Project CARS devs address AMD performance issues, AMD drivers to blame entirely, PhysX runs on CPU only, no GPU involvement whatsoever.

[Majestic]

What proof do you have thats a driver issue?

 

I am not insulting you I am just saying that you have no basis for your affirmations and you are criticizing people for having no basis for their affirmations.

 

Because the rest of the hardware is the same, it affects all AMD cards and they appear to be bottlenecked at the same point, regardless of their personal capabilities. Meaning a CPU bottleneck ealier than the nvidia cards. What else could it be...

[spartaman64]

Umm what.

Knights Landing is where Intel starts, as Nvidia and AMD patents expire you'll see Intel move into dGPUs even more.

Intel is very much competing with Nvidia and AMD.

i dont see any plans for intel to make discrete gpus. intel gpus might be competing with like an old nvidia gt 320 but amd and nvidia are competing on a much wider gpu market segment 

[zappian]

Once those patents expire it'll be a very interesting GPU landscape. I can't wait until we get some more proprietary stuff. I want GameWorks to be in EVERY game.

 

Just a wandering thought here but you know there's no reason for X person to call out Y person if Y person has the same exact reason to call out X person. It's a circle of complaining that gets no where.

 

I edited my post meanwhile.

[spartaman64]

Because the rest of the hardware is the same, it affects all AMD cards and they appear to be bottlenecked at the same point, regardless of their personal capabilities. Meaning a CPU bottleneck, ealier than the nvidia cards. What else could it be...

physx doesnt run on amd gpus it gets handed to the cpu

[Roland]

well you can understand amd's reluctance to pay a fee to nvidia for every gpu they sell

 

That's AMDs choice to make. And in the end, that is AMD hurting their users performance, not Nvidia. Nvidia nor any company should be OBLIGATED to give away stuff to their competitor. If that were the case, I can promise you, companies would close up shop and cease to make products. Should Intel give me all the information how they make chips, so I can enter the business? And I mean every tech spec. and drawing, code, everything? Should AMD tell Nvidia about how they created their latest GPU that beats Nvidia? 

[Victorious Secret]

Once those patents expire it'll be a very interesting GPU landscape. I can't wait until we get some more proprietary stuff. I want GameWorks to be in EVERY game.

Just a wandering thought here but you know there's no reason for X person to call out Y person if Y person has the same exact reason to call out X person. It's a circle of complaining that gets no where.

It's almost as if it's a...circular jerk.

Great Scott!

Intel is going to light a fire under NVIDIAS ass (AMD if they're even around in 4 years time). Yes, I want the worlds largest fab owner to start making GPUs. My all Int system can be a reality!

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

 

 

 

 

 

Oh god, that one made me chuckle. Good shit.

 

 

 

Ehh no, that's just me interpreting the benchmarks. At lower settings, you can see nvidia cards really surpass AMD cards. That means the drivers of nvidia cards are more efficient and generate more drawcalls with less overhead. The fact you had good results with the 270X, is because you had an Intel chip that has enough IPC to negate that overhead.

 

 

 

Why would there be AMD logo's. Brand equality? Or maybe for every one billboard of Nvidia, there should be 0.77 billboards of AMD. Get this SJW narrative out of here please, go on...git.

 

Honestly though, this looks very much like SJW/Feminism arguments. It started with something about politics/economy and ended up with vague anekdotes, red herrings, cherrypicking and namecalling. The narrative or argument you're making, is not clear. Please try and do a better job of making yourself clear. Thanks.

 

 

i'm sure Burger king and Gillette sponsored Burnout so it would sell their products

also it feautes nvidia billboard, so it won't run properly on AMD because nvidia sponsored it right ? and the game would run better if people buy their product also? sure it must be very anti-competitive right ?

 

have i ever told you the definition of insanity ? 

[spartaman64]

Once those patents expire it'll be a very interesting GPU landscape. I can't wait until we get some more proprietary stuff. I want GameWorks to be in EVERY game.

 

Just a wandering thought here but you know there's no reason for X person to call out Y person if Y person has the same exact reason to call out X person. It's a circle of complaining that gets no where.

i think open source projects benefit us more than proprietary stuff because if nvidia has their proprietary gameworks and if gaming evolved has their own proprietary api  then you have to make separate amd and nvidia riges if you want your games to run well

[AlwaysFSX]

i dont see any plans for intel to make discrete gpus. intel gpus might be competing with like an old nvidia gt 320 but amd and nvidia are competing on a much wider gpu market segment 

It'll has been working on them for a ridiculous amount of time..?

 

I edited my post meanwhile.

I see that now. You make a valid point but all of these points made are just one facet to the entire problem. None of them go together to make a clear answer of who might be right, who might be wrong.

 

Having PhysX run on the CPU shouldn't gimp AMD cards at all because CPUs are fast enough to do the calculations. So there's some other problem at play here.

 

physx doesnt run on amd gpus it gets handed to the cpu

Varies by implementation of PhysX.

 

Intel is going to light a fire under NVIDIAS ass (AMD if they're even around in 4 years time). Yes, I want the worlds largest fab owner to start making GPUs. My all Int system can be a reality!

It is GOING to happen. And I will thoroughly enjoy the day Intel has competitive cards to buy. They'll be at a premium, no doubt, but will handily be the best performers on the market.

[AlwaysFSX]

i think open source projects benefit us more than proprietary stuff because if nvidia has their proprietary gameworks and if gaming evolved has their own proprietary api  then you have to make separate amd and nvidia riges if you want games to run well

Any chance you can clear that thought up to make slightly more sense?

[spartaman64]

Any chance you can clear that thought up to make slightly more sense?

for example if amd went proprietary then gaming evolved titles like crysis will run poorly on nvidia gpus and if a game is heavily invested in gameworks like this game it will run poorly on amd gpus and if you want to play both crysis and this game you are out of luck unless you build an nvidia rig for this game and an amd rig for crysis 

[Humbug]

How come everybody is so sure that Intel can march into the discrete GPU market and beat AMD/Nvidia? Because of their fabrication advantage?

[Majestic]

How come everybody is so sure that Intel can march into the discrete GPU market and beat AMD/Nvidia? Because of their fabrication advantage?

 

I'm not, I don't think Intel isn't really interested in the discrete market. If they're ever to be a threat to either AMD or Nvidia, it's with APU's/SoC's.

[spartaman64]

How come everybody is so sure that Intel can march into the discrete GPU market and beat AMD/Nvidia? Because of their fabrication advantage?

if intel is making discrete gpus they need to hire some nvidia/amd driver makers because games that come out broken rely on the drivers to fix things and amd/nvidia driver makers have that experience in fixing game after game in drivers

[AxelRantila]

How come everybody is so sure that Intel can march into the discrete GPU market and beat AMD/Nvidia? Because of their fabrication advantage?

Maybe not in games. But for things like scientific compute I don't see anything that would stop them

[AlwaysFSX]

for example if amd went proprietary then gaming evolved titles like crysis will run poorly on nvidia gpus and if a game is heavily invested in gameworks like this game it will run poorly on amd gpus and if you want to play both crysis and this game you are out of luck unless you build an nvidia rig for this game and an amd rig for crysis 

Again, this isn't a problem of proprietary design, it's a problem of developers not implementing a global solution that will work on other hardware.

 

I play a stupid amount of Warframe, I get PhysX-like effects because the developers have implemented a solution for us non-PhysX users. Now all of us get to enjoy the pretty particles. Is this an Nvidia problem? No. It's a developer problem because they don't create an alternate solution.

 

 

As I told @zappian, having physics run on the CPU is not supposed to be a problem for AMD's cards. There is something else at play here that might reduce the performance.

[SurvivorNVL]

Man, this thread is the most lively as of late.  Even if there's a lot of angry discussion back and forth--still rather interesting to see something go on for ten days(almost ten, but you get it), amass 15,000 views, and nearly 800 comments.

[Majestic]

if intel is making discrete gpus they need to hire some nvidia/amd driver makers because games that come out broken rely on the drivers to fix things and amd/nvidia driver makers have that experience in fixing game after game in drivers

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation

 

 

Man, this thread is the most lively as of late.  Even if there's a lot of angry discussion back and forth--still rather interesting to see something go on for ten days(almost ten, but you get it), amass 15,000 views, and nearly 800 comments.

 

You can leave your high horse at the stable.

[Roland]

if intel is making discrete gpus they need to hire some nvidia/amd driver makers because games that come out broken rely on the drivers to fix things and amd/nvidia driver makers have that experience in fixing game after game in drivers

 

It's not just games that are "broken" that need fixing. Lets take a look at something that isn't popular. Prepar3d by Lockheed Martin. Nvidia is finally releasing a driver in the coming weeks to fix a lighting issue, and SLI profiling. Neither of those the Developer could actually fix, and in the case of the lighting issue, it required a deeper level of fix than LM could actually do. Unless of course, you are saying LM is lazy and can't fix their Sim they are selling to Professional Companies and the US Government. And the SLI Profile, only Nvidia can do.

[spartaman64]

Again, this isn't a problem of proprietary design, it's a problem of developers not implementing a global solution that will work on other hardware.

 

I play a stupid amount of Warframe, I get PhysX-like effects because the developers have implemented a solution for us non-PhysX users. Now all of us get to enjoy the pretty particles. Is this an Nvidia problem? No. It's a developer problem because they don't create an alternate solution.

 

 

 

As I told @zappian, having physics run on the CPU is not supposed to be a problem for AMD's cards. There is something else at play here that might reduce the performance.

so developers have to do extra work and implement physx and amd's physics engine why cant there just be a single standard that both companies are using so the particle effects work for both amd and nvidia 

[AlwaysFSX]

It's not just games that are "broken" that need fixing. Lets take a look at something that isn't popular. Prepar3d by Lockheed Martin. Nvidia is finally releasing a driver in the coming weeks to fix a lighting issue, and SLI profiling. Neither of those the Developer could actually fix, and in the case of the lighting issue, it required a deeper level of fix than LM could actually do. Unless of course, you are saying LM is lazy and can't fix their Sim they are selling to Professional Companies and the US Government. And the SLI Profile, only Nvidia can do.

:lol:

 

You simply CAN'T use Prepar3d as an example. Ever. That game was broken when they ripped the code from FSX. It was such a pile from the beginning. All they've done is fixed the Fatal Error problem and added terrain under the water.

 

That was something that LM could have fixed instead of Nvidia but the game was a broken mess in the first place that it wasn't worth it.

[spartaman64]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation

 

 

 

You can leave your high horse at the stable.

 

sorry basically intel currently doesnt have the experience in making drivers for games

[AlwaysFSX]

so developers have to do extra work and implement physx and amd's physics engine why cant there just be a single standard that both companies are using so the particle effects work for both amd and nvidia 

No, you're missing the point. There's no reason to implement a different physics engine. PhysX as a physics engine works 100% fine. There is no reason to implement something else, can you read and understand that much?

 

Do you even know what we're all talking about? Because obviously you don't.

[spartaman64]

No, you're missing the point. There's no reason to implement a different physics engine. PhysX as a physics engine works 100% fine. There is no reason to implement something else, can you read and understand that much?

 

Do you even know what we're all talking about? Because obviously you don't.

it doesnt run on amd gpus i wouldnt count that as 100% fine i want something like tressfx where it can run on both gpus

[AlwaysFSX]

it doesnt run on amd gpus i wouldnt count that as 100% fine i want something like tressfx where it can run on both gpus

Yup, you have no clue what we're talking about.

 

PhysX ran as a physics engine (separate from particle PhysX) doesn't use AMD gpus but rather runs on the CPU. It has no impact on GPU performance unless the CPU can't calculate the physics fast enough as per every single other game that uses any physics engine. There is something else going on here that would make the game run worse on AMD cards THAT IS NOT PHYSICS.