Not you too! - Miners looking towards gaming laptops powered by NVIDIA's Ampere GPUs for Ethereum

[StDragon]

Call it an inflection point, or regression. But it's the perfect storm given the major global shortage of fabrication, COVID-19, and Crypto leading to a shortage of next-generation technology across the board from PC to Console hardware. It's so bad that the last two generations of GPU hardware actually increased in value used!

 

I foresee next generation titles lower the bar in system requirements (relative to previous years) so as to reach a greater target audience. It's hard to do that when titles are years into development, but while they won't gimp the high-end, I could see them working on assets and engine complexity options to lower the threshold too. 

[Moonzy]

57 minutes ago, Kisai said:

and the retailers being unable to charge these jerks full price because they were committed to selling them at the price people could afford.

im guessing you missed the part where i mentioned that i paid about 200% MSRP for my 30-series GPU from retailers? my local retailers have no problem forcing people to pay 2x the MSRP AND making you buy the rest of the system along with it, so i would have to spend like 3-4x the MSRP of a GPU just to get a GPU.

no one sells GPU at MSRP here.

 

59 minutes ago, Kisai said:

This is why ticket scalping still happens, a bunch of greedy awful people see a popular thing, see no risk in buying all the inventory and it artificially blows the demand out of the water when fair value of it was in fact the suggested retail price or lower.

im against scalping of event tickets, but not GPU, i do not support GPU scalpers, therefore i only purchase my GPUs from retailers, even if they act like scalpers anyways

but i do not blame GPU scalpers for doing what they did to better their financial situation, buyers from scalpers are to be blamed as well, you cant really clap with only one hand, after all.

 

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

If every product was being scalped right now, every single item in the grocery store last would be gone for the last 12 months as people initially horded things like toilet paper and canned food (indeed last march as quarantines were being announced, every single box of pasta and canned food item was gone, and now today absolutely everything is 25% more expensive at the retailers than it was last year.) Things that were 5.99 are now 7.99. We've literately lost 25% of our spending power over one year.

does your local government not regulate essential goods? i know my country does

they prevent scalping of essential goods such as food and toilet paper

 

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

It's the kind of thing that government regulation is intended to stop as it results in a even more ewaste had the miners not been the driving force for "shucking" hardware to get the gpu's.

either it's because it's midnight, or the sentence structure is weird, because im having a hard time processing this sentence

do you mean miners are the driving force behind shucking systems for GPU?

[D13H4RD]

32 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

im guessing you missed the part where i mentioned that i paid about 200% MSRP for my 30-series GPU from retailers? my local retailers have no problem forcing people to pay 2x the MSRP AND making you buy the rest of the system along with it, so i would have to spend like 3-4x the MSRP of a GPU just to get a GPU.

no one sells GPU at MSRP here.

Yeah, that hurts. We live in the same country and not only are GPUs hard to find but many are badly inflated. It was bad enough that prices of GPUs tend to be higher here versus other countries. This just makes it sting even more.

[Zodiark1593]

1 hour ago, StDragon said:

Call it an inflection point, or regression. But it's the perfect storm given the major global shortage of fabrication, COVID-19, and Crypto leading to a shortage of next-generation technology across the board from PC to Console hardware. It's so bad that the last two generations of GPU hardware actually increased in value used!

 

I foresee next generation titles lower the bar in system requirements (relative to previous years) so as to reach a greater target audience. It's hard to do that when titles are years into development, but while they won't gimp the high-end, I could see them working on assets and engine complexity options to lower the threshold too. 

Depending on how far out this goes, and probably a worst case scenario if shortages somehow stretches for years, I could see developers opting to not support PC. It wouldn’t be worth lowering the threshold for the already fairly small portion of gamers already on PC, and gamers aren’t able to get ahold of the hardware to actually run the game proper. 
 

While the Worst-Case seems a bit out there at this time, as was mentioned, things are kind of in a perfect storm right now. No telling how long shortages will last, and whether gamers wanting a card will continue to endure the wait, or jump ship. 

[MageTank]

This is always a polarizing subject and it is always fascinating to view both sides of it. You have one side that mocks the other for being a fad, claiming the currency isn't legit, that the "bubble will burst", yet are adamant in their belief that mining is a major contributing factor in the massive GPU shortages. If there is no profit in this, and they are wasting time and getting nothing out of it, why is it that miners are continuing to buy cards en masse?

 

The other side is the miners, rationalizing their bulk purchases with the mindset that they are willing to pay for it like any other customer and shouldn't be subjected to any restrictions simply because they choose to use their hardware differently from another consumer.

 

The simple truth is, convincing either side that the other is "right" is a fruitless endeavor because there is no common ground to be had here. Frankly, I am not sympathetic towards either side. Gamers can claim they are entitled to cards all they want because they were "designed for gaming", but manufacturer marketing does not dictate how the end-product is to be used. Listerine was originally marketed as a floor cleaner before some genius had the bright idea to swish the forbidden Gatorade. Slinky's were used as a means to stabilize naval equipment on rough waters until someone got bored and was mesmerized by the hypnotic bouncing of it. The point is, these companies may have originally designed their product for one purpose, but that doesn't mean they dictated how the consumer would perceive and inevitably use the product. 

 

Miners can't also pretend they are altruistic in this either. Ignoring the blatant power consumption issue entirely (it's been beaten to death by people far more intelligent than myself), there is only a finite amount of space in this world and some miners are expanding operations to multiple warehouses. Then there is cooling this space. Unless you are trying to offer subsidized heating for the homeless in your mining facilities during the winter, you can't spin this as a "it's not really hurting anyone" kind of deal.

 

At the end of the day, I do not feel pity for those that cannot find a graphics card right now. I am sure we would all love an upgrade, I've been wanting an RTX 3080 with a reference PCB for quite some time, but I likely won't be getting one at all given the current events. It's important that people learn to properly discern between their wants and needs. Anyone that claims they need a GPU are lying to themselves, even if they are claiming their mental health as a valid reason for their "need". The human race has survived long before PC gaming existed, we will endeavor to persevere in light of its absence if need be.

 

Oh, and to those of you using the pandemic as a crutch to justify your desire for a GPU, remember that it works both ways. The manufacturers, suppliers, retailers, shipping companies and every single link in between are all operating under CDC guidelines with reduced staffing (sick leave/quarantine, working from home, parents staying home to educate their kids) throughout the entire start-finish process and it is no doubt impacting their ability to produce, ship, stock and support these products. Factor this in for every single component that is placed on the board and every single company that participates in the production of these components and you'll understand just how tiny mining is in the grand scheme of this shortage.

[D13H4RD]

29 minutes ago, MageTank said:

 Anyone that claims they need a GPU are lying to themselves, even if they are claiming their mental health as a valid reason for their "need". 

I think the only legitimate need for a GPU is when one's job actually requires one. However, if you're in that camp, I'm very sure you would already have your ways of getting the stuff you need. 

[MageTank]

8 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

I think the only legitimate need for a GPU is when one's job actually requires one. However, if you're in that camp, I'm very sure you would already have your ways of getting the stuff you need. 

I'd argue that if you need a GPU for your job, your employer should be providing it. Part of my job involves testing these cards as they release for use in system integration and that means we need samples of the product we are testing. This is a legitimate need in order for me to do my job, however there are circumstances where our vendors cannot provide cards as a sample, so we have to purchase a card and sum it to our testing department. Either way, I wouldn't be footing the bill for that if my employer required that I need a GPU to perform a task they've requested of me.

 

It's also a slippery slope using this logic because miners will no doubt equate that behind their rationale of buying more GPU's for more income. "I don't work a normal job, this IS my job". Anyone that uses this line of reasoning must then afford the opposing side the same opportunity to use that reasoning as well, otherwise it's just hypocritical.

[Zodiark1593]

14 minutes ago, MageTank said:

I'd argue that if you need a GPU for your job, your employer should be providing it. Part of my job involves testing these cards as they release for use in system integration and that means we need samples of the product we are testing. This is a legitimate need in order for me to do my job, however there are circumstances where our vendors cannot provide cards as a sample, so we have to purchase a card and sum it to our testing department. Either way, I wouldn't be footing the bill for that if my employer required that I need a GPU to perform a task they've requested of me.

 

It's also a slippery slope using this logic because miners will no doubt equate that behind their rationale of buying more GPU's for more income. "I don't work a normal job, this IS my job". Anyone that uses this line of reasoning must then afford the opposing side the same opportunity to use that reasoning as well, otherwise it's just hypocritical.

Those that are self employed and rely on GPUs are probably finding it cheaper to pay scalper pricing than to sit without anyway. 

[atxcyclist]

36 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Those that are self employed and rely on GPUs are probably finding it cheaper to pay scalper pricing than to sit without anyway. 

Most people that are self employed or in a small business don’t have money to throw at inflated stuff. I’m running old versions of software at work because the current version requires GPUs I cannot reasonably get or expect the business to pay for. That is the reality of a smaller business, with covid there is no spare money, we were lucky to survive at all. Even something like a 1660 is too expensive to justify at current prices.

[Bitter]

Wccftech: Tehran Faces Power Outages Due To Massive Crypto Mining Operations Consuming Up To 450 Megawatts, That Much Power Can Power A City Of 100K People. https://wccftech.com/tehran-faces-power-outages-due-to-massive-crypto-mining-operations-consuming-up-to-450-megawatts-that-much-power-can-power-a-city-of-100k-people/

 

Yikes!

Edit: Don't know why the link didn't turn into a link when I posted it from mobile?

[lostcattears]

Hopefully they won't buy 3060 laptops and that they should just stick to their 3070/3080/6800/6900xt ones

[Fnige]

14 hours ago, Moonzy said:

IDK bout your location as I've mentioned but there are many GPU for sale for my place, just at absurdly high mark up

I mean, space travel is expensive so you cant blame that

[D13H4RD]

7 hours ago, MageTank said:

I'd argue that if you need a GPU for your job, your employer should be providing it. Part of my job involves testing these cards as they release for use in system integration and that means we need samples of the product we are testing. This is a legitimate need in order for me to do my job, however there are circumstances where our vendors cannot provide cards as a sample, so we have to purchase a card and sum it to our testing department. Either way, I wouldn't be footing the bill for that if my employer required that I need a GPU to perform a task they've requested of me.

 

It's also a slippery slope using this logic because miners will no doubt equate that behind their rationale of buying more GPU's for more income. "I don't work a normal job, this IS my job". Anyone that uses this line of reasoning must then afford the opposing side the same opportunity to use that reasoning as well, otherwise it's just hypocritical.

 

7 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Those that are self employed and rely on GPUs are probably finding it cheaper to pay scalper pricing than to sit without anyway. 

I think where this gets even more complicated is when you're either in the position of the employer, or are independent and perhaps work in the line of building systems for others and don't have the benefit of direct contact with the vendors to source the necessary components and possibly get priority.

 

Though as I mentioned earlier, if this is something that you actually needed, you would already know how to source these parts rather than constantly berating online about it.

[Moonzy]

5 hours ago, D13H4RD said:

Though as I mentioned earlier, if this is something that you actually needed, you would already know how to source these parts rather than constantly berating online about it.

Someone complained about a company not fulfilling his strix 3080 pre-order while selling EVGA 3080 (at a higher price)

The company refunded him and offered for him to use the money plus some top up to buy other products, he refused and said he deserved a strix 3080 at MSRP that he paid months ago

 

Then he proceeded to say he's losing money in his business because he didn't have a 3080, while not willing to pay extra for the 3080 that he needs for "work"

If you're losing more money than what you would pay for the GPU, it's kind of silly not to just buy the GPU and be done with it, or am I wrong in thinking about it in this way?

[D13H4RD]

46 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

Someone complained about a company not fulfilling his strix 3080 pre-order while selling EVGA 3080 (at a higher price)

The company refunded him and offered for him to use the money plus some top up to buy other products, he refused and said he deserved a strix 3080 at MSRP that he paid months ago

 

Then he proceeded to say he's losing money in his business because he didn't have a 3080, while not willing to pay extra for the 3080 that he needs for "work"

If you're losing more money than what you would pay for the GPU, it's kind of silly not to just buy the GPU and be done with it, or am I wrong in thinking about it in this way?

If I were in his position, if I really needed the card, unless it is obscenely priced, I would just pick another 3080 that's in stock. When you actually need it for work, you can't be obscenely choosy, just get the part that gets the job done to your desired liking.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

If I were in his position, if I really needed the card, unless it is obscenely priced, I would just pick another 3080 that's in stock. When you actually need it for work, you can't be obscenely choosy, just get the part that gets the job done to your desired liking.

I don't know, if it were a 3090 the work story might be a lot more believable. Since we're talking about a 3080 then almost anything RTX 2070 Super and up would do just fine.

[D13H4RD]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I don't know, if it were a 3090 the work story might be a lot more believable. Since we're talking about a 3080 then almost anything RTX 2070 Super and up would do just fine.

Agreed. A lot of people like to use the "I NEED IT FOR WORK!!1!" excuse for a card that others can fulfil if that one product isn't in stock.

 

If you actually needed a card for work, you would also have several alternatives, as I mentioned that you can't be choosy if this thing is necessary for work. If you insist on a particular card even down to the AIB cooler in a situation where stock is difficult to come by, it's harder to believe that you need the card for work at all.

[Age of 9394]

That maybe explain why China had a power shortage problem.

[Fnige]

3 minutes ago, Age of 9394 said:

That maybe explain why China had a power shortage problem.

It was a coal shortage. Apparently its higher usage according to the authorities but its probably China-Aus Tensions.

[CTR640]

It's getting worse:

https://videocardz.com/newz/hundreds-of-nvidia-geforce-rtx-30-gaming-laptops-spotted-in-a-mining-farm

 

 

[Donut417]

Just now, CTR640 said:

It's getting worse:

https://videocardz.com/newz/hundreds-of-nvidia-geforce-rtx-30-gaming-laptops-spotted-in-a-mining-farm

 

 

I’m surprised their government allows crypto currency’s over there. They seem to like to control every thing. 

[CTR640]

Just now, Donut417 said:

I’m surprised their government allows crypto currency’s over there. They seem to like to control every thing. 

IKR. If this bs keeps going on, then it will be really problematic some day.

[ZuppaSalata]

On 2/6/2021 at 4:33 PM, D13H4RD said:

Summary

In what should really surprise very little at this point, owing to a shortage of GeForce RTX 30-series desktop cards, miners, notably those in China, have started to turn their attention towards newly released laptops with NVIDIA's shiny new GPU architecture, notably for mining Ethereum, which has seen a significant value jump that now sits around the $1600-1700 mark. Given the sheer compute power of NVIDIA's Ampere architecture, even notebook GPUs have proven to be lucrative for cryptomining, even to the point of using it to mine whilst in a coffee shop, making enough to pay for the coffee itself.

 

Quotes

Coupled with the incoming Chinese New Year holiday period, if this gains more attention and traction amongst miners, it may be the case that new gaming laptops may also suffer from the supply and price-gouging issues that many desktop parts, notably those from AMD and NVIDIA, have suffered from over the past few months.

 

My thoughts

It definitely looks like a pretty bad time to be in the market for any product that utilizes AMD's Zen 3 and RDNA2 architecture alongside NVIDIA's Ampere. With supply chains still reeling from the effect of COVID-19, and now coupled with increasing mining interests (again) plus the typical issues with scalping and price-gouging from retailers, it looks like many of us who either want to build a new system or upgrade an existing one will have to hold out much longer.

 

Sources

Notebookcheck

Videocardz

 

 

This is just dumb. Such a waste of tech material, bad for the environment and for people who does actually need a laptop. 

I don't want to criticise mining itself since I do also mine on my gaming pc, but it's sad to see how greedy people are. 

[Fnige]

13 hours ago, Nacht said:

Nvidia does not care about us, they only care about money, it does not matter if it go's to a miner, money is money.

well how do you think theyd only bring it to gamers.

 

Also theyre just as entitled to it than you are

[mwagen]

 

On 2/10/2021 at 12:16 PM, CTR640 said:

It's getting worse:

https://videocardz.com/newz/hundreds-of-nvidia-geforce-rtx-30-gaming-laptops-spotted-in-a-mining-farm

 

 

Yeah, I don't think you can say that miners are only a contributor to the shortage just like anybody else who bought a gpu. Just look at this greedy shit and tell me mining isn't the outright cause of it. Just search youtube for "mining rig" and "gaming rig" and count the gpu difference... 

 

Do the math. If only 10% of gpu customers are miners but each of them are hoarding anywhere from 6x to 100x+ the gpus for their mining farms, and in my opinion are far more cutthroat in getting their hands on one, you seriously cannot expect me to believe that isn't the primary reason for this months-long shortage, even with covid going on.