Europe Parliament accelerating transition to Electric Cars

[jagdtigger]

51 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

That shows how much you actually know about how cars work...

Apparently way more than you..... (im a car electrician)

EV's are still no good for anyone. That fact wont change just because you want it.

[Sakkura]

4 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Apparently way more than you..... (im a car electrician)

EV's are still no good for anyone. That fact wont change just because you want it.

They obviously work fine for a lot of people. Look at Norway.

[Egg-Roll]

4 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Apparently way more than you..... (im a car electrician)

EV's are still no good for anyone. That fact wont change just because you want it.

Once again incorrect, current EV's (plug-ins for the paranoid) are good for 99+% of people. It's just people refuse to change. That doesn't make them no good for people.

 

Also being a car electrician doesn't make you know more than me, unless you work for Tesla, then you should know all this already... I get it you want to preserve your job screwing people over with tiny $900 chips that cost $5 covered in lies. Reality is we need to change, find a new job.

[kokakolia]

34 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Once again incorrect, current EV's (plug-ins for the paranoid) are good for 99+% of people. It's just people refuse to change. That doesn't make them no good for people.

 

Also being a car electrician doesn't make you know more than me, unless you work for Tesla, then you should know all this already... I get it you want to preserve your job screwing people over with tiny $900 chips that cost $5 covered in lies. Reality is we need to change, find a new job.

People refusing to change is a huge generalization. Not everyone can afford a newer car. Not everyone should buy a newer car. Financing a vehicle is a huge burden. Don’t expect everyone to do that, because it is a very bad thing. 

 

I personally don’t believe in electric cars. Because cars are bad to begin with. They are dangerous, extremely costly to the point of ruining peoples lives financially and encourage poor urban design to accommodate for cars. 

 

We should focus on better public transit first. 

[Egg-Roll]

26 minutes ago, kokakolia said:

People refusing to change is a huge generalization. Not everyone can afford a newer car. Not everyone should buy a newer car. Financing a vehicle is a huge burden. Don’t expect everyone to do that, because it is a very bad thing. 

 

I personally don’t believe in electric cars. Because cars are bad to begin with. They are dangerous, extremely costly to the point of ruining peoples lives financially and encourage poor urban design to accommodate for cars. 

 

We should focus on better public transit first. 

Well the i3 is a prime example of a cheap fully electric(used), plus many hybrids are now available for good prices used(always get the batteries checked), so when it comes time for a new car there is really no excuse to not own a hybrid at least.

 

I believe in electrics, but I realize they will take time to get to a market standpoint for everyone. The naysayers will die out as they become better. Cars are dangerous, very much so... Bikes are worst due to no protection. When people ask why I don't drive I ask them in a traffic jam how many points of escape do you have if a 50 ton truck looses control coming towards you? assuming you have 5 seconds to respond and a car in front no where, that's where. You dead. As a pedestrian I have a near instant reaction time and a 360 degree ability, slower? Yes, transit slower? Yes, safer? Oh yea...

 

As for financials, I keep pointing out to people owning a car for 10 years is like paying off $100,000-200,000 on a house, esp in canada... A car costs $5000 min used (most people go for $10-15 used or $25-35 new esp with those new 7 year loans) licencing another $150ish/year for plate renewal(ontario) gas unknown (variable) insurance can be $500-$5000 depending (per year), maintenance is at least oil changes for ICE. If the car doesn't make you money why own it? If all you do is sit in traffic for hours a week (acceptable to drivers, yet not yielding to peds for 30 seconds to cross ) drive to and from work not going to another job, owning a vehicle of any type is a fairly dumb idea, and a perfect way of becoming unhealthy esp if transit is available.

 

Yes, but what ever you do DON'T let York Region do your transit planning... RIP Yonge Street... That and they can't run their own system except into the ground...

 

The reason why I say 100-200K: People are gullible idiots, end of story.

 

[handymanshandle]

59 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Once again incorrect, current EV's (plug-ins for the paranoid) are good for 99+% of people. It's just people refuse to change. That doesn't make them no good for people.

You're working off a large assumption, you're assuming no one or almost no one takes road trips longer than the average range of EVs on the market.

having ridden in a car for about 1,000 miles and for 13 hours, I can tell you. It would've been literal hell if the car would've been an EV.

I'm sure there's plenty of Americans at least, who do plenty of road trips a year where an EV would've been literal hell for their trips. You're from Canada, just about as large as America, and even more spread out because there's only like 36,000,000 Canadians whereas there's 360,000,000 Americans . I'm sure plenty of Canadians take road trips and would think an EV would be hell to have for that. Thought maybe fewer Canadians on average road trip than Americans because how spread out things are that flying is more beneficial.

 

[Egg-Roll]

4 minutes ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

You're working off a large assumption, you're assuming no one or almost no one takes road trips longer than the average range of EVs on the market.

having ridden in a car for about 1,000 miles and for 13 hours, I can tell you. It would've been literal hell if the car would've been an EV.

I'm sure there's plenty of Americans at least, who do plenty of road trips a year where an EV would've been literal hell for their trips. You're from Canada, just about as large as America, and even more spread out because there's only like 36,000,000 Canadians whereas there's 360,000,000 Americans . I'm sure plenty of Canadians take road trips and would think an EV would be hell to have for that. Thought maybe fewer Canadians on average road trip than Americans because how spread out things are that flying is more beneficial.

 

In a previous post I pointed out a logical person would rent/borrow a ICE vehicle of some sort for such trips, if you own a hybrid no issues tho. I would guess it will take at least another 50 years before we see a car worth 50K getting 600+km range (the ford in the driveway gets about 660 on a full tank) w/o recharging, hopefully less but it still is a far away.

 

Also if you do plenty of road trips with modern economy you can likely afford a Tesla S/X... Which if you have kids can be a blessing for charging  "are we there yet"

[G27Racer_188]

While I love traditional ICE cars, I am not completely against electric cars, they have their place.

 

The main problem I see is that people are pushing them forwards even if they are not ready. Don't get me wrong, Teslas and Nissan leafs are not bad cars, they just appeal to many people yet.

 

I mean it took us about 100 years to get regular cars to point where they are today. You can't expect electric cars to do same in 20. They simply need to be around on the market for some time and they will progress naturally. As more and more people buy electric cars, more and more will eventually end up on used market and new people will get to experience electrics at a reasonable cost. When they do they will be more likely to get another electric vehicle next.

 

Currently it looks a bit like the beginning of the RGB crayze, when everyone just glued RGB everywhere they could, and it was awful. With time situation got better and now we have RGB that isn't just pure vomit.

[handymanshandle]

1 minute ago, Egg-Roll said:

In a previous post I pointed out a logical person would rent/borrow a ICE vehicle of some sort for such trips, if you own a hybrid no issues tho. I would guess it will take at least another 50 years before we see a car worth 50K getting 600+km range (the ford in the driveway gets about 660 on a full tank) w/o recharging, hopefully less but it still is a far away.

 

Also if you do plenty of road trips with modern economy you can likely afford a Tesla S/X... Which if you have kids can be a blessing for charging  "are we there yet"

I mean, why would you do that when you could just own an ICE car? Yeah hybrids wouldn't have those issues because it'd be a gas powered car 60% of the time lol

Gas powered cars, specifically ones from Honda are rivaling fuel efficiency of a lot of hybrids

[kokakolia]

32 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Well the i3 is a prime example of a cheap fully electric(used), plus many hybrids are now available for good prices used(always get the batteries checked), so when it comes time for a new car there is really no excuse to not own a hybrid at least.

 

I believe in electrics, but I realize they will take time to get to a market standpoint for everyone. The naysayers will die out as they become better. Cars are dangerous, very much so... Bikes are worst due to no protection. When people ask why I don't drive I ask them in a traffic jam how many points of escape do you have if a 50 ton truck looses control coming towards you? assuming you have 5 seconds to respond and a car in front no where, that's where. You dead. As a pedestrian I have a near instant reaction time and a 360 degree ability, slower? Yes, transit slower? Yes, safer? Oh yea...

 

As for financials, I keep pointing out to people owning a car for 10 years is like paying off $100,000-200,000 on a house, esp in canada... A car costs $5000 min used (most people go for $10-15 used or $25-35 new esp with those new 7 year loans) licencing another $150ish/year for plate renewal(ontario) gas unknown (variable) insurance can be $500-$5000 depending (per year), maintenance is at least oil changes for ICE. If the car doesn't make you money why own it? If all you do is sit in traffic for hours a week (acceptable to drivers, yet not yielding to peds for 30 seconds to cross ) drive to and from work not going to another job, owning a vehicle of any type is a fairly dumb idea, and a perfect way of becoming unhealthy esp if transit is available.

 

Yes, but what ever you do DON'T let York Region do your transit planning... RIP Yonge Street... That and they can't run their own system except into the ground...

 

The reason why I say 100-200K: People are gullible idiots, end of story.

 

The financing part, combined with insurance is absolutely disgusting. I would much rather give the government $5000 every year to go towards a better mass transit system rather than spending that same amount of money on a dumb car that depreciates in value and pay insurance just to say that I have insurance. I also can’t stand the idea of other people driving. They’re likely drunk, high or texting. You never know. I would much rather have a professional do all the driving. 

[Egg-Roll]

5 minutes ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

I mean, why would you do that when you could just own an ICE car? Yeah hybrids wouldn't have those issues because it'd be a gas powered car 60% of the time lol

Gas powered cars, specifically ones from Honda are rivaling fuel efficiency of a lot of hybrids

If you do mainly city a cheap EV like a used i3 would be cheaper than any ICE vehicle after 5 years, so by borrowing or renting a car for 2-3 days once or twice a year it would be a logical move more so than the suggestion of owning and maintaining 2 vehicles.

 

The hybrid is actually dependent on which one you get, look at what Linus bought, he bought the Volt which gives him 100% battery to and from work and only once or twice a month gas. It comes down to the one person being smart enough (and willing) to sit down to figure out how much they drive, how much they can afford to spend and how much they are going to save by going either full EV or hybrid with pure battery run time. I for a fact know even if I go to Toronto to work on a daily bases a Leaf will get me to and from work on a single charge, and if not I know there are chargers I can leave it at for 20 minutes so I can get food or something else needed.

 

11 minutes ago, kokakolia said:

The financing part, combined with insurance is absolutely disgusting. I would much rather give the government $5000 every year to go towards a better mass transit system rather than spending that same amount of money on a dumb car that depreciates in value and pay insurance just to say that I have insurance. I also can’t stand the idea of other people driving. They’re likely drunk, high or texting. You never know. I would much rather have a professional do all the driving. 

Don't give YRT that idea, they'll charge but not increase or improve service... But I do agree, I would gladly pay old YRT 2zone rates for TTC if it means political BS can finally leave so we can see the Sheppard LRT finally be finished among with other improvements.

 

Drunks are usually noticeable, those that are high not so much, and texters need to be shot on sight since they have surpassed the other 2 in vehicle murders... Also vaping should become illegal while driving, the cloud it produces can obstruct the drivers view...

[kokakolia]

2 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

If you do mainly city a cheap EV like a used i3 would be cheaper than any ICE vehicle after 5 years, so by borrowing or renting a car for 2-3 days once or twice a year it would be a logical move more so than the suggestion of owning and maintaining 2 vehicles.

 

The hybrid is actually dependent on which one you get, look at what Linus bought, he bought the Volt which gives him 100% battery to and from work and only once or twice a month gas. It comes down to the one person being smart enough (and willing) to sit down to figure out how much they drive, how much they can afford to spend and how much they are going to save by going either full EV or hybrid with pure battery run time. I for a fact know even if I go to Toronto to work on a daily bases a Leaf will get me to and from work on a single charge, and if not I know there are chargers I can leave it at for 20 minutes so I can get food or something else needed.

 

Don't give YRT that idea, they'll charge but not increase or improve service... But I do agree, I would gladly pay old YRT 2zone rates for TTC if it means political BS can finally leave so we can see the Sheppard LRT finally be finished among with other improvements.

 

Drunks are usually noticeable, those that are high not so much, and texters need to be shot on sight since they have surpassed the other 2 in vehicle murders... Also vaping should become illegal while driving, the cloud it produces can obstruct the drivers view...

Right! More money doesn’t equal better services. That is so much more true with private companies. You can give them all the money you have and they will still cut corners and strive to do the minimum. 

[Mihle]

19 minutes ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

I mean, why would you do that when you could just own an ICE car? Yeah hybrids wouldn't have those issues because it'd be a gas powered car 60% of the time lol

Gas powered cars, specifically ones from Honda are rivaling fuel efficiency of a lot of hybrids

Because it's better for the environment. Not only less CO2 but also less gasses you breathe in while being a place where there is cars.

With efficiency, maybe in long highway speed trips, but city driving or driving with quite a bit of slow downs and acceleration? He'll no. Just no.

[Sakkura]

40 minutes ago, G27Racer_188 said:

While I love traditional ICE cars, I am not completely against electric cars, they have their place.

 

The main problem I see is that people are pushing them forwards even if they are not ready. Don't get me wrong, Teslas and Nissan leafs are not bad cars, they just appeal to many people yet.

 

I mean it took us about 100 years to get regular cars to point where they are today. You can't expect electric cars to do same in 20. They simply need to be around on the market for some time and they will progress naturally. As more and more people buy electric cars, more and more will eventually end up on used market and new people will get to experience electrics at a reasonable cost. When they do they will be more likely to get another electric vehicle next.

 

Currently it looks a bit like the beginning of the RGB crayze, when everyone just glued RGB everywhere they could, and it was awful. With time situation got better and now we have RGB that isn't just pure vomit.

Leaving aside the electric cars that were around all the way back in the 1800s, modern production cars using lithium-ion batteries have been around since the late 90s. By 2030 the manufacturers will have had a fair amount of time to polish the tech. I think that's a very reasonable point to go for a major changeover from internal combustion.

[G27Racer_188]

3 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

Leaving aside the electric cars that were around all the way back in the 1800s, modern production cars using lithium-ion batteries have been around since the late 90s. By 2030 the manufacturers will have had a fair amount of time to polish the tech. I think that's a very reasonable point to go for a major changeover from internal combustion.

True, but they weren't really mass production vehicles, those came around 2010-ish.

 

Anyway, that's just my point of view. We will see what will happen in the future.

[Jtalk4456]

1 hour ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

You're working off a large assumption, you're assuming no one or almost no one takes road trips longer than the average range of EVs on the market.

having ridden in a car for about 1,000 miles and for 13 hours, I can tell you. It would've been literal hell if the car would've been an EV.

I'm sure there's plenty of Americans at least, who do plenty of road trips a year where an EV would've been literal hell for their trips. You're from Canada, just about as large as America, and even more spread out because there's only like 36,000,000 Canadians whereas there's 360,000,000 Americans . I'm sure plenty of Canadians take road trips and would think an EV would be hell to have for that. Thought maybe fewer Canadians on average road trip than Americans because how spread out things are that flying is more beneficial.

 

Your theory is interesting, especially since the highest range vehicles on the consumer market go up to 700 miles, not 1000. Also just so happens the second highest range car at 2 miles less than a diesel jaguar is a hybrid kia optima XD

 

[handymanshandle]

6 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

Your theory is interesting, especially since the highest range vehicles on the consumer market go up to 700 miles, not 1000. Also just so happens the second highest range car at 2 miles less than a diesel jaguar is a hybrid kia optima XD

 

I was talking about pure EVs, my understanding is that the Tesla Model S representing the longer range EVs, has a comparable gas range to about a 2L I4 Kia Soul with a 12 gallon tank and takes 30 minutes to charge at a super charger where you can be in and out of a gas station within 10 minutes with the Kia Soul.

 

35 minutes ago, Mihle said:

Because it's better for the environment. Not only less CO2 but also less gasses you breathe in while being a place where there is cars.

With efficiency, maybe in long highway speed trips, but city driving or driving with quite a bit of slow downs and acceleration? He'll no. Just no.

Again I don't see how EVs are better for the environment, lithium batteries are not great for the environment and most places use coal power so that's just even more going against them, CO2 isn't the enemy, plants need it to respire and produce glucose.

The only thing that EVs seem good for is maintenance cost, at least until they hit around 10 years or so and the battery cell will likely need to be replaced. There's far fewer systems to service in an EV and that's where they, in my opinion have a huge advantage over ICE vehicles. Gas cost for most clearly isn't an issue but electric is cheap for now, though if too many people get EVs I could see electricity prices rising quickly

 

Don't get me wrong, I think for those who can should buy an EV or a hybrid. I personally don't care what someone wants to buy with their own money, that's their choice and their money and it's a tragedy that this is a position that I've seen some people stand against.

 

I wouldn't buy a hybrid of an EV right now for the simple fact of the cost being a major barrier and being not too keen on older hybrids (the only old hybrid I'd consider would be a Chevy Volt), not really being interested in the vehicles for myself personally I see myself making 1,000 mile roadtrips in the future on occasion.

[TopHatProductions115]

1 hour ago, kokakolia said:

The financing part, combined with insurance is absolutely disgusting. I would much rather give the government $5000 every year to go towards a better mass transit system rather than spending that same amount of money on a dumb car that depreciates in value and pay insurance just to say that I have insurance. I also can’t stand the idea of other people driving. They’re likely drunk, high or texting. You never know. I would much rather have a professional do all the driving. 

I do understand your frustration with other drivers being irresponsible, but I must ask you something(s):

• Are mass-transit vehicles required to undergo emissions currently?
• Are mass-transit vehicles any safer than using your own car?
• Are mass-transit vehicles any more efficient than using your own car at the hypothetical price you mentioned?

As for background information, this can't apply:

• http://www.mta.info/news/2018/01/08/mta-testing-10-new-all-electric-buses-reduce-emissions-modernize-public-transit

because it's still being implemented and rolled out. The program isn't widespread yet.

Hybrid buses count if there are any.

 

This is a thing:

• http://gothamist.com/2018/08/14/mta_body_cams.php

[Mihle]

6 minutes ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

Again I don't see how EVs are better for the environment, lithium batteries are not great for the environment and most places use coal power so that's just even more going against them, CO2 isn't the enemy, plants need it to respire and produce glucose.

The only thing that EVs seem good for is maintenance cost, at least until they hit around 10 years or so and the battery cell will likely need to be replaced. There's far fewer systems to service in an EV and that's where they, in my opinion have a huge advantage over ICE vehicles. Gas cost for most clearly isn't an issue but electric is cheap for now, though if too many people get EVs I could see electricity prices rising quickly

 

Don't get me wrong, I think for those who can should buy an EV or a hybrid. I personally don't care what someone wants to buy with their own money, that's their choice and their money and it's a tragedy that this is a position that I've seen some people stand against.

 

I wouldn't buy a hybrid of an EV right now for the simple fact of the cost being a major barrier and being not too keen on older hybrids (the only old hybrid I'd consider would be a Chevy Volt), not really being interested in the vehicles for myself personally I see myself making 1,000 mile roadtrips in the future on occasion.

It moves the bad air out of cities. And power plants will change over time if not your government is utter stupid.

Bad air in cities cause a LOT of deaths every single year.

 

It's much more than enough CO2 in the air for plants. The increased temperature is much much worse for the plants than more CO2 is for plants by a large margin. Also, more CO2 actually make plants have less vitamins per kg of plant.

 

Of electricity prices rise quickly, more companies will want to produce electricity. If government owned, then government decides.

 

What you choose is your decision.

[Jtalk4456]

1 hour ago, G27Racer_188 said:

I mean it took us about 100 years to get regular cars to point where they are today. You can't expect electric cars to do same in 20. 

actually........

it is very reasonable to assume technology will advance at a faster pace than it did in the past for a couple of reasons I'll put below

Also, to be clear much of the innovation that has happened in those 100 years has happened in a much shorter time span than that. And cars have been around a lot longer than 100 years.

1771 - First Steam Vehicle. It was a piece of crap, didn't hold a passenger. It crashed into a wall

1832 - First Electric Car

1859 - First rechargeable battery for electric vehicles

1872 - First liquid fueled internal combustion engine.

1873 - 100 years later, first "decent" steam vehicle, held 2 passengers and looked like a car (not modern obviously)

1875 - A city to city race in the US to find a suitable replacement for horses and carriages. Vehicle had to maintain a minimum of 5 mph over the 200 mile course

1888 - The Flocken Elektrowagen of 1888 by German inventor Andreas Flocken is regarded as the first real electric car of the world.

 

So this is all really slow progress, but lets skip ahead to the hundred years you're thinking of

 

20's - Model T: Top Speed 40-45 mph, 21 mpg fuel efficiency

30's - Chrystler Imperial: Top Speed 80 mph, 26 mpg

40's - Caddilac Coup Deville: Top Speed 93, 14 mpg

Moderate improvements and fall backs on efficiency were made from then to now, and at this point changes in ice cars are almost non existent. Most 4 seater cars you find these days are lucky to get 25-30 mpg. Yet back in the 40's, there was a Tucker car that got up to 35 mpg

With any technology it's not simply constant advancement. The tick tock motion we use to describe processors has also described all of technology. By definition, a technology will be invented first (the tick or building of a cpu architecture) and then will later be refined (tock) We are well into the tock for ICE's. Electric cars have been around for ages, but to the degree of being usable commute vehicles in this modern world, they are fairly new in the tock stage. 

That's the nature of things. The difference is, and the reason why tech will move much faster than you imagine is, that technology is exponential. When a new technology is created, it facilitates and pushes the invention of other technology. Consider having to invent a modern car right now, but you can't use any past technology. you have to invent the engine the computer chips, the transmission, the gears, the EVERYTHING. There are underlying technologies that exist as the foundations to any new invention. Computers allowed us to invent servers, allowed us to invent intranets, allowed us to invent the internet as we know it. Taking it a step further, the digital cataloging of all human knowledge allows for nearly every invention by giving us access to everything that has been invented. People can communicate faster and share information faster and faster. People can 3d print prototypes from their own home and test without buying large industrial machines and finding out the product doesn't work. Past advancement of technology only stands to accelerate further advancement of technology, and it's going at a breakneck pace. When I was a kid, we had a computer that still made me type /win to open windows. Now I can build a working computer as powerful as that one in minecraft! I can use virtual reality! Technology WILL grow exponentially, and for the sake of the environment, electric cars have to follow this pattern as well

[Mihle]

2 minutes ago, TopHatProductions115 said:

I do understand your frustration with other drivers being irresponsible, but I must ask you something(s):

• Are mass-transit vehicles required to undergo emissions currently?
• Are mass-transit vehicles any safer than using your own car?
• Are mass-transit vehicles any more efficient than using your own car at the hypothetical price you mentioned?

As for background information, this can't apply:

• http://www.mta.info/news/2018/01/08/mta-testing-10-new-all-electric-buses-reduce-emissions-modernize-public-transit

because it's still being implemented and rolled out. The program isn't widespread yet.

Hybrid buses count if there are any.

 

This is a thing:

• http://gothamist.com/2018/08/14/mta_body_cams.php

Firstly, trains go on electricity. Trains are great, and over longer distances its faster than car if you live close to and destination is close to a train station.

 

Yes, mass transit is much safer than using your own car. Much much more people die in cars per person km traveled. (Especially trains) Mass transit drivers drive MUCH more than any private person does.

 

As long as many enough people is on a bus the emmisions per person is lower than cars. No matter if it runs on diesel or not. Trains is electric but also don't have batteries so...

 

More and more busses in Oslo is biogass or electric. Those electric doesn't actually have that big of a battery, but it has a supercharger at the end station that if I remember right charge even faster than Tesla super charger.

[TopHatProductions115]

12 minutes ago, Mihle said:

It moves the bad air out of cities. And power plants will change over time if not your government is utter stupid.

Bad air in cities cause a LOT of deaths every single year.

 

It's much more than enough CO2 in the air for plants. The increased temperature is much much worse for the plants than more CO2 is for plants by a large margin. Also, more CO2 actually make plants have less vitamins per kg of plant.

 

Of electricity prices rise quickly, more companies will want to produce electricity. If government owned, then government decides.

 

What you choose is your decision.

At least the batteries in most vehicles (of any type) can be recycled.

• https://auto.howstuffworks.com/can-electric-car-batteries-be-recycled.htm

However, EVs have other issues, such as where their electricity is sourced from and how batteries degrade over time. Until these factors are accounted for and overcome, EVs will have somewhat limited adoption in my opinion:

• https://www.autoevolution.com/news/six-problems-with-electric-cars-that-nobody-talks-about-112221.html
• https://theconversation.com/not-so-fast-why-the-electric-vehicle-revolution-will-bring-problems-of-its-own-94980

Also, @Mihle, did you read the last link in my previous post?

[benji_]

id go electric if they wernt so boring and took didnt take 3 years to charge. whereas with petrol they are much more enjoyable and i can refill in 2 mins

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

6 hours ago, Jtalk4456 said:

VERY dependent on where you are. While there are a very few places where this is legal, most places this is very illegal. Personally I have no clue why it's legal anywhere, it's reckless driving and should not be allowed

Over here (Belgium) it's legal between the two left-most lanes of the highway, but only if the cars are going slower than 50km/h (31MPH).  The motorcyclist's speed may only be 20km/h (12.4MPH) higher than that of the cars he/she is passing.  

Filtering at a red light is perfectly acceptable too, even if that's a grey area as far as the law is concerned.

 

Works just fine.  People know where they can expect motorcyclists to pass them and usually leave space.  Of course one has to keep in mind that driver education over here is a lot better, which results in far fewer idiots on the road.

 

-----

 

On-topic :

 

A lot of people complain about the high purchase prices of electric vehicles, but they forget that maintenance is a lot cheaper.

An ICE vehicle needs regular oil changes, oil filters, air filters, valve adjustments and spark plugs.  Over the lifetime of the vehicle, the cost of those parts and labor tends to add up.

Also, the tires and brakes on EVs tend to last a lot longer due to the electric motor's smoother power delivery and due to regenerative braking.

 

The EV's battery typically lasts as long (or longer) as an ICE vehicle's engine, so an EV's owner will need to buy a new battery roughly as often as an ICE vehicle's owner has to have the engine rebuilt/replaced.   The electric motor probably could do with new bearings by that time too, but that's probably a $200 job.

 

 

I'm in the market for a new motorcycle (waiting for the 2019 lineups to be revealed) and am really torn between getting an electric or an ICE.  My heart wants to go electric, my brain keeps saying "but what if something happens and you need to drive hundreds of miles in one go so you can help a friend or get away from a disaster?".    

[G27Racer_188]

1 hour ago, Jtalk4456 said:

Technology WILL grow exponentially, and for the sake of the environment, electric cars have to follow this pattern as well

I agree with you that it is an exponential curve. Where our opinions differ is time period over which the curve is plotted, and our current position on that curve.

1 hour ago, Jtalk4456 said:

actually........

But I did enjoy reading your lengthy comment.

In my opinion (using processor analogy) we are at Nehalem, but there are still Sandy Bridge and Skylake to go through. 

Electric cars are good enough and usable,  if you are satisfied with good enough. Others don't want to make sacrifices and are waiting for new generations to come.