COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[WkdPaul]

24 minutes ago, 3 Lions said:

 

I honestly can't comprehend this position.

 

Masks in schools are mandatory here, it's no an issue, it's from the fear of COVID, but it'll also slow the spread of other diseases, so why is trying to keep kids safe is an issue ?? I really don't get it (he's also using logical fallacies, masks is one thing, the plastic box argument is BS and implying that wearing mask will hurt kid is just disingenuous).

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, oskar23 said:

Back in Canada in 90s there was a vaccine that made people autistic and friend of mine has 26 years old son who become autistic after getting vaccine. After a while they removed this vaccine and there was end of topic. Those who werent affected by vaccine probably will always say vaccines are great but stories of those who got affected by it wont be ever mentioned or heard. Sad.

 

Im not saying vaccines are conspiracy but with this global " pandemic " and how fast they want it to give it to us.. no thanks. Ive been fine for last 6 months and past 8 years without any vaccine.

 

For those who didnt see this thread that is up to this day. Market crash was predicted, exact date for market recovery was predicted, exact month when most of major cities suppoused to have covid etc. Good reading. Saw it back in March. Everything become true.

 

 

 

thread up to this day

archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/241674007

No. It didn't. You're talking about the fake science done by Andrew Wakefield:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield#The_Lancet_fraud

 

He claimed that the MMR (Measles, Mumps, Rubella) vaccine causes autism (spoiler alert, it doesn't). He manipulated results and skewed the study so that it looked like there was a correlation. It was literal fraud.

 

Want to know more? Sure, I'll tell you more.

 

Turns out that Wakefield actually had teamed up with a lawyer and a medical company that was creating a COMPETING Measles vaccine, which Wakefield had a financial stake in. The plan was to sue the MMR manufacturer, then make millions off of his own vaccine.

 

Almost immediately, problems with the study became apparent. Data didn't match properly. And it was never reproduced by other studies trying to peer review the science.

 

It was fake. The Lancet retracted the paper he published, and he was stripped of his medical license due to committing moral, ethical, and legal fraud.

 

And no, your friend's kid didn't get autism from the MMR vaccine. They were born with it.

[WkdPaul]

13 minutes ago, oskar23 said:

Back in Canada in 90s there was a vaccine that made people autistic and friend of mine has 26 years old son who become autistic after getting vaccine.

That's straight up lies, autism is genetic, that's not something that a vaccine can do. Instead of peddling conspiracy theories, look up REAL research and explanations as to why it's not possible. You don't believe the CDC or the WHO, fine, look at credible sources other than them, there are PLENTY!

 

Seriously, at an age where we have so much information at our fingertip, yet tons of people are only retaining the shit misinformation out there, it's troubling and disheartening.

[3 Lions]

37 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

I honestly can't comprehend this position.

 

Masks in schools are mandatory here, it's no an issue, it's from the fear of COVID, but it'll also slow the spread of other diseases, so why is trying to keep kids safe is an issue ?? I really don't get it (he's also using logical fallacies, masks is one thing, the plastic box argument is BS and implying that wearing mask will hurt kid is just disingenuous).

Because they are doing psychological damage to the future generations. They'll grow up living in constant fear and anxiety, they won't be able to deal with been face to face with other humans.

[HenrySalayne]

11 minutes ago, 3 Lions said:

Because they are doing psychological damage to the future generations. They'll grow up living in constant fear and anxiety, they won't be able to deal with been face to face with other humans.

A blanket can protect you from the monster under your bed but a face blanket protecting you from disease is traumatizing? Maybe you should take the time to explain it to your children without scaring them. It may take some effort, but it's worth it.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, 3 Lions said:

Because they are doing psychological damage to the future generations. They'll grow up living in constant fear and anxiety, they won't be able to deal with been face to face with other humans.

This is a misconception. Masks prevent transmission not infection - you can still catch coronavirus if you have a mask, but it is very unlikely to transmit once you have it, and wear a mask.

[Donut417]

38 minutes ago, 3 Lions said:

They'll grow up living in constant fear and anxiety, they won't be able to deal with been face to face with other humans.

That damage was done when they released smart phones. The younger generation does not like dealing with people to begin with. 

[3 Lions]

6 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

A blanket can protect you from the monster under your bed but a face blanket protecting you from disease is traumatizing? Maybe you should take the time to explain it to your children without scaring them. It may take some effort, but it's worth it.

The thing is, this has become much more than preventing a disease. Schools have now become indoctrination camps where they are breeding an army of fearful bedwetters. They are teaching kids to be fearful of people who don't wear masks, they are teaching kids to be fearful of people who don't socially distance & they are teaching kids to be fearful of people who don't use hand sanitizer. 

[captain_to_fire]

1 hour ago, oskar23 said:

Back in Canada in 90s there was a vaccine that made people autistic and friend of mine has 26 years old son who become autistic after getting vaccine. After a while they removed this vaccine and there was end of topic. Those who werent affected by vaccine probably will always say vaccines are great but stories of those who got affected by it wont be ever mentioned or heard. Sad.

No it doesn’t. 

• even though thimerosal is a mercury compound, its concentration in vaccines are so minuscule to cause toxicity even on infants 
• as shown above, the autism link to MMR has been disputed already 
• live vaccines such as the MMR cannot contain thimerosal or else it’ll be rendered useless 
• even though there’s no evidence that thimerosal causes autism, vaccine manufacturers took it up by themselves and phased out the use of thimerosal in favor of single use syringes that no longer needs it. 

 

[3 Lions]

7 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

This is a misconception. Masks prevent transmission not infection - you can still catch coronavirus if you have a mask, but it is very unlikely to transmit once you have it, and wear a mask.

But this has become much more than preventing a virus. A prevention measure is only temporary, we were told 3 months maximum. We are now 6 months in and the restrictions instead of being lifted are getting stricter and more ridiculous as time moves on.

[ARikozuM]

Just now, 3 Lions said:

But this has become much more than preventing a virus. A prevention measure is only temporary, we were told 3 months maximum. We are now 6 months in and the restrictions instead of being lifted are getting stricter and more ridiculous as time moves on.

That's because there has been no definitive action. The vast majority of states were slow to close and quick to open. Instead of having a concrete citizen-first plan we had a business-first plan and eventual recession with an eviction, medical, and housing crisis looming. If you're in the stock market, you likely sold as the first signs showed up, bought at the big drops, and are now planning on when to sell again when it inevitably goes down again. 

[WkdPaul]

58 minutes ago, 3 Lions said:

Because they are doing psychological damage to the future generations. They'll grow up living in constant fear and anxiety, they won't be able to deal with been face to face with other humans.

That's straight up disingenuous.

 

If that's what is actually happening in the UK, then you have an issue with school officials and teachers, not public health officials.

 

Having new rules and regulations is normal. And there's nothing wrong with wearing a mask, there's also nothing wrong with explaining why to kids, they understand, trust me.

[3 Lions]

6 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

If that's what is actually happening in the UK, then you have an issue with school officials and teachers, not public health officials.

Everyone in education system is responsible and that includes the parents.

 

8 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

nothing wrong with wearing a mask

Except when they shove propaganda like this down our throats...

 

[ARikozuM]

Just now, 3 Lions said:

Except when they shove propaganda like this down our throats...

 

Sounds like you've discovered the miracle of capitalism known as marketing...

 

/s on the miracle part. 

[Rybo]

19 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

there's nothing wrong with wearing a mask, there's also nothing wrong with explaining why to kids, they understand, trust me.

The one valid counterpoint to this that I've heard is the idea of security theater -- or in this case, a false sense of security.  If we're in a situation where improper use of a mask could actually be counterproductive, trying to force a bunch of apathetic people to wear one could result in more, not less, spread.  

Firstly, the masks that are in wide use aren't a replacement for social distancing guidelines.  That messaging clearly has not gotten across with our adult population.  I can't imagine how ineffective it is with our kids (anecdotally, kids don't give a hoot).  

Secondly, masks could, in some circumstances, be counterproductive.  If you are actually sick and dispensing germs into your mask, it's highly likely that you're also touching your mask, removing it temporarily to touch your germ-ridden face, etc, then touching everything with your germ-ridden fingers.  

 

Thus, the simple arithmetic of "if sick then wear mask" isn't universally applicable, and frankly that's about as complex a message as you're likely to be able to hammer into society's head.  And even that is barely penetrating our thick skulls.  Trying to add on, "Cover your nose.  Don't remove your mask to talk.  Don't touch the mask.  Don't move the mask to touch your face.  Wash your mask after you've used it." is several orders of magnitude more complex than our attention spans can tolerate. 

To me, the better approach would be "if sick then stay home".  Then we can shore up peoples' ability to actually do that.  That has the obvious failure point of being ineffective against diseases that are transmissible prior to first symptoms, but it has the enviable trait of being very nearly perfectly effective against transmission from people who clearly are sick.  

[WkdPaul]

3 minutes ago, Rybo said:

[...snip...]

To me, the better approach would be "if sick then stay home".  Then we can shore up peoples' ability to actually do that.  That has the obvious failure point of being ineffective against diseases that are transmissible prior to first symptoms, but it has the enviable trait of being very nearly perfectly effective against transmission from people who clearly are sick.  

Not sure how it is elsewhere, but it's exactly how it is with my daughter's school : anyone sick can only come back to school with a doctor's note and a COVID test, if negative, if positive, then quarantine has to be followed, and the kid can only come back with a family wide negative COVID test.

 

I'm sure other provinces and other schools have different rules, but it's certainly not a general security theater as you mentioned, though I'm sure there are places where it's just that, unfortunately.

[dalekphalm]

20 minutes ago, 3 Lions said:

Everyone in education system is responsible and that includes the parents.

 

Except when they shove propaganda like this down our throats...

 

That's not propaganda.. that's a really well done advertisement. While they're obviously upselling the righteousness of it, they're also not wrong. And they're trying to get you to buy one from them.

 

Sure yes, obviously it is a mask. But the idea behind it, that the intention is to protect your community and allow society to keep functioning in a somewhat normal state - these are definitely good values to listen to.

Like, if you watch that commercial, and you're like "this is a dumb commercial and I'm not gonna buy your product" - sure, that's fine. Nobody says you have to like Vistaprint masks as a product. But if you watch it and it upsets you on some core level, you should reflect upon that - that's irrational. Masks are an important part of current global health to manage and contain the spread of the virus. Making people feel safer and more powerful rather than fearful is not a bad thing. Fearing or hating a mask does nothing good, as there's no sense to it. For the extreme minority who have legitimate medical concerns with mask wearing - it's a very unfortunate situation. But that group is almost too small to register, as very few medical conditions actually inhibit mask usage. And those people are generally at the most risk, so the rest of us masking up really helps to protect them.

 

Aside from that, it's a stupid easy and simple way that a regular person can do to help. Why wouldn't you?

[3 Lions]

23 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Sounds like you've discovered the miracle of capitalism known as marketing...

Marketing doesn't push for a 'new normal'. 

[dalekphalm]

3 minutes ago, 3 Lions said:

Marketing doesn't push for a 'new normal'. 

Sure it does - actually all the time.

 

Anytime a commercial gets to try and make you think "Well, maybe a hot, steaming, delicious smelling coffee should be part of my breakfast routine - that's a "new normal", getting you to change your behaviour.

 

Sure sometimes it's more about replacing something with something similar but sold by a different company, but there are plenty of marketing campaigns that attempted (and succeeded) in getting people to fundamentally change something about their life - aka creating a "new normal".

 

Aside from that - spoiler alert - this is the new normal. The virus is real. The infections are real. And the risk is real. People need to get on board with this being the new normal if we want it to end in a reasonable time frame. People that want to pretend this isn't happening, or that their behaviour doesn't need to change, are largely worsening the situation for everyone.

 

Does that mean mask wearing will be socially required forever now? Hell no. I guarantee you that once a vaccine is out and widely distributed, and new case numbers drop to zero for long sustained periods, people everywhere will slowly stop wearing masks. And at least in some countries, like Canada, with a very free and democratic society protected by a strong constitution, those mask laws (which in Canada are almost entirely made up of Bylaws) will be removed. And those that aren't removed voluntarily, will be removed by force via the Courts enforcing constitutional law.

 

See, these mask laws in most democratic societies are only enforceable due to clauses about declared emergencies and public health crises. Once that health emergency is gone, the law is no longer constitutional, and any court challenge will have it removed.

 

Now, some despotic/authoritarian countries may have issues with the government being able to keep laws that would be "unconstitutional" in most free countries - but those people are already under dictatorship rule and a mask wearing policy isn't going to change that.

[Donut417]

50 minutes ago, 3 Lions said:

A prevention measure is only temporary, we were told 3 months maximum.

Yes, then the whole thing got worse because you had groups of people (You know who you are) were not following the rules. So now we have to tighten the belts. This whole thing would have been much faster and not as bad if people actually cared about others, wore the masks, and avoid major gatherings. But NOOOOOOOOOO, that was too easy. So instead in many states governors had to tighten restrictions to help control the number of cases. Not sure about England but here in Michigan we were running out of beds in hospitals and running out of ventilators. Which is the reason restrictions are in place, so that hospitals dont get overwhelmed. 

 

1 hour ago, 3 Lions said:

Schools have now become indoctrination camps where they are breeding an army of fearful bedwetters. They are teaching kids to be fearful of people who don't wear masks, they are teaching kids to be fearful of people who don't socially distance & they are teaching kids to be fearful of people who don't use hand sanitizer. 

Well, considering kids are messy and don't understand hygiene they had to put the fear of god in to them. The fact is kids would spread this disease like wildfire. The biggest issue with masks is people at least in the US don't care about other people besides themselves. The whole point of the masks to to help prevent the spread, or at least slow it down. In some areas of the world, like Japan for instance, they wear masks when they are sick, because they care about society as a whole. Thats not the case in the US. 

 

Another thought. What if this sickness was worse? Like Spanish Flu worse? People would be crying and moaning about getting it under control. At the very least with Covid 19, its like a test run for when something more serous hits. Id say most countries would not get a passing grade. 

[Nowak]

3 hours ago, 3 Lions said:

But this has become much more than preventing a virus. A prevention measure is only temporary, we were told 3 months maximum. We are now 6 months in and the restrictions instead of being lifted are getting stricter and more ridiculous as time moves on.

They're being lifted, because the governments of the UK and US decided that money is more important than trying to save lives. Our countries, the United States especially, have both failed their people.

 

I could be hanging out with my friends right now but because people decided "it's a liberal socialist (????) hoax" because things change as we learn more about how this virus works and how to limit the spread as much as possible while we work on vaccines I can't.

[3 Lions]

@dalekphalm

I'm gonna ask you to watch this...

 

[captain_to_fire]

1 minute ago, 3 Lions said:

-snip-

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, 3 Lions said:

But this has become much more than preventing a virus. A prevention measure is only temporary, we were told 3 months maximum. We are now 6 months in and the restrictions instead of being lifted are getting stricter and more ridiculous as time moves on.

That’s because:

1) public health in the US is garbage

2) people don’t listen and don’t social distance / wear masks

3) incompetence in lockdown measures 

 

people like to pass blame, especially at the federal level, but you can’t have all these riots, people not isolating, activism in the streets, and then wonder why the measures that people don’t follow aren’t working.

 

The only thing I would advise in the US is for the vulnerable, e.g diabetic, obese, to isolate and low-risk people to go to work as normal and risk it, and when a vaccine comes out, to take it. 

[Sarra]

I really miss the super light traffic that we had during the first few weeks...

 

Now traffic is even worse than before. On top of that, there's no firearms available for purchase (I was going to get a rifle for target shooting/plinking, but the model I want is on backorder), everyone is in a crap mood, traffic wrecks and traffic wreck injuries are way up (at least here), and my hours got reduced at work (but we are getting Hazard Pay, but it doesn't quite make up for it).

 

I'm only working 4 days a week, and my entire year's worth of vacation time has been spent already on 'day off' days, plus I'm out of sick time (due to actually being sick, go figure), but at least I have a cool mask...

 

Several people that I've known for a few years now at work have passed away due to this, but I'm not really putting much in that, since we have a few people pass away every few months anyways.