[rumor] nvidia is reducing shipments on purpose this holiday season to keep the street prices high.

[xAcid9]

4 hours ago, adarw said:

YouTuber "Morse's law is dead" has had "trusted" sources tell him

 

IMO speculation/leaked/rumor shouldn't go to Tech News especially when the source is questionable. 

[MageTank]

4 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Issue is, NVIDIA is not the one pocketing the difference and that's really what's bothering them the most. MSRP is technically their intended price for the market at which they still make a healthy profit. So, if that card with 799€ MSRP gets sold for 1500€ in the store, the difference goes into pockets of stores, not NVIDIA (or whatever AIB). It's the stores making big bucks from the inflated prices and shortages, not NVIDIA. I very much doubt NVIDIA is selling stuff at inflated prices to stores and AIB's. You can't advertise card for 799€ and then sell it for 1200€ to AIB's/stores.

Except it's not the stores making big money at all on this. I can't speak for stores outside of the US, but my personal experience in the tech retail chain is one where orders are placed through wholesale logistics companies that work with manufacturers and (if you're lucky) the AIB partners themselves. Both parties agree to the price on a per purchase order basis and that price is subject to change on every subsequent purchase order. Retail stores are then given terms to agree to, such as: You can't place an item on sale beyond this percentage for X amount of days, preventing retailers from simply undercutting their competition by a significant margin and promoting "fair competition" on product launches, products must have X amount of space on the shelf dedicated to displaying X percentage of the box art (physical store requirement) and our marketing materials must be displayed on the product overview pages (digital storefront requirements). There are also other deals that take place, such as "We won't sell you any GPU's unless you buy our motherboards too", preventing stores from simply buying a ton of GPU's in and of themselves.

 

I can tell you for certain, GPU prices have increased from these logistic companies/AIB's to retailers & system integrators and you're foolish if you think they are going to sell at the advertised MSRP and do so at a loss. They have to scale the price up to meet what they are paying and there is almost zero margin left by the time they do price them higher. Retail stores make their money on attachments (warranties, marked-up cables/accessories, assembly services, etc. They can't do so if they price the cards so absurdly high that people can't afford to buy anything else. Then they are left with aging product that have to be discounted and sold at a loss once their vendors push for shelf space on newer models. Your logic just doesn't make much sense for retailers to be the ones trying to profit on supply shortages when they stand to lose the most out of this. Not to mention they also get the worst PR out of this because most people aren't buying their GPU's directly from AIB's, they are trying to buy them from local retailers, and it's the local retailers that take the heat for the increased prices, long lines and lack of product on shelves.

 

Allow me to say this... People need to abandon the concept of MSRP. It's a myth. It has never been real. The market dictates product pricing, not manufacturers. Anyone that thinks MSRP is binding is suffering from wishful thinking. We can all point our fingers at whomever we wish to blame, but at the end of the day, it's our fault (the consumer) for giving scalpers a reason to continue buying these products and it's certainly not the retailers fault for supply shortages, pandemics causing reduced workforce throughout the distro-chain and raw material prices skyrocketing. Anyone here running a business where aluminum is concerned certainly knows my struggle right now...

[MageTank]

7 minutes ago, James Evens said:

Next up: New container with 500'000 RTX3060 found.

https://www.techpowerup.com/276498/a-christmas-miracle-500-000-nvidia-rtx-3080-cards-found-in-lost-shipping-container

This is fake. I can tell by the pixels and because I've seen quite a few shops in my time.

[Blademaster91]

3 hours ago, porina said:

There ae few good reasons to keep making an older product if you have a newer product which replaces it, primarily to fulfil any existing contracts in place. People who couldn't get the old card can try for one of the newer ones. Capacity doesn't change unless the silicon gets bigger. If the rumours of finally getting a desktop 3050 are true, then it may help the lower end of the market with presumably a smaller die and thus higher volumes. The low end is also where Intel will mainly be fighting when they join the party, so nvidia getting in there with a current gen product makes sense.

I've seen some rumors saying that there might be a 16GB 3070Ti, and a 12GB 3080, capacity of these would be the same since Nvidia is using the chips, but everyone that tried to get a 3070 or 3080 would have to wait again for a 3070 or 3080 Super. A 3050 would be interesting, Nvidia would have to cut down the die quite a lot to hit a $200-250 price although I doubt it would be on shelves for anything close to $200.

3 hours ago, porina said:

@Blademaster91 Thinking more I think I missed your point there, in part due to the way this was originally presented in thread. If we say, nvidia were making a 3070 Super, it would take away from 3070 vanilla, in a similar way the 3070 Ti did. The 3070 wouldn't be retired immediately, but just limited according to binning. However, if there was to be a 4070, then 3070 family production being cut makes perfect sense.

So we'll have a 3070, 3070 Super, and a slightly faster 3070Ti, I just think it's not necessary for Nvidia to keep adding more sku's to the product stack during a component shortage, but it also makes sense to keep more chips in a x70 tier than have to bin chips down to cheaper cards.

[MageTank]

2 minutes ago, James Evens said:

Is it? My earth is flat. moon landing was Hollywood and the saturn 5 in all of it's glory and awesome technology was build afterwards to keep the myth a life.

 

Btw. look at the date. this was last years april fool (spain).

At this point, I can't tell if I out-sarcasm'd you, or if you out-sarcasm'd me, lol.

[HenrySalayne]

2 minutes ago, MageTank said:

At this point, I can't tell if I out-sarcasm'd you, or if you out-sarcasm'd me, lol.

Geeknetic.es made this as a part of the Spanish Fool's Day, which is December 28th. However, considering the current state of the RTX (and AMD RX) market, this is a nice satirical gotcha which I'll keep on TPU. Let's laugh at our misery instead of wallowing in it.

[MageTank]

Just now, HenrySalayne said:

Geeknetic.es made this as a part of the Spanish Fool's Day, which is December 28th. However, considering the current state of the RTX (and AMD RX) market, this is a nice satirical gotcha which I'll keep on TPU. Let's laugh at our misery instead of wallowing in it.

Yeah, I knew it was a fake, which is why I posted the internet classic meme of this:

 

Though, I wrote it out, hoping the younger generation would get the reference. Now I just feel old.

[xg32]

pascal really was a mistake from nvidia, and they even messed up the msrp on the 3070 and 3080 (these are not 500 and 700dollar cards), next gen is where the true shitshow lies.

[Mark Kaine]

3 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

I was under the impression Nvidia is selling GPUs and memory for a fixed price to board partners

thats the thing, are they? Wouldn't be surprised if they adjust prices according to "street price".

 

Ultimately we don't know,  do we?

[Master Disaster]

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. MLID is a clickbaiter, he's always got "trusted" sources but never reveals them, you wanna know what an anonymous source is? A rumour.

 

At this point I genuinely think he is making this stuff up himself.

[Master Disaster]

26 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

thats the thing, are they? Wouldn't be surprised if they adjust prices according to "street price".

 

Ultimately we don't know,  do we?

I'm no expert but I'd imagine these types of deal are fleshed out and signed for well in advance. AIB will likely be buying bulk volumes and dropping all the money upfront for a steady supply of GPUs throughout the year.

[Master Disaster]

2 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

 

 

IMO speculation/leaked/rumor shouldn't go to Tech News especially when the source is questionable. 

Disagree, rumour and speculation topics are essential.

 

I'd suggest a revision to this idea, anything involving MLID is automatically disqualified from TN unless he provides a verifiable source.

[BuckGup]

I sorta believe this based upon how Nvidia operates with its industry partners. If NVIDIA finds out you are using a GPU in a product lineup that competes with Nvidia, like the DGXs, they will increase the prices as high as 2x or deny the sale. Its scummy and AMD engineers are usually much more helpful and resourceful. AMD will have engineers on the floor assisting and troubleshooting while Nvidia very rarely will send anyone out to your location. People really started to hate Nvidia when they bought Mellanox as they started artificially raising prices when used in competing solutions. Which sucks because they have a monopoly of the highspeed networking scene as Slingshot is one of the only competitors and is not very good at all

[Mark Kaine]

29 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. MLID is a clickbaiter, he's always got "trusted" sources but never reveals them, you wanna know what an anonymous source is? A rumour.

 

At this point I genuinely think he is making this stuff up himself.

That's the thing why I don't like / watch him, its totally ok to have wild rumors or theories without a "source" as long good reasons are presented for those rumors,  but the fact he always has a "secret source" just makes it really sketchy/ unbelievable. 

27 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

I'm no expert but I'd imagine these types of deal are fleshed out and signed for well in advance. AIB will likely be buying bulk volumes and dropping all the money upfront for a steady supply of GPUs throughout the year.

Yeah, I figure that too, but its all just speculation, maybe its just 6 months... didn't Nvidia just recently raise prices? Don't really remember, but I think there was something.   

[Master Disaster]

14 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

That's the thing why I don't like / watch him, its totally ok to have wild rumors or theories without a "source" as long good reasons are presented for those rumors,  but the fact he always has a "secret source" just makes it really sketchy/ unbelievable. 

Yep and I said exactly this earlier. Rumours and speculating on them is like 50% of what happens in TN and its fine as long as its presented as a rumour but with him, its always "I heard it from a trusted by anonymous source" with an inference that its not a rumour.

14 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Yeah, I figure that too, but its all just speculation, maybe its just 6 months... didn't Nvidia just recently raise prices? Don't really remember, but I think there was something.   

Same on my part, I have no idea how these things really work. Just a reasonable guess.

[Kisai]

7 hours ago, porina said:

 

If we assume for now that a new product range is being made ready, it is normal to cut back production of the outgoing product to shift resource to the new product. It does not mean a drop in production overall. Now, if they want more launch day stock, then it would imply not supplying the older product a bit earlier to stock up on the new product.

 

I kinda doubt nVidia, or any company holds back production, that would only make sense if they were making things that they aren't profiting off of. We know this isn't the case.

 

In terms of other products, like game console launches, it's simply because they can't produce them fast enough, and missing the holiday season means you get a poor attach rate, because, again, the scalpers just buy the consoles-alone. Stores could quite literately solve that by requiring purchases of account-locked game cards, or the physical games, because no scalper is going to want to be stuck with games/game cards they can't resell. But too much effort for retailers, as long as someone buys, they don't care.

 

Like if I were nVidia, I'd probably make more 3060's than 3070/60ti's just for the fact that more can be made, and go into more things. And from experience, gamers only buy two tiers, they either buy the medium-low end because they are 1080p gamers, or they buy the highest 3080/3080ti tier because they are 4K/VR gamers. 

 

Entry-level Laptops have the 3050/3050Ti (GA107)

Entry-level Desktops have the 3060 (GA106)

Gaming Laptops have the 3080 Mobile, which is the same part used as the 3070 and 3060Ti (GA104)

High end Desktops would have the 3080/3080Ti/3090 (GA102)

 

The only reason the 3070 exists is because it's the highest part that goes in the laptop, and gaming laptops don't sell nearly as well, so you have to justify that production. Like at one point during the year, the only parts you could get were 3070's. But now it's mostly 3060/3060ti's.

 

So if we took this rumor on it's face, the most likely thing is nVidia halting independent production of GA104 and GA107, and only producing GA102 and GA106, binning down GA102's for what would otherwise be GA104, and GA106's to GA107.

 

Nvidia holding back chips is counter-intuitive. You're sacrificing product availability for a higher street price and selling less of them, resulting in less profit. At best, if there was some truth to it, it would likely be AIB's colluding to hold back product from retailers, and selling them directly on eBay/Alibaba/Amazon.

 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

Doubt

 

 

I wonder if part of this is true.

Like nvidia is witholding some stock to try to release more gpus around late november?

[Master Disaster]

1 minute ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

Doubt

 

 

I wonder if part of this is true.

Like nvidia is witholding some stock to try to release more gpus around late november?

It just doesn't make sense, they apparently acquired the space at Samsung which means they paid for it. Why would they then decide to waste the money the gave Samsung just to keep prices of old stock high. Even if you say they're just storing them until later, logistics and storage still costs money.

 

Anything they gained on the swing would just get lost on the roundabout.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

Just now, Master Disaster said:

It just doesn't make sense, they apparently acquired the space at Samsung which means they paid for it. Why would they then decide to waste the money the gave Samsung just to keep prices of old stock high. Even if you say they're just storing them until later, logistics and storage still costs money.

 

Anything they gained on the swing would just get lost on the roundabout.

I know, but sonys doing the same thing, not selling some ps5 sto make them available for holiday 2021

Itd be a pr move, making nvidia look good.

That makes more sense than the craskpot conspiriact theory that moores lw video was

[LAwLz]

I'm glad to see that other people are also calling MLID or food his bullshit. He had been making stuff up for ages. It's very obvious that he just makes shit up and then hope it gives him clicks. 

As for how "reliable" he had been in tI'm glad to see that other people are also calling MLID or food his bullshit. He had been making stuff up for ages. It's very obvious that he just makes shit up and then hope it gives him clicks. 

 

As for how "reliable" he had been in the past, look no further than this post:

 

Quote

 

On 10/3/2021 at 11:10 PM, LAwLz said:

 

Oh boy, the source is Moore's Law is Dead. The same person who said:

 

• Highest end RTX 3000 series card would have 7552 CUDA cores (it has 10496).
• The 3080 will have 3840 CUDA cores (it has 8704). 
• Ampere would be 50% better than Turing (seems to be more than that, but it depends on the workload). 
• That the top of the line cards would be made using TSMC 7N (it wasn't, it was Samsung 8nm). 
• That the RTX 30 series would be made on a 10nm node (it wasn't, it was Samsung 8nm).
• DLSS 3.0 would be announced with Ampere (it wasn't, and still isn't announced).
• NVCache would be a thing (it wasn't, and no RTX IO is not the same thing as what he described).
• Nvidia would use the Tensor cores to do lossless VRAM compression (they didn't).
• That the RTX 30 series would have more VRAM than the RTX 20 series (it didn't).
• The cards would run at 1.9GHz at stock and overclock to 2GHz. (they don't, they run at around 1.7GHz). 
• They would double the number of sensor cores per SM (they didn't).
• There would be an RTX 30 Titan with over 7000 CUDA cores (there was no 30 series Titan card, and even the 3080 has more CUDA cores).
• Nvidia wouldn't increase the memory bandwidth. (They did, by about 35%).
• Nvidia would launch a new control panel with the launch of the 30 series, and GeForce Experience would not be required (both of these were false).

 

 

Yes, he has such a great track record I totally believe what he says. I am sure he isn't just making shit up to get views on his terrible Youtube channel...

 

 

 

A blindfolded person throwing darts on a board full of WCCFTech rumors would end up having a better track record than this clown.

 

 

It's not hard to be right a couple of times when you make different guesses in every video. Wow he managed to predict that the 30 series would be made on Samsung's 8nm node? Too bad he also made like 4 incorrect guesses. I could honestly get a similar track record as him. All I need to do is make estimates on what I think future products will be like, and then make a couple of different guesses, and one of them will probably be right. Then I'll just ignore all the incorrect guesses I made and go "see? I told you it would be this. My super secret source told me". 

[WereCat]

MLID sources are terrible. 

My very trusted sources tell me that the 4000 series will be delayed because NVIDIA is trying to integrate GPU into the mosfet for cleaner power delivery and much higher clocks. 

[IPD]

18 minutes ago, WereCat said:

MLID sources are terrible. 

My very trusted sources tell me that the 4000 series will be delayed because NVIDIA is trying to integrate GPU into the mosfet for cleaner power delivery and much higher clocks. 

 

This I believe.  And I'd be happy to wait a few weeks extra to insure USB 4.0 and DP 2.0.

[GDRRiley]

7 hours ago, leadeater said:

So why would Nvidia care about higher street prices? They get nothing out of it, they sell GPU packages and memory to AIBs at whatever price they set so the street pricing effects them in absolutely no way other than AMD GPU street prices and the performance of those competing products.

 

This is a dumb rumor.

you assume they haven't raised costs to AIBs

[Moonzy]

4 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

you assume they haven't raised costs to AIBs

If they have, would there still be shops selling at "MSRP"? Best buy still sells at MSRP I think?

[GDRRiley]

3 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

If they have, would there still be shops selling at "MSRP"? Best buy still sells at MSRP I think?

when was the last time you saw founders drop at MSRP? other than meeting what they agreed to with best buy I doubt  they are making any more than they need to