Youtube forced to step in.

[Guest]

Rightwing extremisme is a growing factor it seems all over the world….. With struggling economy's and a lot of native inhabitants feeling treated less, or to much governmental focus on refugee's outsiders, which seems the most simplest thing to do, it is an easy equasion… especially if a lot of crime can be lead back into foreigner fields... While maybe the government seems to be the rightfull focus point of that anger.. anyway .. yea YouTube should step in.. at least it is an action which in its self will yield more anger in an already angry group but stays at the same time a strong rejection of hate based opinions

 

[Tech_Dreamer]

4 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

Those are not racist slurs...

sure , but it's intent is excessively derogatory,defamatory,insulting nevertheless, which bears it's own weight.

[hobobobo]

7 minutes ago, Sauron said:

This is equivalent to bullying, which does not go away by "learning to ignore things". I think it's these people who need to learn to not be fucking sociopaths. Antisemitism and racism in general is not "poking other people for fun". Do it enough and it has real, tangible social consequences which the US has been a great example of for the last few hundred years. It only gets better if you make it very clear that racists are not welcome in regular society nor on the public internet.

 

It's not "just trolling", that's what they want you to think so you'll ignore them. If you take a trip on the *chans (not that I recommend it) they explain very clearly what this is about.

Bullying is directed to one person and has its aim to hurt, humiliate etc. This is same but very different. Its a shot into the dark to either provoke a reaction or find likeminded people. Im sorry, but sociopathy is fixing imaginary internet issues and ignore the shitshow going in real world, which has nothing to do with racism, anti-semitism or whatever. This is pure trolling, no matter what they think on chans, they can build grand conspiracies, create plans etc. It will all fall down either coz its not real or coz the police/agencies are doing its job.  Choping an arm off coz you have a pimple there is retarded. What you advocate is the aim of those people, if anything. Dont feed the troll

 

US is full of loud-mouthed thin-skinned people, who either actually are as described or see a good way to profit of it. Its whole history is a shit show and only a lunatic would consider US society of any period to be a model one

[SolarNova]

'hate speech' nowadays is anything that the current 'status quo' leadership,government, big wigs etc ,,, don't want to hear and /or don't like. If they don't agree with u .. ur spewing hate speech according to them. This kind of tactic has become very prevalent, media organizations love to use it to push their agendas for example.

[WereCatf]

In hindsight, I shouldn't even have read this thread. I'm acutely aware of how terrible humans can be, having been subjected to hate-crimes myself as well, and these threads just remind me of that and then I get depressed and get suicidal thoughts. I'm gonna bow out of the rest of the conversation, for my own stability's sake.

[Ravenbear]

Bunch of faceless internet rolls and people take as if it was serious and a call to arms.  A fact that people take it as fact is scarier than what its.

[Tech_Dreamer]

1 minute ago, SolarNova said:

'hate speech' nowadays is anything that the current 'status quo' leadership,government, big wigs etc ,,, don't want to hear and /or don't like. If they don't agree with u .. ur spewing hate speech according to them. This kind of tactic has become very prevalent, media organizations love to use it to push their agendas for example.

yeah it's very noticeable , they use it to provoke & not resolve anything, journalist has been doing this in excess nowadays, throw around like buzz words. but some are oblivious to differentiate between criticism & actual hate stuff or whatever. they play-around that grey area a lot at the expense of other peoples trust.

[SolarNova]

9 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

Rightwing extremisme is a growing factor it seems all over the world….. With struggling economy's and a lot of native inhabitants feeling treated less, or to much governmental focus on refugee's outsiders, which seems the most simplest thing to do, it is an easy equasion… especially if a lot of crime can be lead back into foreigner fields... While maybe the government seems to be the rightfull focus point of that anger.. anyway .. yea YouTube should step in.. at least it is an action which in its self will yield more anger in an already angry group but stays at the same time a strong rejection of hate based opinions

 

The problem is, while right wing extremism is an old hat we have had to deal with for ever, it is very ..obvious... for the most part. Left wing extremism however is much more worrisome since 'the left' are regularly in control of ...everything. So when certain groups and people become left wing extremists, not only are they hard to see anyway due to the nature of left wing extremism, they are also in positions to take action that directly affects everyone else, unlike right wing extremists.

[ThePD]

So a bunch of people went and trolled a comment section. How totally unexpected! Why do we need to change everything because a small few decided to troll. The fact that people think we need to stop such an event shows just how knee-jerk reactionary we have become as a society. There are asshats around the world of every race, we don't need to change our lives just because a few of them decided to go on a tirade on the internet.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, SolarNova said:

The problem is, while right wing extremism is an old hat we have had to deal with for ever, it is very ..obvious... for the most part.

 

Left wing extremism however is much more worrisome since 'the left' are regularly in control of ...everything. So when certain groups and people become left wing extremists, not only are they hard to see anyway due to the nature of left wing extremism, they are also in positions to take action that directly affects everyone else, unlike right wing extremists.

Yea but that is about the same argument that " the pen is mightier then the sword " 

All in all if a leader is not able to confince his following that less hatefull behaviour would be appreciated he is a problem.. at least in my book

[Ravenbear]

2 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

'hate speech' nowadays is anything that the current 'status quo' leadership,government, big wigs etc ,,, don't want to hear and /or don't like. If they don't agree with u .. ur spewing hate speech according to them. This kind of tactic has become very prevalent, media organizations love to use it to push their agendas for example.

Someone really needs to define what hate speech is. It is not some saying they do not like, you or someone else, or even a group of people.  And racism and hate speech affects all people. I have been told many times you cannot be racist to a white man they have all the "privilege", yeah right. Tell that to the Irish.   This whole mess is stirred to the max by the brainless news media and making something that is bad, much worse than it is.

[hobobobo]

Looking at people as a groups and thinking that common race/gender/occupation/whatever makes people homogenous is killing everything it touches... and people want more compassion towards "marginalized groups" even though its just a pull of a heartstring. The frequency with which i hear the word think instead of feel in day to day english is depressing, just either destroy yourselves already or stop this ridiculous shit and focus on important things, not shoot the sky and youll hit a star

[SolarNova]

1 minute ago, Ravenbear said:

Someone really needs to define what hate speech is. It is not some saying they do not like, you or someone else, or even a group of people.  And racism and hate speech affects all people. I have been told many times you cannot be racist to a white man they have all the "privilege", yeah right. Tell that to the Irish.   This whole mess is stirred to the max by the brainless news media and making something that is bad, much worse than it is.

Problem is, in law .. it has been defined,, and it unfortunately results in people simply stating that " so and so said XYZ, im offended by that becouse ABC" and thats that.. its hate speech.

 

I mean for example , in the UK a well known large retail chain store has been told a product is racist and has pulled it.

What was it .. it was a easter set of 3 chocolate ducks called Crispy,Fluffy,Ugly.

Cripsy is a 'normal' chocolate duck,

Fluffy is a 'white chocolate' duck ,

Ugly is a 'dark chocolate duck with colored splotches' ..

Ofc a group of people put in complaints that because the 'dark chocolate' duck was called 'Ugly' that its racist .

 

I mean FFS ,,a chocolate easter duck ........

 

According to some this item was promoting racism ,, which is ofc a form of hate speech. .. The definition isnt necessarily the problem, its how people twist anything and everything and then say it fits that definition.

[Sauron]

15 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

'hate speech' nowadays is anything that the current 'status quo' leadership,government, big wigs etc ,,, don't want to hear and /or don't like. If they don't agree with u .. ur spewing hate speech according to them. This kind of tactic has become very prevalent, media organizations love to use it to push their agendas for example.

Yeah, so much so that a spokesperson for the party in power in the US instantly jumped in to defend this behavior. Also, I don't know what you think "hate speech" is if antisemitism doesn't cut it for you.

[SolarNova]

Just now, Sauron said:

Yeah, so much so that a spokesperson for the party in power in the US instantly jumped in to defend this behavior. Also, I don't know what you think "hate speech" is if antisemitism doesn't cut it for you.

I wasn't saying it wasn't,

[ThePD]

Hate Speech is a term that is thrown around so much it has lost meaning just like the term Nazi. I have seen many people who claim to be anti-racist that do things that are inherently racist, like pick people by skin color/nationality just for the sake of appearing 'diverse'. That doesn't solve the issue but inherently perpetuates the problem. As soon as you see people as a color/nationality instead of a human, you have continued the race bullshit. News stations love including race/sex into headlines so they can generate anger and rage. More clicks = more money. 

[Tech_Dreamer]

i think the move to close down the chat as a whole was a better move than individually monitor & regulate , it was a very good move imo,  it's pointless to negotiate with trolls let alone regulate what people say.

[hobobobo]

2 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

I wasn't saying it wasn't,

You just conceded an important point. Antisemitism is an umbrella term, and, honestly, lost its original meaning long ago and is pretty much same as hatespeech at this point, in the sense that its also being used as a good tool to curb discent. Have you ever heard a proverb, common amoung russian-speaking jews, "only a jew can be a true antisemite"? take it as you will, but i find it funny.

 

6 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Yeah, so much so that a spokesperson for the party in power in the US instantly jumped in to defend this behavior. Also, I don't know what you think "hate speech" is if antisemitism doesn't cut it for you.

Throughout your whole point beams one central idea - words speak louder then actions

[ThePD]

Just now, Tech_Dreamer said:

i think the move to close down the chat as a whole was a better move than individually monitor & regulate , it was a very good move imo,  it's pointless to negotiate with trolls let alone regulate what people say.

The problem with shutting down the chat is now you can no longer hold people accountable for the things they said. Free Speech is your ability to say what you want, but it does not protect you from the consequences of what you say. By suppressing the whole chat, racism wasn't defeated. It's actually worse because those people then feel targeted and then those individuals increase the trolling elsewhere. 

[Sauron]

19 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

Throughout your whole point beams one central idea - words speak louder then actions

No, words are actions in some situations.

[Tech_Dreamer]

10 minutes ago, ThePD said:

The problem with shutting down the chat is now you can no longer hold people accountable for the things they said. Free Speech is your ability to say what you want, but it does not protect you from the consequences of what you say. By suppressing the whole chat, racism wasn't defeated. It's actually worse because those people then feel targeted and then those individuals increase the trolling elsewhere. 

i agree , but this a spot where both sides are acting unreasonable, you know the "i'm more right than you" kinda childish verbal game where intent is to hurt through words , when both teams are playing foul, you disqualify all. you don't award the ones doing less foul play.

 

  plus this is just a chat in a real sense, so blocking is more sensible, like really , most of the time people would laugh their ass off like it's a roast event going through these chat transcript , imo a huge set of troll mixed in with minor real stuff,  i believe no one couldn't care less in reality over a chat troll , except those excessive drama people who want it clean like a church floor , you don't know if anythings real or not.  but it does cross over to a point where it's a bit too offensive . so an open unmoderated would become lets say too nasty . so setting a standard is reasonable.

[matrix07012]

Oh no, somebody said something mean ON THE INTERNET! THE HORROR!

[hobobobo]

24 minutes ago, Sauron said:

No, words are actions in some situations.

I honestly struggle to imagine the situation, even in the more or less extreme case i can imagine, where the speech is used to plan and incite concrete acts of violence and even then, thats still just words, and actions, if they come, come later, in the slim chance where the plot was not prevented by the authorities. You cant change people by policing them. Even if i was to take online hate speech seriously, i would never see it as a problem in itself, its just a symptom of society which developed capabilities surpassing its cognitive control of animalistic instincts.

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, hobobobo said:

I honestly struggle to imagine the situation, even in the more or less extreme case i can imagine, where the speech is used to plan and incite concrete acts of violence and even then, thats still just words, and actions, if they come, come later, in the slim chance where the plot was not prevented by the authorities.

Bullying does not need to be physical to cause serious harm. I consider that an action, even if it's "just words". Racism is actually illegal in many countries, be it through words or actions. You can't go around demeaning people for their skin color in a civilized country. Doing it on the internet is no better.

5 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

You cant change people by policing them.

It's not about changing them. Some people can't be changed. It's enough to kick them out of civilized interactions.

6 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

Even if i was to take online hate speech seriously, i would never see it as a problem in itself, its just a symptom of society which developed capabilities surpassing its cognitive control of animalistic instincts.

Racism isn't a natural instinct - most ancient civilizations and most non western societies don't have this problem nearly as much - and whichever way you twist it, it's a problem regardless of the cause. Active racists don't deserve a place in society, period. Even if there is a "sickness" that caused the "symptom", limiting the symptoms is usually the first priority in any medical intervention.

[Guest]

Great work by YouTube. Hopefully this is the first step of many. Doing more than FaceBook already. Well done.