What's up with coverage of AMD?

[Nuluvius]

1 hour ago, Helly said:

What i would like to see is @LinusTech, @Slick show more AMD in their video's.

How are you not getting the point of what has been said already? All of the content has been covered already; AMD are not producing anything of interest and their technology set is old now i.e. it has little relevance and certainly no WOW factor - they are even getting hammered on the low price point...

[Helly]

7 hours ago, Nuluvius said:

How are you not getting the point of what has been said already? All of the content has been covered already; AMD are not producing anything of interest and their technology set is old now i.e. it has little relevance and certainly no WOW factor - they are even getting hammered on the low price point...

How are you COMPLETELY missing MY point here.... im not asking them to say "oh look at this AMD, WOW its so awesome". I'm asking them to use an AMD card in a review such as the Mastercase Maker 5T Review, where luke just builds a PC in a case and shows the final pc build in it... its NOT about the performance there and not really about how it looks but more about the experience of putting a PC in that case.... WHY does that need a 1080/Titan? WHY does that need ANYTHING Nvidia? WHY NOT put a AMD card in there like a RX 480 to give AMD a TINY bit of exposure so people actually see big channels like this ALSO using AMD, or in some cases learn they even EXIST....

 

We can all scream from the sidelines with our intel and nvidia systems screaming, or in most cases whispering, "I really hope AMD does something great again", having people looking to buy PC's not even hear of AMD EVER. Or we can give AMD a tiny bit of help by letting people know they exist and that they are an option for A LOT of people... cuz the mid-range where the polaris cards fit is where the most cards are sold, so give them a little help... is that REALLY to much to ask?

 

If you respond with some lame excuse for using an nvidia card in those reviews i won't bother responding anymore, will be no point to do so....

[vorticalbox]

On ‎17‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 1:31 PM, wcreek said:

I can understand why Linus and by extension LMG doesn't talk much about AMD hardware and that's for the simple fact its not top tier performance and they devote most of their time to top tier stuff.

 

I think it's pretty pathetic though that maybe you and some others are getting pissy about LMG's coverage of AMD.

 

If AMD actually starts making better performing hardware as in hardware that can compete with Intel and Nvidia's highest offerings, I could see LMG using an AMD testbench alongside their Intel testbench, and do monitor reviews with like that monitor they just reviewed with AMD cards if AMD did make a card similar to like the Titan XP.

 

Linus's preference to gsync doesn't have to mean he's a fanboy or a shill.

problem is that most of the market is not made up of top tier hardware.

[Eddy Pasterino]

I find it interesting Nvidia fanboys aren't complaining Linus didn't use Nvidia cards in his 7 gamers 1 CPU video.

 

It's almost as if Linus will use what's best for his project, and it's not Nvidia's or Intel's fault they don't have to skip processor generations in an attempt to keep up

[dizmo]

On 2016-12-18 at 3:11 PM, kokakolia said:

-snip-

 

Because Xigmatek doesn't send out review units. The larger companies have more budget, and send out more review units.

Your issue is with the people who do the marketing, not the reviewers. They're all just making a living.

No need to get so defensive. Just pointing it out. In case you want to learn how to use it properly.

Again, they don't "go for them". That's what they're sent. Thus that's what they review.

Budget reviews are few and far between because they generally don't need the help. People are likely to just buy them, instead of going out and looking up reviews, whereas the higher priced items benefit from them more.

There was a high end headphone market long before Beats. Beats made it more mainstream, sure, but it was definitely there.

Is that a bad thing? Hell no. It got more people interested in higher end audio gear, sales increased.

It depends what forums you go to, really. This one has a lot of younger members, thus the budgets are lower. Go to an audio forum, they're much higher.

Reviewers have nothing to do with price. I don't think you understand how marketing works.

 

 

 

 

[MaxBunny]

On 12/19/2016 at 6:20 PM, Energycore said:

Half arsed reviews, uninformed opinions that they send out like they don't hold the responsibility of a media outlet (they do), and a whole bunch of not wanting to admit to making any mistake at all.

I just get tired of seeing all of the plugs for Razer and NVIDIA even when the videos have nothing to do with them. Take that monitor review for example. "Now lets compare this 4k Korean monitor to this Razer Blade I was given for free." as if that was necessary or appropriate. Then compare it again in an Alienware review, or make a video about how you have a bunch of Razer Blades for video editing, or how you're gifting them all to your employees, or how there's a Razer backpack for it, or...etc. etc. etc. You can say "NVIDIA has the most powerful product", but can you really defend Razer craptops in the same way? I think not.

 

It's nice to prefer some products but I miss the videos that focused on content made to inform viewers and not to push out sponsored products from buddy-buddy companies. At least NCIX Tech Tips is still in the same vein as the old Linus. But to be fair, anyone working their way up in an empire like his would find it hard to resist the temptations at the top. Would any of us be strong enough with Titan X's, laptops/computers, and phones being thrown at us faster than we can catch them? We put him up on a pedestal as the Batman and expected too much from a mere mortal in my opinion.

[Scitesh]

22 hours ago, Helly said:

20 minutes ago, MaxBunny said:

I just get tired of seeing all of the plugs for Razer and NVIDIA even when the videos have nothing to do with them. Take that monitor review for example. "Now lets compare this 4k Korean monitor to this Razer Blade I was given for free." as if that was necessary or appropriate. Then compare it again in an Alienware review, or make a video about how you have a bunch of Razer Blades for video editing, or how you're gifting them all to your employees, or how there's a Razer backpack for it, or...etc. etc. etc. You can say "NVIDIA has the most powerful product", but can you really defend Razer craptops in the same way? I think not.

 

It's nice to prefer some products but I miss the videos that focused on content made to inform viewers and not to push out sponsored products from buddy-buddy companies. At least NCIX Tech Tips is still in the same vein as the old Linus. But to be fair, anyone working their way up in an empire like his would find it hard to resist the temptations at the top. Would any of us be strong enough with Titan X's, laptops/computers, and phones being thrown at us faster than we can catch them? We put him up on a pedestal as the Batman and expected too much from a mere mortal in my opinion.

well if influencers like LMG don't show AMD anywhere then less and less people will hear about them and not buy their stuff...

 

 

I would totally I was asked to build a Pc for a family friend the CPU options that i gave thew were G3528 or Fx 8320

and they went with pentium bcoz "Brand name hai" and "Service nahi milega"(after sales service issues) 

And this is in mumbai (Amd India office is 20 min drive from my place)

4 hours ago, dizmo said:

 

It depends what forums you go to, really. This one has a lot of younger members, thus the budgets are lower. Go to an audio forum, they're much higher.

 

Go to AV forums the Gear those guys suggest is ludicrous I asked them for a good BUDGET headphone and those guyz suggested me dt 990 And HD 800s (WTF?they are much more expensive than my PC) .

Though the Answers you do get in audio forums raise more questions than answers 

[MEC-777]

I actually have to agree with the OP here. As tech reviewers and reporters of the latest tech-related news, they should give proper coverage and reviews of such things. 

 

Zen is AMD's completely new CPU/platform and as early hints suggest; this could be huge. This is the biggest news to come out of AMD in a long time and it should be covered more thoroughly by all tech news/review channels. Likewise with the ReLive drivers comes some pretty big changes. Namely the addition of a much better game-capture app to compete with shadowplay. I know for a fact, quite a few people (myself included) stay with Nvidia GPUs because shadowplay works so well and AMD (until now) didn't have any such software that properly competes. They could (and should) test this out, head to head, against shadowply to give viewers the rundown on how well they each function. LMG's coverage of these topics has been unprofessional, IMO. 

 

I know LMG doesn't have the best reputation for being the most professional and that is, to some extent, part of their entertainment trademark, but I agree, LMG's AMD coverage has been lacking as of late. Whether unintentional or not. 

 

Look at all the coverage Kaby Lake has received vs. AMD Zen. Kaby Lake is a minor incremental step from Sky Lake, barely worth talking about. Zen is a massive step and is much more worth talking about, IMO. 

 

As tech news/reviewers, they have a responsibility to test and report on all PC/tech-related news/products, fairly, properly and without bias. Again, I don't know if it's intentional (I doubt it), but they have not been giving AMD proper coverage lately. That I agree with.  

[DildorTheDecent]

AMD don't have the cash to pass under the table

 

xdddddddd

[Coaxialgamer]

-AMD hasn't released any noteworthy cpu in the  last few years,  so there is nothing to talk about. 

-News/rumors about ryzen : there really isn't much to talk about most of the time.  

Think about the new horizon event.  What can linus say that hasn't already been said?  He can't exactly go full fanboy about ryzen either. 

And when  talking about rumors, he usually doesn't cover many of them,  only when coming from very reputable sources.  This is also true for intel and nvidia.  

 

He has done plenty of coverage of amd gpu's.  He did a review of the rx 460,  470 and 480,  so that's that.  Heck,  he even had an interview with Raja Koduri before the polaris launch event

[mark_cameron]

On 17/12/2016 at 0:20 PM, Jamesuperfun said:

A lot of people are getting pissed off (for good reason) that Linus is not treating AMD products fairly. I know, it sounds stupid, and I used to agree - but there's some really notable things here. He isn't specifically bashing AMD but sort of pretending they don't exist, or pushing their tech under the rug.

 

In the last week or so of videos, 3 things have stirred up controversy. The previous WAN Show ignored one of the biggest topics of the week, AMD's yearly major driver update, until after the outro (at which point it was half-arsed to say the least). The review of a Korean 100Hz FreeSync Curved Ultrawide monitor was done with an Nvidia GPU, there were 2 complaints about tearing and FreeSync was only acknowledged when reading the title of the product (and a terrible excuse was in the comments). In the most recent WAN Show, AMD's event showing a huge amount of Ryzen details and some Vega updates was discussed by mostly mocking the name and then talking about Thunderbolt in the new MacBook. 

 

There's a point where it just seems like some obvious avoidance of AMD products. Even if this is not deliberate, this sort of reporting is misleading - I'd hate to see the next 'fake news' debacle involve LTT. I'll elaborate on the 3 examples from the past week below with links and timestamps. Of course, on their own these aren't too significant, but considering there are now 3 examples in the last week that have got quite a few concerns, it's worth mentioning.

 

1. WAN Show ReLive: https://youtu.be/7oEpez1ruis?t=1h8m11s

This update is AMD's yearly major update and a very good example of a discussion worthy topic for the WAN Show. They added a much better built-in zero-overhead recording thing (and separated from Raptr), added WattMann support to older cards and more. The show had quite a few questions about it in the Twitch chat. They were acknowledged after the outro, at which point Linus just mumbled some specs from the download page and ended with "There ya go, now we covered it." Watch the segment, it's the most half-arsed coverage of anything I've ever seen.

 

2. Cheap Korean Curved Ultrawide Monitor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vvdvjralvs

This one is possibly the most damning. In this video, he takes a FreeSync monitor, says "You don't get the tearing resistance of GSync" (1m55s), uses an Nvidia GPU to test it (5m07s) and complains about tearing (5m50s). I've not facepalmed so hard in a while. Then in the comments, there's this lovely post: http://prntscr.com/di7bl9 Here he says no AMD GPU can run 100FPS on AAA titles so he wont and reviewed the monitor as if you used an Nvidia GPU with it. I shouldn't have to explain why this is bad reasoning (and why this should be explained in the video), but FreeSync is useful from 45FPS on this monitor, it offers higher refresh rates at lower resolutions, Furys can run games such as the tested CS:GO at that res no problem (which is what most people want them for) and there are countless other options like reducing the settings a little or just not running at 100FPS while testing that part of the monitor. It's also very clearly a monitor review, so he should test the features of said monitor, particularly since one would pair a cheap GPU with a cheap monitor. It's just such irrelevant reasoning, and there was a lot of flak for that given in response if you care to find the thread. 

 

 

3. WAN Show RyZen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6Hugyu2CME

In this video, he starts by covering the basics of Ryzen in the event which is fine, and then goes on to discuss the use of Thunderbolt (since it's an Intel-exclusive tech) and where it could be useful. I assumed at first the event would be returned to, but they moved straight on from it. There was no time given to discuss it, no mention of Vega, no mention of the surprisingly in-depth benchmarks they gave. The dislike bar shows this, as well as the top comments. This topic is by far the biggest of the week, but it was also glossed over and had an irrelevant Intel technology made the focus (as with GSync in 2).

 

I really like this content, but please, start covering AMD products fairly. It's pissing off quite a few of your viewers and preventing you from being considered a trustworthy source. The comments on YouTube are filled with people annoyed about this. The thread for #2 is also filled with complaints: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/704937-microboard-korean-curved-ultrawide-100hz-gaming-monitor/?page=2 There was also a thread on the front page of r/PCMasterRace with some good discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/5hscps/linustechtips_has_been_showing_a_concerning_bias/

 

 

 

 

 

I am a subscriber to LTT and TechQuickie on Youtube.

 

I disagree. Linus Sebastian has given AMD constructive criticism's as he see's some of the historic errors they've made as contributing to the lack of competition in the CPU and GPU markets right now and a lack of price competition that is causing serious harm to consumers.

 

He's been very clear about this in multiple videos: references to price gouging in WAN SHOW and so forth.

 

People need to take the AMD blinkers off and remember that Linus is a technology critic.

 

He has the right to criticise AMD and Intel and NVIDIA as he has been doing.

 

He clearly wants AMD properly competing with Intel. He's stated this multiple times and was clear that he wants them competing properly in the mid range level CPU market at the very least. To stop Intel price gouging consumers.

[dizmo]

14 hours ago, Scitesh said:

Go to AV forums the Gear those guys suggest is ludicrous I asked them for a good BUDGET headphone and those guyz suggested me dt 990 And HD 800s (WTF?they are much more expensive than my PC) .

Though the Answers you do get in audio forums raise more questions than answers 

Yes, because most people on a forum like that spend more on headphones. Just like on here most people spend more on computers than the average user. It happens when you go to an enthusiast group.

DT 990s aren't that expensive btw, only $200. It could also be the way you posted. Perhaps they were trolling you.

[Scitesh]

2 hours ago, dizmo said:

Yes, because most people on a forum like that spend more on headphones. Just like on here most people spend more on computers than the average user. It happens when you go to an enthusiast group.

DT 990s aren't that expensive btw, only $200. It could also be the way you posted. Perhaps they were trolling you.

Here is  the cheapest price(that I could find)

 

Also .. I meant that for HD800s which is above INR 100K

[dizmo]

10 minutes ago, Scitesh said:

Here is  the cheapest price(that I could find)

 

Also .. I meant that for HD800s which is above INR 100K

https://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-DT-990-Pro-250-Professional-Acoustically-Applications/dp/B0011UB9CQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482379864&sr=8-1&keywords=dt990

 

$125

[Prysin]

12 hours ago, Coaxialgamer said:

-AMD hasn't released any noteworthy cpu in the  last few years,  so there is nothing to talk about. 

-News/rumors about ryzen : there really isn't much to talk about most of the time.  

Think about the new horizon event.  What can linus say that hasn't already been said?  He can't exactly go full fanboy about ryzen either. 

And when  talking about rumors, he usually doesn't cover many of them,  only when coming from very reputable sources.  This is also true for intel and nvidia.  

 

He has done plenty of coverage of amd gpu's.  He did a review of the rx 460,  470 and 480,  so that's that.  Heck,  he even had an interview with Raja Koduri before the polaris launch event

The fact that you say something like this, means you are incapable of understanding the issue at hand on your own.

 

@LinusTech and @Slick constantly talk about "i hope we get some competition" "this should bring some competition to intel" "intel has been lazy because of no competition" "Nvidia can only get away with bullshit like forced log-in for GFE due to lack of competition" and so on. We hear it all the time, infact i dare argue that you hear them say something akin to this every 3rd WAN show since 2014 at the very least.

 But when the competitor finally DO start being competitive. When the time comes for creating some fuzz and celebrating ACTUAL competition, Linus and Luke, BOTH, actively ignore the competitor. And i mean IGNORE. It's not that they do not know that AMD has a competitive product, it's that they do not really care. Because the product may not be interesting to them personally. THAT is an issue.

 

Beause despite me owning a Radeon GPU, i would very much like to know what good G-sync monitors are out there, so i can see what is possible in terms of monitor tech. Or what new feature Nvidia has in their GPUs, or the next gen Intel HD iGPU. These are things that are relevant for me as a consumer in order to make a decision. Brand loyalty doesn't benefit my wallet.

 

Likewise, whilst ZEN isnt directly for me, as i have a 4790k, i still want to know about it. And so do a lot of others.

 

By actively ignoring, they are stating that "you shouldnt care". They do not need to say it out loud and thus face the consequences and fallout from saying anything. They can simply ignore it in order to get the message across. Whether it is intentional or not is completely irrelevant. Because the damage is done and no public excuse will ever change that fact.

 

The fact, that Linus and Luke, BOTH, refuse to accept any criticism means they consider themselves ABOVE the criticism of their viewers. They do not care about you, me, or anybody elses opinion. For aslong as they make money, we are irrelevant. The problem is, once a company start losing enough customers to severely hurt their bottom line, it is nigh impossible to regain said customers. For them it will simply be "too little, far too late". And in this case, in regards to criticism, it IS far too late. LMG has seen constructive, and bullshit, criticism for various flaws and errors since 2014. Yet to this date, i have only seen them annotate videos regarding products that were supplied to them for review. Any other "investigative" video, they do not care. They do not care if their content, testing or conclusions are bad -> because they have some of the crispest, best edited footage and biggest followings within tech on youtube.

 

Linus Media Group, does not consider negative criticism worthwhile. regardless of the format. They only care when the criticism comes from a reputable source, or from a tech company.

Remember Louis Rossmans video to Linus? Louis said he was genuinely surprised that Linus responded at all. What does that tell you? When a professional repair-man doesn't think a tech media outlet cares about his opinion, that says something. To me it says alot about said media outlets attitude.

 

Then there is the case of "showing AMD content".... if you do not tell people there is a competing product, there will be no competittion. The end. 

If nobody knows there is a safe alternative, nobody is going to look for one. Because whatever alternative they find, may not have enough "reputation" to be "safe buying".

 

Thing is, neither Linus nor Luke will bother to read this post. Nor are they genuinely interested in any of our opinions. They only care about their revenue, being factually correct isn't needed aslong as enough gullible viewers doesn't question them. And how many would? Most people view their content due to the entertainment value. Not for the information.

 

But for a lot of non-hardcore enthusiasts this channel is also their source of tech news, and as such it is hugely important that said news aren't false, but instead sincere, investigative and factually correct.

 

When you have a channel as big as Linus Media Group has, it takes only ONE bad video to ruin 20,000 good counter-arguments. Because after all, the man with 3.6 million subs said YOU are wrong. And who can argue with that? Who can argue against a man who has more people voulentarily following him, then there is people living in many smaller countries?! Who can argue against him? Who can win? Noone. Because it's not I, nor you, who have 3.6 million people backing you. We may have 20-100 people agreeing with us, but that isn't even 0.1% of the number of people who may actually believe Linus's word.

 

If you do not accept criticism when it is you who are in the wrong, even in the face of clear evidence, then you are no longer interested in the truth. And if the truth is no longer in your interest, you should no longer share your opinion publicly. Because in that case, your words, your opinions, is detrimental to human society as a whole. 

 

 

[Slick]

7 hours ago, Prysin said:

The fact that you say something like this, means you are incapable of understanding the issue at hand on your own.

Insult and attack myself and Linus all you want - Please don't insult other members of the forum.
 

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@LinusTech and @Slick constantly talk about "i hope we get some competition" "this should bring some competition to intel" "intel has been lazy because of no competition" "Nvidia can only get away with bullshit like forced log-in for GFE due to lack of competition" and so on. We hear it all the time, infact i dare argue that you hear them say something akin to this every 3rd WAN show since 2014 at the very least.

 But when the competitor finally DO start being competitive. When the time comes for creating some fuzz and celebrating ACTUAL competition, Linus and Luke, BOTH, actively ignore the competitor. And i mean IGNORE. It's not that they do not know that AMD has a competitive product, it's that they do not really care. Because the product may not be interesting to them personally. THAT is an issue.

I'm not exactly sure what product you are speaking of currently. 

 

If you're talking about Ryzen, or Vega.. I could be wrong.. But I can't think of any dedicated videos we've made about an event we didn't go to since like.. late 2013, see below. 

 

Reading the comments would make it seem that the video was great.. But it didn't do that well overall and I don't think we ever followed up with another video like it because of that.

 

If you look at our coverage of Intel or Nvidia you'll see that we don't cover them unless we have a product on hand or we are personally at a show. Why didn't we go to the AMD event then? We weren't invited. As you can see in Paul's video, also linked below because Paul is a badass, he was the only YouTuber there. I'm rather certain that's because he was the only YouTuber invited. Why AMD would do this I can't possibly know. You can point at us all you want but they didn't invite other YouTubers either.

 

We have already mapped out a heavily involved content plan for the launch of both of these products, hopefully your voice will be just as loud at that time.

 

 

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Beause despite me owning a Radeon GPU, i would very much like to know what good G-sync monitors are out there, so i can see what is possible in terms of monitor tech. Or what new feature Nvidia has in their GPUs, or the next gen Intel HD iGPU. These are things that are relevant for me as a consumer in order to make a decision. Brand loyalty doesn't benefit my wallet.

 

Likewise, whilst ZEN isnt directly for me, as i have a 4790k, i still want to know about it. And so do a lot of others.

Good on ya! I like to think this is the position most our viewers are in. Interested in technology specifically more than necessarily just one brand. I don't think it's a problem to support a specific brand.. I for one am a huge fan of Nintendo products in general.. But one should stay interested in other things as well and not close off other options.

 

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By actively ignoring, they are stating that "you shouldnt care". They do not need to say it out loud and thus face the consequences and fallout from saying anything. They can simply ignore it in order to get the message across. Whether it is intentional or not is completely irrelevant. Because the damage is done and no public excuse will ever change that fact.

We are not "Actively Ignoring". We have spoken about these products a number of times on WAN, We don't do videos unless we're at the event or have the product in hand, neither of these things are seeded to reviewers yet.. Or at least not to us.

 

No, we're really not saying you shouldn't care.. We're saying the words we say on WAN. Please see below for the most recent WAN show. It was the first real topic we had on the show.

 

- "From the look of things, there is nothing to be disappointed about spec wise"

- "They have done some demos and some comparisons that lead us to believe it is something similar to broadwell in terms of performance per clock which would make this a VERY compelling CPU if it comes in at the right kind of price"

- "It's fast and it's power efficient.. and as long as they've got that stuff nailed down, if the price is right, they've got my attention"

- **Then he goes on to defend their lack of thunderbolt**

 

I'm not sure what else you're looking for at this point.. Those are rather positive comments.

 

I'm not interested in a public excuse, for I do not think we have done anything wrong. We have done things wrong in the past, we've been making videos for a long time.. Would be rather hard not to.. I do believe we have addressed it, in some way, in at least the majority of those cases. 

 

 

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The fact, that Linus and Luke, BOTH, refuse to accept any criticism means they consider themselves ABOVE the criticism of their viewers. They do not care about you, me, or anybody elses opinion. For aslong as they make money, we are irrelevant. The problem is, once a company start losing enough customers to severely hurt their bottom line, it is nigh impossible to regain said customers. For them it will simply be "too little, far too late". And in this case, in regards to criticism, it IS far too late. LMG has seen constructive, and bullshit, criticism for various flaws and errors since 2014. Yet to this date, i have only seen them annotate videos regarding products that were supplied to them for review. Any other "investigative" video, they do not care. They do not care if their content, testing or conclusions are bad -> because they have some of the crispest, best edited footage and biggest followings within tech on youtube.

We do care. 

 

Literally in this video I point out that we did "Some pretty shit coverage of the Oculus topic from last week". Then I go on to roughly explain what we got wrong, why it matters, etc. Was it the BEST follow up? No. There was a power outage at work and it was a scramble to get the daily video out for that friday let alone actually get the WAN show working at my house.. Oh I also had pneumonia.

 

There are examples of Linus addressing issues in a very public manner as well, just as they're not literally me doing it, I don't remember where they are.

 

Thanks for the complements on our footage, we have always worked really hard to make sure our videos are epic not only in content but in visual, and more recently, audio quality as well.. Good to hear that it seems to translate even among the negativity.

 

 

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Linus Media Group, does not consider negative criticism worthwhile. regardless of the format. They only care when the criticism comes from a reputable source, or from a tech company.

Remember Louis Rossmans video to Linus? Louis said he was genuinely surprised that Linus responded at all. What does that tell you? When a professional repair-man doesn't think a tech media outlet cares about his opinion, that says something. To me it says alot about said media outlets attitude

My previous response, showing how I directly addressed someones comment on reddit.. Not even on our forums or YT page.. Shows that this is not actually true.

 

Also the comment about Louis Rossman is odd, considering we did respond.. It's unfortunate that he didn't think we cared about his opinion.. But we did.. I'd rather look at what happened than what someone thought MIGHT happen.

 

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Then there is the case of "showing AMD content".... if you do not tell people there is a competing product, there will be no competittion. The end. 

If nobody knows there is a safe alternative, nobody is going to look for one. Because whatever alternative they find, may not have enough "reputation" to be "safe buying"

Just a few random things that came up when searching AMD on LTT's youtube page. I believe I had addressed Vega and Zen enough up above.

 

 

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Thing is, neither Linus nor Luke will bother to read this post. Nor are they genuinely interested in any of our opinions. They only care about their revenue, being factually correct isn't needed aslong as enough gullible viewers doesn't question them. And how many would? Most people view their content due to the entertainment value. Not for the information.

 

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But for a lot of non-hardcore enthusiasts this channel is also their source of tech news, and as such it is hugely important that said news aren't false, but instead sincere, investigative and factually correct.

I agree.

 

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When you have a channel as big as Linus Media Group has, it takes only ONE bad video to ruin 20,000 good counter-arguments. Because after all, the man with 3.6 million subs said YOU are wrong. And who can argue with that? Who can argue against a man who has more people voulentarily following him, then there is people living in many smaller countries?! Who can argue against him? Who can win? Noone. Because it's not I, nor you, who have 3.6 million people backing you. We may have 20-100 people agreeing with us, but that isn't even 0.1% of the number of people who may actually believe Linus's word.

Backing/Subscribing != Agreeing. This is an important point. I actually HOPE that people that subscribe to us don't agree with EVERYTHING we say.. I'm trying to foster an informed audience with their own decision making skills.. Not indoctrinate opinions.

 

Apparently, again looking at things I have said above.. The people that can win range all the way from an amazingly skilled electronics repair man with a youtube channel and a VERY solid following to some random dude on reddit.

 

Also Subscribers != Views but that's rather unimportant for the current discussion so.. Moving on.

 

Quote

If you do not accept criticism when it is you who are in the wrong, even in the face of clear evidence, then you are no longer interested in the truth. And if the truth is no longer in your interest, you should no longer share your opinion publicly. Because in that case, your words, your opinions, is detrimental to human society as a whole. 

Read above.. I guess

 

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All in all, the only thing I have to add is that this isn't new. We can't spend literally all of our time reading and publicly addressing every single piece of criticism that comes to us. We simply don't have enough hours in the day to do that. We have a large and passionate following.. Yourself included.. Which means we we have a large amount of people aggressively attacking AND aggressively defending what we say and do. Responding to this post has taken up a significant amount of time. I may not be able to respond many more times because of that. This does not mean your voice isn't heard.. It means I'm working on other things. We take CONSTRUCTIVE criticism very seriously.. But we also need to move forward and can't constantly be addressing the past.

 

I'm sorry our coverage of AMD has offended you - Hopefully our videos following the launch of Vega and Zen satisfy you.

[Space Reptile]

On 18.12.2016 at 4:34 AM, HKZeroFive said:

Basically these websites/channels:

Only GamersNexus and Digital Foundry have actual YouTube channels but they're good if you want a decent insight into a certain product.

 

I also forgot to add PCPer to that list. They're good as well.

honestly AdoredTV is a decend  newcomer who likes to do some research , can recommend 

[HKZeroFive]

8 hours ago, Space Reptile said:

honestly AdoredTV is a decend  newcomer who likes to do some research , can recommend 

I'll be honest with you, I don't like him. His preference (or 'bias' as some people see it) for AMD is quite clear... and ever since those Master Plan videos, I tend to avoid him as a whole.

 

I mean, he makes decent and valid points now and again, but how can you take him seriously if he tweets stuff like this?

 

[Space Reptile]

4 minutes ago, HKZeroFive said:

but how can you take him seriously if he tweets stuff like this?

true , but some of his vids are interesting , like the whole pascal = maxwell at 2ghz thing was pretty interesting 

[Prysin]

1 hour ago, Slick said:

I'm sorry our coverage of AMD has offended you - Hopefully our videos following the launch of Vega and Zen satisfy you.

i'm not really offended by it as much as i am gravely disappointed in it. I don't rely on LMG for news, since... before you moved really.

 

in all honesty, the videos you link is but the few positives in a sea of dissappointment. 

 

I would argue that it is "your" (read: LMGs) unwillingness to adress the past that is the bigger issue here. Take a couple of examples.

 

The RAM speed video -> proven wrong by Digital Foundry, @MageTank and others. It is still being used ALL over the internet as a "valid" counterargument, despite clear evidence for it being wrong exists. LMGs ONE video is still to this day destroying every argument or even initiative to test out memory speeds. That is how much power you have. That video is what? 2 years old? Not a single annotation about it being wrong. But who cares now. The damage is done, and even if you take it down now, somebody somewhere will have a downloaded version that will be reuploaded in order to keep posting it. you fucked up. You were told for two years that you fucked up. Now you have ruined a discussion for years to come with ONE video. This is the power your company have, yet nobody has bothered to acknowledge this. 

 

 

The Razer Blade videos. Except the last one, all of them seem to endorse a product that is absolutely ridiculous. Sure they are a technical achievement in their own right, but at what cost? at what cost? exceptionally high thermals that sit right under throttling temps, uncomfortably hot exteriors, ridiculously tiny batteries... The Blades is more of a fitness device then a laptop, as you have to run from outlet to outlet. But not once, not once is any technical info about these problems added in with a annotation. They are glossed over repeatedly. Despite there being more sensible, less hot, cheaper products from other manufactures that show you EXACTLY how you can do it in a sensible way. Yes they are much less exciting then the Blades. Much uglier too often, but i digress.

 

 

To adress YOUR workshop videos Luke, half of them is half-arsed, the other ones are outright pointless. Infact there is so many separate issues i don't have enough lifetime to list them all. But most of said issues boil down to what appears as lazyness. And while i can appreciate that you took the effort, i'd prefer that you were properly thorough or didn't do it at all. Because god knows how much company money and how many minutes of the viewers lifespan you have wasted with a "it depends"... And often, if you had changed your methodology you would have gotten a answer.

 

I think honestly that may be the biggest flaw of LMGs videos. The attitude that "it is good enough". You no longer seem to strive for excellence. Which is sad, and it shows. You wonder why people say there is a quality issue? It is a issue in quality of content, not quality of picture.

 

Please go watch your OWN videos from 2013 and 2014. The video quality was worse, ok, but you clearly was more thorough. You clearly took into account the finer details, and this is what caused the hard-core enthusiasts to follow you.

 

and let us adress AMD coverage. Shall we?

Out of ALL LTT build guides, or ridiculous builds, the amount of rigs where you suggest AMD vs Nvidia, even in the cases where the 300 series was a better value over the 900 series, you still consistently displayed the 900 series from Nvidia. Was this paid? was it an unconcious move? who knows.

Hell worst part was when LTT tried to explain some AMD feature, i cannot remember which video on top of my head, but you continued to use a Nvidia GPU stock photo during the explanation. That is just rude to the brand(s). No wonder you didnt get invited.

 

The whole fiasko with the recent cheap korean monitor. What kinda behavior is that? That is a clear insult to the AMD brand, again, no wonder you didn't get invited. And you'd also be wrong that a AMD card cannot get 100 FPS at 3440x1440p, i happen to own that card, it's called the R9 295x2. Yes it is a dual GPU card. Yes it is no longer in sale. But there IS a AMD product that will deliver the required FPS. 

 

The whole point of Freesync and G-sync is to deliver the best possible viewing experience. So why do anyone care if the GPUs can hit 100 FPS? It is the lowest FPS at which Freesync is active which is the most crucial. That is where you NEED these technologies. Again, the minimus, the "worst case", is why these technologies exist. 

 

Honestly, do you - Luke -  not see that the actions LTT are making, perhaps they arent an issue on their own, but pile them together and you get a larger collective issue. Perhaps it isnt intentional, but who cares? you are doing these things, making these decisions, saying these words. So who CARES, of the why. Noone.

All we, the viewers, subscribers, fans etc... care about is you guys showing caution with your influence, for quite some time, you haven't done that.

 

 

Then it is your testing methodology. I can understand the fact that you have time constraints, i can respect that, but why are you still focusing on average FPS? It is a pointless metric. We both know that the only indicators of user experience is the minimums. Hopefully, thanks to AMDs OCAT TOOL you may finally start displaying Frame-Times. Which is the gold standard to illustrate user experience.

 

 

 

[MageTank]

12 minutes ago, Prysin said:

The RAM speed video -> proven wrong by Digital Foundry, @MageTank and others. It is still being used ALL over the internet as a "valid" counterargument, despite clear evidence for it being wrong exists. LMGs ONE video is still to this day destroying every argument or even initiative to test out memory speeds. That is how much power you have. That video is what? 2 years old? Not a single annotation about it being wrong. But who cares now. The damage is done, and even if you take it down now, somebody somewhere will have a downloaded version that will be reuploaded in order to keep posting it. you fucked up. You were told for two years that you fucked up. Now you have ruined a discussion for years to come with ONE video. This is the power your company have, yet nobody has bothered to acknowledge this. 

To be fair, it's not hard to counter that video in an argument. I simply tell people to test this for themselves, and they often change their minds. Simple methodology is: test JEDEC speeds, then load faster XMP, then test again. Monitor minimum framerates of the before and after result, and compare. Bonus points if you run the tests multiple times to ensure it's not a fluke. 

 

The biggest reason people don't see much of a difference with average framerates, is that ram speed only really helps with average framerates in situations with extremely high CPU overhead (high end GPU at lower resolutions, or using weaker CPU's in general). I can say though, using a 4.5ghz 6700k, I still see a dramatic difference in minimum framerates on specific titles when going from 2133 to 3200. Going from 3200 to 3600 doesn't yield much of a difference for my setup though. 

 

@Slick I don't know if you will read this or not, but you've been wanting a workshop video to test, right? Perhaps revisit the memory speed test, using modern hardware, across different CPU's and GPU configurations, and monitor the minimum framerates (the most important framerate). If it proves the memory overclocking community wrong, then so be it. However, if it turns out to actually aid in performance, don't you think that's information that your audience will greatly appreciate? If my word is not sufficient (and believe me, I would not expect you to just take the word of a random guy on the internet) perhaps you can look through this old (yet still updated) thread from OCN:

 

http://www.overclock.net/t/1487162/an-independent-study-does-the-speed-of-ram-directly-affect-fps-during-high-cpu-overhead-scenarios

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Prysin said:

And you'd also be wrong that a AMD card cannot get 100 FPS at 3440x1440p, i happen to own that card, it's called the R9 295x2. Yes it is a dual GPU card. Yes it is no longer in sale. But there IS a AMD product that will deliver the required FPS. 

Which titles can you get a consistent 100FPS? As a dual 290X owner that has them water cooled + OC running 2560x1600 I sure as heck do not get 100FPS in any major title of the last year, not without lowering graphical settings from ultra.

 

While yes I did find it disappointing that in a monitor review freesync wasn't tested it's not a big deal to me, not really. So long as there is a video explaining what freesync is and demonstrating it that is enough information on top of the review, it has the feature and the feature has, or hasn't, been shown to work. I also do not think anyone that brought two 290X's (295) at launch are realistically going to be buying a cheapo monitor, I also don't think they will buy a Dell U3014 like I did. Quite frankly too, and this is my personal preference, I would rather buy a higher quality monitor that is colour accurate with even brightness/darkness than have freesync. I can live with tearing but I can't live with rubbish picture quality.

 

We all have different wants and needs but the vast majority of people are plug and play, never go in to the graphics settings of a game unless the resolution default is incorrect and don't even look at frame rates ever.

 

As for the points brought up by you and others about lack of in depth analysis in videos, yes I agree with that. There is an issue in regards to this, viewer demographic. Are the videos being made for the majority, plug and play, or for people like me, you and other enthusiasts? What people need from videos who are part of these groups is different, so different in fact that I would say to cater for both would require dedicated channels.

 

Linus Tech Tips should be for the masses and as it quite literally says in the name is only tips, which is why I think the videos are kept short and non in depth. Youtube algorithms play a huge part in that also along with viewer statistics. All things covered in WAN shows before.

 

If there were to be a channel for enthusiasts (in depth analysis) the production schedule would have to be much longer, 1 video per month max and only if there is a video worth doing. These would also not be able to interfere with the main channel schedule and would clearly be riding on the back of it because the viewership just won't be there to self sustain such a channel, not with the large number of staff LMG has. I would also consider having that channel interact more directly with the community through the forums during the production of the videos so perceived issues could be addresses before the video comes out. Whether that is a good idea or not I don't know, that puts a lot of trust in the community and a lot of burned on LMG to entertain ideas/requests by using real company employee time.

[MageTank]

23 minutes ago, leadeater said:

If there were to be a channel for enthusiasts (in depth analysis) the production schedule would have to be much longer, 1 video per month max and only if there is a video worth doing. These would also not be able to interfere with the main channel schedule and would clearly be riding on the back of it because the viewership just won't be there to self sustain such a channel, not with the large number of staff LMG has. I would also consider having that channel interact more directly with the community through the forums during the production of the videos so perceived issues could be addresses before the video comes out. Whether that is a good idea or not I don't know, that puts a lot of trust in the community and a lot of burned on LMG to entertain ideas/requests by using real company employee time.

This is kind of what I want out of the Workshop series, and I believe is what @Slick tries to achieve with said series. Community presents a long standing saying (or myth) and he sets out to prove it true or false. Perhaps asking the community for different variables and testing methodology before hand, and testing each and every claim made about a specific subject, to see if certain use scenarios benefit or not from any given test. I know that as an enthusiast, I paid more attention to that series specifically because it's what we all grew up hearing when building our PC's.

 

I would also like these tests to be redone periodically if evidence comes out later in the future, that potentially changes the verdict of an older video. Memory speed for example, has been showing up more often in AAA titles to be a huge boon with minimum framerates. Their original testing methodology did not test this, and the machine they used was primarily bottlenecked by the GPU (GTX 660 Ti with copious amounts of AA on a demanding title). Nowadays, we have competent CPU's and GPU's, but poorly programmed applications that often make the CPU the bottleneck in certain areas of a game, regardless of the setup. This is where the faster ram steps in to alleviate some of the issues. 

 

I know that they feel they might get flak, for releasing the same video twice, but as time goes on, things tend to change. It's nice to get these periodic updates to older videos, to see whether or not things hold true over time. 

[Scitesh]

21 hours ago, dizmo said:

https://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-DT-990-Pro-250-Professional-Acoustically-Applications/dp/B0011UB9CQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482379864&sr=8-1&keywords=dt990

 

$125

$91 Shipping

[AlTech]

6 hours ago, Slick said:

I'm not exactly sure what product you are speaking of currently. 

They're referring to AMD products in general.

 

Linus did a review of a Korean Monitor which supported Freesync. Linus did not attempt to use or talk about support with an AMD GPU as an unbiased reviewer would.

 

Later he tried to justify this by saying that the majority of people wouldn't be using and AMD GPU if they were even using a powerful enough AMD GPU at all.

 

This is wrong and as a reviewer he was wrong. Showing the use of an Nvidia GPU ALL THE TIME in videos which don't require an Nvidia GPU also goes a long way. You guys are biased. If you weren't then you would have no issue using AMD GPUs in videos like the desk PC or in case reviews. Instead you are actively showing off Nvidia GPUs. This may not be intentional but the results are dramatic.

 

6 hours ago, Slick said:

Good on ya! I like to think this is the position most our viewers are in. Interested in technology specifically more than necessarily just one brand. I don't think it's a problem to support a specific brand.. I for one am a huge fan of Nintendo products in general.. But one should stay interested in other things as well and not close off other options.

That doesn't mean that your channel should be littered with Nintendo content. Just how just because you really like Nvidia GPUs, you show AMD GPUs the minimum amount possible.

6 hours ago, Slick said:

We are not "Actively Ignoring".

So what is it then?  Blatant ignorance? Stupidity? Taking on extra money from Nvidia?

 

Why are you so heavily leaning towards Nvidia and not being unbiased.

6 hours ago, Slick said:

We have spoken about these products a number of times on WAN,

Don't you get it? It's not about whether or not you speak about them or show them off.

 

It's about HOW you do it.

6 hours ago, Slick said:

We don't do videos unless we're at the event or have the product in hand, neither of these things are seeded to reviewers yet.. Or at least not to us.

This is completely fine and perfectly normal.

6 hours ago, Slick said:

No, we're really not saying you shouldn't care.. We're saying the words we say on WAN. Please see below for the most recent WAN show. It was the first real topic we had on the show.

Again, this isn't about you saying something. This is about you doing things.

 

When Ryzen officially comes out, make a build log with their CPU and GPU instead of always doing one with Intel + Nvidia.

6 hours ago, Slick said:

I'm not sure what else you're looking for at this point.. Those are rather positive comments.

Actually they aren't. They're borderline negative comments coming from somebody who has a bias towards Intel and Nvidia.

6 hours ago, Slick said:

I'm not interested in a public excuse, for I do not think we have done anything wrong.

You haven't done anything inherently wrong as such but your ethics and behavior are questionable.

6 hours ago, Slick said:

We do care. 

Prove it. Remake the RX 480 vs GTX 1060 video and show off how the RX 480 destroys the GTX 1060 with the new edition of AMD drivers.

6 hours ago, Slick said:

There are examples of Linus addressing issues in a very public manner as well, just as they're not literally me doing it, I don't remember where they are.

Linus addresses issues in an anything but public manner. But that's a topic for another day.

6 hours ago, Slick said:

Thanks for the complements on our footage, we have always worked really hard to make sure our videos are epic not only in content but in visual, and more recently, audio quality as well.. Good to hear that it seems to translate even among the negativity.

If I have any leftover money this holiday I'll be sure to subscribe to Floatplane. This is unrelated but could you add pre-paid FloatPlane Digital Gift Cards so that we can buy 6 months or a year of floatplane in advanced? I'd really love support for that.

 

Also, if you see Nick Light could you ask him to check his PMs? I've sent him a business enquiry via PM (even though I probably should have done it by email)