Incompatibility with some DRM could mean certain games won't work with Alder Lake - list of incompatible/patched games added, with workaround for some

[Delicieuxz]

November 5 update: list of incompatible / to-be-patched games, and a potential workaround for others is in this post: 

 

 

 

Intel's Alder Lake CPUs May Not Work With Older Games

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Intel recently shared a developer guide for its forthcoming 12th Generation Alder Lake processors.
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Intel has confirmed in the document that Alder Lake will have compatibility issues with DRM solutions unless the provider issues a special update for the protection in question. Consequently, game developers that implemented the DRM into their games will have to do the same.
...
Many, if not all, modern triple-A titles carry some type of DRM protection to defend against piracy. Intel specifically mentioned the Denuvo algorithm, however, we suspect that other protections, such as VMProtect or SecuROM will likely necessitate an update as well. Certain games, like Assassin's Creed Origins even have multiple layers of protection, probably requiring multiple updates.

 

Intel Codename Alder Lake (ADL) Developer Guide

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Are there any potential compatibility issues with Data Relationship Management (DRM) middleware?

 

If your existing or upcoming game uses a DRM middleware, you might want to contact the middleware provider and confirm that it supports hybrid architectures in general, and the upcoming Intel ADL platform in particular. Due to the nature of modern DRM algorithms, it might use CPU detection, and should be aware of the upcoming hybrid platforms. Intel is working with leading DRM providers such as Denuvo* to make sure their solutions support new platforms.

 

As someone who was weighing whether to wait for Zen 4 or settle for Alder Lake, this news does a lot to tip the scale back in the favour of Zen 4. While it's likely that most publishers will patch their big-selling games, the idea that some miscellaneous titles simply won't be accessible on Alder Lake (without cracking them) isn't too attractive.

 

But maybe this will cause publishers to see the errors of their ways and stop implementing intrusive DRM that stands a chance to become incompatible with future technology. What's that you say - not a chance?

 

 

BTW, after Microsoft shut-down Games for Windows Live, it took Bethesda over 8 years to remove it from Fallout 3 (which might've only happened at Microsoft's direction, following their acquisition of Bethesda), and it took Rockstar almost 7 years to remove it from GTA IV, while some games, like Section 8: Prejudice, never had it removed. TrackMania Sunrise didn't get its Starforce DRM removed, and so became basically unplayable without a virtual machine on OSes newer than Vista (though, I see there's a newer guide to get it running on Windows 10).

[tikker]

6 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

SecuROM

Ah SecuROM. Fond memories of that piece of... work.

6 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

But maybe this will cause publishers to see the errors of their ways and stop implementing intrusive DRM that stands a chance to become incompatible with future technology. What's that you say - not a chance?

Sadly I don't think so. They probably only care for the first year or two of profits and then they'll release installment N+1 to fool us into forgetting about it.

 

I assume such an update to e.g. Denuvo will need to be passed along through a client-side update of the game? Nvm, your first quote mentions that. I think you're right that the big players will probably spend the effort, but I fear a lot of old games will be lost to the void. Unless this move means we'll lose Intel to the void until AMD decides to come with its big-little architecture.

[jaslion]

I don't see publishers even updating any of their already replaced games in a series with new drm and they for sure aren't removing it.

 

This is a HUGE problem as if this happens for drm in games what will happen for other software? Will that also just no longer work? Like this is a massive issue. Just imagine a whole bussines software no longer working, netflix not allowing you to stream to your computer,... all that stuff can be affected if this is true.

 

On another note how hacked together is this cpu if it's being detected as 2 different cpu's basically?

[tikker]

6 minutes ago, jaslion said:

On another note how hacked together is this cpu if it's being detected as 2 different cpu's basically?

This aspect does make sense to me. In the end the combination of "strong" and "weak" cores does make it effectively two different CPUs. At first glance it isn't detected as 2 different CPUs, and it seems it may be more a case of software needing to make explicitely sure you run on a certain type of core:

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CPU Topology Detection

Properly detecting CPU topology is critical for obtaining optimal performance and compatibility for applications running on hybrid processors such as Alder Lake. Previously a developer could count the total number of physical processors on a system, and it was easy to assume parity for performance and power utilization. Some assumptions could be made for hyper-threaded CPUs, for example, doubling the number of physical processors to get the number of logical processors. In a hybrid CPU, the old assumptions no longer hold true, and developers must fully enumerate the available logical processors on a system to determine the power and performance characteristics of each logical processor.

Though I'm sure there are all sorts of boobytraps and unexpected twists in there.

[jagdtigger]

23 minutes ago, jaslion said:

aren't removing it.

companies greedy pigs: "Are you nuts? That would cost us millions because those filthy pirates wouldnt buy the newest iteration which is the same thing but with newer drm and a few cheap tweaks!"
And they wonder why all the hate and why piracy is well and alive no matter how hard the DRM is....

 

/off
Arent this got posted before here or i am imagining things?

[AlexGoesHigh]

I wonder if setting a CPU affinity rule to only use P cores would fix this DRM behavior.

 

Which i figure could be a recurring thing on a bunch of legacy software that wont work or run badly on ADL.

[Mark Kaine]

Isn't that exactly what happened with windows 10? I have a bunch of games i can't play because of

30 minutes ago, tikker said:

SecuROM

...

 

And Microsoft's "solution" is that I'm supposed to download some "cdrom hacks"?  How's that about "security"? (this hypocrisy is exactly why I have turned off windows updates btw)

[jaslion]

12 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Isn't that exactly what happened with windows 10? I have a bunch of games i can't play because of

...

 

And Microsoft's "solution" is that I'm supposed to download some "cdrom hacks"?  How's that about "security"? (this hypocrisy is exactly why I have turned off windows updates btw)

Some story different period. I mean starforce drm didn't work past xp and was still used during the time of vista. The solution? Go pirate the game. Like that was the legit response people got at the time. So what even was the point of using it then?

[Mark Kaine]

57 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

But maybe this will cause publishers to see the errors of their ways and stop implementing intrusive DRM that stands a chance to become incompatible with future technology. What's that you say - not a chance?

Yeap, not a chance unless legislation changes... as mentioned above, if they cared they would have stopped after the SecuROM , safedisc, etc disaster, but instead, they blamed Microsoft (not unfounded) and then doubled down with "online DRM".

 

Personally I really liked the old DRM with codes on the cd cover/manual, never had an issue with it and it was reusable,  meaning you could easily sell older games , as you should. 

 

51 minutes ago, tikker said:

Denuvo

At least Denuvo is not meant as a "permanent solution" its basically "rent a DRM" hence most publishers remove it after 1-2 years (in my experience) I dunno for other DRMs and "anti cheats" tho, I guess they're to stay forever...

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Delicieuxz said:

 

But maybe this will cause publishers to see the errors of their ways and stop implementing intrusive DRM that stands a chance to become incompatible with future technology.

 

Will happen about the same time the Sun runs out of energy

[Moonzy]

1 hour ago, Delicieuxz said:

But maybe this will cause publishers to see the errors of their ways and stop implementing intrusive DRM that stands a chance to become incompatible with future technology. What's that you say - not a chance?

I can already see a new GTA V, this time for Intel Alder Lake

 

Reminded me of that time when cracked game would run smoother than one with DRM, maybe games with DRM disabled will run fine

When a cracked version does better than original, you know you done fucked up

[HanZie82]

Every developer that uses Securerom needs their databases violated and records erased.
If you hate your customers that much how about you just start planting potatoes instead of making games!!!!!

[Delicieuxz]

Intel: List of Games Affected by DRM Issue in 12th Gen Intel® Core™ Processors for Windows 11* and Windows® 10

 

Expected to be patched to work with Alder Lake:

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• Anthem*
• Bravely Default 2*
• Fishing Sim World*
• Football Manager 2019*
• Football Manager Touch 2019*
• Football Manager 2020*
• Football Manager Touch 2020*
• Legend of Mana*
• Mortal Kombat 11*
• Tony Hawks Pro Skater 1 and 2*
• Warhammer I*
• Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla*
• Far Cry Primal*
• Fernbus Simulator*
• For Honor*
• Lost in Random*
• Madden 22*
• Maneater*
• Need for Speed – Hot Pursuit Remastered*
• Sea of Solitude*
• Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order*
• Tourist Bus Simulator*
• Maneater*

 

Not currently expected to be patched:

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• Ace Combat 7*
• Assassins Creed Odyssey*
• Assassins Creed Origins*
• Code Vein*
• eFootball 2021*
• F1 2019*
• Far Cry New Dawn*
• FIFA 19*
• FIFA 20*
• Football Manager 2021*
• Football Manager Touch 2021*
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint*
• Ghost Recon Wildlands*
• Immortals Fenyx Rising*
• Just Cause 4*
• Life is Strange 2*
• Madden 21*
• Monopoly Plus*
• Need For Speed Heat*
• Scott Pilgrim vs The World*
• Shadow of the Tomb Raider*
• Shinobi Striker*
• Soulcalibur VI*
• Starlink*
• Team Sonic Racing*
• Total War Saga - Three Kingdoms*
• Train Sim World*
• Train Sim World 2*
• Wolfenstein Youngblood*

 

Intel has also provided a workaround that is reported to work for some games.

 

Why Can Digital Rights Management (DRM) Crash Some Games on 12th Gen Intel® Core™ Processors?

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1. Power-up system and enter system BIOS setup.
2. Enable switch Legacy Game Compatibility Mode to ON (one-time only) in BIOS.
3. Save BIOS setup changes and exit.
4. Boot to OS.
5. Toggle Keyboard Scroll Lock key ON.
6. Launch affected game title.
7. Toggle Keyboard Scroll Lock key OFF after ending game title.

 

[Falkentyne]

For Honor works fine for me?  No workaround needed (I don't even know how to play this game but starting a single player game worked).

[CarlBar]

8 minutes ago, Falkentyne said:

For Honor works fine for me?  No workaround needed (I don't even know how to play this game but starting a single player game worked).

 

Your avatar is appropriate right now;).

[jagdtigger]

I think a legislative intervention is long overdue. Studios either update the game or remove the drm, or if they attempt to remove games from marketplaces in retaliation they should get fined into oblivion....

[Levent]

Hmm, arent all of those Denuvo titles? Edit I just read the older OP: yes, mostly. I am more surprised to see SecuROM being still used.

[demonix00]

4 minutes ago, Levent said:

Hmm, arent all of those Denuvo titles?

Looks like it to me (although some might have a mix of denuvo and some other anti tamper tool that hogs system resources and kills the games performance).

[Arika]

awesome! intel are releasing a list of games that should be pirated instead of being bought legitimately.

 

DRM is fine as a concept but when it punishes legit purchases MORE than pirates, then your DRM should be immediately purged (looking at you denuvo)

[RejZoR]

And this is why I prefer to buy things on GOG if humanly possible. DRM is cancer I've been dealing with since 20 years ago. I still remember how SecuROM took a dump on me when I moved from Windows 98 to Windows XP and C&C Tiberian Sun just displayed "Wrong CD inserted" bullshit. So I had to use No-CD crack to play the game. Carmageddon 2 had similar issues because of DRM. Meanwhile pirates were laughing all the way just playing games without ANY issues. And that trend has been continuing for years and decades since. Fuck you DRM, you're cancer to gaming.

[SolarNova]

This will have the biggest impact on any game running client side DRM + an always online service.

 

Purely client side games already have 'fixes' for the DRM.

 

 

[Falkentyne]

Tested For Honor, Jedi Fallen Order (Origin), Shadow of the Tomb Raider.

No problems running any of these, afaik no workaround or patches used.

[SorryBella]

If game publishers want to keep spending money on useless, proven to be not working at all piece of software, they should just bundle a month of mcafee instead.

[Kisai]

On 11/5/2021 at 12:22 PM, Delicieuxz said:

 

 

Intel has also provided a workaround that is reported to work for some games.

 

Why Can Digital Rights Management (DRM) Crash Some Games on 12th Gen Intel® Core™ Processors?

 

Basically we're back to "MSDOS boot floppy" actions.

 

On 11/5/2021 at 4:05 PM, Arika S said:

awesome! intel are releasing a list of games that should be pirated instead of being bought legitimately.

 

DRM is fine as a concept but when it punishes legit purchases MORE than pirates, then your DRM should be immediately purged (looking at you denuvo)

This has never been the case.

 

The way DRM get's implemented is often a problem, because they are implemented with the idea that the pirate is going to just copy the media. Pretty much every single CD/DVD protection measure did absolutely nothing to protect the game, because all it took to remove the protection was to make an image of the disc with a program that can raw-copy the disc, and then mount the disc rather than burn it. That was Nero's entire selling point even if it was not marketed as such.

 

People are not stupid. If it can be copied, it will be copied. People make all kinds of excuses like "I need a backup in case the company abandons support" but the actual kinds of reasons are more mundane, like "computers no longer have ODD's". The protection measures never considered that the media would go extinct. Even though we saw this happen with floppies as well. You could still buy computers with floppy controllers in 2008.

 

The entire purpose of DRM is to keep people from copying the media while it's in stores. When it's no longer in stores, the DRM is no longer important, and reasonable game devs should patch out the media DRM on the installed copy when they are no longer selling physical copies. Since digital games can be sold in perpetuity, there is no reason to ever remove the DRM, which brings us right back to the same problem with removing the floppy and ODD, because the OS and hardware will change. You'd think devs looked at the Mac and go "ok, they changed CPU's 3 times, surely PC's will never do that", yet Windows has been on multiple CPU's before as long as MacOS has. 

 

At any rate, every protection can be removed if there is no online component, which is why you see so much GAAS stuff now. The server adds absolutely no value to the game because the game is basically single-player or asymmetric play (eg the kind of thing you'd expect from VGA Planets of 1992) , and the GAAS parts are basically just intended to rob you blind. Most (Unity-based) games with GAAS can just be patched to play offline and have infinite GAAS credit to buy all the trash the game wants to sell you, and you quickly realize the game only has about an hour of play once all the time-based road-cones are no longer an issue.

 

And when those GAAS's are sunset? All the money you invested in it, is gone. Or will it?

So if NFT's take hold in games, forget DRM being a problem, now GAAS will never be able to be sunset, because the "operators" will be sued for destroying their "NFT" property. Traditionally MMO games claimed copyright on everything in the game, including "your" stuff you collect in the game. If that becomes NFT's, then you'll start seeing class-action lawsuits every time a game gets shut down.

 

Basically NFT's in GAAS takes DRM to a level that will push lawmakers to decide if NFT's should be considered the same as physical property. So then not only will pirates not be able to pirate copies of games, but nobody will ever be able to "own" the entire game. We're not talking about serial numbers on assets anymore, but actual "you can't use this asset, only look at it, if the owner lets you"

 

Now imagine some future hardware design where CPU can't process the NFT permissions.

 

[Jito463]

On 10/17/2021 at 6:19 AM, jaslion said:

Some story different period. I mean starforce drm didn't work past xp and was still used during the time of vista. The solution? Go pirate the game. Like that was the legit response people got at the time. So what even was the point of using it then?

Reminds me of when I switched fully to XP Pro x64, back around 2005 or so.  One of my favorite games at the time was Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory (still the best Splinter Cell game to date, bar none), and it absolutely would not work due to the Starforce DRM.  I posted on the Ubisoft forum and hounded support for weeks before giving up and "fixing it" myself.

On 10/17/2021 at 6:38 AM, leadeater said:

Will happen about the same time the Sun runs out of energy

To be fair, while I'm loathe to compliment Epic Games as they currently are, back in the UT days they would put copy protection on the game for the first 2-3 weeks and then patch it out afterwards.  That kind of copy protection mentality I can understand and get behind, because it's only meant to serve as a deterrent during the initial sales rush at launch.