[G2A Response UPDATE] Gearbox Delivers an Ultimatum to G2A for Continued Partnership

[Energycore]

1 hour ago, Grinners said:

Do people boycott Ebay because there might be some stolen items for sale on there?

I think the main difference between Ebay and G2A is that ebay will protect your buy for free, they actually have a guarantee and they actually allow for companies to single out and ban sellers of stolen goods from their website. Of course stolen goods will sometimes trickle into there, but they do have the intention to keep that from happening. On the other hand G2A profits from this very issue. They're specialized in selling "shady" game keys.

[AshleyAshes]

4 minutes ago, Energycore said:

I think the main difference between Ebay and G2A is that ebay will protect your buy for free, they actually have a guarantee and they actually allow for companies to single out and ban sellers of stolen goods from their website.

Not to mention, since eBay and PayPal are tied at the hip, what with PayPal having been owned by eBay until 2014 when PayPal was spun off, eBay and PayPal are the actual losers if an individual uses either service for laundering money from stolen credit cards.  It's in their best interest to prevent money laundering as best they can.

 

G2A on the other hand isn't handling the processing of stolen credit cards.  Other places elsewhere are used to buy game keys with stolen cards, G2A just acts as the market place for the sale of those stolen keys to others in a different transaction.  So it's not G2A who gets charged back for the keys and they're insulated from that financial hit,

[Bleedingyamato]

58 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Not to mention, since eBay and PayPal are tied at the hip, what with PayPal having been owned by eBay until 2014 when PayPal was spun off, eBay and PayPal are the actual losers if an individual uses either service for laundering money from stolen credit cards.  It's in their best interest to prevent money laundering as best they can.

 

G2A on the other hand isn't handling the processing of stolen credit cards.  Other places elsewhere are used to buy game keys with stolen cards, G2A just acts as the market place for the sale of those stolen keys to others in a different transaction.  So it's not G2A who gets charged back for the keys and they're insulated from that financial hit,

Aren't eBay and PayPal still owned by the same company?    I mean like PayPal still owned by eBay but just that it's an eBay subsidiary.  

[Derangel]

7 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Aren't eBay and PayPal still owned by the same company?    I mean like PayPal still owned by eBay but just that it's an eBay subsidiary.  

 

Nope. Paypal was spun off as a separate, publicly traded, company in 2014.

[Grinners]

1 hour ago, Energycore said:

I think the main difference between Ebay and G2A is that ebay will protect your buy for free, they actually have a guarantee and they actually allow for companies to single out and ban sellers of stolen goods from their website. Of course stolen goods will sometimes trickle into there, but they do have the intention to keep that from happening. On the other hand G2A profits from this very issue. They're specialized in selling "shady" game keys.

The only thing I'll say is that it isn't "free" with eBay. It is just compulsory. It is baked into the fees you pay on ebay (passed onto the buyer through the final sale price).

 

The difference is that g2a allows you the option of forgoing this protection. I don't have an issue with this particular consumer choice being available. I chose to use insurance/protection but accept if others would rather not. 

[AshleyAshes]

15 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Aren't eBay and PayPal still owned by the same company?    I mean like PayPal still owned by eBay but just that it's an eBay subsidiary.  

I don't now how to respond to this.  You quoted me saying "what with PayPal having been owned by eBay until 2014 when PayPal was spun off" what else am I supposed to add to this?  It was owned by eBay, it was then spun off, in 2014, it is now a separate company.  I very clearly communicated this.

[dalekphalm]

23 minutes ago, Grinners said:

The only thing I'll say is that it isn't "free" with eBay. It is just compulsory. It is baked into the fees you pay on ebay (passed onto the buyer through the final sale price).

 

The difference is that g2a allows you the option of forgoing this protection. I don't have an issue with this particular consumer choice being available. I chose to use insurance/protection but accept if others would rather not. 

Err what?

 

That's a ridiculous statement.

 

You realize that G2A ALSO has seller fees, right? And by looking at them briefly, they aren't too different from eBay fees... Except only fraud protection is not extra.

 

Seller fees are a cost of business. It's how a site like eBay or G2A or Amazon Marketplace makes money from third party transactions.

[elfensky]

I mean, I just disabled the auto-payment stuff for g2a shield from the paypal side of things and all it required was 3 clicks, but I understand people who paid directly with credit cards or other methods having issues.

[Derangel]

1 hour ago, Grinners said:

The only thing I'll say is that it isn't "free" with eBay. It is just compulsory. It is baked into the fees you pay on ebay (passed onto the buyer through the final sale price).

 

The difference is that g2a allows you the option of forgoing this protection. I don't have an issue with this particular consumer choice being available. I chose to use insurance/protection but accept if others would rather not. 

Standing behind purchase BY DEFAULT is the cost of doing business. It's the sign of a good business. G2A is running a protection racket and basically tells people to fuck off if they don't pay protection. It's a scam. G2A's entire business is based on scamming customers and developers. And you are buying right into it. There is NOTHING defensible about what G2A does. No one can offer ANY valid defense of their scam because it's nothing more than ripping everyone off. And they have the balls to demand money and exclusive deals with developers and publishers in order to offer them "better protection". I hope every single G2A customer gets fucked over, maybe it will teach you all not to do business with those crooks.

[TimeOmnivore]

Update: Due to G2A not responding, Gearbox has started the process of pulling out of their partnership deal, the head of publishing, Steve Gibson, issuing the following statement:

Quote

"As there has been no public movement from G2A by the time Bulletstorm: Full Clip Edition launched now on PC,” Gibson said, “Gearbox Publishing will be doing their part to not directly support a marketplace that did not make the new public commitment to protecting customers and developers requested by Gearbox Publishing. We do not control G2A’s marketplace or where they may obtain keys from parties outside of Gearbox Publishing, but we can confirm that today we have begun executing on our extraction process."

 

 

[BuckGup]

20 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

That seems like valid, emotionally healthy, motivations to 'hate someone to death'.

Agreed. Lol. Don't ask it's just the way it is.

[killcomic]

7 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

 

That's really stupid you'd get overcharged just for living in Australia.

Yeah, they all do it.

Problem is, people here still pay. So rather than forcing publishers to lower their prices, they encourage it.

1st world problem I guess.

[Mooshi]

9 hours ago, Grinners said:

Do people boycott Ebay because there might be some stolen items for sale on there? Isnt g2a just the middleman allowing transactions between individuals? 

 

As for the grey market argument; i don't have a moral issue with buying a key from another region to avoid the 30% 'Australia tax' that companies like to charge. 

 

G2A is a 2nd last resort for me. I'll wait a few months for a game to go on sale again and buy legit or pay a few dollars more to get it through steam but I won't pay $50 more (dishonored 2 for example 3 weeks ago - 60USD on steam vs 34 on g2a). That is a big difference. 

Unlike G2A, fraud protection on eBay actually works and you don't spend weeks to months to get a refund for stolen wares.

[Mira Yurizaki]

I still don't understand this need, this desire that you must have this hot new title no matter what and somehow spending some amount of money is okay, regardless of where it's gotten from or how the thing was obtained. You may as well say going to Hong Kong and buying those cheap copies of commercial games is fine, because hey, you paid for it, and I'm sure someone actually paid for the game to have those copies made (and I realize how far fetched that argument sounds so don't bother trying to fight me on it).

 

If a game is not affordable through official channels, then wait until it drops in price. Wait until it goes on sale. Wait until it becomes affordable to you. If you think you're going to be at the far end of society just because you aren't playing the latest and greatest games, then you really need to rethink your priorities.

 

And all I have to leave with at the end is:

Quote

... if years down the track you wonder why there are no games like these anymore and all you get to play is pay-to-play and social games designed to suck money out of your pockets then the reason will stare back at you in the mirror.

 

[Ryoku]

On 4/6/2017 at 9:14 PM, Rangaman42 said:

I mean, just don't buy a game as a "steam gift" because that's clearly dodgy, but I've never seen something go wrong. I don't really care how they got the keys in the first place, that's not my problem. And, with the way my life is atm, I will either buy it that way, or it'll end up being pirated.

The steam gift ones are probably the least dodgey as they are linked to a steam account and can't be fraud as it was bought on steam, if the money got charged back steam would revoke the key and ban the account. The only down side to them is its likely people buying the game at like 80% off and then selling it as a gift at like 50% later, but that's no different then any market works.

 

edit: this over course assumes that steam would revoke the key even if it was traded to another account that didn't commit the fraud.

[Grinners]

8 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Err what?

 

That's a ridiculous statement.

 

You realize that G2A ALSO has seller fees, right? And by looking at them briefly, they aren't too different from eBay fees... Except only fraud protection is not extra.

 

Seller fees are a cost of business. It's how a site like eBay or G2A or Amazon Marketplace makes money from third party transactions.

 

You seem to be suggesting that because Ebay doesn't itemise the cost of protection/fraud that it doesn't exist. You are still paying for this when you make a purchase.

 

The only difference is that G2A shows the cost that they place on their protection and allows customers to forego this cost if they don't determine it worthwhile.

 

 

Without getting into the other areas of G2A, this concept is pretty simple. If you want the protection, pay for it. If you don't, don't pay for it. I like that the decision is left to the consumer.

 

At the risk of allowing you an easy straw-man with which to respond; I, for one, choose to buy car insurance. I don't need a car salesman bumping the purchase price of my car up 5% for their compulsory car insurance.

 

Again - I am being very specific here about this concept alone. I am not referring to other potentially 'shady' practices by G2A. Maybe this isn't the right spot to discuss it, as it is really an economic/consumer choice argument. People seem very emotionally invested in the G2A situation, and probably won't see my post for what it is.

 

[Bleedingyamato]

3 hours ago, killcomic said:

Yeah, they all do it.

Problem is, people here still pay. So rather than forcing publishers to lower their prices, they encourage it.

1st world problem I guess.

The problem is what other choice do they have?      

 

Teaching publishers a lesson is a very good idea but I don't like that doing so would mean people in Australia for example should miss out on awesome games.  ?

 

 

It's like wanting Macs to be cheaper but for those who need, not want, need a Mac they have no choice but to buy Apple's overpriced hardware.

 

Or having a problem with Windows.  Same problem.  Take me for example, I want to play PC games which means I need Windows since it's got the widest compatibility vs Linux or Mac OS.  So using those to send a message to MS isn't an option for me.  

 

[Eaglerino]

Does G2A care at all? Do they give a crap what TotalBiscuit wants the to do? I feel like this is a waste of time and kind of a dumb thing to get angry over. Good on Gearbox for not using them, but this is like asking Chinese fake lego companies to stop selling fake legos

[AshleyAshes]

1 hour ago, Eaglerino said:

Does G2A care at all? Do they give a crap what TotalBiscuit wants the to do? I feel like this is a waste of time and kind of a dumb thing to get angry over. Good on Gearbox for not using them, but this is like asking Chinese fake lego companies to stop selling fake legos

It's actually fairly possible that the backlash could grow.  G2A is putting a lot of money into sponsoring eSports teams, where as some eSports leagues are themselves directly operated by developers, this could result in developers banning sponsorship of G2A and other companies that facilitate money laundering in ways that take money from developers.  I'm not saying that WILL happen but that scenario is possible.  Particularly as Developers and Publishers are sensitive to lost revenue.  They obviously hate piracy, they less publicly hate used game sales, and they certainly don't like being on the losing end of fraud and money laundering.

[Bouzoo]

15 hours ago, Grinners said:

but I won't pay $50 more (dishonored 2 for example 3 weeks ago - 60USD on steam vs 34 on g2a). That is a big difference. 

Yet it was $24 yesterday and $25 a week ago on Bundle Stars so G2A kind of ripped of you off if we're using that logic. And it's a legit seller. Just saying. 

[Bouzoo]

3 hours ago, Grinners said:

 

You seem to be suggesting that because Ebay doesn't itemise the cost of protection/fraud that it doesn't exist. You are still paying for this when you make a purchase.

 

The only difference is that G2A shows the cost that they place on their protection and allows customers to forego this cost if they don't determine it worthwhile.

 

 

Without getting into the other areas of G2A, this concept is pretty simple. If you want the protection, pay for it. If you don't, don't pay for it. I like that the decision is left to the consumer.

As far as I can remember, last time I bought from G2A, which was years and years ago, when you choose an item the final price is still higher than the listed one, even without shield which is their fee. That would mean they get 2 fees with the shield, which ebay doesn't, so there is that. I'll test that later. If it is so, they whole ebay argument can be thrown away. 

Furthermore, many users even here, myself included, have opted out of shield, no, we do not want it, and with unchecking all boxes still ended with it. Luckily, I managed to remove it within minutes, but since it has an auto renewal I was charged. Other members have gone through hell to remove it. People that wanted the shield have found it to be utterly useless since it didn't help them when they got screwed over, you can google that in 30 seconds. Some even needed months for a dispute to be closed. "Protection'". 

[laminutederire]

16 hours ago, Grinners said:

Do people boycott Ebay because there might be some stolen items for sale on there? Isnt g2a just the middleman allowing transactions between individuals? 

 

As for the grey market argument; i don't have a moral issue with buying a key from another region to avoid the 30% 'Australia tax' that companies like to charge. 

 

G2A is a 2nd last resort for me. I'll wait a few months for a game to go on sale again and buy legit or pay a few dollars more to get it through steam but I won't pay $50 more (dishonored 2 for example 3 weeks ago - 60USD on steam vs 34 on g2a). That is a big difference. 

Dishonored 2 is currently at 30€ on steam. Like... right now.

That shows you can have the price of g2a, on steam, if you're willing to wait and be vigilant of sales

[dimitriianghelov]

There is no room for feelings when conducting a business I'm so disappointed that they gave in to John Bain public blackmail . G2A got so big that being on their front page would be better than on steam front page because of all the crap that you get on steam front page. 

 

 I also don't get people's desire to keep steam monopoly on the market . People like John Bain will never understand why people use g2a because when you make so much money a year you don't worry about your monthly rent or bills . You can't even sell your game when you done with it , I don't see people caring that someone sold a stolen PC on eBay , or sold their components when they are done with them , AMD /Intel / Nvidia is also loosing sales , so why can't some buy a cheaper game from Russia / China or from those 50c/1$ deals that Nvidia/amd makes with publishers ? 

 

 I've never used G2A but I don't understand the crusade , just make good games and you'll make a profit .

 

 

[79wjd]

30 minutes ago, dimitriianghelov said:

There is no room for feelings when conducting a business I'm so disappointed that they gave in to John Bain public blackmail . G2A got so big that being on their front page would be better than on steam front page because of all the crap that you get on steam front page. 

 

 I also don't get people's desire to keep steam monopoly on the market . People like John Bain will never understand why people use g2a because when you make so much money a year you don't worry about your monthly rent or bills . You can't even sell your game when you done with it , I don't see people caring that someone sold a stolen PC on eBay , or sold their components when they are done with them , AMD /Intel / Nvidia is also loosing sales , so why can't some buy a cheaper game from Russia / China or from those 50c/1$ deals that Nvidia/amd makes with publishers ? 

 

 I've never used G2A but I don't understand the crusade , just make good games and you'll make a profit .

 

 

They didn't let their feelings get in the way, they chose not to support a site which is known to be full of ill-gotten keys (i.e. stolen keys that end up costing customers money AND studios money).

 

If you're monthly bills are so concerning that you can't afford a game on steam, then you probably shouldn't be buying the game on G2a either (or the PC to play them).

[Derangel]

2 hours ago, dimitriianghelov said:

There is no room for feelings when conducting a business I'm so disappointed that they gave in to John Bain public blackmail . G2A got so big that being on their front page would be better than on steam front page because of all the crap that you get on steam front page. 

 

 I also don't get people's desire to keep steam monopoly on the market . People like John Bain will never understand why people use g2a because when you make so much money a year you don't worry about your monthly rent or bills . You can't even sell your game when you done with it , I don't see people caring that someone sold a stolen PC on eBay , or sold their components when they are done with them , AMD /Intel / Nvidia is also loosing sales , so why can't some buy a cheaper game from Russia / China or from those 50c/1$ deals that Nvidia/amd makes with publishers ? 

 

 I've never used G2A but I don't understand the crusade , just make good games and you'll make a profit .

 

 

 

There are plenty of LEGIT places to buy keys these days that offer prices cheaper then Steam. Even if you want to go the grey market route there are far better companies out there to use that have not been caught in the kind of scandals G2A has. Buying games is not required for you to live, you are not entitled to games at a cheaper price. Games are a luxury item. If you don't like the launch price WAIT. PC games go down in price quickly. Within six months you can find most AAA titles at half price, sometimes less, from official sources. You don't need a game the moment it comes out. You aren't going to die if you don't have the newest video game. The "I don't want to pay full price" argument is a bullshit excuse to justify supporting criminals. G2A are actively encouraging and supporting stolen keys and credit card fraud, but they continue to operate and not give a damn because no company can touch them due to them being from China.

 

This has NOTHING to do with privilege or wanting Steam to be a monopoly and everything to do with not supporting criminals that have already proven not to give a damn when they cost developers tens of thousands of dollars or cause them to go bankrupt. Instead they run a protection racket with users and on developers, demanding that developers support them if they want to guarantee that stolen keys don't end up on G2A. They are nothing more than crooks and ARE harmful to the industry, especially to indie developers.

 

You also have a gross misunderstanding of what TB was doing. He wasn't blackmailing Gearbox. We was stating that he doesn't want to support G2A or anyone that works with them. So he wasn't going to cover Gearbox titles in the future. He wasn't going to Gearbox and demanding they make changes, Gearbox came to him after they took a massive PR beating from press and fans for their decision. TB is free to decided who and he does and does not wish to feature on his channel for any reason he decides. He still won't cover Sega games after they went on a content ID spree taking down videos and LPs of the Shinging games, nearly killing his channel due to all the strikes he got.