Project CARS devs address AMD performance issues, AMD drivers to blame entirely, PhysX runs on CPU only, no GPU involvement whatsoever.

[Majestic]

nvidia released a driver and patched it and it uses directcompute which nvidia cards are bad at and openCL but if they make a card that is better at those than amd cards then tressfx will run better on nvidia

 

I'm sorry but what exactly is your argument here? And could you please use some interpunction, that might be part of the reason I'm having trouble making out an argument in your comments.

 

 

No one should be surprised at this point. Nvidia are just being a corporate bully, nothing more to it. Their proprietary implementation of everything they do only serves to hold the industry back, or keep things at a standstill while other companies like Intel and AMD figure out how to drive around Nvidia to keep moving forward (yes I know, car analogy in a Project Cars thread).

 

Although, if I'm not mistaken, didn't Nvidia open up physx source code to the public recently? That should help to some degree.

 

I rest my case. "Nvidia is evil corporate commander" narrative runs deep. Noone seems to understand how business works, and rather think in emotional victimhood ideologies. Please explain to me how AMD is moving the industry forward. What grand innovations have the recently brought out.

[Derangel]

 

Do you remember how well that feature ran on nvidia cards when the game launched? Don't cherrypick mate.

 

 

 

Noone is forcing them to do this, and noone is preventing developers from using their services. If the developers and/or market sways towards gameworks, that tells you something about the actual quality of the service.

 

 

Didn't the Project Cars devs say they tried to reach out to AMD to work with them and got no answer back? By all accounts Gaming Evolved was fine. AMD's team put effort into making sure the game performed well across the board and like with Nvidia's program helped make PC versions work. The issue isn't the quality of the service so much as AMD's general issues of the past months.

[spartaman64]

I'm sorry but what exactly is your argument here? And could you please use some interpunction, that might be part of the reason I'm having trouble making out an argument in your comments.

basically tressfx can run well on nvidia gpus if they choose to support some open APIs while physx can never run well on amd gpus

Didn't the Project Cars devs say they tried to reach out to AMD to work with them and got no answer back? By all accounts Gaming Evolved was fine. AMD's team put effort into making sure the game performed well across the board and like with Nvidia's program helped make PC versions work. The issue isn't the quality of the service so much as AMD's general issues of the past months.

i dont think there is anything amd can do to make it run well

[Majestic]

basically tressfx can run well on nvidia gpus if they choose to support some open APIs while physx can never run well on amd gpus 

 

I see what you're saying, but the problem is you're suggesting that nvidia creates these libraries to work like this JUST to exclude AMD. It could very well be that they believe the feature works better the way they designed it, especially for their own hardware. It would be really counterproductive to create software that runs poorly on their own hardware.

[kacper]

Am I crazy or did thread regarding GameWorks/Physx crippling AMD and older Nvida gpus got deleted?

[spartaman64]

Am I crazy or did thread regarding GameWorks/Physx crippling AMD and older Nvida gpus got deleted?

it got merged into this post

[zappian]

I see what you're saying, but the problem is you're suggesting that nvidia creates these libraries to work like this JUST to exclude AMD. It could very well be that they believe the feature works better the way they designed it, especially for their own hardware. It would be really counterproductive to create software that runs poorly on their own hardware.

 

They dont create these libraries JUST to exclude AMD.

 

On the filpside NVIDIA does a lot of things in their gameworks games to lets say distinguish NVIDIA cards , for example in the batman games they knew they had a better tesselation engine so they ramped up the tesselation to ridiculous levels to benefit their cards on benchmarks.

 

And on project cars a similar thing with physx appears to have been done.

 

And theres a lot of speculation going around that AMD doesnt get full acess to the proprietary gameworks lib making optimizations take more time and be quite more harder for them.

[Derangel]

i dont think there is anything amd can do to make it run well

 

If AMD had been involved from early on it might have been a different story. I don't like that games end up this way but if AMD is completely ignoring developer's wanting to work with them it's hard to put the blame entirely on Slightly Mad and Nvidia.

[spartaman64]

I see what you're saying, but the problem is you're suggesting that nvidia creates these libraries to work like this JUST to exclude AMD. It could very well be that they believe the feature works better the way they designed it, especially for their own hardware. It would be really counterproductive to create software that runs poorly on their own hardware.

what im complaining about is how closed off nvidia is and that hurts me with an nvidia gpu also because the nvidia drivers for linux do not work. every time i restart the computer im just greeted by my wallpaper and a mouse cursor and thats it i have to uninstall and reinstall the drivers 

[Humbug]

So what if PhysX is a superior choice than anything else out there?

Why not use it?

Because the target platform is pc, not nvidia. And because starting with half life 2 more than ten years ago many devs have proven capable of creating solutions for physics, particle effects, water etc solutions that perform well on any vendor hardware.

[Majestic]

They dont create these libraries JUST to exclude AMD.

 

On the filpside NVIDIA does a lot of things in their gameworks games to lets say distinguish NVIDIA cards , for example in the batman games they knew they had a better tesselation engine so they ramped up the tesselation to ridiculous levels to benefit their cards on benchmarks.

 

And on project cars a similar thing with physx appears to have been done.

 

And theres a lot of speculation going around that AMD doesnt get full acess to the proprietary gameworks lib making optimizations take more time and be quite more harder for them.

 

I know

 

You mean the developer did? Afaik nvidia doesn't develop games.

 

I'll take your word for it

 

because that would mean completely disclosing digital properties to the competitor. You can't ask companies to do this...

[spartaman64]

If AMD had been involved from early on it might have been a different story. I don't like that games end up this way but if AMD is completely ignoring developer's wanting to work with them it's hard to put the blame entirely on Slightly Mad and Nvidia.

i think they put physx into the engine then emailed amd and as soon as amd saw the email subject help physx not running well on your cards they were like nope nope nope *delete email*

[zappian]

I know

 

You mean the developer did? Afaik nvidia doesn't develop games.

 

I'll take your word for it

 

because that would mean completely disclosing digital properties to the competitor. You can't ask companies to do this...

 

I mean nvidia along with the developer because they work along side with them AFAIK .

 

Thats fine and all if they stopped throwing dirt and AMD saying they are incompetent with drivers .

[Tigerbomb8]

Not sure is this have been posted already, Its a good read and sums up the reason AMD has performance issues: http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/367qav/mark_my_word_if_we_dont_stop_the_nvidia_gameworks/

[Derangel]

i think they put physx into the engine then emailed amd and as soon as amd saw the email subject help physx not running well on your cards they were like nope nope nope *delete email*

 

An amusing image but more likely it just got lost in the turmoil of AMD's recent shake-ups and trying to figure out a new direction. Either that or for whatever reason AMD has decided to kill Gaming Evolved and is back to sitting on their ass and not working with developers.

[Roland]

I've stayed away from LTT Forum because it's a cesspool with the fanboys and the like. But what I've seen has made me create an account and reply.

 

1) No one knows that Nvidia paid them. Thats a wild accusation, and disgusting that you'd accuse someone or a company without proof.

 

2) The REASON Physx doesn't work on AMD isn't because of some Nvidia conspiracy, it has to do with Nvidia GPU design and how it works. It REQUIRES CUDA to work, which means AMD can't use it right this second. Not Nvidias fault, is it? Nvidia has said they wouldn't mind if AMD uses it, as long as they do the required stuff AND support it AND pay licensing fees.

 

3) Proprietary Software, APIs, Etc. Grow up, seriously people. This is what the real world is like, most companies don't give away their stuff for free and expect to do amazing in business. Look who is making money, and who isn't.

[Majestic]

I mean nvidia along with the developer because they work along side with them AFAIK .

 

Thats fine and all if they stopped throwing dirt and AMD saying they are incompetent with drivers .

 

That makes it impossible to determine who made the ultimate decision.

 

I'm perfectly fine with pointing out flaws in AMD's services or products, as long as it's warrented and not fanboyish slander. AMD's drivers have a lot of CPU overhead lately, even in non gameworks titles. That is something that is quite evident from benchmarks and thus hard to deny or label as biased.

[zappian]

I've stayed away from LTT Forum because it's a cesspool with the fanboys and the like. But what I've seen has made me create an account and reply.

 

1) No one knows that Nvidia paid them. Thats a wild accusation, and disgusting that you'd accuse someone or a company without proof.

 

[patrickjp93]

what im complaining about is how closed off nvidia is and that hurts me with an nvidia gpu also because the nvidia drivers for linux do not work. every time i restart the computer im just greeted by my wallpaper and a mouse cursor and thats it i have to uninstall and reinstall the drivers

Oh so I'm not the only one with that problem?! Ubuntu 14.04/14.10 did not like Nvidia's proprietary drivers at all for my GTX 570. I always ended up having to reinstall the OS. How do you reinstall the drivers if you can't get to desktop?

[zappian]

That makes it impossible to determine who made the ultimate decision.

 

I'm perfectly fine with pointing out flaws in AMD's services or products, as long as it's warrented and not fanboyish slander. AMD's drivers have a lot of CPU overhead lately, even in non gameworks titles. That is something that is quite evident from benchmarks and thus hard to deny or label as biased.

 

Says Euro Gamer and no one else on the internet.

 

You are forgetting I had an i3 and a 270x and I posted my benchmarks and they were quite exceptional for the setup.

 

I have felt the issues that euro gamer described and I read their article .

[Majestic]

 

 

 

Oh god, that one made me chuckle. Good shit.

 

 

Says Euro Gamer and no one else on the internet.

 

Ehh no, that's just me interpreting the benchmarks. At lower settings, you can see nvidia cards really surpass AMD cards. That means the drivers of nvidia cards are more efficient and generate more drawcalls with less overhead. The fact you had good results with the 270X, is because you had an Intel chip that has enough IPC to negate that overhead.

[spartaman64]

Oh so I'm not the only one with that problem?! Ubuntu 14.04/14.10 did not like Nvidia's proprietary drivers at all for my GTX 570. I always ended up having to reinstall the OS. How do you reinstall the drivers if you can't get to desktop?

i think you press alt f1 or something (not entirely sure which button) and that will drop you to just the terminal and you type in the command to remove all nvidia packages 

[Roland]

 

 -snip-

 

That is NOT proof. *rubs temple* Okay, prove to me how that proves that they were paid by Nvidia. How much did they get, and when?

 

What you are doing is making a huge assumption. Kinda like people in Ferguson; that racist white cop killed that unarmed black kid. Except that was a lie, but everyone KNEW that was a truth, hands up don't shoot!

 

When will people learn, making assumptions make you look like an ass in the end. Wait for proof!

[spartaman64]

That is NOT proof. *rubs temple* Okay, prove to me how that proves that they were paid by Nvidia. How much did they get, and when?

 

What you are doing is making a huge assumption. Kinda like people in Ferguson; that racist white cop killed that unarmed black kid. Except that was a lie, but everyone KNEW that was a truth, hands up don't shoot!

 

When will people learn, making assumptions make you look like an ass in the end. Wait for proof!

please dont bring politics into this and it wouldnt make sense to place ads if nvidia isnt paying them or maybe they are just big nvidia fanboys

[Majestic]

please dont bring politics into this and it wouldnt make sense to place ads if nvidia isnt paying them or maybe they are just big nvidia fanboys

 

That could just be part of the contract for using gameworks, or a way to lower the costs of using the service. Please don't bring fanboyism into this. 

 

 

Okay, prove to me how that proves that they were paid by Nvidia. How much did they get, and when?

 

As much as I agree to your sentiment, try and cool it a bit. Anyway, this would be information disclosed in an NDA