Repairable laptops like Framework are stupid (opinion)

[glascake]

Yes I have an iPhone (personal phone), 

Yes I have a Macbook (development), 

Yes I have an Android (buisness phone),

Yes I have a Laptop (linux development), 

Yes I have a PC (win10 - gaming). 

 

I'm a pretty open person if it comes to tech, still I think the Framework laptop and concept is pretty stupid. 

Reparability is great but absolutely needless for consumers. 

Lets be honest do I really need an ugly ass Latop where I can repair the usb port my self for 15 bucks?
Hell nah, I'd rather bring my macbook to a third party repair shop and he will fix it for 30 bucks. 

And third party repair isn't even that expensive, last year I got the graphics card repaired from my macbook for 150 bucks.

But yes its amazing to have exchangeable RAM and SSD, but even my DELL Precision has all of that. 

 

NOTE:

I don't think 'right to repair' is stupid, its amazing. But I think a baby doesn't need to be able to change my usb ports.

Third party repair is good enough. (Also had amazing experience with third party repair shops that repaired my macbook)

[Helpful Tech Witch]

I think you are horendously missing the point. 

The point of Framework is to not just let you replace usb ports, but make the whole thing easy to repair by anyone.

They have the board schemtics available, the whole thing is modular, theyve mad a comitment to make every single part available, they are selling motherboards that you will be able to swap out, so you dont have to buy a whole new laptop, the besels can be swapped out (which is actually helpful, ive crcked a couple besels in the past)

Its not just the usb or the ram or ssd, its literally every single port.

 

And really, it looks better than a lot of laptops out there....

[OhioYJ]

6 minutes ago, glascake said:

Third party repair is good enough. (Also had amazing experience with third party repair shops that repaired my macbook)

 

Well that's great if you have a third party repair shop near you and most importantly one that you trust. However odds are many people do not. Especially for all types of devices.

[AbydosOne]

8 minutes ago, glascake said:

But I think a baby doesn't need to be able to change my usb ports.

The ports aren't for "reparability", they're for modularity (meaning they can provide new port standards to older chassis, should the need arise, preventing obsolescence).

 

9 minutes ago, glascake said:

Hell nah, I'd rather bring my macbook to a third party repair shop and he will fix it for 30 bucks.

The point of R2R is that most shops can't get hold of the schematics/datasheets needed to diagnose the issue, not that you should do it yourself.

[da na]

But seriously - you did kinda miss the point there. It isn't for a baby to change USB ports as you said, it's to give the laptop a longer overall lifespan, be less expensive for the user to repair, and produce less ewaste.

[Freakwise]

28 minutes ago, glascake said:

Lets be honest do I really need an ugly ass Latop where I can repair the usb port my self for 15 bucks?

Seriously, Can you really called it repair when all you have to do is to plug it in and out?

 

28 minutes ago, glascake said:

Lets be honest do I really need an ugly ass Latop where I can repair the usb port my self for 15 bucks?
Hell nah, I'd rather bring my macbook to a third party repair shop and he will fix it for 30 bucks. 

Eh, it's you i respect that, but for me and some one else? It's a fucking no brainer half the price and literally takes less than 30 second

Edited September 15, 2021 by Freakwise

[Cool_Evlo]

17 minutes ago, glascake said:

Reparability is great but absolutely needless for consumers. 

How?? Some people dont want to send their devices into a shop for 3 days to fix a problem they could fix in a half an hour...

19 minutes ago, glascake said:

Lets be honest do I really need an ugly ass Latop where I can repair the usb port my self for 15 bucks?

What if you wanna be able to switch from an HDMI port to a few USB ports? Like, maybe if you're taking it somewhere you want the couple of USB ports, but if you're at home you want a second display, so you hook up a second monitor with the HDMI port?

 

Because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean its objectively bad.

[Blademaster91]

18 minutes ago, glascake said:

Reparability is great but absolutely needless for consumers. 

Lets be honest do I really need an ugly ass Latop where I can repair the usb port my self for 15 bucks?

IMO repairability is needed for consumers, its not that hard to change out ram or a battery,and consumers shouldn't be throwing out a laptop because the battery is worn out, or the laptop needs more ram.

What is ugly about the framework laptop? It looks like every other thin and light laptop to me, and you're missing the point of the replaceable ports, you can swap in what ports you want.

21 minutes ago, glascake said:

Hell nah, I'd rather bring my macbook to a third party repair shop and he will fix it for 30 bucks. 

What kind of macbook is it? Good luck doing that on any recent macbook though, most third party shops don't have the schematics, or can't obtain the parts to repair a macbook, and thats the whole point of right to repair.

[Cyracus]

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

or can't obtain the parts to repair a macbook

Or even if they can get the parts, Apple puts software locks in place to prevent the device from working

[Kilrah]

42 minutes ago, glascake said:

And third party repair isn't even that expensive, last year I got the graphics card repaired from my macbook for 150 bucks.

 

42 minutes ago, glascake said:

Third party repair is good enough. (Also had amazing experience with third party repair shops that repaired my macbook)

Except that with new macbooks none of the likely failures are 3rd-party repairable anymore, and it's been getting worse every year. Louis Rossmann has a great video about that, people needing to become aware that their device having been repairable isn't a given but is something they're lucky to still having been able to enjoy and it's going away unless companies are forced to provide access to the required documentation, components and tools.

 

 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

2 minutes ago, Cyracus said:

Or even if they can get the parts, Apple puts software locks in place to prevent the device from working

macbooks are better about that, usually its just you cnt buy parts. 

But ports are the more prevalant parts as I understand

6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

What kind of macbook is it? Good luck doing that on any recent macbook though, most third party shops don't have the schematics, or can't obtain the parts to repair a macbook, and thats the whole point of right to repair.

actually most macbooks it shouldnt be too hard to replace a usbc port, as  theyre just usbc ports

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 minute ago, Kilrah said:

Except that with new macbooks none of the likely failures are 3rd-party repairable anymore, and it's been getting worse every year. Louis Rossmann has a great video about that,

I thought that the most common problems were things like a 12v to gnd on the display conector and like dorosion under bga chips?

[BondiBlue]

2 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

I thought that the most common problems were things like a 12v to gnd on the display conector and like dorosion under bga chips?

With all 2018 and newer MacBook Pro models the SSD cannot be accessed by another computer, and it's paired to the T2 chip. With removable components this wouldn't be an issue. 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

2 minutes ago, BondiBlue said:

With all 2018 and newer MacBook Pro models the SSD cannot be accessed by another computer, and it's paired to the T2 chip. With removable components this wouldn't be an issue. 

The ssd is removable, that changed with the soc design on the 2020 m1 macbook

The t2 chip is a good security feature like tpm and bitlocker for a windows laptop, but not if you can only use it

 

But those arent a common failure are they?

[Kilrah]

2 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

The ssd is removable, that changed with the soc design on the 2020 m1 macbook

That's not correct, SSDs have been soldered on the board for several years, some models had it back in 2016. Some models had the lifeboat connector that allowed salvaging the data from a dead board but that's been gone for a while too. 

 

2 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

But those arent a common failure are they?

With Apple repair any fault on the board means whole board replacement and data gone. Doesn't need to be the SSD failing.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 minute ago, Kilrah said:

With Apple repair any fault on the board means whole board replacement and data gone. Doesn't need to be the SSD failing.

I ment for 3rd party repair.

 

4 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

That's not correct, SSDs have been soldered on the board for several years, some models had it back in 2016. Some models had the lifeboat connector that allowed salvaging the data from a dead board but that's been gone for a while too. 

 

I thought I saw a louis roaman video about fixing a a18 something mcbook with a ssd but maybe I was wrong

[BondiBlue]

20 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

The ssd is removable, that changed with the soc design on the 2020 m1 macbook

The t2 chip is a good security feature like tpm and bitlocker for a windows laptop, but not if you can only use it

 

But those arent a common failure are they?

All 2016 and newer MacBook Pros have a soldered SSD apart from the lowest end 2016 and 2017 non-TB models. But even with those, there are no enclosures for the drives used in those two models, so you'd still need an entirely separate machine. And yes, SSD failure does happen. 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

6 minutes ago, BondiBlue said:

All 2016 and newer MacBook Pros have a soldered SSD apart from the lowest end 2016 and 2017 non-TB models. But even with those, there are no enclosures for the drives used in those two models, so you'd still need an entirely separate machine. And yes, SSD failure does happen. 

I know it does, but @Kilrah said common failures, which its not a common thing. Not like a backlingd 12v to gnd

[warmmilk]

solution is super simple, since you don't like it, don't buy it.  you have the option of literally every other laptop in the market...

[BondiBlue]

15 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

I know it does, but @Kilrah said common failures, which its not a common thing. Not like a backlingd 12v to gnd

SSD failure is a common thing, just as it is in other computers. 

[Rex Hite]

I think the Framework modular laptop concept is an idea that misses the mark.

It seems to me a demonstration of packaging rather than a mass consumer product.

But laptop makers already know all about putting bits of tech inside small housings.The modular approach means more material, more points of failure and more making small bits that people may or may not want. It means excess inventory.

Environmental claims and "landfill proofing" is a marketing joke. That pretense should stop.

 

[Jtalk4456]

7 minutes ago, Rex Hite said:

I think the Framework modular laptop concept is an idea that misses the mark.

It seems to me a demonstration of packaging rather than a mass consumer product.

But laptop makers already know all about putting bits of tech inside small housings.The modular approach means more material, more points of failure and more making small bits that people may or may not want. It means excess inventory.

Environmental claims and "landfill proofing" is a marketing joke. That pretense should stop.

The environmental claims are far from a joke. yes having small replaceable parts has more complexity and more material, but that's a small percentage of added material. What matters is when something dies, the consumer doesn't have to waste all the other material. They can waste a tiny little port instead of the whole screen, motherboard, casing and everything else. This is about the larger picture when it comes to e-waste. Also while there are more points of failure, there's less single points of failure. That's an important distinction. If the usb port on a laptop dies, I might have to replace the motherboard, which might cost close to the same as buying a new laptop, pushing consumers to throw a 90% good machine in the trash instead of repairing. 

1 hour ago, glascake said:

1. Reparability is great but absolutely needless for consumers. 

Lets be honest do I really need an ugly ass Latop where I can repair the usb port my self for 15 bucks?

2. Hell nah, I'd rather bring my macbook to a third party repair shop and he will fix it for 30 bucks. 

And third party repair isn't even that expensive, last year I got the graphics card repaired from my macbook for 150 bucks.

 

3. I don't think 'right to repair' is stupid, its amazing. But I think a baby doesn't need to be able to change my usb ports.

Third party repair is good enough. (Also had amazing experience with third party repair shops that repaired my macbook)

1. It's not about what you need, it's about what the earth needs. And the earth needs people to stop drilling the ground out to find materials to make a laptop that gets used for a year then has a small issue and gets thrown away because there's no easy way to repair the small issue.

2. Most third party repair doesn't go that cheap in my experience. Also 150 isn't cheap for many people. 

3. No one said a baby should be able. But if it's better, why not? You may be fine with third party repair, but if there's a better option, there's no reason not to improve.

1 hour ago, Kilrah said:

Except that with new macbooks none of the likely failures are 3rd-party repairable anymore, and it's been getting worse every year. Louis Rossmann has a great video about that, people needing to become aware that their device having been repairable isn't a given but is something they're lucky to still having been able to enjoy and it's going away unless companies are forced to provide access to the required documentation, components and tools.

The problem with assuming corporations will have your best interest in mind is you end up wrong every time.

35 minutes ago, warmmilk said:

solution is super simple, since you don't like it, don't buy it.  you have the option of literally every other laptop in the market...

A-freaking-men

[Arika]

I'm not going to repeat what everyone else has already said, but the part i ant to pick up on is:

 

2 hours ago, glascake said:

Lets be honest do I really need an ugly ass Laptop

 

 

 

 

 

 

OMG this laptop looking laptop is "ugly"

[GDRRiley]

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

I'm not going to repeat what everyone else has already said, but the part i ant to pick up on is:

OMG this laptop looking laptop is "ugly"

you mean what looks like a probook mixed with a macbook isn't ugly.
sure its not going to win the sexiest laptop but its not ugly

[thrasher_565]

i think the point is everything has planed opalescence build it. when we should make things last instead.  if you think about it a game console is sapos to be a laptop like and have everything soldered to it make it cheap to make. so you should get more performance for your droller. but laptops are just expensive for the sake of it.

 

laptops that you can change the cpu most items you pay extra to have that ability and by the time you want to upgrade it time to upgrade anyway.  besides laptops are strange  they have a "fast cpu" witch then thermal throttles... so what the point. why not put a cheaper cpu in that dose not thermal throttle?