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Rumor: TSMC to increase 12-inch wafer prices by 25% by end of the year.

Random_Person1234
By Random_Person1234
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Summary

According to a report by United News, TSMC plans to increase its 12-inch wafer prices by $400. A 25% year-over-year increase. This would be an all-time record high price. According to other rumors, discounts that were negotiated between TSMC and their major customers have been withdrawn due to the increase in chip demand. Also, according to Taiwanese social media, TSMC is making employees work extra hours, but not logging those hours as overtime. 

 

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Today's rumors, reported by United News, seem to apply to all tech products. TSMC manufactures semiconductors in two wafer sizes, namely the 12-inch and 9-inch wafers. Out of these, chips that are generally used in consumer electronics are manufactured on 12-inch silicon wafers, which are the subject of the reported price hikes. The details suggest that by the end of his year, TSMC will have increased its 12-inch wafer prices by $400 for a 25% year-over-year increase - resulting in all-time record high prices.

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Whispers from the Taiwanese chip sector also suggest that the discounts TSMC's major customers negotiated for 2021 have been withdrawn owing to the uptick in chip demand.

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word from Taiwanese social media suggests that while the company is making its employees work beyond office hours, the extra time is not being logged inside TSMC's systems as overtime. The company's procedures require worker supervisors to agree to overtime after determining the reasons behind a worker's need to work beyond the allotted hours, which according to the social media post now deleted were not being followed. Since this is a rumor, for the time being, it's clear that no concrete conclusions can be derived from it.

 

My thoughts

With the tariffs and this, it just seems to be the perfect storm for price increases for electronics. At least there won't be additional price increase for RTX 30 GPUs, besides the tariffs, because Nvidia uses Samsung. 

 

Sources

https://wccftech.com/tsmc-rumored-to-hike-chip-prices-by-25-by-2021-end-as-alleged-workers-receive-no-overtime-pay/

https://udn.com/news/story/7240/5350287

https://hothardware.com/news/tsmc-price-hike-higher-chip-prices

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Well shit....

Fuck you scalpers, fuck you scammers, fuck all of you jerks that charge way too much to tech-illiterate people. 

Unless I say I am speaking from experience or can confirm my expertise, assume it is an educated guess.

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So are foundries just so advanced only a few know how to do it otherwise I don't see why we can't open more fabs? The issue affects everyone on Earth so surely they could pool money together to make more fabs

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Just now, BuckGup said:

So are foundries just so advanced only a few know how to do it otherwise I don't see why we can't open more fabs? The issue affects everyone on Earth so surely they could pool money together to make more fabs

Because they are already trying to do some of this, but fabs are entire buildings, and they require purchasing real estate and constructing an entire factory building that is safe to manufacture semiconductors in. It takes years to do just that. Also no foundry would pool money with another foundry, unless maybe it was AMD pulling at Global Foundries arm to pool money with TSMC. 

Fuck you scalpers, fuck you scammers, fuck all of you jerks that charge way too much to tech-illiterate people. 

Unless I say I am speaking from experience or can confirm my expertise, assume it is an educated guess.

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3 minutes ago, Nathanpete said:

Because they are already trying to do some of this, but fabs are entire buildings, and they require purchasing real estate and constructing an entire factory building that is safe to manufacture semiconductors in. It takes years to do just that. Also no foundry would pool money with another foundry, unless maybe it was AMD pulling at Global Foundries arm to pool money with TSMC. 

I understand the process is very lengthy and expensive. Intel said building new fabs in the US is going to cost in the multi billion dollar range and take a couple years. But supply issues have existed long before Corona. Remember the price of RAM and flash storage when there was a dimm shortage? 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
Just now, BuckGup said:

I understand the process is very lengthy and expensive. Intel said building new fabs in the US is going to cost in the multi billion dollar range and take a couple years. But supply issues have existed long before Corona. Remember the price of RAM and flash storage when there was a dimm shortage? 

I thought it was just DRAM  modules, not DIMM. Because DIMM is a sort of RAM. I think I would know it because I did a project on the situation for a high school class when it happened. 

Fuck you scalpers, fuck you scammers, fuck all of you jerks that charge way too much to tech-illiterate people. 

Unless I say I am speaking from experience or can confirm my expertise, assume it is an educated guess.

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Also have a Alienware Alpha R1: i3-4170T, GTX 860M (≈ a 750 Ti). 2x4GB DDR3L-1600, Crucial MX500

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27 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

So are foundries just so advanced only a few know how to do it otherwise I don't see why we can't open more fabs? The issue affects everyone on Earth so surely they could pool money together to make more fabs

Well they can, and they will. But they take years. The first new fab will start producing goods in 2024. Yes, that's 3 years from now IF everything goes to plan, which is impossible to know, especially today.

If you want my attention, quote meh! D: or just stick an @samcool55 in your post :3

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17 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

So are foundries just so advanced only a few know how to do it otherwise I don't see why we can't open more fabs? The issue affects everyone on Earth so surely they could pool money together to make more fabs

It could be a decade or more until your fab starts to generate any profits. So you need really deep pockets to be able to not only build the fab, but also attract and keep the necessary talent.

Remember to either quote or @mention others, so they are notified of your reply

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1 hour ago, Random_Person1234 said:

According to other rumors, discounts that were negotiated between TSMC and their major customers have been withdrawn due to the increase in chip demand.

This is what I'm more concerned about since these discounts are often a key part of bringing down prices for chips.  I wouldn't be surprised to see another price spike for AMD CPUs/GPUs and maybe even the new iPhone.

Arch is better than Ubuntu. Fight me peko.

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1 hour ago, Random_Person1234 said:

With the tariffs and this, it just seems to be the perfect storm for price increases for electronics. At least there won't be additional price increase for RTX 30 GPUs, besides the tariffs, because Nvidia uses Samsung. 

 

Unfortunately Nvidia was negotiating deals with TSMC for producing 3000 series cards so if nothing else, the GPU shortage will continue for longer than if this markup was not introduced unfortunately meaning that the price hike is here to stay for the near future. 

57 minutes ago, Nathanpete said:

I thought it was just DRAM  modules, not DIMM. Because DIMM is a sort of RAM.

Nope it was the DRAM chips itself and in turn the entire RAM sticks (I think you mean DIMM as in RAM sticks and not the chips themselves?)

1 hour ago, BuckGup said:

So are foundries just so advanced only a few know how to do it otherwise I don't see why we can't open more fabs? The issue affects everyone on Earth so surely they could pool money together to make more fabs

More fabs is definitely the solution considering the ever growing demand but the issue is, as stated, it will be some time before new fabs are operational producing chips so it will probably not help reducing pricing in the short term. Well unless TSMC starts selling future fab production capacity now but that is unlikely considering that new fabs(besides 1) for TSMC are not even in the planning as far as the public knows. 

I will recommend an NHu12s (or an NHd15 (maybe)) for your PC build. Quote or @ me @Prodigy_Smit for me to see your replies.

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4 minutes ago, Prodigy_Smit said:

Nope it was the DRAM chips itself and in turn the entire RAM sticks (I think you mean DIMM as in RAM sticks and not the chips themselves?)

I gotta get better at making sure I says chips when I mean chips, and not modules when I mean chips. I substitute chips for modules way too often. 

Fuck you scalpers, fuck you scammers, fuck all of you jerks that charge way too much to tech-illiterate people. 

Unless I say I am speaking from experience or can confirm my expertise, assume it is an educated guess.

Current setup: Ryzen 5 3600, MSI MPG B550, 2x8GB DDR4-3200, RX 5600 XT (+120 core, +320 Mem), 1TB WD SN550, 1TB Team MP33, 2TB Seagate Barracuda Compute, 500GB Samsung 860 Evo, Corsair 4000D Airflow, 650W 80+ Gold. Razer peripherals. 

Also have a Alienware Alpha R1: i3-4170T, GTX 860M (≈ a 750 Ti). 2x4GB DDR3L-1600, Crucial MX500

My past and current projects: VR Flight Sim: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=dG38Jx (Done!)

A do it all server for educational use: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=vmmNcf (Cancelled)

Replacement of my friend's PC nicknamed Donkey, going from 2nd gen i5 to Zen+ R5: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=WmsW4D (Done!)

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48 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Well they can, and they will. But they take years. The first new fab will start producing goods in 2024. Yes, that's 3 years from now IF everything goes to plan, which is impossible to know, especially today.

47 minutes ago, Eigenvektor said:

It could be a decade or more until your fab starts to generate any profits. So you need really deep pockets to be able to not only build the fab, but also attract and keep the necessary talent.

3 minutes ago, Prodigy_Smit said:

More fabs is definitely the solution considering the ever growing demand but the issue is, as stated, it will be some time before new fabs are operational producing chips so it will probably not help reducing pricing in the short term. Well unless TSMC starts selling future fab production capacity now but that is unlikely considering that new fabs(besides 1) for TSMC are not even in the planning as far as the public knows. 

They have been having capacity issues for years now and I don't really see computers just vanishing in 3 years so why couldn't they have started buildings years ago before we got to this situation? I know it's not as easy as build more fabs brrrr and there are a shitload of dependencies on a company spending the money to build a new one but I feel the problem was a long time coming everyone saw.

1 hour ago, Nathanpete said:

I thought it was just DRAM  modules, not DIMM. Because DIMM is a sort of RAM. I think I would know it because I did a project on the situation for a high school class when it happened. 

Typo I meant DRAM but put DIMM lol

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted
3 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Typo I meant DRAM but put DIMM lol

Its fine, I made a similar mistake in this same thread. You say DIMM when you mean DRAM, I say module when I mean chip.

Fuck you scalpers, fuck you scammers, fuck all of you jerks that charge way too much to tech-illiterate people. 

Unless I say I am speaking from experience or can confirm my expertise, assume it is an educated guess.

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19 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

They have been having capacity issues for years now and I don't really see computers just vanishing in 3 years so why couldn't they have started buildings years ago before we got to this situation?

They absolutely should have, I guess the massive corporations don't have great foresight. 

Now if you want to have good foresight, invest in a water bottle from lttstore.com and your future self will thank you while sipping that cool vacuum insulated water.

I will recommend an NHu12s (or an NHd15 (maybe)) for your PC build. Quote or @ me @Prodigy_Smit for me to see your replies.

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5 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I guess I'll be sticking with my RTX 3080 for the next 5 years...

Still looking to get one (or successor) but not holding my breath.

 

 

 

On the original topic, what TSMC can or can't do will come down to contracts. Chances are older ones are expiring, newer ones need to be made, and it is on those newer ones they are jacking up the pricing and not offering discounts.

 

It is also a bit more complicated than overall fab capacity, but also at what node? Leading edge will always be desirable, but don't rule out older ones. 

 

The ram capacity thing has gone in cycles for as long as I can remember. When there is a shortage, prices go up, everyone produces more. Then you get over-supply, prices crash and they cut back. They never quite manage to balance it.

 

From a manufacturing perspective, it is safer financially to have too little capacity since you get paid more for what you do. Excess supply is a cost. What we have now seems to be a bigger imbalance than we had for some time.

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Posted

I may as well start a tech YouTube channel. Use the ad revenue and make connections in the industry. Then maybe I'll be able to afford some new PC parts. This is fucking insane. 

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20 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I guess I'll be sticking with my RTX 3080 for the next 5 years...

yep now im glad that i splurged and got a 3080 instead of the 3070 or 3060

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37 minutes ago, Prodigy_Smit said:

They absolutely should have, I guess the massive corporations don't have great foresight. 

Now if you want to have good foresight, invest in a water bottle from lttstore.com and your future self will thank you while sipping that cool vacuum insulated water.

 

Companies like TSMC are constantly growing, but everything takes time. Deals for factory space can take years to finalize. It's not like they only started work on building new fabs the moment things got bad. Beyond that, demand jumped both quicker and in more volume than predicted.

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3 hours ago, BuckGup said:

So are foundries just so advanced only a few know how to do it

Yes

 

Not only is making the fab ridiculously complicated, the machines to put in the factories are very limited as well. Currently, the most advanced manufacturing process is Extreme Ultraviolet lithography (EUV).

There is only a single company in the world that makes EUV machines, and that's the Dutch company ASML. ASML started shipping EUV machines in 2015. I don't know the exact numbers for today, but in 2020 they had shipped less than 80 EUV machines.

 

So even if some company like TSMC were to build a bunch of fabs, they don't have any machines to put into those buildings.

ASML can't make machines to put in those fabs fast enough. My guess is that nobody else can make machines either because it is heavily patented.

 

And ASML doesn't want to scale their production because if they do that, it will take time and by the time those assembly lines are up and running, their machines might be outdated. It's a massive rusk to scale production up.

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4 hours ago, Random_Person1234 said:

TSMC is making employees work extra hours, but not logging those hours as overtime. 

I'm actually surprised they were paying the employees at all for those extra hours, even if it's not as overtime.

It's not that unusual to be treated like a slave in that part of the world when it comes to your job.

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2017/08/20/2003676852

This is not isolated to only Taiwan, too.

 

That said, what I am not surprised at, is this price hike.

When demand becomes higher than the supply... Shit goes up.

Some companies could totally absorb it for their customers due to how high their profit margin is already on their products (ex: 38% gross, 21% net profits for Apple). But why would they do that if they can just charge people more money and people won't have any choices but to buy from them anyway if they want the latest tech toy of the year.

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5 hours ago, BuckGup said:

So are foundries just so advanced only a few know how to do it otherwise I don't see why we can't open more fabs? The issue affects everyone on Earth so surely they could pool money together to make more fabs

 

First as others have said it takes a long time to build the fab itself. But it's not just the time from ground being dug. before that they have to go through the whole mess of getting planning permission and before that they have to work out where would be a good place to put it based on local transport capabilities, potentially trainable extra workers, costs to operate e.t.c.

 

Second, Foundries as also pointed out above need equipment to go in them. More than that because of the build time if it's your highest performance node your not putting in the same equipment your using right now, your putting in equipment that you expect to be using in several years for a process node thats going to be still in development. Thats got some extra risks associated with it as if you need to modify your process specs late on your going to have to modify all of that new hardware thats never made any money.

 

Third, Different computer bits need different processes. Those used for RAM or FLASH are usless for making high performance CPU's and GPU's. The High performance compute shortage outside of intel is a covid centric thing. And thats because demand went up by a lot more than expected in a very short time.

 

Earliest TSMC could have started discussing this internally was this time last year, more likely last few months of 2020. If they decide to expand in response we probably won't see ground being dug for another year or two and then another 2+ years for it to be completed. Your talking 3+ years before any response to events that started middle of last year happens. Thats what happens when just in time manufacturing using something that takes a while to expand infrastructure on runs into the unexpected.

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6 hours ago, BuckGup said:

So are foundries just so advanced only a few know how to do it otherwise I don't see why we can't open more fabs? The issue affects everyone on Earth so surely they could pool money together to make more fabs

It's a huge cost of entry and a technology gap. It would take multiple companies investing almost all of their liquid capital to make one. And we're talking about big companies, not random small ones. 

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1 hour ago, descendency said:

It's a huge cost of entry and a technology gap. It would take multiple companies investing almost all of their liquid capital to make one. And we're talking about big companies, not random small ones. 

Wouldn't it benefit everyone though? I guess that argument can be made about a lot of companies and how they spend money so I see your point

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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We simply need more competition. I understand that the barrier to entry is extremely high when it comes to fabs. But that's no excuse considering the level of demand and dependence the entire world has on these products. Chip production needs to be a national interest of the US government, and having more than just one fab here is essential. 

GPU: XFX RX 7900 XTX

CPU: Ryzen 7 7800X3D

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