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Is apple just going to kill x86 now?

LazyLand
By LazyLand
in General Discussion
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Posted
10 minutes ago, hookedonentflix said:

Cause it was the direction the market went. If people really cared about headphone jacks they would still be around. Its a cycle Apple does something -> people shit on it -> other companies realizes its a good idea -> people shit themselves and get angry at apple. Other companies have freedom to do what they want but they have to compete. Apple jumps of a bridge and people get angry when other companies do too. 

Apple does their research right, except when they don’t.  (See butterfly keyboard) Other companies know this so they follow without doing the research because cheaper.  Most of the time it works. 

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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10 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

You tried to do CAD on a surface?  Yeah I can see that not working very well. If stuff is small enough an m1 will work great.  It’s when stuff gets large that big problems set in.   The second you hit swap for memory it’s like you put your foot in one of those mouse glue traps. 

I've got a more than beefy desktop that does the heavy lifting, but in all honesty I've never struggled with anything cad or rendering related on the surface or a Mac over the years. just nice to lay in bed and knock a few parts out while watching tv lol. the ones that don't require me to think to much or do math!

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To address the original topic I think that if the next M chip that comes out is 10big/10little, or even 8/16 big 8 little, with 6+ lanes of available pcie4 yes they can kill the intel machines and not look back. The M1 is phenomenal within its envelope, but it’s a limited envelope.   If they have a way to grow that envelope, yeah they could do it.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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26 minutes ago, hookedonentflix said:

Cause it was the direction the market went. If people really cared about headphone jacks they would still be around. Its a cycle Apple does something -> people shit on it -> other companies realizes its a good idea -> people shit themselves and get angry at apple. Other companies have freedom to do what they want but they have to compete. Apple jumps of a bridge and people get angry when other companies do too. 

I think people care about the headphone jack, but most stick to Samsung or Oneplus, companies tell consumers wireless headphones are better, even though wired sounds better, theres also the risk of wireless interference with bluetooth headphones. I'd really like to see a company actually show that you can have a headphone jack,and still have wireless headphones if you want them, because companies copying apple isn't good for the consumer.

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6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I think people care about the headphone jack, but most stick to Samsung or Oneplus, companies tell consumers wireless headphones are better, even though wired sounds better, theres also the risk of wireless interference with bluetooth headphones. I'd really like to see a company actually show that you can have a headphone jack,and still have wireless headphones if you want them, because companies copying apple isn't good for the consumer.

Nothing prevents anyone from producing a phone with headphone jacks and support wireless headphones. Com to think of it, Bluetooth Headphones.

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Posted (edited)

Misquote

Edited by Bombastinator

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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Posted

For anyone who cares I managed to run userbenchmark for the hell of it. (and some games earlier)

Numbers are somewhat meaningless given the sheer amount of messing about to even run it but thought it'd be a fun comparison. https://imgur.com/a/V3FZMvu

Platform agnostic software engineer & small business owner. 

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On 11/18/2020 at 3:23 AM, LazyLand said:

Please tell me no, I'm tired of apple taking over in everything. 
I dislike apple, mainly because how the people that use their products behave. Many girls I know did this stupid challenge video where they put down a finger if they wanna date the guy described.. kind of. There's just a voice saying "He is cute but he has bad teeth" "He is cute but he is short" AND "He is cute but he has an android" I watched like 50 videos before one got their finger down about the android guy. That's the kind of person I talk about, and I kind of developed hate for apple. I know I shouldn't but idk I can't really control it I just kind of hate them.

 

But any way,
Please tell me amd and intel has what to show apple,  I don't want macbooks to take over everywhere. In my country they are still rare, but with how many people use iphones in my country it's just because It didn't really become a trend yet.. No way they can just beat 2 companies with all the experience and years behind, right?
right..?

Oh boy. 

 

Firstly have you seen the cost of a Apple Product? I paid like $800 for my iPhone and a little over $2K for my MacBook Pro. There is a high cost to entry. Most people cant afford them. The take in to the fact that most business's use Windows. These businesses are not going to go out and just buy Macs, especially since the ARM MAC's are not proven yet. Hell when Windows XP support ended, the US Navy was paying Microsoft lots of money to extend support for them, because many naval ships used Windows XP. 

 

So at the end of the day, you dont have to worry about Apple taking over. Microsoft is not going anywhere. AMD, Intel and Nvidia are not going anywhere. Hell Nvidia is buying ARM so Apple will be paying Nvidia money for license fees. Also Google is a FUCKING beast. Google is defiantly not going anywhere and they can defiantly compete with Apple on the Mobile side of things. 

I just want to sit back and watch the world burn. 

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4 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

I think people care about the headphone jack, but most stick to Samsung or Oneplus, companies tell consumers wireless headphones are better, even though wired sounds better, theres also the risk of wireless interference with bluetooth headphones. I'd really like to see a company actually show that you can have a headphone jack,and still have wireless headphones if you want them, because companies copying apple isn't good for the consumer.

Okay uhh be mad at those companies - not apple

 

A lot of people dont care about things you would expect. Most people are not tech people but still buy phones and the market reflects that.

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why would you think this 😕 

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4 minutes ago, eeeee1 said:

why would you think this 😕 

That would depend on what you are referring to.  If it’s the frowns face. I don’t know.  It just happens sometimes.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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Posted

Apple's not going to kill x86, but it might inspire some innovation or further competition, which is not a bad thing. Apple has killed some things, like headphone jacks on phones, but that's a small feature that companies could take or leave, not a major chip architecture. I wouldn't worry about it. 

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16 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Thats just companies removing a jack that costs a few cents, to charging over $100 to use headphones again, its a sh*t move but it makes sense for a business. I don't see how they look like airpods, no stems as those dumb plastic stems are the thing everyone uses to say theyre airpods.

If you don't mind going with their lower end phones the A series still has a 3.5mm jack.

Well they might not physically look the same they look an awful lot like airpods. White, clamshell, same LED indicator light location, and various similarities. Samsung-Galaxy-Buds-v-Apple-AirPods-1-84

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Honestly, I don't see that happened. You could say the Apple put Intel in an embarrassed situation, like what AMD did early time this year, but too far for the x86 based laptops.

 

But intel isn't the dominator on the mobile platform anymore, that's not because of the Apple m1 chip but happened when AMD launched the Ryzen 4000 mobile processors in CES 2020, Jan, 2020, and the final release in Mar, 2020.

 

Even at this moment, at the price level of $1500, the $1449 AMD Slim-book Asus Zephyrus G14 choke slammed the $1499 m1 13 in Mac Book Pro in terms of productivity. Especially in terms of 2k, 4k video editing, video rendering, and running scripts, backend databases, sql servers, the same price level MBP is not able to win, due to its 8GB ram and 512 GB SSD and lack of dedicated GPU.

 

M1 chip is great, but the mac book pro is overpriced, you have to know that comparison of laptops is far more than the single CPU comparison.

 

  $1449 AMD Slim-book Asus Zephyrus G14:

 

16 GB RAM

1 TB NVME SSD,

RTX 2060 Maxq,

Ryzen 9 4900 HS, 

Cinebench R23 (Single-Core) 1246, 

Cinebench R23 (Single-Core) Multicore 11006,

 

$1499 m1 13 in Mac Book Pro:

8 GB Ram

512 GB SSD

M1 Chip,

Cinebench R23 (Single-Core) 1498,

Cinebench R23 (Single-Core) 7508,

 

M1 Chip graphic performance is similar to GTX 1050 ti.

 

CPU Comparison

M1 Chip,                                                                     VS                               Ryzen 9 4900 HS,    

Cinebench R23 (Single-Core) 1498,                                                              Cinebench R23 (Single-Core) 1246, 

Cinebench R23 (Single-Core) 7508,                                                              Cinebench R23 (Single-Core) Multicore 11006,

 

 

  $1449 AMD Slim-book Asus Zephyrus G14                 VS                           $1499 m1 13 in Mac Book Pro:

Weight: 3.5 pounds / 1.587 KG                                                                       Weight: 3.08 pounds / 1.4 KG

Height:  0.7 Inch / 1.77 CM                                                                              Height: 0.614 inches / 1.56 CM

 

Just be aware that we are comparing the performance of laptop, not only the CPU.

 

Credit:

https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/cpu-amd_ryzen_9_4900hs-1285

https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/cpu-apple_m1-1804

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/asus-rog-zephyrus-g14

https://support.apple.com/kb/SP824?locale=en_US

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6 minutes ago, JoshY47 said:

Honestly, I don't see that happened. You could say the Apple put Intel in an embarrassed situation, like what AMD did early time this year, but too far for the x86 based laptops.

 

But intel isn't the dominator on the mobile platform anymore, that's not because of the Apple m1 chip but happened when AMD launched the Ryzen 4000 mobile processors.

 

Even at this moment, at the price level of $1500, the $1449 AMD Slim-book Asus Zephyrus G14 choke slammed the $1499 m1 13 in Mac Book Pro in terms of productivity. Especially in terms of 2k, 4k video editing, video rendering, and running scripts, backend databases, sql servers, the same price level MBP is not able to win, due to its 8GB ram and 512 GB SSD and lack of dedicated GPU.

 

M1 chip is great, but the mac book pro is overpriced, you have to know that comparison of laptops is far more than the single CPU comparison.

 

  $1449 AMD Slim-book Asus Zephyrus G14:

 

16 GB RAM

1 TB NVME SSD,

RTX 2060 Maxq,

Ryzen 9 4900 HS, 

Cinebench R23 (Single-Core) 1246, 

Cinebench R23 (Single-Core) Multicore 11006,

 

$1499 m1 13 in Mac Book Pro:

8 GB Ram

512 GB SSD

M1 Chip,

Cinebench R23 (Single-Core) 1498,

Cinebench R23 (Single-Core) 7508,

 

M1 Chip graphic performance is similar to GTX 1050 ti.

 

CPU Comparison

M1 Chip,                                                                     VS                               Ryzen 9 4900 HS,    

Cinebench R23 (Single-Core) 1498,                                                              Cinebench R23 (Single-Core) 1246, 

Cinebench R23 (Single-Core) 7508,                                                              Cinebench R23 (Single-Core) Multicore 11006,

 

 

  $1449 AMD Slim-book Asus Zephyrus G14                 VS                           $1499 m1 13 in Mac Book Pro:

Weight: 3.5 pounds / 1.587 KG                                                                       Weight: 3.08 pounds / 1.4 KG

Height:  0.7 Inch / 1.77 CM                                                                              Height: 0.614 inches / 1.56 CM

 

Just be aware that we are comparing the performance of laptop, not only the CPU.

 

Credit:

https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/cpu-amd_ryzen_9_4900hs-1285

https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/cpu-apple_m1-1804

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/asus-rog-zephyrus-g14

https://support.apple.com/kb/SP824?locale=en_US

The range of Apple laptop costs seems to be pretty wide.  I remember recently seeing an educational channel m1 air for quite a lot under a grand.  Like 6 or 8 hundred or something.  When I went to that Apple site and priced one I might actually buy though it was over a grand.  Do they not have a $150 laptop available?  Nope. Part of the issue is there’s a lot more choice available with PCs All the Apple laptops are built heavily.  3d milled aluminum cases, high grade screens zero deck flex keyboards, high end wifi cards,  etc..   with a PC you can find a machine without some (or all) of those features and pay less.  If you buy a PC with all the same features as a MacBook has though it’s generally very very near the same price.  The difference is when you buy PC you can buy without some of them.  The thing I personally find crippling is its hard to get macs with competitive GPUs.  One feature of that similarity thing is they often avoid the high end GPUs or any other kind of expandability.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

 The thing I personally find crippling is its hard to get macs with competitive GPUs.  

Thats because Nvidia had some kinda of issues with their chips in early MacBooks if I recall correctly. As a result Apple swore off Nvidia. And AMD hasn't really done shit well...... up till now. 

I just want to sit back and watch the world burn. 

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3 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Thats because Nvidia had some kinda of issues with their chips in early MacBooks if I recall correctly. As a result Apple swore off Nvidia. And AMD hasn't really done shit well...... up till now. 

They’ve done it before and after that though.  They don’t seem to go for putting top end GPUs in their machines at all, unless they’re iMacs and reeeaaally expensive.   It was so bad there were some hacks where one would buy a particular low end model, open it, pull the card, and swap it out for a usable one.  Caused all kinds of problems but sometimes it was still worth it. 

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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On 11/18/2020 at 12:35 AM, Elisis said:

Well, x86 is bloody old at this point, and more competition (even cross-architecture!) Is always a good thing.

x86 isn't the same as old old x86, i forgot exactly when it changed, but internally the cpu instructions are converted to RISC 

AMD blackout rig

 

cpu: ryzen 5 3600 @4.4ghz @1.35v

gpu: rx5700xt 2200mhz

ram: vengeance lpx c15 3200mhz

mobo: gigabyte b550 auros pro 

psu: cooler master mwe 650w

case: masterbox mbx520

fans:Noctua industrial 3000rpm x6

 

 

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Technically speaking they already have (x86 is 32 bit, x86-64/amd64 is 64 bit), but based off how they handled the PowerPC transition, I don't think they will end support for at least 5-6 years.

i like trains 🙂

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Just an FYI; A.R.M. stands for Acorn RISC Machine, and R.I.S.C. stands for Reduced instruction set computer.

That means ARM is a system reduced in workload so it might go faster. Doesn't mean it does more...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduced_instruction_set_computer

When i ask for more specs, don't expect me to know the answer!
I'm just helping YOU to help YOURSELF!
(The more info you give the easier it is for others to help you out!)

Not willing to capitulate to the ignorance of the masses!

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20 minutes ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

x86 isn't the same as old old x86, i forgot exactly when it changed, but internally the cpu instructions are converted to RISC 

Don't you mean CISC?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_instruction_listings

When i ask for more specs, don't expect me to know the answer!
I'm just helping YOU to help YOURSELF!
(The more info you give the easier it is for others to help you out!)

Not willing to capitulate to the ignorance of the masses!

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1 hour ago, HanZie82 said:

Don't you mean CISC?

nope, I don't, as @whm1974 they internally process RISC.

AMD blackout rig

 

cpu: ryzen 5 3600 @4.4ghz @1.35v

gpu: rx5700xt 2200mhz

ram: vengeance lpx c15 3200mhz

mobo: gigabyte b550 auros pro 

psu: cooler master mwe 650w

case: masterbox mbx520

fans:Noctua industrial 3000rpm x6

 

 

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On 11/18/2020 at 12:29 AM, LazyLand said:

Yeah I am aware of the hardware-software advantage., But it dosen't really answer my question. I am just afraid apple will "Do it better" Like happened before, and kill x86 ya know

Go watch that last bit of the Apple presentation, it exactly describe you. ''Why innovation, why not just stay where you are, why we need better, why be better, why do better?'' Guess what, you can go to any third world （some are nice, I talking the shitty ones）shitty country if you'd like.

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Microsoft just doesn't have the power to do it, MS actually need Apple to do it before they can fully commit to better engineer their own ARM chips. I do hope this bring a much needed shift to an new architecture, Apple always have this effect where when they do it, it means the mass will do it. Simply Apple.

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