how old iPhone still gets software updates is pretty intriguing, none of the android phone I owned (HTC, Xiaomi, Samsung, and Sony) even come close, I remember only one of my phone ever getting a OS update, and I think it's the Z1(?) The rest never had an OS update

 

Fun fact: last time I repaired a phone was my Z2, I did a battery swap with my other Z2 (I have too many Sony phones lmao)

Don't like how they glue everything together, but... Bleh

[Chiyawa]

15 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

Snip

Yeah. Wish phone manufacturer still offer swappable battery. I remember back in the days where Nokia 3310 still dominant, changing the battery is as simple as pop out the back cover and pull the battery out, then insert the battery in and put the cover back. Ah, good times. And the phone battery last up to 1 week per charge. I remember going to college without my charger and it last until I return to my home the next week.