Not you too! - Miners looking towards gaming laptops powered by NVIDIA's Ampere GPUs for Ethereum

[Moonzy]

1 hour ago, mwagen said:

you seriously cannot expect me to believe that isn't the primary reason for this months-long shortage, even with covid going on.

On the demand side, I would believe that miners are one of the main contributors to GPU shortage, especially 3080 and 3060ti

 

But there's also the supply side to consider, we're in a pandemic so the supply is limited.

 

So what's your point?

[Letgomyleghoe]

On 2/6/2021 at 10:12 AM, Heliian said:

Yay!  

 

Here's to hoping governments start regulating this crap.  India is at least attempting to put pressure on it.

 

Crypto currency is the biggest waste of resources, just think how much scientific computing could have been accomplished with all that hardware churning. 

here's to hoping that governments find a way to make a currency that we can use online that is nearly untraceable and secure!

sure, crypto is vastly energy wasteful, but it is very, very secure.
 

[mwagen]

59 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

So what's your point?

Refuting this mentality that mining isn't disproportionately eating up the gpu supply and ruining the experience for gamers who wanted to upgrade their rig so they can play CP2077 at a decent framerate. What's your point? Just looking for another excuse to give us the facts of life and justify why you're ok spending double the msrp for a gpu? 

[Moonzy]

9 minutes ago, mwagen said:

Refuting this mentality that mining isn't disproportionately eating up the gpu supply and ruining the experience for gamers who wanted to upgrade their rig so they can play CP2077 at a decent framerate.

Sure

It sounds kind of stupid to me, but that's my opinion

 

9 minutes ago, mwagen said:

What's your point? Just looking for another excuse to give us the facts of life and justify why you're ok spending double the msrp for a gpu?

Nah, just legit curious if you think gaming is more important than people trying to earn money, that's all

 

As magetank put it, it's fruitless to try to convince anyone anything as both sides have their own priorities.

In the end, the one who forks up the cash gets the good.

[Blademaster91]

2 hours ago, mwagen said:

 

Yeah, I don't think you can say that miners are only a contributor to the shortage just like anybody else who bought a gpu. Just look at this greedy shit and tell me mining isn't the outright cause of it. Just search youtube for "mining rig" and "gaming rig" and count the gpu difference... 

 

Do the math. If only 10% of gpu customers are miners but each of them are hoarding anywhere from 6x to 100x+ the gpus for their mining farms, and in my opinion are far more cutthroat in getting their hands on one, you seriously cannot expect me to believe that isn't the primary reason for this months-long shortage, even with covid going on.

I think scalpers and miners are purchasing a significant amount of the gpu supply, but because of the pandemic less cards being manufactured, and theres a semiconductor shortage, so severe even car manufacturers can't get enough to finish building vehicles. A shortage of semiconductors and components used to make them, along with miners and scalpers clearing out what few cards are out there is making it even worse for anyone who just wants a single GPU.

I also have no doubt that the OEM's, AIB's and retailers are selling directly to miners, instead of the normal consumer because it makes more sense for companies to sell GPUs or a ton of gaming laptops to a miner that is willing to pay twice as much.

[Blademaster91]

On 2/8/2021 at 4:37 AM, Moonzy said:

I'm saying that there are ways to justify the costs if you do want to buy a $1000 3060ti.

it's that price for a reason, so look at the reason and find out a way to use it to your advantage

That's not a false way of thinking things, in my opinion, that's how I got by in 2017 GPU shortage.

It doesn't seem worth it to spend $1000 on a single card, even mining on it would take about 5 months at 13 cents USD per Kilowatt to recover the cost according to the Nicehash calculator.

On 2/8/2021 at 4:37 AM, Moonzy said:

IDK bout your location as I've mentioned but there are many GPU for sale for my place, just at absurdly high mark up

 

But yea, Nvidia and retailers will jack up the price of GPUs no doubt, but at this point you not buying a GPU probably have little impact on that already

But I guess every little counts

I don't blame Nvidia or retailers for jacking up the price to reflect the true value of the product, but I sure am annoyed by it as well, but it is what it is, and I'm still paying $1000 for a GPU if it makes sense for me.

In the US there haven't been any GPUs in stock at all, at least not on the online retailers, sure if someone in the US is lucky enough to have a Microcenter they can camp out in line and maybe find one.

I had planned on getting a 3070, but at this point I may as well wait for the refresh or the 4000 series, and i've seen articles claiming the GPU shortage could go on until 2022.  I realize not buying a GPU has no impact when someone that has the means to buy 10 or whatever of them for mining, but if this continues on I think it could affect PC gaming, when most are still using a GTX 10 series or RTX 20 series gpu, not much reason to optimize for RTX 30 series.

On 2/8/2021 at 4:37 AM, Moonzy said:

As much as people saying mining should be killed off, I can't be sympathetic towards those people, nor am I obligated to if I'm being brutally honest.

 

I wish mining could co-exist with gaming, as mining could be a great tool for gamers too, but some people are too blinded by the hate towards it to see that, and that's okay, they do them.

I still remember buying steam games worth several tens of dollars with few dollars worth of electricity, it's great.

I doubt mining could co-exist with gaming, not when miners insist making money is more important than having gaming as a fun hobby, or miners buying up every graphics card from a store, but gamers also insist gaming is the most important thing to have a GPU for, but I think F@H is the most important because it's actually folding proteins towards to help cure diseases.  I don't have any sympathy towards miners paying more to get cards directly or paying scalpers prices for them because companies will only set prices higher. If you're saying i'm hating on mining i'm not, I just find it ridiculous that there is nothing to buy and retailers are taking advantage of it, now there likely won't be gaming laptops either.

 

[Moonzy]

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

It doesn't seem worth it to spend $1000 on a single card, even mining on it would take about 5 months at 13 cents USD per Kilowatt to recover the cost according to the Nicehash calculator.

It depends, the card can continue mining after 5 months, and even if crypto crashes, it's still your asset to sell

If you're buying one to game, you just have to mine enough to offset the additional cost over MSRP and just stop mining after that, which is probably three months or so

Or you can continue doing it like I did

 

3 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

i've seen articles claiming the GPU shortage could go on until 2022

I would think it's a problem as long as crypto have a high price, so it's hard to say, it might crash tomorrow, it might not crash for a long time seeing how more and more people are getting into it and people like Elon openly supports it

 

5 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

if this continues on I think it could affect PC gaming, when most are still using a GTX 10 series or RTX 20 series gpu, not much reason to optimize for RTX 30 series.

Yeah I have no doubt, since developers will develop game that can be played by the masses, is the masses have older hardware, they'll develop for those people

 

But they'll still keep the high end users (which is also the noisiest audience) happy, so I doubt they'll drop 30-series support entirely

It's not like no gamers are getting it, I've seen many people with 30-series GPU asking questions in the forum.

 

8 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

doubt mining could co-exist with gaming, not when miners insist making money is more important than having gaming as a fun hobby, or miners buying up every graphics card from a store, but gamers also insist gaming is the most important thing to have a GPU for

Yeah, priorities differ from user to user

I just think it's sad that people can be so divided just by pure hate alone, and can't see past the hate to see that mining is a useful tool

 

FYI, gamers mining could actually affect miners profitability, since you're technically increasing the difficulty, so their profits would drop

You on the other hand gets a cut of the pie, you can pretend like it's lost and not sell the coins, just like GME stock, if you can afford the electricity for it

Or you can sell the coin, and drop the price by a little, I have no idea on how stocks works so I might be very wrong on this.

 

Though it's unlikely that they'll not be profitable, since the profit margin is stupid high now, like 10-20x the electricity cost for 10 cent kwh, but it'll be a dent

[Arika]

2 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

here's to hoping that governments find a way to make a currency that we can use online that is nearly untraceable and secure!

 

 

 

18 hours ago, Nacht said:

Nvidia does not care about us, they only care about money, it does not matter if it go's to a miner, money is money.

<company> does not care about us, they only care about money, it does not matter if it go's to a <consumer>, money is money.

[Letgomyleghoe]

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

 

 

 

<company> does not care about us, they only care about money, it does not matter if it go's to a <consumer>, money is money.

just a hope, I don't get why there's so much fear mongering about crypto speaking that cash is still used by drug dealers, weapon smugglers, hitmen and the like. But just because crypto is nearly untraceable people freak out about it.

[atxcyclist]

1 hour ago, Moonzy said:

It depends, the card can continue mining after 5 months, and even if crypto crashes, it's still your asset to sell

If you're buying one to game, you just have to mine enough to offset the additional cost over MSRP and just stop mining after that, which is probably three months or so

Or you can continue doing it like I did

Believe it or not, many people don't want their computer roaring away on their desk 24/7 using electricity that they're paying for. Just because mining can be profitable doesn't mean everyone wants to dedicate the space and resources to do it. You can basically do gaming or mining, I use my computer for more than just gaming so I wouldn't be mining at those times either, whatever time is left over probably isn't enough to make profit before the hardware dies. This solution of 'just mine to offset the inflated costs' isn't really a solution, even though you've been promoting it constantly.

 

The reason gamers and miners don't see this the same way is that as gamers we're looking to enjoy gaming, you're looking to make money. They're two fundamentally different approaches. 

[Justaphysicsnerd]

On 2/6/2021 at 11:42 PM, Heliian said:

just think how much scientific computing could have been accomplished with all that hardware churning. 

Do you want the government to make it mandatory for everyone to dedicate their laptops and or pcs everyday for X amount of hours for governments spying purposes....research purposes... ?

[Moonzy]

3 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

Believe it or not, many people don't want their computer roaring away on their desk 24/7 using electricity that they're paying for. Just because mining can be profitable doesn't mean everyone wants to dedicate the space and resources to do it.

And I respect that, you do you

But if you're turning $1 into $10, it's hard to say no

 

3 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

You can basically do gaming or mining, I use my computer for more than just gaming so I wouldn't be mining at those times either, whatever time is left over probably isn't enough to make profit before the hardware dies.

It's not about profit, it's to offset some of the cost of the hardware, not necessarily cover the full cost as I've mentioned.

Some money is better than no money, imo

 

Even if you mine in the 8h you're sleeping only, it'll still only take three times more to make back the value of the GPU, assuming it's the same profit rate (it isn't, but let's assume) so... 15 months?

 

But again, even if you don't make back 100% of the GPU value, getting back 20% is like getting a 20% discount on it, it's something

 

I'm actually mining while I use the desktop, and only stop it if I'm playing games that are affected by it

Some of my games are fine running in tandem with mining

 

3 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

This solution of 'just mine to offset the inflated costs' isn't really a solution, even though you've been promoting it constantly.

It's not a solution for everyone, thus why I said before that it's fine if you can't do it, just that you'll have to wait for hardware prices to drop, or find other ways to justify the higher price

Because the fact of it is, prices are high right now, and no amount of complaining will get it down, so make lemonade if you have lemons.

 

It's not a foolproof solution either, because crypto can crash anytime.

But I imagine the chances of that is quite slim, to not be profitable at all. Unless your electricity is expensive.

 

It's merely another option that's available, and more option is always better imo.

 

3 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

The reason gamers and miners don't see this the same way is that as gamers we're looking to enjoy gaming, you're looking to make money. They're two fundamentally different approaches

I'm sure there's many people that are both

That's why when steam accepted bitcoin, it was such a great news, gamers can use mining to literally buy games.

Right now you still can, just that you'll have to go through hoops of exchanging it first.

[Jet_ski]

10 hours ago, SlimyPython said:

well how do you think theyd only bring it to gamers.

 

Also theyre just as entitled to it than you are

Are they really bringing it to gamer?! They’ve only brought it to miners and corporate clients. They should just hype it for highest bidders.

[Fnige]

19 hours ago, Jet_ski said:

Are they really bringing it to gamer?! They’ve only brought it to miners and corporate clients. They should just hype it for highest bidders.

Quite a few gamers got it. Just it's first come first serve. 

[Kisai]

On 2/12/2021 at 12:43 AM, Moonzy said:

And I respect that, you do you

But if you're turning $1 into $10, it's hard to say no

 

It's not about profit, it's to offset some of the cost of the hardware, not necessarily cover the full cost as I've mentioned.

Some money is better than no money, imo

 

Even if you mine in the 8h you're sleeping only, it'll still only take three times more to make back the value of the GPU, assuming it's the same profit rate (it isn't, but let's assume) so... 15 months?

 

 If you're only making $2/day after energy costs are deducted, and the GPU is $300, that's 150 days, If the GPU is $2500 and only making $12, that's 208 days. An ASIC miner is the same price, but makes $20/day that's 125 days.

 

Ethereum is apparently ASIC-resistant by design. This entire reason why GPU's are being bought, because Ethereum 2.0 is going to make those ASIC miners nothing but e-waste. At least if they were GPU's you could turn around and ebay them. So what's the better alternative, if you're an avid miner, would you rather be able to reprogram that investment you have, or have to re-purchase your investment before it's recouped with no option to sell it.

 

Anyway, I hate miners for the energy waste and ewaste alone. 

 

Elon, and Mastercard deciding to invest in bitcoin is just excaberating the problem now because all the FOMO's are going to buy up every last mining-capable device so they can leave these foolish banks holding the bag for buying bitcoin.

[Moonzy]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

If the GPU is $2500 and only making $12, that's 208 days

So I checked the number, a 3090 is indeed making ~$13 a day

 

Imagine running a script on your PC for less than a year and you get a 3090 for free, I bet many people would run it.

I doubt the 3090 will be obsolete within a year too.

[Kisai]

10 hours ago, Moonzy said:

So I checked the number, a 3090 is indeed making ~$13 a day

 

Imagine running a script on your PC for less than a year and you get a 3090 for free, I bet many people would run it.

I doubt the 3090 will be obsolete within a year too.

Meanwhile, ebay scalpers want $10,000 for a 3090.

[StDragon]

16 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Meanwhile, ebay scalpers want $10,000 for a 3090.

So, a mining ROI of just over 2 years; and that's assuming it will run 24/7 and the crypto valuation won't change.

 

$2,600 for a 3090 puts the ROI at 200 days.

[Kisai]

3 hours ago, StDragon said:

So, a mining ROI of just over 2 years; and that's assuming it will run 24/7 and the crypto valuation won't change.

 

$2,600 for a 3090 puts the ROI at 200 days.

It probably doesn't make business sense to invest in hardware that is obsolete before it recoups it's investment. So realistically, computers have a 1 year warranty on them, but may operate for 7 years if you can replace the GPU twice over it's life. So if GPU prices remain where they are, you're spending 20,000$ to hit ROI after 4 years, meanwhile you haven't gained anything, and can't use the hardware for anything else, and the longer you wait to try and sell it, the less it's worth. I can absolutely assure you nobody is going to pay 10,000 for a 2 year old Titan.

Meanwhile:

 

Three of those listings are fake, of course.

 

 

Three of those listings are fake though.

 

[CTR640]

It's getting any better:

https://wccftech.com/gaming-internet-cafes-being-converted-to-cryptocurrency-mining-farms-due-to-covid-19/

[Nena Trinity]

Well now it affects the average consumer, can we now all agree we need a final solution to the mining problem? 

[Donut417]

Just now, Nena Trinity said:

Well now it affects the average consumer, can we now all agree we need a final solution to the mining problem? 

As long as people put value in crypto currency, there will never be a solution to the mining problem. 

[Nena Trinity]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

As long as people put value in crypto currency, there will never be a solution to the mining problem. 

Make it a crime? The cost of power have sky-rocketed during the pandemic how the hell can they even afford it? O_O

[Donut417]

3 minutes ago, Nena Trinity said:

Make it a crime? The cost of power have sky-rocketed during the pandemic how the hell can they even afford it? O_O

The Government wont do that. Why would they fuck themselves out of tax revenue? At least in the US the sale of crypto is taxed. Plus the push back from Wall Street would be too great. 

[Nena Trinity]

3 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

The Government wont do that. Why would they fuck themselves out of tax revenue? At least in the US the sale of crypto is taxed. Plus the push back from Wall Street would be too great. 

1. ban the electric car

2. ban mining

3. power grid no longer failing = profit

4. I would expect the banskters to back aything that kill crypto