Europe Parliament accelerating transition to Electric Cars

[LinusTech]

Plug-in hybrid is the way to go for now, imo. 

 

Its such a great compromise. I enjoy the range and quick-fill of ice, but haven’t filled my tank yet since I bought it!

[jagdtigger]

21 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

-no real benefit in using an EV

No benefits, EXCEPT 

health

cost savings

environment

heat

less maintenance

greater longevity

noise reduction

not smelly

better all around....

No benefits, EXCEPT 

health

Then do not use anything that burns stuff to heat your house, actually this is bigger polluter than all of the IC cars.

 

cost savings

Because for EV's the electricity,the oil and other lubricants, and spare parts are for free. Get real.

 

environment

Look it up how much more pollution is created when manufacturing a EV, not to mention the battery part.

 

heat

EV's generate heat too, not only while running but whyle charging too.

 

less maintenance

Nope, you still need to change the oil and other lubricants and the moving parts periodically, or do you think it magically comes wit sealed up bearing that will last forever?

 

greater longevity

Except for the most expensive part, the battery which has a replacing cost that maintaining an IC looks like dirt cheap.

 

noise reduction

IC cars have almost no noise, actually the tires are more louder than the engine XD .

 

not smelly

Well never heard anyone complaining about it, plus its highly dependent on the person so its moot to bring it up as a universal pro.

 

better all around....

Short range, long charging, crazy expensive to buy. Pretty much busted.

21 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

not needed for 90% of people, but will happen over time as they get more popular

Ppl wont buy an EV then rent an IC just because some file worm says so. So yes, its pretty much a most if EV's want to replace IC cars.

 

21 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

not really important given ice range far exceeds standard use

see above

 

21 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

not really, they last quite a while currently, and will only get better over time

No trustworthy third party statistics about it, just from manufacturers and we all know how trustworthy those spec sheets are(not at all).

 

21 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

simply not true, there's several options in the 20k range

Which has an even shorter range. As i said ppl wont maintain 2 cars or waste money on rental, its just not worth it financially.

 

21 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

gas and maintenance that is not present in an all electric. 

From above:

"Nope, you still need to change the oil and other lubricants and the moving parts periodically, or do you think it magically comes wit sealed up bearing that will last forever?"

"Because for EV's the electricity,the oil and other lubricants, and spare parts are for free. Get real."

 

This pretty much ends your theory about the non-existent benefits of EV's.

 

@LinusTech

Until ~5 years later when you loose a bit of hair from hearing how much the battery replacement will cost you .

Edited October 6, 2018 by jagdtigger

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

Where do you get the idea that the longevity of the batteries is still short?  Zero is giving a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty on the batteries in their motorcycles.  If the capacity drops to less than 75% of the original capacity within that period, they'll replace it for free.  They also state that the battery pack will typically last around 450k miles before dropping to less than that 75% capacity, that's longer than most IC engines last.

Similar story with Tesla, they are giving 8 years with unlimited mileage on the model S and X, 8 years with 100k miles on the model 3.  Considering that the original warranty on the model S was 100k too, I wouldn't be surprised to see the mileage limit on the model 3 to be dropped sometime in the future.

[Donut417]

24 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

noise reduction

 

Not for long. US Gov wants car makers to make these cars have noise so people who dont fucking pay attention when crossing the street dont get ran the fuck over. Ford is trying to get an exception for police cars. 

[jagdtigger]

3 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

Where do you get the idea that the longevity of the batteries is still short?

Just look up any characteristics curve on Li batteries that shows the charge cycles  vs capacity at different discharge/charge rates and you will understand.

[Jtalk4456]

31 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

No benefits, EXCEPT 

health

Then do not use anything that burns stuff to heat your house, actually this is bigger polluter than all of the IC cars.

I don't, I use electricity

31 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

cost savings

Because for EV's the electricity,the oil and other lubricants, and spare parts are for free. Get real.

Didn't say there was no maintenance, but the cost savings from all the maintenance you don't have to do with a ev is significant. ice cars require a great deal of expensive maintenance. ev's have a very few things to maintain, hence the cost savings.

31 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

environment

Look it up how much more pollution is created when manufacturing a EV, not to mention the battery part.

I went to college for this, so i've seen all the numbers and done all the research. the pollution to make a battery is far less than the pollution to burn gas. Also the battery is reusable, the gas is one time use.

31 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

heat

EV's generate heat too, not only while running but whyle charging too.

Not nearly as much as an engine that literally relies upon controlled explosions

31 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

less maintenance

Nope, you still need to change the oil and other lubricants and the moving parts periodically, or do you think it magically comes wit sealed up bearing that will last forever?

"less" maintenance doesn't mean "no" maintenance

31 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

greater longevity

Except for the most expensive part, the battery which has a replacing cost that maintaining an IC looks like dirt cheap.

It doesn't make an ice look dirt cheap, and furthermore many ev batteries last 10 years or more, which is longer than many people own ICE cars before buying new ones. I spend $80/month in gas, so over 10 years of not buying gas, that would be a savings of nearly $10,000, enough to buy 5 replacement batteries

31 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

noise reduction

IC cars have almost no noise, actually the tires are more louder than the engine XD .

You should get your hearing checked. Cars are so noisy there's an entire crew of people whose sole job it is to build sound barriers on the side of highways when there are residential areas nearby

31 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

not smelly

Well never heard anyone complaining about it, plus its highly dependent on the person so its moot to bring it up as a universal pro.

No it's not highly dependent, gasoline has a very strong distinctive smell. ice's are objectively smelly, and I've heard people complain all the time about the gas smell in their car right after filling up. it's literally chemical fumes filling the car which is unhealthy and smelly

31 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

better all around....

Short range, long charging, crazy expensive to buy. Pretty much busted.

Ppl wont buy an EV then rent an IC just because some file worm says so. So yes, its pretty much a most if EV's want to replace IC cars.

As I said, the average person has no need to rent an ice. the average person does not drive past the range of even a low range ev in a day. And they don't have short range, nor are they crazy expensive, and the long charging is irrelevant if you plug it in at work or home where it's going to stay parked for hours at a time. You're trying to judge the usability of ev's based on factors a ice needs. Your perspective is off. EV's are a paradigm shift from the way we currently use cars, you can't keep comparing factors like they are the same thing

31 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

No trustworthy third party statistics about it, just from manufacturers and we all know how trustworthy those spec sheets are(not at all).

You're right we should trust user experience. I know a few people who have had them for 10 or more years with no problems. Replacements are cheaper than you make them out to be. you can get re certified for 800-1000 and new for 2000 or so.

31 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Which has an even shorter range. As i said ppl wont maintain 2 cars or waste money on rental, its just not worth it financially.

See the paradigm shift above. Also for financially, you should consider that the person who suggested renting an ice for long trips didn't mean maintaining a lease. They meant renting a car for the week of the family vacation, then using the ev the rest of the year. the way you're wording it seems to imply you think it will be a constant backup car being paid for but rarely used, which would be financially stupid. 

31 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

 

@LinusTech

Until ~5 years later when you loose a bit of hair from hearing how much the battery replacement will cost you .

a measly 2000 new? if he's losing hair over that, he needs to learn some stress management, cuz he can afford that with no problem

[Jtalk4456]

1 hour ago, TopHatProductions115 said:

A better electric grid, with only 25% of power produced by combustion of fossil fuels, 30% produced via combustion of cleaner bio-fuels/natural gas/ethanol-based substances, 10% through renewables like solar and wind, 20% produced via nuclear and other exotic methods, 15% through hydroelectric and other dependable alternatives (as long as we don't alter the landscape too much). That would be the best place to start. Once the energy portfolio has been diversified enough and the grid has been revamped, then we could start some real work. Then, we'l need better power storing technologies (super capacitors, jelly batteries, graphene/silicene etc.). When those two things come around, the cost of having EVs for everyone should drop significantly. But maybe I'm not on the right path?

just saying from college classes of lectures, the viability of biofuels as anything more than a novelty power production really doesn't work. Ethanol in particular almost costs more energy to make than it produces. Some biofuels can basically be recycling in the industrial system, but it'll never hit 30% of our energy. I'd be surprised if it made it much past 10%

[TopHatProductions115]

@Jtalk4456 Perhaps 30% traditional combustion (fossil fuels), 20% renewables, 25% through exotic methods, and 10% via combustion of cleaner fuels?

[Jtalk4456]

1 minute ago, TopHatProductions115 said:

@Jtalk4456 Perhaps 30% traditional combustion (fossil fuels), 20% renewables, 25% through exotic methods, and 10% via combustion of cleaner fuels?

hopefully we can do far better at removing fossil fuels than that. Unless you're including nuclear in that category. Also what are exotic methods...?

[Egg-Roll]

5 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

Plug-in hybrid is the way to go for now, imo. 

 

Its such a great compromise. I enjoy the range and quick-fill of ice, but haven’t filled my tank yet since I bought it!

But that's because you sat down and did the math. You could have gone with a EV (bolt, tesla, etc) but due to business reasons (and current availability, which is quickly changing) it was a logical choice to buy a hybrid, however you are the 1% that need it for possibly daily needs.

 

Btw a review video would be nice

 

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

-built out charger network: non-existent

-better range than IC: nope

-longevity of batteries still short

-expensive AF

-no real benefit in using an EV

 

Yeah, definitely ready for mainstream.... /s

Take a look at Tesla's charging network, even your country has 2 (likely more to come), this is only one company and not individual companies or governments (thank you Obama).

Tesla is bringing out 2 new models of vehicles one a truck the other a roadster both with 1000 mile range. Granted both will be far too expensive at first for everyone but look at their business model in the past: Roadster ok range > S great range > X Almost great range > 3 best value for range > Roadster/Semi > ???

Wrong... all wrong most model S vehicles report around 90% still including the oldest ones.

Not really, you are looking at Tesla, like I said there are options including the under $30k Smart car

No real benefit except what has already been mentioned...

 

7 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Then do not use anything that burns stuff to heat your house, actually this is bigger polluter than all of the IC cars.

 

My gas stove puts less crap in the air than a ICE engine, hell when my furnace kicks on and I leave it on say all day for 24 hours it is cleaner than a ICE vehicle driving to Toronto and back...

 

8 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Because for EV's the electricity,the oil and other lubricants, and spare parts are for free. Get real.

umm... EVs have no oil like normal cars, grease maybe but when was the last time you heard about someone greasing a Tesla... Spare parts are like everything else. Get real.

 

15 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Look it up how much more pollution is created when manufacturing a EV, not to mention the battery part.

You'd find that the only part that produces more pollutants is actually the battery pack however it quickly becomes cleaner after running it for a year even if you run off of coal...

 

20 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

EV's generate heat too, not only while running but whyle charging too.

A ICE vehicle loses 70% of its power potential threw heat. You can touch a lithium battery while charging or in operation, you however should not touch a ICE vehicle while it is on or shortly after it being on. Why do you think snow melts off your hood faster than anywhere else? So on a heat perspective electrics win.

 

23 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Nope, you still need to change the oil and other lubricants and the moving parts periodically, or do you think it magically comes wit sealed up bearing that will last forever?

Where are you getting this information from? A hybrids owners manual perhaps? Obviously bearings fail but once again when was the last time you heard a vast majority of people saying we have to replace bearings? The only thing you need to really worry about on a EV are break pads and tires.

 

25 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Except for the most expensive part, the battery which has a replacing cost that maintaining an IC looks like dirt cheap.

Source? Obviously batteries are not cheap, but where are your sources that a car will not rust or become obsolete before the battery needs to be replaced? Or have you been watching the Documentary Who Killed the Electric Car and used the nearly 15+ year old info as todays facts? Or perhaps like the whole GoPro/phone nonsense you are you basing it off of tiny batteries on large draw units?

 

29 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

IC cars have almost no noise, actually the tires are more louder than the engine XD .

Depends on the model, the car in my driveway was dead quite, till it got sat on by a Lincoln and its hood insulation got chard up. Now its the nosiest vehicle next to the V8 trucks around me. That and the car is aging, as ICE vehicles age more things happen (including all the years of weather against the insulation mostly moisture), the engine can become louder, and just because you sell the car before that doesn't mean that car stays quite forever.

 

33 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Well never heard anyone complaining about it, plus its highly dependent on the person so its moot to bring it up as a universal pro.

People don't complain about things they think they have no control over. I personally don't mind the smell but I don't like being around it for extended periods of time either.

 

34 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Short range, long charging, crazy expensive to buy. Pretty much busted.

Wrong, model depending wrong, wrong (stop looking at Tesla).

 

35 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

No trustworthy third party statistics about it, just from manufacturers and we all know how trustworthy those spec sheets are(not at all).

Yea, no trust worthy sources EXCEPT the actual owners.... You know the people who you think are stupid in owning one? Yea those fools who record a insanely high amount of mileage then report really low battery loss...

 

42 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Which has an even shorter range. As i said ppl wont maintain 2 cars or waste money on rental, its just not worth it financially.

It's call sit down do the math of daily driving, the cost of a years worth of driving in a ICE vehicle (including ALL maintenance) vs a Hybrid vs EV... Most people would find it would be cheaper to either own a high enough range Hybrid (like Linus), or down right go EV and rent a car for those rare 1 or 2 times a year for those 300km+ trips.

 

But I guess that's too much work for the average person... What's that? I hear GMC calling for you... You know one of the main companies that initially helped kill off the EV's the same company who put the Volt out as a joke claiming it as a EV? Yea, go to them and call them your master, up until they need another bailout in 10 years time...

 

42 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Just look up any characteristics curve on Li batteries that shows the charge cycles  vs capacity at different discharge/charge rates and you will understand.

Yup, you must be looking at phones... Since that is what most of that data is based off of... If laptops acted like phones no one would buy a laptop because the battery life would suck in such a short time (imagine replacing a laptop battery inside of a year). Also by now thousands of Tesla owners would be writing up reviews stating how they had to spend 20K on a new battery pack for a 3-5 year old car... Whats that? Those don't exist in the masses required?(i'm sure you will find one or 2 but those are likely covered under warranty less what was used, LIKE ANY CAR!) What a shocker...

 

59 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Until ~5 years later when you loose a bit of hair from hearing how much the battery replacement will cost you .

ummm lets see 5 years driving back and forth to work never touching gas 5 days a week 50 weeks a year (due to holidays etc)

Based on the video below using your 5 years that means Linus would have driven at least (assuming a always 30% reduction) 50,000 KM Never once touching his ICE part of the vehicle. Reality is Linus stated its something like 10 years the car is 1 year old which means he could have upwards to 8-9 years or 80-90K of battery life which for the price he paid for it (31,000) is a very good deal on such a car.

 

46 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Not for long. US Gov wants car makers to make these cars have noise so people who dont fucking pay attention when crossing the street dont get ran the fuck over. Ford is trying to get an exception for police cars. 

That depends who has the right of way, I shouldn't have to worry about the asshat not looking right to turn right as I'm about to cross with a signal stating I can legally... Sadly I do, and making a noise for my useless benefit isn't going to prevent that fool from hitting me, a better law would be forcing a censor that can tell the driver with the worlds most annoying buzzer after letting off the brake and a person in front of them within 3-6 feet....

[kokakolia]

IMHO, the cost savings argument of EVs is moot. 

 

- 20k isn’t affordable unless you’re willing to finance the vehicle and put yourself in financial ruin

- You can buy a decent reliable ICE vehicle for 5k that gets 8~9L/100km easily. Think Mazda 3, Hyundai Elantra/Accent etc...

- The battery on EVs is the terrifying thing. Batteries degrade rapidly overtime. After 6 years your battery could be dead. And EV batteries ain’t cheap. I am thinking 10k. But it could be less, I am just guessing. 

- If petrol stations are offering charging stations you can bet that they will jack up the prices of car electricity.

- You will have to factor in the cost of the charging station in the vehicle. That could be thousands of dollars.

 

I am just worried to death about EV batteries. It is in the car makers best interest that these batteries suck, because planned obsolescence leads to more car sales. But that’s just me being an overly cynical conspiracy theorist.

[mr moose]

9 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Did you had to pay a small fortune for it? Because last i spoke with someone who wanted 3 phase said it would cost something like 1500€ or so....

Nope, I didn't get 3 phase, I opted for a second single phase. It probably is the same phase that feeds my house.   It cost $450 including power board with 2 separate RCD's and CB.

2 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

 

@LinusTech

Until ~5 years later when you loose a bit of hair from hearing how much the battery replacement will cost you .

I think the savings from not having to replace air filters spark plugs, timing belt and reduced ICE service interval will cover half the cost of that.

[Egg-Roll]

1 hour ago, kokakolia said:

IMHO, the cost savings argument of EVs is moot. 

 

- 20k isn’t affordable unless you’re willing to finance the vehicle and put yourself in financial ruin

- You can buy a decent reliable ICE vehicle for 5k that gets 8~9L/100km easily. Think Mazda 3, Hyundai Elantra/Accent etc...

- The battery on EVs is the terrifying thing. Batteries degrade rapidly overtime. After 6 years your battery could be dead. And EV batteries ain’t cheap. I am thinking 10k. But it could be less, I am just guessing. 

- If petrol stations are offering charging stations you can bet that they will jack up the prices of car electricity.

- You will have to factor in the cost of the charging station in the vehicle. That could be thousands of dollars.

 

I am just worried to death about EV batteries. It is in the car makers best interest that these batteries suck, because planned obsolescence leads to more car sales. But that’s just me being an overly cynical conspiracy theorist.

-Not many people can buy vehicles outright nowadays, so that is meaningless argument. And is why I keep stating the type of car is dependent on what one can actually afford.

-Sure you can get a decent one with jaw dropping specs. Reality is what year, mileage, the maintenance history, upcoming maintenance, realistic fuel consumption (this can be found on sites threw out the web) and the unknown expenses. However if the only thing you can actually afford is said 5K car you REAL REAL REAL shouldn't be driving...

-They do not. In phones yes, but as Tesla has shown if done right batteries last a long time, sometimes possibly even more than the car it self. 6 years and the battery could be dead eh? Sure and you could go out and buy a $5,000 and poor in $10,000 in repairs over 3 years  If fear is holding back because of all the unknowns think of it like this, tomorrow you could be hit by a asteroid and die from that. Your new ICE car that you just spent $50,000 on could literally blow up the second you leave the dealership slowly cooking you alive. Or maybe you buy a electric vehicle made by GMC who deliberately started sabotaging said vehicles to cause thermal runaway and got cooked that way...

-They just might, but due to the vast amount of already available charging stations out there they can't unless they offer far faster charging units than available, which is unlikely.

-That depends, are you referring to at home? If so, do you really need that 4 hour charging option costing thousands of dollars? Or do you need a 8-12 hour trickle charge that can be gotten for $1000 or less?

 

Nope, quite the opposite. Tesla has every interest to make the best battery pack for the price (this has been stated and proven), mainly due to being a new company, secondary to the price they charge for the cars. Due to this factor it actually forces companies like GM, Ford, Nissan etc to all stop screwing around (AKA Volt, orig Leaf) and actually produce decent products. If you go out buy the $35,000 EV from "insert brand here" and after 5 years you need to spend another $15-20k on it(which if you go with 60 months it's 5 years), would you? Or would you then go out and get a 7-10 year loan for a shiny new $80,000 Model S that has a track record of having a long ass battery life? Some will go for the $20,000 because it is cheaper, but if it was me I would go with the company with a product whose battery would be guaranteed to last at least the time of the loan.

 

Ultimately it comes down to individual users preference, and mainly REALISTIC requirements, imo no one should be buying ICE only anymore. Esp brand new.

[leadeater]

5 hours ago, Jtalk4456 said:

-better range than IC

not really important given ice range far exceeds standard use

The concept of filling up every day is just a completely foreign to most people, but if I had petrol on tap at home then yea I'd fill it up almost every day because why would you not want a full tank just in case. Cars need large fuel tanks and long range not because we drive far but because of the inconvenience of having to fill up at all, yes it's fast but still not convenient. If every car had to fill up every day there is no way the current density and availability of petrol stations could cope with that kind of demand. 

[Froody129]

Everyone is worried about vehicle emissions but factory farming is having a greater impact on the environment (and far from just global warming). It's a gigantic issue and for some reason the politicians always seem to ignore it. It's a lot easier to live without steaks than without cars 

[leadeater]

30 minutes ago, Froody129 said:

It's a lot easier to live without steaks than without cars 

I dispute that, mmm steak .

 

[jagdtigger]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

I dispute that, mmm steak .

 

Better yet:

 

 

10 hours ago, mr moose said:

I think the savings from not having to replace air filters spark plugs, timing belt and reduced ICE service interval will cover half the cost of that.

I dont think it will be close to half. It also depends on how greedy is the local repair shop.... Plus even if you dont use the IC engine you still have to change the oil and filter every 2 year IIRC, not mention how bad it is for the IC engine that it isnt started for extended times. There are stuff in the oil so it wont flow down from parts in a short time, but in the long term it will. Then there is the issue with fuel, AFAIK its not a good idea to let fuel sit for extended periods of time in the tank. So yeah, you wont save that much on it.

Edited October 7, 2018 by jagdtigger

[mr moose]

14 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

 

 

 

I dont think it will be close to half. It also depends on how greedy is the local repair shop....

 

The average timing belt service is $600-700,  a regular oil change is $130 if you only have to do it once a year (as opposed to twice) then you have saved $1250 by the 5 year mark by choosing a hybrid.  And we haven't even looked at the fuel cost savings yet.

14 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Plus even if you dont use the IC engine you still have to change the oil and filter every 2 year IIRC, not mention how bad it is for the IC engine that it isnt started for extended times. There are stuff in the oil so it wont flow down from parts in a short time, but in the long term it will. Then there is the issue with fuel, AFAIK its not a good idea to let fuel sit for extended periods of time in the tank. So yeah, you wont save that much on it.

 

I wonder if the engineers at Mitsubishi, Toyota and Nissan et al have considered that....     Um yes.

[jagdtigger]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

Um yes.

They considered it but lets be honest, longevity isnt an important thing nowadays....

[mr moose]

Just want to leave this here for those who haven't seen it:

 

[benji_]

On 10/5/2018 at 9:44 PM, Egg-Roll said:

Once again false impressions that make the average person think electrics are incapable... The leaf assuming left at dead only takes 8 hours to charge, this means you get to work plug it in at days end you have a full car, even if you had to pay 25 cents per kw/h thats $10 from dead, reality is if you charge at home only and can get to work and back on one charge you are only paying the rate your house gets charged when you sleep (usually around 6 cents).

 

As for gas stations, it really depends on where you live. Today in Canada you could be waiting upwards to 10 minutes to just get the privilege to stand outside of your car to fill up and even that could take more than you "2 minutes" depending on the pump speed, also the 2 minute claim is complete BS, you whine about charge times from 0 but then say I'm going to compare it to a half a tank or possibly even a quarter empty? Not to mention you have to go inside (unless you use the unit outside) and wait there... 

i never said they are incapable, just boring and slow to charge. you dont have the control that you do in internal combustion. they are all auto afaik so its just foot-on-throttle and go.  good for the average person i guess but not for people who see cars more than just transport

 

well here in the uk weve got loads of petrol stations so that rarely happens. 2 mins was ofcourse an exaggeration but even 10 minutes. its alot quicker than 8 hours

 

 

[Mihle]

19 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Just look up any characteristics curve on Li batteries that shows the charge cycles  vs capacity at different discharge/charge rates and you will understand.

Look up numbers specifically on batteries in electric cars. Look up the warranty car makers have on the batteries.

[Jtalk4456]

14 hours ago, leadeater said:

The concept of filling up every day is just a completely foreign to most people, but if I had petrol on tap at home then yea I'd fill it up almost every day because why would you not want a full tank just in case. Cars need large fuel tanks and long range not because we drive far but because of the inconvenience of having to fill up at all, yes it's fast but still not convenient. If every car had to fill up every day there is no way the current density and availability of petrol stations could cope with that kind of demand. 

i see what you're saying, but I think just plugging it in when you get home is far more convenient than going to the gas station. I consider electrics more convenience with regards to filling up

 

17 hours ago, kokakolia said:

- The battery on EVs is the terrifying thing. Batteries degrade rapidly overtime. After 6 years your battery could be dead. And EV batteries ain’t cheap. I am thinking 10k. But it could be less, I am just guessing. 

first off they shouldn't die after just 6 yrs, most last 10 or more. Also they cost around 2000 new or less than a thousand for recertified, so your pricing is way off

[Mihle]

8 hours ago, Froody129 said:

Everyone is worried about vehicle emissions but factory farming is having a greater impact on the environment (and far from just global warming). It's a gigantic issue and for some reason the politicians always seem to ignore it. It's a lot easier to live without steaks than without cars 

In Norway, might not be the same worldwide, but transport in total (Cars, boats, buses, lorries and planes) produce something like 3-4x the pollution of what all agriculture does.
While industry is about 2-3x. (I bet industry especially is lower here than it would in other countries) Just looking at the air pollution tho.

[Mihle]

6 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Better yet:

 

Actually, for the environment when it comes emissions, pig is way better than what sheep/lamb or cows is. While chicken is better.
Like per kg of Beef you could get 2,2 KG pig meat or 3,9 kg chicken for the same emissions.