Intel's Response to 2nd Generation Ryzen CPU's

[InitializingDev]

Articles

http://digiworthy.com/2018/03/23/8-core-intel-coffee-lake-3dmark/

https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel-8-core-coffee-lake-leak

 

Intel is preparing for the upcoming launch of AMD Ryzen 2 with an 8 core hyper-threaded CPU, however it not launching as close as people think as PCGamesN state in their article 

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That, we’re being told, is not going to happen until September or October this year. 

However this is divergent to Digi Worthy where Kevin Wilson writes 

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For now, Intel will launch the remaining Coffee Lake-S processors that will target the budget PC segment. The launch is expected to take place in early April alongside the cheaper 300-series motherboards, but those boards are not going to host a high-end, 8-core Intel CPU. Rather, that’s more what you’d expect from the touted Z390 chipset.

This big difference in release prediction is rather interesting as it questions the validity of both sources. Weather or not they themselves are getting the information from reliable sources or if they are just making up the dates. 

 

According to PCGamesN it was spotted in the 3D mark benchmark databases 

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an octacore Intel Coffee Lake CPU has been spotted lurking in the 3DMark database.

This is supported by Kevin Wilson on Digi Worthy where he explicitly states 

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According to the listing on the 3DMark database, the unnanmed Coffee Lake-S processor has eight CPU cores and supports HyperThreading for a total of 16 threads. Other than that, there’s not much information we can get from this listing, or the ones that are included are pretty light on power.

 

My Opinion

This bump in cores will be interesting as currently AMD's value proposition to customers is the number of cores over the speed of the cores. With new 2nd Gen AMD processors coming out soon I question weather AMD's lower manufacturing process and higher clock speeds will be enough to stand against Intels cpu's. In the past typically Intel has held its throne due to their stronger cores, while AMD have appealed to customers through the shear number of cores. But if Intel can sell the same amount of cores that in turn could also be stronger than AMD what hope does AMD have. With 2nd Gen Ryzen we are not see a new architecture but instead a slightly refined copy of the current Zen architecture. For AMD to stand against Intel, I think there could be the possibility for AMD to further drop their prices when Intel hits the scene. 

 

Paradoxically, both articles do state the idea that AMD could be hiding the benchmarks to their Ryzen 2800x to compete with Intel, with Digi Mark going as far to say

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They could be keeping their absolute best in reserve to tackle Intel 8-core chip when it appears in H2 2018.

 

PCGamesN:

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And if AMD had some inkling that an eight-core Intel chip might be in the offing that might explain why a potential top-end Ryzen 7 2800X hasn’t been seen in any of the leaked benchmarks so far - they could well be keeping their absolute best Ryzen 2 chip in reserve.

 

However, I would also like to state that I don't personally believe that one listing on 3D mark is enough to be talking about a new 8 core Intel CPU on the mainstream. This sort of scandal has occurred in the past and there is the possibility that this CPU is just a fake. 

 

Image Source: Digi Worthy

[thisforumsucksassdeletemya]

Every god damn generation "HOW WILL AMD SURVIVE????????????!?!?!?" *slips money into reviewer's pocket to try to make AMD look bad*

[imreloadin]

Remeber when the most Intel would give us before going full HEDT was a hyper threaded quad core....

[ApolloFury]

Remember when we had to pay $1000 for an 8 core CPU only just a few years ago? Now it's mainstream.

 

EDIT:

Just now, imreloadin said:

Remeber when the most Intel would give us before going full HEDT was a hyper threaded quad core....

Oh wow we posted at the same time.

Edited March 25, 2018 by ApolloFury
added quote

[Notional]

Well isn't that something? Intel spamming quad core "high end" CPU's for almost a decade. AMD finally gets competitive after suffering massively from Intel's illegal conspiracies. And suddenly, just a year after Ryzen launched, Intel has octo core high end mainstream CPU's coming. It's almost as if market leaders abusing their power, is bad for consumers and the market in general *caughGPPcaugh*. Almost like proper competition gives us better and cheaper products.

 

Without Ryzen, this product would not exist. Support the companies that actually makes the market better for us consumers for more of this. 

[Blademaster91]

1 minute ago, imreloadin said:

Remeber when the most Intel would give us before going full HEDT was a hyper threaded quad core....

Because it outperformed the competition with half the physical cores, i'm not arguing competition is a bad thing but most consumers still don't need anything more than a hyperthreaded dual core, or at most a quad core. Anyway this cpu might be the "9700K" 8 core everyone was wanting when Z370 was released.

[tp95112]

As much as I like them having a core war, Intel better have the same IPC or better at that clockspeed compared to kabylake. 2200mhz is very slow for gamers 

[imreloadin]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Because it outperformed the competition with half the physical cores, i'm not arguing competition is a bad thing but most consumers still don't need anything more than a hyperthreaded dual core, or at most a quad core. Anyway this cpu might be the "9700K" 8 core everyone was wanting when Z370 was released.

Define "need"

[InitializingDev]

3 minutes ago, tp95112 said:

As much as I like them having a core war, Intel better have the same IPC or better at that clockspeed compared to kabylake. 2200mhz is very slow for gamers 

I personally think most of the specs there are faked. Im not sure how 3D mark get theirs specs but I know that if you want to fool windows, you can just perform a simple registry tweak and the next time you open up system specs on the pc it will say whatever cpu you typed into the tweak

[Sacriledgy]

I gave up on PC long time ago because of this highly bloated prices in my country (with crazy high electronic Tax). Dang Miners.

[Methos]

2.2... so a V1 ES. AMD will make really good money until this is released maybe longer if clusterfck.

[ARikozuM]

17 minutes ago, tp95112 said:

As much as I like them having a core war, Intel better have the same IPC or better at that clockspeed compared to kabylake. 2200mhz is very slow for gamers 

Most engineering samples are low on clock speed so that they maintain stability. But yes, they had better give us at least 3.5GHz. 

[Okjoek]

Lemme guess: Incompatible with all previous motherboards?

[InitializingDev]

Just now, Okjoek said:

Lemme guess: Incompatible with all previous motherboards?

Digi Worthy did write in their article:

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It’s not clear whether the upcoming 8-core Intel chip will only be compatible with Z390 motherboards, or it will also work in Z370 with a BIOS update. Though I don’t think it would make too much sense to release the Z390 chipset if the current boards did support it.

However, I am not sure how valid this is

http://digiworthy.com/2018/03/23/8-core-intel-coffee-lake-3dmark/

[ARikozuM]

3 minutes ago, Okjoek said:

Lemme guess: Incompatible with all previous motherboards?

Shouldn't be [incompatible] given older generations, but hopefully they're compatible [without loss of features]. Unless we're going to have a 1151v3, in which case I'll just expect a dual-CPU board to be released. 

[Hunter259]

26 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

Define "need"

90% of your average consumer would see no difference going from a Dual core hyper/quad core to a quad hyper/6core. Browsing reddit and watching youtube isn't exactly intensive.

[InitializingDev]

4 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Shouldn't be given older generations, but hopefully they're compatible. Unless we're going to have a 1151v3, in which case I'll just expect a dual-CPU board to be released. 

What my question is though is that with more CPU cores comes more enthusiasts wanting the buy the CPU for high end workstation use. And traditionally enthusiasts have wanted more ram or more ram across more dims. However, if I am correct, Z370 only supports having 4 ram slots. So will they release a new chipset to accomodate for more ram and PCIE slots. Plus, Digi Worthy did put a road map on their site.

 

Image Source: Digi Worthy

 

[Zodiark1593]

4 minutes ago, Hunter259 said:

90% of your average consumer would see no difference going from a Dual core hyper/quad core to a quad hyper/6core. Browsing reddit and watching youtube isn't exactly intensive.

I would prefer the average consumer to get quad cores anyway. It means they can load up more junkware and malware before the pc gets slow enough that said consumer bothers me to fix it.

[Hunter259]

Just now, Zodiark1593 said:

I would prefer the average consumer to get quad cores anyway. It means they can load up more junkware and malware before the pc gets slow enough that said consumer bothers me to fix it.

That still doesn't change the fact that Intel being "lazy" due to lack of competition actually hurt anyone realistically. The mobile space they have been quite good with getting faster processors that use so much less power. The desktop space no one has truly needed anymore power since even 1st gen core (Quad Core and higher) or i3 sandy bridge. Most reasons to upgrade are due to new encoding types that the older chips don't support.

[JediFragger]

I doubt mainstream gaming devs are going to be targeting 8c/16t for a good while. I'm expecting my delided 8700k@5Ghz to last a fair while and not get left behind when paired with a decent gfx card. 4/5 years maybe?

[MoonSpot]

Anyone think that Ryzen is the reason why intel killed off their developer events?  IIRC they said that they canned it in order to be more flexible/responsive.  Guess they heard through the grapevine that AMD had a big pair of balls swinging their way and they needed to get serious for a stretch.  Still seems AMD did manage to hold the extent of their upswing quite the secret for a lot longer than anyone expected.

Now I also wonder if intels launches from here on out are going to be rougher and more glitch ridden platforms.

 

Anyways, coolbeans.  Don't see software on the consumer side stretching much beyond 8 threads for awhile yet.  Think we've all learned our lesson with AMDs core craze post quad-core duo era.

[Dabombinable]

AS long as Intel insists on having an iGPU in the majority of their CPU, I can't see Intel matching AMD for price with the next line up.

[InitializingDev]

20 minutes ago, MoonSpot said:

Anyone think that Ryzen is the reason why intel killed off their developer events?  IIRC they said that they canned it into order to be more flexible/responsive.  Guess they heard through the grapevine that AMD had a big pair of balls swinging their way and they needed to get serious for a stretch.  Still seems AMD did manage to hold the extent of their upswing quite the secret for a lot longer than anyone expected.

Now I also wonder if intels launches from here on out are going to be rougher and more glitch ridden platforms.

 

Anyways, coolbeans.  Don't see software on the consumer side stretching beyond much 8 threads for awhile yet.  Think we've all learn our lesson with AMDs core craze post quad-core duo era.

I reckon that the 2nd gen ryzen will be fine on bugs and glitches as it is already just being build upon the current architecture. However, I am not sure further down the line. If I am correct we are meant to see a new architecture in 3rd gen Ryzen.

[MoonSpot]

31 minutes ago, InitializingDev said:

I reckon that the 2nd gen ryzen will be fine on bugs and glitches as it is already just being build upon the current architecture. However, I am not sure further down the line. If I am correct we are meant to see a new architecture in 3rd gen Ryzen.

I wasn't referring to just AMD or architectures, but platforms, chipsets and intel.  I think it's a safe bet that intel is going multi-die here in this scenario in order to have cost-competitive CPUs; so I actually wasn't worried about AMD's platform iteration in regards to bugs.  I don't think any of us are particularly bothered by initial bugs on new platforms, but there is a breaking point where it crosses from teething to complete bullshit armature hour sentiments, and intel is never going to get the slack that people cut AMD.  The more trying buggy launches do tend to happen more with particularly different architectures, which I'd say intel may be doing this time around.

 

Just pondering how refined intels EMIB tech will get(and the software driving it) and throwing those musing out into the ether.  But who knows, they could very well go for another monolithic die, and charge ungodly amounts of monies for them, throwing aside the cost efficiencies that AMDs realizing.

[Notional]

1 hour ago, JediFragger said:

I doubt mainstream gaming devs are going to be targeting 8c/16t for a good while. I'm expecting my delided 8700k@5Ghz to last a fair while and not get left behind when paired with a decent gfx card. 4/5 years maybe?

They already are though. The best engines out there are so highly multi threaded they can use at least 8 threads.