Project CARS devs address AMD performance issues, AMD drivers to blame entirely, PhysX runs on CPU only, no GPU involvement whatsoever.

[spartaman64]

That could just be part of the contract for using gameworks, or a way to lower the costs of using the service. Please don't bring fanboyism into this. 

other gamework games doesnt have nvidia plastered everywhere so if they are not fanboys its safe to assume they are paid

[Mattyd7829]

Even a discount is a form of payment.

[Majestic]

other gamework games doesnt have nvidia plastered everywhere so if they are not fanboys its safe to assume they are paid

 

Or they chose not to have them and pay the premium, or the fact that a racing game with billboards at the side lends itself more to productplacement and would thus be less obnoxious. It could be an hommage of the developers. You just don't know, and yet you're so convinced that you are. Why exactly?

 

I am speculating, but I know i'm speculating and i'm openly admitting to speculating. You're making alledged factual statements with nothing to back it up, see the difference? But i'm basing my speculations off of a general understanding of politics, economics and phsychology. I'm not getting the idea you're very well versed in these practices...

[patrickjp93]

please dont bring politics into this and it wouldnt make sense to place ads if nvidia isnt paying them or maybe they are just big nvidia fanboys

Actually every Nvidia Gameworks title has embedded Nvidia logos all over the place if you know what to look for. There's 0 proof Nvidia pays these studios off.

[spartaman64]

Or they chose not to have them and pay the premium, or the fact that a racing game with billboards at the side lends itself more to productplacement and would thus be less obnoxious. It could be an hommage of the developers. You just don't know, and yet you're so convinced that you are. Why exactly?

 

I am speculating, but I know i'm speculating and i'm openly admitting to speculating. You're making alledged factual statements with nothing to back it up, see the difference? But i'm basing my speculations off of a general understanding of politics, economics and phsychology. I'm not getting the idea you're very well versed in these practices...

not having to pay the premium is basically the same as getting paid

[Majestic]

not having to pay the premium is basically the same as getting paid

 

No, it most definitely is not. It would be a decision made by the developer, on their own terms. And nvidia would be lending them a discount on a payed service, meaning it would "hurt" them financially, but gain extra product placement. That is NOT the same as smacking a big bag of money on the table and saying "here is money, place ads".

[spartaman64]

Actually every Nvidia Gameworks title has embedded Nvidia logos all over the place if you know what to look for. There's 0 proof Nvidia pays these studios off.

i never saw them so they must have hid them 

[Roland]

please dont bring politics into this and it wouldnt make sense to place ads if nvidia isnt paying them or maybe they are just big nvidia fanboys

 

Actually, its not politics. Its called an example of what you are doing. You are following the same exact pattern. Looking at so called facts, and making up a theory to fit those facts. When instead you should look at the facts for the truth. A good person always gets all the information before making up their mind. For whatever reason, they put it in there, wouldn't you like to know why? Maybe they felt they were getting more support from Nvidia so they decided to showcase them. Maybe they got paid. Maybe they figured since they are the largest market share they deserved it. Maybe they needed something to fill the billboards and the only people that they could really get to agree in a major way is Nvidia. (You know how expensive it is to even show a real product on TV these days (unless its news)?). Who knows. But until you have more facts, what you have is a THEORY, not facts.

 

I am far from a fanboy of either side. I have cards going back years and years from both sides. I got whatever I wanted. I have CPUs from both sides. I am agnostic when it comes to most tech, except Roccat Keyboards and Mice. They are just my fav. since they keep innovating in my mind. Personal taste there. 

[spartaman64]

No, it most definitely is not.

what i didnt bribe the politician i just promised him a job in my corporation that pays millions 

[spartaman64]

Actually, its not politics. Its called an example of what you are doing. You are following the same exact pattern. Looking at so called facts, and making up a theory to fit those facts. When instead you should look at the facts for the truth. A good person always gets all the information before making up their mind. For whatever reason, they put it in there, wouldn't you like to know why? Maybe they felt they were getting more support from Nvidia so they decided to showcase them. Maybe they got paid. Maybe they figured since they are the largest market share they deserved it. Maybe they needed something to fill the billboards and the only people that they could really get to agree in a major way is Nvidia. (You know how expensive it is to even show a real product on TV these days (unless its news)?). Who knows. But until you have more facts, what you have is a THEORY, not facts.

 

I am far from a fanboy of either side. I have cards going back years and years from both sides. I got whatever I wanted. I have CPUs from both sides. I am agnostic when it comes to most tech, except Roccat Keyboards and Mice. They are just my fav. since they keep innovating in my mind. Personal taste there. 

if they want to just fill the billboards there would be amd logos also and judging by their behavior how they immediately jumped to blaming amd drivers when clearly its the fault of their engine based on physx

[Majestic]

 

if they want to just fill the billboards there would be amd logos also and judging by their behavior how they immediately jumped to blaming amd drivers when clearly its the fault of their engine based on physx

 

Why would there be AMD logo's. Brand equality? Or maybe for every one billboard of Nvidia, there should be 0.77 billboards of AMD. Get this SJW narrative out of here please, go on...git.

 

Honestly though, this looks very much like SJW/Feminism arguments. It started with something about politics/economy and ended up with vague anekdotes, red herrings, cherrypicking and namecalling. The narrative or argument you're making, is not clear. Please try and do a better job of making yourself clear. Thanks.

[Roland]

if they want to just fill the billboards there would be amd logos also and judging by their behavior how they immediately jumped to blaming amd drivers when clearly its the fault of their engine based on physx

 

Do we have more than one Reddit Post (which is far from scientific) on what the issue is? Such as a clean clean report that is totally unbiased, a statement, anything? And I've only seen the reddit post, but I may have missed it.

 

Also AMD not supporting CUDA (which is required for PhysX) is sorta on AMD specifically. They've know this for years and years and years, and still haven't done anything. Its not totally their fault, mind you, but ultimately, you can't just blame one person.

 

Edit: As for the billboards, do you know if AMD authorized them to use their name, IP, etc. on billboards or not? This is a product, and as such anything brand wise or product wise featured requires legal consent or else you can get sued out the wazzo. Go make a game with an iPhone and someone using iOS and see how Apple responds.

[spartaman64]

Do we have more than one Reddit Post (which is far from scientific) on what the issue is? Such as a clean clean report that is totally unbiased, a statement, anything? And I've only seen the reddit post, but I may have missed it.

 

Also AMD not supporting CUDA (which is required for PhysX) is sorta on AMD specifically. They've know this for years and years and years, and still haven't done anything. Its not totally their fault, mind you, but ultimately, you can't just blame one person.

amd cant support cuda its proprietary to nvidia

[Roland]

amd cant support cuda its proprietary to nvidia

 

Nvidia has been on the record saying they will let AMD support CUDA. AMD doesn't feel the need to do it, obviously. Whether its because they don't feel its in their best product interest, they don't want to pay the licensing fees, whatever... its their choice. But they made the decision not to do it, Nvidia didn't make the decision for them. And before you cry about licensing fees... this is business. Most companies don't survive if they give stuff away to a competitor.

[spartaman64]

-snip-

the facts are the game cant run well on amd cards because it has physx at its core and the devs blamed amd for the game not running well combined with the fact they have nvidia logos everywhere. i know this isnt the end all be all but it doesnt make them look very well

[Majestic]

my point was money isnt the only form of bribery  

 

My point is that you do not seem to properly distinguish bribery, and therefor look for things that aren't there. I'm not seeing nvidia logo's all over the game as a sign of the developer being payed to do so. In fact, i'm pretty sure the gameworks library isn't free and the developer had to pay royalties. So instead of nvidia paying developers, i'd be more inclinded to believe developers are paying nvidia, and the placement of the ads is a way to reduce costs or part of the argreement to use gameworks.

 

You can debate whether that is fair, but it does not look like bribery to me.

[spartaman64]

My point is that you do not seem to properly distinguish bribery, and therefor look for things that aren't there. I'm not seeing nvidia logo's all over the game as a sign of the developer being payed to do so. In fact, i'm pretty sure the gameworks library isn't free and the developer had to pay royalties. So instead of nvidia paying developers, i'd be more inclinded to believe developers are paying nvidia, and the placement of the ads is a way to reduce costs or part of the argreement to use gameworks.

 

You can debate whether that is fair, but it does not look like bribery to me.

thats what im pointing out placing ads to reduce costs is still bribery. because essentially it would be the same as nvidia paying them what ever amount they saved 

[Roland]

My point is that you do not seem to properly distinguish bribery, and therefor look for things that aren't there. I'm not seeing nvidia logo's all over the game as a sign of the developer being payed to do so. In fact, i'm pretty sure the gameworks library isn't free and the developer had to pay royalties. So instead of nvidia paying developers, i'd be more inclinded to believe developers are paying nvidia, and the placement of the ads is a way to reduce costs or part of the argreement to use gameworks.

 

You can debate whether that is fair, but it does not look like bribery to me.

 

My wife works in Advertising for a Company I don't feel comfortable saying. What a lot of people don't realize is placing images of real companies and products gets expensive for the person placing it into their works of art they are monetizing, whether that be games or TV or movies. Its why you see fake Pepsi or Coke labels all the time. Why Mythbusters has to cover up certain things. If AMD didn't allow them to use it or other companies didn't, I can't blame the dev. Heck, its why certain games have to have fake car brands like say GTA V. 

[Majestic]

thats what im pointing out placing ads to reduce costs is still bribery. because essentially it would be the same as nvidia paying them what ever amount they saved 

 

You're basing your argument off of my speculation. I'm sure you realise how silly that is?

[Majestic]

Heck, its why certain games have to have fake car brands like say GTA V. 

 

Makes for funny jokes though. Like the "compensator" truck in Saints row 4

[Victorious Secret]

My wife works in Advertising for a Company I don't feel comfortable saying. What a lot of people don't realize is placing images of real companies and products gets expensive for the person placing it into their works of art they are monetizing, whether that be games or TV or movies. Its why you see fake Pepsi or Coke labels all the time. Why Mythbusters has to cover up certain things. If AMD didn't allow them to use it or other companies didn't, I can't blame the dev. Heck, its why certain games have to have fake car brands like say GTA V.

Yup. Licensing is bloody expensive. That's even an understatement. We're talking upwards of MILLIONS just so you can use someone else's branding, depending on the brand.

[spartaman64]

You're basing your argument off of my speculation. I'm sure you realise how silly that is?

ok we seem to have reached an impasse with this but can we agree that it was wrong of the dev to blame poor game performance on amd drivers 

[Roland]

Yup. Licensing is bloody expensive. That's even an understatement. We're talking upwards of MILLIONS just so you can use someone else's branding, depending on the brand.

 

Exactly. Heck, I don't even know how much it costs her company to use the stuff they use in their stuff. Its all NDA'd to heck and back.

[spartaman64]

You're basing your argument off of my speculation. I'm sure you realise how silly that is?

if its just the nvidia logos i would agree with you that its probably nothing significant but in the context of all the mud slinging at amd i think that detail is relevant 

[Majestic]

ok we seem to have reached an impasse with this but can we agree that it was wrong of the dev to blame poor game performance on amd drivers 

 

No, that's your take on this. I do not share your belief. I think the reason it runs poorly on AMD hardware is the developers fault for not making the gameworks library disjoint from the coregame. I think it's AMD's fault for not having their own library or service to provide. I don't see nvidia doing anything other than using their marketshare to develop tools for developers and sell them. I'm not seeing anyone being bribed here, atleast not with the information provided to me. If nvidia was truely paying people to use their software, that would be a very stupid business practice. As it's apparently not good enough to sell itself and thus means diminishing returns to the company. It would also mean bad press if it leaked, and it doesn't really improve their market share any further than it already has.