Youtube forced to step in.

[Muffin_man17]

34 minutes ago, matrix07012 said:

Oh no, somebody said something mean ON THE INTERNET! THE HORROR!

 

Ha, take that!

[ThePD]

12 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Racism isn't a natural instinct - most ancient civilizations and most non western societies don't have this problem nearly as much - and whichever way you twist it, it's a problem regardless of the cause. Active racists don't deserve a place in society, period. Even if there is a "sickness" that caused the "symptom", limiting the symptoms is usually the first priority in any medical intervention.

Are you trying to say ancient civilizations did not have racism? Because they absolutely did. What do you think slave labor was? Our world today is far less racist than it has been in history. Just because the vocal minority is loud, there is no way in hell the US is even close to what it was in its history. A overwhelming majority are just regular ass people just trying to make ends meet. Extremists are always polarized and do not represent the majority of society.

[SolarNova]

15 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Racism isn't a natural instinct

Do you truly , really believe that ?

 

If so , then this is a key example ,for others, of how teachingpeople to behave in a way that a person (the teacher, or ruling party) deemsis correct and right in an ideal world, is totally separated from reality.

 

Racism, the word Humans, English speaking humans, gave to the act of judging a person(s) based on differences, be it skin or color or otherwise, and acting negatively ..or even positively, towards them due to it, is in fact VERY natural.

 

if a person was born without any senses, racism would not exist within that person, because they could not differentiate one person from another in regards to their physical differences. And without senses they also wouldn't be able to know another persons beliefs and thus could not judge them compared to themselves.

 

Racism is very much a natural thing, An native African will notice the difference in skin color when they meet a native English person just the same as the other way around, and will make judgements based on that. The will think, "hey this person is different" .. that right there is racism. Judgments further made, due to those physical differences both in skin color and skeletal differences further give example of racism. Those judgements can be both good and bad.

Even in the animal kingdom, animals of the same category of species will differentiate between subgroups, technically, racism.

 

Racism IS natural, Humanity has deemed certain extremes of racism unacceptable in society. So much of human life is artificial, good , evil, right wrong ,, all creations of humanity. Racism however, is not one of them. ..just the word is.

 

Every human is racist to a degree, it only becomes a problem when that degree goes to far as judged by the society in question.

[Ravenbear]

On 4/9/2019 at 2:55 PM, SolarNova said:

Problem is, in law .. it has been defined,, and it unfortunately results in people simply stating that " so and so said XYZ, im offended by that becouse ABC" and thats that.. its hate speech.

 

I mean for example , in the UK a well known large retail chain store has been told a product is racist and has pulled it.

What was it .. it was a easter set of 3 chocolate ducks called Crispy,Fluffy,Ugly.

Cripsy is a 'normal' chocolate duck,

Fluffy is a 'white chocolate' duck ,

Ugly is a 'dark chocolate duck with colored splotches' ..

Ofc a group of people put in complaints that because the 'dark chocolate' duck was called 'Ugly' that its racist .

 

I mean FFS ,,a chocolate easter duck ........

 

According to some this item was promoting racism ,, which is ofc a form of hate speech. .. The definition isnt necessarily the problem, its how people twist anything and everything and then say it fits that definition.

Could not agree with you more. I was in the US Army 22 years, Doctors without Borders for 3 and a private security consultant for overseas clients and traveled more.  I say all this to bring up a point. I have seen dozens of different cultures and spiritual beliefs. I look at the 1st would and hear all this about racism and hate etc.   That is minor and blown so out of proportion to make and if you mind the cliche' molehill into a mountain' when it is compared to the rest of the world.  The team I worked with was made up of people from all over the world. They are still some of my best friends, one is from the Ivory Coast, another from Ukraine and the leader was South African and female.  There never was any hostility, hate or any of that crap, Sorry long winded, it leads up to this, my friends from the Ivory Coast and another from Sudan found out I was from the Southern US.  They came to me and wanted to know where I stood because they were black. Their idea of a southern man from the US as racist, sheet wearing evil men. All from what they saw in the media that got to them.  They were still under the impression that blacks were segregated and that all our families own slaves. This was all early when our team was put together and had not formed the bond that came later. I laughed at them and we had a talk that took a couple of days.  In the end, they learned that the US was not a Mordor for blacks, and I learned that the tribal hatred in a lot of Africa was much more insidious than anything I knew of or most of the 1st world.  And it still goes on today. And slavery still exists and is bigger than it ever was.  Summing this up, a lot of people are happy not having to spend the time to learn about the real world and what really is here and out there in the world. They are happy in their self-imposed ignorance, more than willing to take what the media tells them is the truth in a sort of blind faith. That is more worrying to me than anything else.  Here is a good book on this, a good read if you ask me,  https://www.amazon.com/Lies-My-Teacher-Told-Everything/dp/1620973928/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3LSHQWXHVC4UZ&keywords=lies+my+teacher+told+me+by+james+loewen&qid=1554842260&s=gateway&sprefix=lies+my%2Caps%2C506&sr=8-1   

The author is a college history professor.   If you have gotten this far thanks for taking the time to read my little monologue.

[hobobobo]

34 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Bullying does not need to be physical to cause serious harm. I consider that an action, even if it's "just words". Racism is actually illegal in many countries, be it through words or actions. You can't go around demeaning people for their skin color in a civilized country. Doing it on the internet is no better.

It's not about changing them. Some people can't be changed. It's enough to kick them out of civilized interactions.

Racism isn't a natural instinct - most ancient civilizations and most non western societies don't have this problem nearly as much - and whichever way you twist it, it's a problem regardless of the cause. Active racists don't deserve a place in society, period. Even if there is a "sickness" that caused the "symptom", limiting the symptoms is usually the first priority in any medical intervention.

Emotinal harm is subjective, the moment you equate it to physical harm or harrasment you loose a semblence of reason. People are never demeaned just for their skin colour, youd have to be quite self-centred to consider the motives of "racist" to be so simple. Kick them out of civilization and youll find a great size of the population "outside". Unless you plan to reinstate banishment, or perhaps consider life-long jail time, they aint leaving, they have their legit grievances and you just kick em out. Honestly, sounds like a dream scenario to me, would be great to have a major war on some other continent

 

Ofc racism is natural, before the advent of instant communication communities, countries, fieldoms, counties etc had meaning. Unless you were in the city, of which there were like 20 on the globe, you pretty much saw the same kind of people your whole life. Add pagan beliefs, and even abrahamic religions got shittons of those, lack of prevalent scientific method and open access to it and general superstition and you get things scarier then some "racism", whole ethnoses were exctinguished in droves for whatever reason, conquest, holy war, fun, nippon banzai.

 

Yea, far fetched analogies are always the best basis for a solution. Perhaps proper racists consider jews/gypsies/chinesee to be a malignant tumor on the conceptual earthern human body, and they are performing the role our feeble bodies cant - they fight the tumor. You have given me a new perspective to think on

[hobobobo]

oops, somehow doubleposted

[Sakkura]

2 hours ago, Tech_Dreamer said:

sure , but it's intent is excessively derogatory,defamatory,insulting nevertheless, which bears it's own weight.

It's not comparable to hate speech.

[mr moose]

It's a hard debate to have, but the only way to move forward is if people first accept that the line between free speech and harm is not thin or well defined, it is quite thick and mostly blurred with curvy edges (maybe even a few swiss cheese holes).   I like Jordan Peterson's explanations the best, they don't exactly answer any questions,  but they do setup the framework upon which answers can be considered.

[Sauron]

48 minutes ago, ThePD said:

Are you trying to say ancient civilizations did not have racism? Because they absolutely did. What do you think slave labor was?

Slave labor in ancient times wasn't based on skin color. The Romans had dark Emperors.

50 minutes ago, ThePD said:

Our world today is far less racist than it has been in history.

In recent history, sure; but the concept of "race" as we have it today was mainly spawned by the trans-Atlantic slave trade in the 1400s. Only then was skin color used to demean the humanity of the slaves to make their treatment appear more acceptable. Racism is an economical phenomenon and it was entirely manufactured by those who could profit from it. Unlike before, slaves weren't prisoners of war or the spoils of a conquered city, the "weak" serving the "strong" who bested them - they were a commodity, something to be traded like cattle, and therefore their humanity needed to be diminished.

 

To be clear, slavery has never been a nice thing - but racism isn't inherently a part of it.

58 minutes ago, ThePD said:

Just because the vocal minority is loud, there is no way in hell the US is even close to what it was in its history. A overwhelming majority are just regular ass people just trying to make ends meet.

I never claimed otherwise - but racism is systemic, and even people who don't mean it can inadvertently be part of the cycle.

39 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

Do you truly , really believe that ?

 

If so , then this is a key example ,for others, of how teachingpeople to behave in a way that a person (the teacher, or ruling party) deemsis correct and right in an ideal world, is totally separated from reality.

 

Racism, the word Humans, English speaking humans, gave to the act of judging a person(s) based on differences, be it skin or color or otherwise, and acting negatively ..or even positively, towards them due to it, is in fact VERY natural.

 

if a person was born without any senses, racism would not exist within that person, because they could not differentiate one person from another in regards to their physical differences. And without senses they also wouldn't be able to know another persons beliefs and thus could not judge them compared to themselves.

 

Racism is very much a natural thing, An native African will notice the difference in skin color when they meet a native English person just the same as the other way around, and will make judgements based on that. The will think, "hey this person is different" .. that right there is racism. Judgments further made, due to those physical differences both in skin color and skeletal differences further give example of racism. Those judgements can be both good and bad.

Even in the animal kingdom, animals of the same category of species will differentiate between subgroups, technically, racism.

 

Racism IS natural, Humanity has deemed certain extremes of racism unacceptable in society. So much of human life is artificial, good , evil, right wrong ,, all creations of humanity. Racism however, is not one of them. ..just the word is.

 

Every human is racist to a degree, it only becomes a problem when that degree goes to far as judged by the society in question.

You can notice the difference between you and a person with a different skin tone without hating them or considering them to be lesser human beings. Prejudice is also not inherently racist, and without systemic hatred it is quite rare; when you see someone who looks different from you, the first human instinct is curiosity, not fear or hate, unless their society has taught them otherwise.

33 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

Perhaps proper racists consider jews/gypsies/chinesee to be a malignant tumor on the conceptual earthern human body, and they are performing the role our feeble bodies cant - they fight the tumor.

If you think that, you're insane.

[hobobobo]

5 minutes ago, Sauron said:

If you think that, you're insane.

this is just extrapolation based on your last analogy on fighting symptoms. You have given me quite alot food for thought, perhaps ill agree with your conclusions

[Sauron]

Just now, hobobobo said:

this is just extrapolation based on your last analogy on fighting symptoms. You have given me quite alot food for thought, perhaps ill agree with your conclusions

I'll let you in on a little secret: if you take an analogy that was made to make one point and try to use it to make a completely different point, it doesn't work. And you were the one who compared racists to the symptoms of a disease, not me. You just decided that analogy was bad when it became obvious that it didn't support your conclusion.

[Brooksie359]

3 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Everyone hates everyone that's not them. Japanese are pretty racists towards blacks and so on.

Yeah it's weird to think about people being racist who aren't white. I guess it makes sense but I was a bit surprised when my friend from Korea said that alot of the Asian countries are pretty racist toward each other and Japanese have been know to be racist toward basically everyone. Now this is a huge generalization so I would definitely take it as that. 

[hobobobo]

2 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I'll let you in on a little secret: if you take an analogy that was made to make one point and try to use it to make a completely different point, it doesn't work. And you were the one who compared racists to the symptoms of a disease, not me. You just decided that analogy was bad when it became obvious that it didn't support your conclusion.

that analogy just makes it easier to say "phenomenon arisen from political, economical and class issues amplyfied by rapid development of technology and what it ensues". It suggests no actions, it servers one purpose - to make it easier to communicate a concept. The analogy of treating symptoms instead of treating the illnes is not only bad as an idea of its own, treating symptoms instead of the cause is what gets you killed with serios illneses, it invites a futher train of twisted ideas which i tried to demonstrate to you but, alas, failed.

And i honestly question whats the chicken and whats the egg with this point to you

[Sauron]

4 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

that analogy just makes it easier to say "phenomenon arisen from political, economical and class issues amplyfied by rapid development of technology and what it ensues". It suggests no actions, it servers one purpose - to make it easier to communicate a concept. The analogy of treating symptoms instead of treating the illnes is not only bad as an idea of its own, treating symptoms instead of the cause is what gets you killed with serios illneses, it invites a futher train of twisted ideas which i tried to demonstrate to you but, alas, failed.

And i honestly question whats the chicken and whats the egg with this point to you

I think I'm the chicken for not seeing this conversation was going nowhere productive a lot sooner.

[hobobobo]

2 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I think I'm the chicken for not seeing this conversation was going nowhere productive a lot sooner.

Well, i tried constructive points but you ignored them.

What would happen to people excluded from society? prison? banishment? death? Because if not - they are not going away and you are inviting war instead of trying to look beyond hurtful words and try to undestand the cause of them.

[PlayStation 2]

I love how people can justify censorship with "but it's nazis".

Like we can't take any random ass political opinion and make someone look stupid by just plastering a label to it.

Literally like 95% of "hate" on these streams are just trolls. Ignore 'em.

[BuckGup]

1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

Yeah it's weird to think about people being racist who aren't white. I guess it makes sense but I was a bit surprised when my friend from Korea said that alot of the Asian countries are pretty racist toward each other and Japanese have been know to be racist toward basically everyone. Now this is a huge generalization so I would definitely take it as that. 

Not really that hard at all lol. Sorta racist to think white people are the only racists

[Eaglerino]

As usual, ending hate speech means deleting free speech

[MrFixitBlankFace]

I sense this is turning into a political discussion.

[justpoet]

"and this one time, on the internet, we took something political, and we made a meme…"…and it was censored.

[Brooksie359]

1 hour ago, BuckGup said:

Not really that hard at all lol. Sorta racist to think white people are the only racists

It seems obvious that it wouldn't only be white people when you think about it but it is still weird because whenever you see racism portrayed in movies and TV shows it is usually a white person. I dont think I can think of an instance where it wasn't. 

[mr moose]

10 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

My reasoning? They are a utility, they essentially act as a mirror for the public to view and converse with itself, and they are publicly available. You do not have to apply and be accepted, you do not have to be invited.

 

And they give everyone an equal voice presented as an equal authority.  I don't have a problem with everyone having access to an equal platform, but I do take umbrage to everyone being presented as equally authoritative.   Having feelings does not make someone wiser or better educated than a conventionally educated professor with 40 years experience, so they shouldn't have the ability to present as a professional.

[Taf the Ghost]

Astroturf works best when no one realizes it is astroturf. This was a bright & shiny one, and I see everyone took the bait. Someone is having a good laugh that it made the news.

 

As a practical matter, any comments section on the Internet is easily taken over by bots for very, very cheap. So this was one of those clear setups. You can basically find all of "White Nationalism" on a couple of forums and that's the extent of their reach. (It's an incoherent ideology, which is why.) If you hear about a "hate crime", it's almost always a hoax, beyond the "hate crime" laws being a horrible offense to any sense of Justice. (It's called "Malice" and it's been a developed understanding for 100s of years. "Hate Crime" laws exist to make Coastals feel better about themselves, ignoring where most of the crimes tagged with it happens.)  Black churches get burned when there is a dispute within the church, and swastikas shows up on synagogues when there is a split among the leadership.  (The best ones is when they're attack by a wild band of Buddhists.)

 

So the setup works like this. The Dems call a hearing on something that doesn't matter, their online astroturf army floods the comments sections forcing a reaction, and we get news pieces about it. To the point it shows up even here. Discussion is fixed around a point that is completely fake. YT gets to grandstand about being against "Hate", we spiral into discussions about Free Speech and some people get to fluff their own vanity about how they aren't like those "people". (Please ignore that because America has several genetically distinct European-descended populations, the "I'm not like those people" sentiment is actually racist in nature, being it's a "my tribe is better than there tribe" statement. It would also be class-based, as well.) 

 

Reality is that any "open" discussion is pretty much dead on the front-facing Internet. You have to manage & curate your users, but, even then, you're looking at active measures to infiltrate and control any space that tries to stay fairly open. There's a reason people moved to Social Media very quickly, and have just as rapidly moved to much more confined spaces.  Everything is always getting derailed if you don't.

[ATFink]

10 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

But why jews specifically? There's african, indians, arabs, asians, etc

Historically "Jews" have been stereotyped by certain generalized character traits, physical features, and trends from their people regardless of the scope of exaggeration involved in said stereotypes. I will not repeat any slanders used against them on this forum. Some people believe that people of Jewish lineage/faith have a disproportionate amount of wealth/power for stereotypical reasons and associate that with said historic slanders to form a negative opinion about "Jews" in general.

 

TL;DR people are jealous, fickle, and willing to blame/slander others before actually considering whether or not they are the problem in their own lives (not always the problem but often times the case).

[ATFink]

Knowing how crazy some "journalists" are for a hit piece I wouldn't be surprised if a payment was made to someone with a botnet by one the writers for the strict purpose of generating an exploitable news story. Maybe said writer(s) made the comments with an anonymous account(s) themself(s). I've seen worse actions taken by individuals in the media in the past.

 

Alternatively this could have been legit. The internet should never cease to surprise anyone.