4900HSlow - 4900HS laptop has a new competitor

[WereCat]

18 hours ago, SkyHound0202 said:

God I wish Ryzen 9 3900 (non-X) was released to retail. Even better, a lower binned 16-core 65-watt "3950".

 

It make more sense to put a 65-watt chip in a laptop than a 105-watt 16-core monstrosity (or the same chip with hefty downclocking or significant power limit)

65W TDP version of the 3900X/3950X is a 65W profile you can enable either in BIOS or a Ryzen Master. You don't need a whole new CPU for that. 

[SkyHound0202]

1 hour ago, WereCat said:

65W TDP version of the 3900X/3950X is a 65W profile you can enable either in BIOS or a Ryzen Master.

Of course I know it's possible to do so through Package Power Tracking (PPT) in BIOS or "Eco Mode" in Ryzen Master.

1 hour ago, WereCat said:

You don't need a whole new CPU for that.

So why 3600 exists if you can just buy a 3600X and set it to 65 watt? The answer is yield, binning and market.

 

AMD has some chiplets on hand that failed initial qualification to be a functional octo-core and again failed binning to be a proper 3600X, so they packaged them as 3600 to fulfil the sub-$250 price bracket ($200).

 

The currently OEM-only 3900 is merely two of those chiplet on the same substrate with a tweaked clock speed. They could easily put them in a retail box and sell they at a $450 MSRP between 3800X ($400, fastest octo-core) and 3900X ($500, only AMD 12-core available).

[suicidalfranco]

 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, XMG Support said:

If you have any more comments, questions, concerns - please let me know!

 

Cheers,

Tom

 

 

more of a personal curiosity:

Is there a strong demand for this category of laptops Or is it just a niche line?

Cause from how i see it, you want desktop replacement that is as powerful as a desktop, but you'll barely carry it around due to the sheer size and weight of the thing, and if you do you'll have to think twice cause the battery will last as much as a UPS powering a an actual deskto PC. So in that sense wouldn't an AIO make more sense?

something like these:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[schwellmo92]

2 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

more of a personal curiosity:

Is there a strong demand for this category of laptops Or is it just a niche line?

Cause from how i see it, you want desktop replacement that is as powerful as a desktop, but you'll barely carry it around due to the sheer size and weight of the thing, and if you do you'll have to think twice cause the battery will last as much as a UPS powering a an actual deskto PC. So in that sense wouldn't an AIO make more sense?

something like these:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The big laptops are still plenty portable for lugging around. You just have to pack them up in to a bag and strap it to your back, you can really pluck them up with a single hand and walk off like normal laptops. For example we’ve had people present CAD and VR solutions to us and brought in some pretty hefty laptops to power the presentations.

[Guest]

On 4/1/2020 at 5:40 AM, 5x5 said:

I wonder if Intel are currently trying to figure out how to fit a water chiller onto a laptop

 

 

Scientists in Antarctica are currently trialling the new Intel processors outside. 

 

 

 

[Lurick]

2 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

 

 

Scientists in Antarctica are currently trialling the new Intel processors outside. 

 

 

 

 

 

They went backwards? I thought they were testing with liquid helium

 

 

 

[XMG Support]

On 4/1/2020 at 4:18 PM, Vishera said:

Using TDP is misleading - Every manufacturer tests TDP differently,and the manipulation of values to get a certain TDP is very common in the industry,for example you can manipulate the ambient temperature to get lower TDP.

Therefore TDP is unreliable to use and rely on,I prefer to use a reliable method like the power consumption of the CPU package.

Yes and no.

 

All 4 CPUs will work be operated by our BIOS under the same guidelines. Those are:

 

 

So in the "Entertainment" profile (which is default), the 65W TDP is true indeed.

 

 

On 4/1/2020 at 6:10 PM, Vishera said:

Also the RTX 2070 that runs at 1440 MHz boost is inadequate considering the cost of the machine and the CPU in there,

 

Not quite true. We have the new "Refresh"-Version of RTX 2070 Max-P. This comes with new low-powered GDDR6 which opens up more power for the GPU.

In our internal testing, we have a sustained GPU Clock Speed of around 1690MHz after 15min of Furmark+Prime.

 

 

20 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

Is there a strong demand for this category of laptops Or is it just a niche line?

Cause from how i see it, you want desktop replacement that is as powerful as a desktop, but you'll barely carry it around due to the sheer size and weight of the thing, and if you do you'll have to think twice cause the battery will last as much as a UPS powering a an actual deskto PC.

 

Everything we do is niche.

 

A clamshell 15" Laptop + external power supply will always be more compact and portable than a clumsy AiO + various accessories (mouse, keyboard).

Many customers like the fact that they can easily move the laptop between working desk, living room (+TV for couch gaming or VR) and office. Many industry customers need powerful machines they can take to their clients. Pull it out of the backpack, open the lid, start working/simulating/presenting.

 

Cheers,

Tom

[kieguru]

That thing is about as thick as decent gravy! Looks like a right powerhouse though

[genexis_x]

28 minutes ago, XMG Support said:

snip

Hi Tom, glad to see you in LTT forum. Would like to ask, is the Apex 15 with 2070S based on Clevo NH57AF1?

 

The power packed inside this machine is actually impressive. Below 3kg is totally acceptable to me if you consider that this kind of performance could only be found in high end Clevo models like P775TM1, which is much heavier. (compare among laptops)

[XMG Support]

19 minutes ago, genexis_x said:

Would like to ask, is the Apex 15 with 2070S based on Clevo NH57AF1?

Yes it is. Taken from our FAQ on Reddit:

Variations / Factory Options

Our ODM is building this laptop with different variations and some other features will depend on the brand.

Chassis-Design: Our ODM is offering this chassis in 4 different variations.

• NH50: Picture 1 - 2 - 3

• NH55: Picture 1 - 2 - 3

• NH57: Picture 1 - 2 - 3

• NH58: Picture 1 - 2 - 3

The features, mechanical engineering and mainboard layout are identical on each one of these – the chassis is purely about cosmetics and haptics. We picked the NH57 variation because it’s the only one where the LCD lid is made from metal. You can really feel the difference – it’s a much more quality / high-end feeling. NH55 was a close contender but it was covered in a semi-glossy IMR coating which is a bit too prone to collect fingerprints – it looks more matte on the pictures than in real-life.

Overall, the NH57 is the best choice, even though it costs a couple of dollars more in production.

Fingerprint-Reader: the F/P Reader is situated in the top left corner of the touchpad when you order XMG APEX 15. Other brands might not offer this convenient feature.

TPM: the ODM usually offers the mainboard with either dedicated TPM (dTPM) or with a Firmware TPM implementation (fTPM). In Intel, the fTPM is called Intel PTT. AMD does not seem to have a specific marketing name for their own fTPM solution. Regardless, we are building XMG APEX 15 with dedicated TPM 2.0 from Infineon.

Keyboard Layouts: our ODM has their own unique keyboard design – love it or hate it. We at XMG make our own keyboard layouts and our layout for this model will differ from the ODM standard. The keyboard in this model is the same as in previous XMG PRO so the layouts have already been drawn for over 20 keyboard languages for the pan-European market.

RAM: AMD Ryzen can go up to 3200MHz, but the modules need to be able to support this spec natively. The NH series does not support XMP memory profiles. In our FAQ we will keep a list of memory modules that are guaranteed to give you the 3200MHz memory speed. For price-sensitive buyers, we also offer a 2666MHz budget option. According to our tests, the performance gap between is about 5% on Ryzen 5 3600 but only 2% on Ryzen 9 3900.

LCD: the NH series is available with 3 different panel specs: 60Hz with either 45% or 72% NTSC Gamut and the 144Hz top spec, likewise with 72% NTSC. We are committed to build all XMG APEX 15 with the best available LCD panel.

BIOS: our ODM’s standard BIOS usually only comes with a minimal amount of options and features. We have worked with our ODM to extend those options to deliver as many expert tuning options as reasonably possible. This includes various Undervolting options. At the same time, XMG APEX 15 can also be tweaked with RyzenAdj and Ryzen Master.

Brand: we offer a fully debranded option where your laptop will remain completely blank with no printing and no laser-etching on any of the surfaces. Our brand will only remain on the rating label and in the BIOS boot logo. On top of that, all XMG and SCHENKER models are delivered without any stickers (Intel, AMD, NVIDIA, HDMI etc.) on the palm rest area. Where possible, the stickers will be put into the shipping package for your personal usage.

 

Cheers,
Tom

[genexis_x]

28 minutes ago, XMG Support said:

Yes it is

Apex 15 supports RyzenAdj and Ryzen Master? Cool.

[Vishera]

2 hours ago, XMG Support said:

Yes and no.

 

All 4 CPUs will work be operated by our BIOS under the same guidelines. Those are:

 

 

So in the "Entertainment" profile (which is default), the 65W TDP is true indeed.

"Guidelines" - An interesting way to call your method of calculating and testing TDP,

Either-way,TDP is misleading since manufacturers tend to use different "guidelines".

 

"CPU Temp Target" - Sounds like the target of the fan profile,

So in power saving mode the system will be quieter than the performance mode,but not necessarily cooler due to the temp target.

2 hours ago, XMG Support said:

Not quite true. We have the new "Refresh"-Version of RTX 2070 Max-P. This comes with new low-powered GDDR6 which opens up more power for the GPU.

In our internal testing, we have a sustained GPU Clock Speed of around 1690MHz after 15min of Furmark+Prime.

That should give a significant improvement in performance,I have to test one of those yet.

I wonder if the quality of the silicon allows you to increase the clock speed of those chips to at least 1800MHz with the CPU load at less than 25%.

I also wonder about the clock speed of the GDDR6.

[CephDigital]

On 3/31/2020 at 5:43 PM, Konrad_K said:

Yes it is faster, but I'd say that calling this beast a "laptop" is a little far fetched. Yes, technically it is a laptop but it's way to big and to be comfortable to carry in a backpack and the battery life is most probably awful, and the large power adapter is probably as heavy as a modern thin and light. 

Actually no, looking at the size and weight on the website, this isn't that much bigger and heavier than my current laptop: the XMG PRO 15 (Clevo PB51EF-G). Battery life still goes down the toilet though

And that is more than comfortable to carry around (I walk 30 mins to my lectures with this in a messenger-style bag, with the same 230W brick, it is not bad at all)

 

Size from their site:

PRO 15: 359 x 257.8 X 29.9 mm (W x D x H) @ 2.5KG

APEX 15: 361 x 258 x 32.5 mm (W x D x H) @ 2.6KG

[nick name]

On 3/31/2020 at 11:40 AM, 5x5 said:

I wonder if Intel are currently trying to figure out how to fit a water chiller onto a laptop

Don't you remember ASUS doing that already?

[5x5]

49 minutes ago, nick name said:

Don't you remember ASUS doing that already?

Wasn't a chiller tho - only a water block

[Doobeedoo]

Yeah having that CPU in a laptop is very impressive, pretty amazing.

[nick name]

2 hours ago, 5x5 said:

Wasn't a chiller tho - only a water block

Don't you remember ASUS doing half of that already?  

[XMG Support]

4 hours ago, TheUberMedic said:

Battery life still goes down the toilet though

Not if you enable MSHybrid (NVIDIA Optimus) in the BIOS on your XMG PRO 15. Unfortunately this is not an option for the APEX because the AMD Desktop-CPU does not have an iGPU included. Gotta save silicon somehow.

 

4 hours ago, Vishera said:

"Guidelines" - An interesting way to call your method of calculating and testing TDP,

Not sure what you mean. The numbers I've quoted come directly from the BIOS. The changes in power consumption can be seen directly on the power meter on the wall socket.

 

It's true that comparing TDP between different vendors (Intel, AMD, NVIDIA) is not showing the full picture. The advertised TDP is usually supposed to guarantee the so-called "base clock". The boost clocks however (and how long they'll be sustained) or totally up to the motherboard/laptop/BIOS implementation, especially in Intel and AMD CPUs. In NVIDIA GPUs, the VBIOS is much more restrictive and only allows a certain amount of power budget. But even those can be overclocked further with some tricks by the system vendor.

 

Anyway, exciting to see how much feedback we're getting on this new release. We've already tracked 56 non-German websites that have reported on this baby. Review samples are on their way...!

 

Cheers,

Tom

PC Enthusiast since 1993

[WereCatf]

On 4/1/2020 at 6:56 AM, XMG Support said:

Hi, this is the official XMG Support, here to answer all of your questions!

Oh, hey! I have a very crucial question about the XMG-laptops of yours: who do I have to sleep with and how many times to get a free one?

[5x5]

9 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

Oh, hey! I have a very crucial question about the XMG-laptops of yours: who do I have to sleep with and how many times to get a free one?

I'd rather they give me a job over a laptop, with corona causing rampant unemployment over here

[rcmaehl]

45 minutes ago, XMG Support said:

Anyway, exciting to see how much feedback we're getting on this new release. We've already tracked 56 non-German websites that have reported on this baby. Review samples are on their way...!

I wouldn't say that I'm a reporter as this is just a community post but it definitely looks sexy. Definitely could consider this as a desktop replacement for my 1800X system but I'll have to see what Zen2+ has in store in the coming months.

[jtmoseley]

On 3/31/2020 at 11:37 AM, rcmaehl said:

Source:
VideoCardz (media source)
Tom's Hardware (quote source)

 

Summary:

In typical gaming laptop fashion, the 4900HS has already been dethroned by a more powerful laptop, the XMG Apex 15 featuring a full desktop Ryzen 9 3950X.
 

Media:

 

Quotes/Excerpts:

 

My Thoughts:
STOP STOP. THEY'RE ALREADY DEAD. It looks like high-end laptops are getting extremely competitive this year and I am more than happy. Per derbauer's own graphs, the R9 3900X is 44% faster than the 4900HS, it'll be interesting to watch the gaming and professional laptop space the rest of the year and onwards.

With a whopping 20 minutes of battery life

[descendency]

On 3/31/2020 at 12:41 PM, TempestCatto said:

My question is, is like the Alienware where you can actually replace the CPU? If so, I see value in this - and good competition.

Introducing the ASUS ROG GX700VO Chiller edition...

[BuckGup]

On 3/31/2020 at 11:40 AM, 5x5 said:

I wonder if Intel are currently trying to figure out how to fit a water chiller onto a laptop

Asus already had one a couple years ago lol

[Fasauceome]

Important questions:

A) is it socketed

B) is it supported for future updates

 

The Asus GL702ZC supported a full AM4 socket with up to a Ryzen 7 1700X, but only supported first generation Ryzen.