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Is apple just going to kill x86 now?

LazyLand
1 minute ago, We Didnt_t start_the_fire said:

Microsoft just doesn't have the power to do it, MS actually need Apple to do it before they can fully commit to better engineer their own ARM chips. I do hope this bring a much needed shift to an new architecture, Apple always have this effect where when they do it, it means the mass will do it. Simply Apple.

Question? Why would anyone using standard X86-64 hardware and rather nice hardware at that, just go out and spend cold hard cash on a new ARM based Mac to begin with?

 

And why does the PC Market need a Shift to an new Architecture anyway? What is wrong the current x86-64 ISA exactly?

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22 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

Question? Why would anyone using standard X86-64 hardware and rather nice hardware at that, just go out and spend cold hard cash on a new ARM based Mac to begin with?

 

And why does the PC Market need a Shift to an new Architecture anyway? What is wrong the current x86-64 ISA exactly?

Regarding the first paragraph it would be because the lifespan of computer hardware tends to be short.  Wait a few years.  They’ll be needing to buy new stuff anyway. 
 

regarding the second paragraph.  Imho better question.  One I don’t know the answer to.  Others might though.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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15 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Regarding the first paragraph it would be because the lifespan of computer hardware tends to be short.  Wait a few years.  They’ll be needing to buy new stuff anyway. 
 

regarding the second paragraph.  Imho better question.  One I don’t know the answer to.  Others might though.

I've using the same System I built back in 2013 and it is still quite usable in 2020.

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4 hours ago, whm1974 said:

I've using the same System I built back in 2013 and it is still quite usable in 2020.

Thats a benefit to x86, modular so you can make a system last for a long time, an ARM system you can take out of the box and use might be nice for convenience though soldered in everything isn't a benefit IMO.

4 hours ago, We Didnt_t start_the_fire said:

Microsoft just doesn't have the power to do it, MS actually need Apple to do it before they can fully commit to better engineer their own ARM chips. I do hope this bring a much needed shift to an new architecture, Apple always have this effect where when they do it, it means the mass will do it. Simply Apple.

Microsoft does have the power, though there isn't any point in spending to come up with a custom ARM chip, not when most businesses run on x86.

Companies copying what apple does isn't a good thing in regards to right to repair, look at phones and how everyone copied apple with glass backing that breaks, gluing the battery in, or ditching the headphone jack.

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16 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

I've using the same System I built back in 2013 and it is still quite usable in 2020.

2014 for me, though I have updated GPUs twice and swapped out the PSU once.  That’s basically intel not updating though.  It was much faster before that period, and appears to be coming much faster now.  My oldest machine is a PC in the basement which worked when I put it down there.  My second oldest is a 17” macbook though. The machine I mentioned first may or may not be older than the MacBook.  I don’t know.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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12 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

2014 for me, though I have updated GPUs twice and swapped out the PSU once.  That’s basically intel not updating though.  It was much faster before that period, and appears to be coming much faster now.  My oldest machine is a PC in the basement which worked when I put it down there.  My second oldest is a 17” macbook though. The machine I mentioned first may or may not be older than the MacBook.  I don’t know.

I Built my Rig using an i5-4670 and that still really good. If I pick out a AMD AMD AM3+ APU I would have built a new rig already by now.

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On 11/18/2020 at 12:26 AM, Teddy07 said:

No,

Apple is a special case because they control both hard- and software as well as the opterating system. This allows Apple to have much more control. Microsoft on the other hand is nowhere near this level of control.

This comes off as both a good thing and a bad thing to me in many ways.

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2 minutes ago, WindirBear said:

This comes off as both a good thing and a bad thing to me in many ways.

Many things are like this.  One weighs the good vs the bad and takes a net total after doing the same with other similar systems.  The weighting can wind up being quite personal. 

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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18 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Thats a benefit to x86, modular so you can make a system last for a long time, an ARM system you can take out of the box and use might be nice for convenience though soldered in everything isn't a benefit IMO.

ARM doesn't need to be soldered. 

 

18 hours ago, whm1974 said:

And why does the PC Market need a Shift to an new Architecture anyway? What is wrong the current x86-64 ISA exactly?

x86 is inefficient in comparison in both power consumption and instruction set. Whether or not cutting out the instruction set bloat is a benefit remains to be seen. Though power consumption gains are huge. Intel and AMD have been lagging so very, very far behind the rest of the CPU industry when it comes to that. 

 

Shifting to ARM wouldn't be the end of the world either. The computing world has swapped between so many processor platforms at this point that this wouldn't be close to the first time a major shift happened and certainly won't be the last. Back in the 70s and 80s these shifts were happening practically every few years.

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13 minutes ago, Vitamanic said:

ARM doesn't need to be soldered. 

 

x86 is inefficient in comparison in both power consumption and instruction set. Whether or not cutting out the instruction set bloat is a benefit remains to be seen. Though power consumption gains are huge. Intel and AMD have been lagging so very, very far behind the rest of the CPU industry when it comes to that. 

 

Shifting to ARM wouldn't be the end of the world either. The computing world has swapped between so many processor platforms at this point that this wouldn't be close to the first time a major shift happened and certainly won't be the last. Back in the 70s and 80s these shifts were happening practically every few years.

*remembers z80, and 68k, and ppc* NExt used something different as well.  Dunno what it was though

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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7 minutes ago, Vitamanic said:

ARM doesn't need to be soldered. 

 

x86 is inefficient in comparison in both power consumption and instruction set. Whether or not cutting out the instruction set bloat is a benefit remains to be seen. Though power consumption gains are huge. Intel and AMD have been lagging so very, very far behind the rest of the CPU industry when it comes to that. 

 

Shifting to ARM wouldn't be the end of the world either. The computing world has swapped between so many processor platforms at this point that this wouldn't be close to the first time a major shift happened and certainly won't be the last. Back in the 70s and 80s these shifts were happening practically every few years.

The Major Problem I see with ARM Based PCs is that almost all of them are Closed Systems. Meaning that you are limited to using whatever OS their Vendor chooses to put on them, along with not being to install your hardware on them either. The Pinebook Pro you can. but that is the one of the few exceptions.

 

Bog Standard x86-64 PCs on the other hand, you can.

 

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3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

*remembers z80, and 68k, and ppc* NExt used something different as well.  Dunno what it was though

It was the m68k CPUs NeXT Workstations used. They did build a few Prototypes around the m88k RISC processors however. They did later offered their OS on other platforms like x86, PowerPC, SPARC, and I think the Alpha as well.

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6 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

The Major Problem I see with ARM Based PCs is that almost all of them are Closed Systems. Meaning that you are limited to using whatever OS their Vendor chooses to put on them, along with not being to install your hardware on them either. The Pinebook Pro you can. but that is the one of the few exceptions.

 

Bog Standard x86-64 PCs on the other hand, you can.

 

Uhm...
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/

When i ask for more specs, don't expect me to know the answer!
I'm just helping YOU to help YOURSELF!
(The more info you give the easier it is for others to help you out!)

Not willing to capitulate to the ignorance of the masses!

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Apple moved from PowerPC to Intel and it survived. Apple's market share is actually extremely small compared to other manufacturers. Despite their insane amount of money.

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3 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Apple moved from PowerPC to Intel and it survived. Apple's market share is actually extremely small compared to other manufacturers. Despite their insane amount of money.

The Mac officially only had one OS for it when switching to Intel x86. That was MacOS X.

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On 11/18/2020 at 4:23 PM, LazyLand said:

Please tell me no, I'm tired of apple taking over in everything. 
I dislike apple, mainly because how the people that use their products behave. Many girls I know did this stupid challenge video where they put down a finger if they wanna date the guy described.. kind of. There's just a voice saying "He is cute but he has bad teeth" "He is cute but he is short" AND "He is cute but he has an android" I watched like 50 videos before one got their finger down about the android guy. That's the kind of person I talk about, and I kind of developed hate for apple. I know I shouldn't but idk I can't really control it I just kind of hate them.

 

But any way,
Please tell me amd and intel has what to show apple,  I don't want macbooks to take over everywhere. In my country they are still rare, but with how many people use iphones in my country it's just because It didn't really become a trend yet.. No way they can just beat 2 companies with all the experience and years behind, right?
right..?

Apple won't do that sick thing. x86 instructions became the foundation of modern computing. ARM also came from x86 but it has modified instruction sets which x86 doesn't support and it supports much lower power computing unlike x86 which supports high performance computing. So I don't think Apple would ditch x86 and if they do, their whole ecosystem will be messed up and will be infested with Kernel Panics and other software issues which deals with the loss of x86 instructions.

 

So don't whine about this matter, if Apple killed the x86 in their ecosystem. It would be definitely a too expensive and overpriced Kernel Panic machine for everyone to test.

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In short, no. There is no "macOS for ARM" and "macOS for x86." There is only macOS which is a universal binary. 

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41 minutes ago, CRWND_12 said:

Apple won't do that sick thing. x86 instructions became the foundation of modern computing. ARM also came from x86 but it has modified instruction sets which x86 doesn't support and it supports much lower power computing unlike x86 which supports high performance computing. So I don't think Apple would ditch x86 and if they do, their whole ecosystem will be messed up and will be infested with Kernel Panics and other software issues which deals with the loss of x86 instructions.

 

So don't whine about this matter, if Apple killed the x86 in their ecosystem. It would be definitely a too expensive and overpriced Kernel Panic machine for everyone to test.

Actually ARM didn't come from x86 at all. Acorn needed a replacement for the MOS 6502 8-bit CPU they were using in their BBC line. So their Main Engineer quickly developed a simple RISC 32-bit CPU. The resulting Microprocessor cost Acorn way less then other RISC Processors available to use.

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On 11/18/2020 at 2:42 AM, Levent said:

Holy shit. I never expected to see sexual frustration in combination with ARM architecture.

Straight up incel fuel tied to a brand image really.

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On 11/18/2020 at 9:23 PM, LazyLand said:

"He is cute but he has bad teeth" "He is cute but he is short" AND "He is cute but he has an android"

Can confirm your girl problems are the first two, not the third. What I've heard in public a few times now is drunk girls yell out "I'd eff your car but not you!"

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10 hours ago, whm1974 said:

So I can buy a ARM based Windows PC and install Linux or one of the BSDs? build my own ARM desktop? Install my own Hardware/Upgrades?

 

With x86-64 UEFI Systems I can do this. So that ISA is here to stay.

The day this is questioned in the personal PC market is when ARM has already caught on in the mainstream server market. Plus if any companies were poised for pushing this it would be Marvell or Ampere (or whomever buys them) not Apple.

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24 minutes ago, uncreativespace said:

The day this is questioned in the personal PC market is when ARM has already caught on in the mainstream server market. Plus if any companies were poised for pushing this it would be Marvell or Ampere (or whomever buys them) not Apple.

Just how common are ARM based Servers?

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Looking at the current info on M1, it seems like its only a matter of time before intel and amd go all in on ARM at least for mobile chips. 

And if it works that good, I don't think its a bad thing. We might see a split between mobile and desktop software where demanding games and software only work on desktops and the few x86 laptops left and i dont think there's anything about it worse than right now. i dont think shits gonna get worse because of better shit coming out

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Apple isn't the evil boogeyman you think they are lol

 

They're also not going to magically kill off x86 outside of the apple ecosystem. And if they did and everyone switched to arm, it wouldn't have anything to do with apple.

im new i like watching youtube and acting like an idiot online 

daily driving a desktop with i5-9600K and 2060S, an iphone 11 pro, and a nintendo switch lite :]

 

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