Always on Anti-Cheat, worst than always on DRM?

[suicidalfranco]

source: 

Riot's upcomming team based shooter with hero elements has been found, discovered and confirmed to implement an always on anti-cheat system.

the anticheat system starts when the machine boots-up, and has the same rights as an administrator

Quote

the big issue here is it running even when players don't have the game open, from startup no less. EDIT - It runs at Ring 0 of the Windows Kernel which means it always has the same rights as administrator from the moment you boot.

 

Since this is running at with high privileges and cannot be directly turned off. It can always monitor and really do whatever it wants on your system.

Someone could find a security vulnerability and turn this into a rootkit.

It's already reported to have bugs that negatively impact to other games.

 

so yeah, good things coming ahead of us. Of course the only way to stop this is to not install the game, but given the gamer mentality and ability to use an ounce of their grey matter to take a stand against such obviously negative practices. RIP everyone, expect this to come to LoL soon TM

[Mateyyy]

Wasn't particularly interested in this Overwatch/CS:GO hybrid thingy but this made me lose any sort of curiosity in trying it out lol. Good to know

[Sauron]

DRM and this kind of anti-cheat are basically the same thing. The publisher wants full control on how you play the game, including the system you play it on.

23 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

Of course the only way to stop this is to not install the game, but given the gamer mentality and ability to use an ounce of their grey matter to take a stand against such obviously negative practices.

No, it should be regulated against. If Riot shot the customer upon installing the game would you blame the customer?

[leadeater]

10 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

yay sanctioned malware ( -_(\

Wonder what Microsoft has to say on it considering it violates all their guidelines, not that they would comment on it but would be nice. Would be even more nice for a Windows security patch to come out that blocks it, a big "Yea, no you don't".

[suicidalfranco]

6 minutes ago, Sauron said:

DRM and this kind of anti-cheat are basically the same thing. The publisher wants full control on how you play the game, including the system you play it on.

No, it should be regulated against. If Riot shot the customer upon installing the game would you blame the customer?

im going to go on past experiences and say that this

still holds true to this day when talking about the general gamer

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, Sauron said:

DRM and this kind of anti-cheat are basically the same thing. The publisher wants full control on how you play the game, including the system you play it on.

No, it should be regulated against. If Riot shot the customer upon installing the game would you blame the customer?

while we are creating these regulations we could criminalize cheating in games.

 

 

As much as I don't like it, regulating what a company can and can't sell when it doesn't leverage a monopoly or interfere with freedom of association is wrong. 

 

As much as it won't work because majority of computer game players are weak minded, weak willed sheep, the best hope of changing any of these game developer products is through not buying the shit products.   

[captain_to_fire]

21 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

yay sanctioned malware ( -_(\

[Sauron]

Just now, suicidalfranco said:

im going to go on past experiences and say that this

 

Spoiler

 

still holds true to this day when talking about the general gamer

Which further goes to show that boycotts don't work and regulation is the only path forward.

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Wonder what Microsoft has to say on it considering it violates all their guidelines, not that they would comment on it but would be nice. Would be even more nice for a Windows security patch to come out that blocks it, a big "Yea, no you don't".

Knowing MS it's more likely to be a "no, you don't unless you pay us for the privilege"

Just now, mr moose said:

while we are creating these regulations we could criminalize cheating in games.

I would disagree that cheating in a game with no stakes is bad enough to warrant criminalization.

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

As much as I don't like it, regulating what a company can and can't sell when it doesn't leverage a monopoly or interfere with freedom of association is wrong. 

I strongly disagree with that. What, should they just be allowed to do whatever so long as they're not a monopoly? Should pharmaceutical companies be able to dilute their drugs with poison just because it's more profitable and they don't have a monopoly? What happens when all companies that share the market do the same because there's nothing stopping them? Also, why is having a monopoly the point where we suddenly draw the line? Either it's fine to regulate, in which case the question becomes by how much we should regulate, or it's not fine and anything goes. I'll take the former.

 

Not to mention copyright pretty much gives Riot a monopoly on their IPs. If you want to play league of legends you don't have a choice on who you get it from.

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

As much as it won't work because majority of computer game players are weak minded, weak willed sheep, the best hope of changing any of these game developer products is through not buying the shit products.   

What about taking the path that definitely 100% works and has proven itself effective time and time again at protecting customers from anti-consumer behavior?

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

Knowing MS it's more likely to be a "no, you don't unless you pay us for the privilege"

Kernel mode drivers like that are a big no now for Microsoft, support for it is going to be dropped. Problem is you can still create them and install them.

[suicidalfranco]

2 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Which further goes to show that boycotts don't work and regulation is the only path forward.

 

3 minutes ago, Sauron said:

What about taking the path that definitely 100% works and has proven itself effective time and time again at protecting customers from anti-consumer behavior?

i'd be be oposed on regulations and lean more towards just boycotting the game. But since the later can't be achieved due to the collective idiocy of the target demographic, i say let the idiots be damned and open the gate for the next release of Darwin awards

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

I would disagree that cheating in a game with no stakes is bad enough to warrant criminalization.

Was highlighting the gravity of the claim for regulation.

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

I strongly disagree with that. What, should they just be allowed to do whatever so long as they're not a monopoly? Should pharmaceutical companies be able to dilute their drugs with poison just because it's more profitable and they don't have a monopoly?

 

That's not even comparable, you are trying to compare a medical product people not only consume but have no way to understand to a piece of optional software that we already know what it does.   If someone wants to write  a piece of software that randomly deletes files from your hard drive and tells you exactly what it does what right do you have to demand they can't?  they aren't tying it to an essential service and they aren't playing with the health of people for profit.  

 

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

What happens when all companies that share the market do the same because there's nothing stopping them? Also, why is having a monopoly the point where we suddenly draw the line? Either it's fine to regulate, in which case the question becomes by how much we should regulate, or it's not fine and anything goes. I'll take the former.

 

Not to mention copyright pretty much gives Riot a monopoly on their IPs. If you want to play league of legends you don't have a choice on who you get it from.

Why should anything stop them. regulation is to prevent companies taking advantage of consumers, not to dictate what non essential and completely optional products they can sell.

 

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

What about taking the path that definitely 100% works and has proven itself effective time and time again at protecting customers from anti-consumer behavior?

 

Because it's not ethical, you can't just decide a product should be regulated because you don't like it.  If you don't like it  don't buy it. 

[GreyestGoat]

It would be a good thing actually since cheating on PC is out of hand.

[jasonvp]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Because it's not ethical, you can't just decide a product should be regulated because you don't like it.  If you don't like it  don't buy it. 

I think the world has ended.  I'm agreeing with mr. moose on something.

 

Don't like it?  Don't buy it.  Simple, easy, done.  Legislating ethics and morality on this scale is decidedly the wrong response.  Speak with your wallets.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, jasonvp said:

I think the world has ended.  I'm agreeing with mr. moose on something.

 

Don't like it?  Don't buy it.  Simple, easy, done.  Legislating ethics and morality on this scale is decidedly the wrong response.  Speak with your wallets.

We all agree on many things,  we just don't always end up in the same threads to see them, or have the topic big enough to warrant making a note of it.

[suicidalfranco]

4 minutes ago, GreyestGoat said:

It would be a good thing actually since cheating on PC is out of hand.

it's not and most cheating accusation come from those who simply can't accept that some people are simply that good.

 

NINJA EDIT

[DarthEoin]

I love the way this is how you hack a console. Imagine if this was on console there would be a massive lawsuit over it when it would be Used hack the Console 

[jasonvp]

Just now, suicidalfranco said:

it's not and cheating accusation come from those who simply can't accept that some people are simply that good.

So you're one of the cheaters.  Got it.

 

The cheating epidemic is out of hand, across the board.  Burying your head in the sand and saying, "Git gud!" is either A)ignorant, or B)a sign you're one of the cheaters.  There are whole businesses that are thriving selling cheats to and for all sorts of online multiplayer games.

 

I know who good players are.  I used to compete professionally, likely long before you even knew what a computer or the Internet was.  I can accept when someone is just better than me; and in my old age that number gets higher and higher.  But I can also pretty easily spot when someone's cheating.

[leadeater]

Just now, suicidalfranco said:

it's not and cheating accusation come from those who simply can't accept that some people are simply that good.

People using cheat tools isn't really that uncommon, the problem isn't that most or a majority are it's that it only take one and doing it to the extreme to ruin that game session. It's not as bad as back in the day mind you but also anti cheat tools just didn't really exist or work. If you played any of the classic Medal of Honor games online you should know how bad it was; Aimbot, no reload, rate of fire disabled, shoot through objects. Literally just takes one person to join your server and everyone dies in a few seconds and stays dead till  you or they leave, usually you.

 

Lived through the worst of it, it was pretty fucking bad.

[GreyestGoat]

8 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

it's not and most cheating accusation come from those who simply can't accept that some people are simply that good.

 

NINJA EDIT

Ughh no that is a factual bias of your own. Play any popular enough game where rank is involved or having anything that bolsters the ego at all or anything to gain such as items that can be sold for money, watch how many people cheat.

[MageTank]

Just now, leadeater said:

People using cheat tools isn't really that uncommon, the problem isn't that most or a majority are it's that it only take one and doing it to the extreme to ruin that game session. It's not as bad as back in the day mind you but also anti cheat tools just didn't really exist or work. If you played any of the classic Medal of Honor games online you should know how bad it was; Aimbot, no reload, rate of fire disabled, shoot through objects. Literally just takes one person to join your server and everyone dies in a few seconds and stays dead till  you or they leave, usually you.

 

Lived through the worst of it, it was pretty fucking bad.

With MOH, you didn't even need third party tools to cheat. There were so many people exploiting ladder sharking that a ton of dedicated servers avoided maps with ladders, or restricted jumping near the spaces around ladders. People will do anything and everything for an advantage in gaming. 

[suicidalfranco]

Just now, jasonvp said:

So you're one of the cheaters.  Got it.

 

The cheating epidemic is out of hand, across the board.  Burying your head in the sand and saying, "Git gud!" is either A)ignorant, or B)a sign you're one of the cheaters.  There are whole businesses that are thriving selling cheats to and for all sorts of online multiplayer games.

 

I know who good players are.  I used to compete professionally, likely long before you even knew what a computer or the Internet was.  I can accept when someone is just better than me; and in my old age that number gets higher and higher.  But I can also pretty easily spot when someone's cheating.

no i'm one of those who get rekt but instead of complaining, just play the game and tries to get better.

I only play once or twice per weekend expecting to be as good as a no life who easilly stays up all night one game after another is ludicrous

It's not and current anti-cheat systems already provide good results at sniffing them out given that the vast majority of cheaters are just kids buying the latest cheat tool without even knowing how it works.

[GreyestGoat]

1 minute ago, suicidalfranco said:

no i'm one of those who get rekt but instead of complaining, just play the game and tries to get better.

I only play once or twice per weekend expecting to be as good as a no life who easilly stays up all night one game after another is ludicrous

It's not and current anti-cheat systems already provide good results at sniffing them out given that the vast majority of cheaters are just kids buying the latest cheat tool without even knowing how it works.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cheating+is+out+of+control+pc

[suicidalfranco]

4 minutes ago, GreyestGoat said:

Ughh no that is a factual bias of your own. Play any popular enough game where rank is involved or having anything that bolsters the ego at all or anything to gain such as items that can be sold for money, watch how many people cheat.

played PUBG, playing Warzone, played OW, played Destiny2. 

The probability of encoutering someone cheating are so slim it's a none issue, and shouldn't require an anticheat of this level compared to already present, acceptable solutions. 

[jasonvp]

1 minute ago, suicidalfranco said:

It's not and current anti-cheat systems already provide good results at sniffing them out given that the vast majority of cheaters are just kids buying the latest cheat tool without even knowing how it works.

So it's ignorance then.  Ignorance meaning: not knowing something.  I'm not using that in a pejorative manner either.  There are things you need to learn.  Play more often and you'll understand what we're trying to say.  And learn to spot the difference between very good players, and players who are using downloaded skill.  You've likely been killed by plenty of the latter and just don't realize it because you don't recognize it.

 

The current cheat/anti-cheat arms war is as energetic as it's ever been.  A good number of the "crap" cheats get caught by the anti-cheat software out there.  But a great many go under the RADAR, and folks use those cheats to ruin the gaming experience of others.

 

It's just something you haven't recognized (yet?)

[GreyestGoat]

2 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

played PUBG, playing Warzone, played OW, played Destiny2. 

The probability of encoutering someone cheating are so slim it's a none issue, and shouldn't require an anticheat of this level compared to already present, acceptable solutions. 

 

 

Play anything at a high enough level and they become easy to spot.