Digital Foundry Makes A Case For 30FPS

[Xeridian]

Link: Eurogamer Article on Digital Foundry Case

 

If people want to play at 30FPS, please go right ahead, but if my system handles it, then 60FPS is the way I want to play it!

Funny thing is, it's never been easier to recode for PC as the hardware is near identical now, that's why it's so obvious now.

Additionally, PCs have been playing games at 60FPS for 20+ years now, the only reason this is a thing now is because two console manufacturers undershot their performance of their hardware and don't want to lose sales. That article from the Digital Foundry is a bunch of BS, regardless of what statistics or tech resources they show about current game design versus hardware. Why should the lowest performance hardware, dictate the highest performance hardware? If your stance is like Sony and M$'s, then all GAMES should limit their graphics to the level of Mobile Phones. Yeah, I didn't think so!

 

This may be the last Gen of Consoles ever. M$ can bleed money, but their investors almost had them to get rid of the console dept before this gen released. If they don't pick it up, that wont happen again. I mean, Head of Xbox Japan "Takashi Sensui" has just resigned thanks to poor Xbox One sales in Japan. As far as Sony, they can't afford to keep losing money every year, the PS4 almost didn't happen, the PS4 also isn't doing as well as PS3 did and probably never will,

so don't be surprised if they axe their dept over the next few years either.

Nintendo was in hot water, everyone sees them as the ultimate Software only company, while they're doing well again now, they were in dark waters for a while. They will eventually go that route and be successful because they actually focus on 1st party titles and have taken this opportunity to make sales while M$ and Sony keep stacking bad PR. M$ and Sony have slowly got more and more into the tug of war over 3rd party titles, which is why it's bleeding over into the PC market and WE DON'T LIKE IT! If they want to destroy their own markets, that's perfectly fine with me, but they need to stay the hell out of PC Gaming, all they do is stifle technology, as if it wasn't already bad enough!

 

 

[Jerakl]

They're wrong. There is no case for 30 FPS.

[AlwaysFSX]

"It looks smoother, more presentable."

 

Yeah but it feels like ass using a mouse and keyboard at 30fps locked.

[Toddwjp]

60fps is always better then 30fps. always

[Marvzl1357]

From the comments of the article

30 FPS has no place on console or PC

-22 votes/points

 

Along the same lines of first comment

60 fps is a must for PC gaming.

-16 votes/points

 

Another comment

This will upset the 'master race'.

+10 votes/points

 

Looks like we found a trend on the types of people that read and commented on that article

[Majestic]

60fps does not cost extra development time. It's a measure of performance dictated by the hardware running it. This is just showing how fucking corrupt games media is again. 

#gamergateisntoveryet

 

 

 

But that's not to say that the console-standard 30fps isn't a good fit for certain hardware specs, or specific titles. In a wealth of scenarios, limiting frame-rate can result in a markedly smoother gameplay experience. 

 

In the first paragraph it already goes wrong. They're assuming that games have a certain graphical fidelity requirement and are in terms running on poor hardware, and therefor the necessary evil is therefor somehow a good thing.

The requirements and poor hardware are the fault of the same retarded PR people who were responsible for the need for graphical fidelity. The devices were sold on that premise, and now that they can't deliver they ask the gullible media to make a stupid case for them.

 

My god, where has integrity gone these days.

[Cookybiscuit]

30FPS looks bad but it isn't the worst thing in the world if you're using a controller (protip: the consoles use controllers). I played through RE4 on PC using a controller and didn't miss 60FPS.

[Majestic]

30FPS looks bad but it isn't the worst thing in the world if you're using a controller (protip: the consoles use controllers). I played through RE4 on PC using a controller and didn't miss 60FPS.

 

There is just no justifyable reason for it to be 30FPS in the first place on a platform that can clearly handle better performance. The problem is the consoles they're designed for can't, and the engines are optimized accordingly. They simply can't handle 60fps, you get scaling issues, texturestreaming issues (popins). It just doesn't work.

 

YOu shouldn't lock the framerate at 30 if your PC can't handle it, you should be able to scale the fidelity to still maintain 60fps on less-powerful hardware. But this also is not available on console ports, they don't scale well with settings.

[NinjaStyle013]

I keep saying 30 fps isnt a big deal but so far every time ive started a game up for the first time & seen it run at 30 fps ive always gone and got fraps because I think its like in the 12s. It just straight up isnt good.

[ComradeHX]

60fps does not cost extra development time. It's a measure of performance dictated by the hardware running it. This is just showing how fucking corrupt games media is again. 

#gamergateisntoveryet

It does when some peasant games are incapable of running above 30fps because physics would screw up...etc.

[Marvzl1357]

It does when some peasant games are incapable of running above 30fps because physics would screw up...etc.

*Looks at Need for Speed*

[Faceman]

I just don't see consoles disappearing.. 

 

The beauty of the console is the plug and play appeal.  Computers require a lot more technical knowledge to get set up properly, and often times, come with more hiccups.  A console is so simple, and that's why it appeals to the masses.

 

Razer has done the best job of this so far, and thats future with modular PC/Console components.  Each component is a breeze to install and upgrade, giving the end user upgradability, simplicity, and performance based on what they can afford and as new technology becomes available.

 

 

 

The above is for a computer, but I see it more as a console, at least the concept of modular components with extremely easy assembly.

 

The aesthetic needs a ton of work because the thing is hideous, but this is what I imagine consoles going towards in the future.

 

Here is a cool Wired article written about Google's new Ara Phone, a modular phone, and the author goes on to describe a modular console.

[Misanthrope]

Eurogamer you say?

*Gets pen and paper*

 

Done, added to the fucking shit list.

[ManWithBeard1990]

What I see here is "Digital Foundry makes a case for VSync"

 

The arguments they make are a bit silly. If a frame is missed then yes we will see it as 30fps for a fraction of the time even if the pc does 59.x. But that doesn't mean it should be limited all the time, that's just... wrong. It's like saying, well, let's not flush the toilet, let's just get used to it smelling like shit in here so we don't notice if someone goes to the bathroom. No... just no.

 

If I were to make a case for 30 fps, and I can't believe I'm willing to try this, is that some high-end televisions implement some form of motion interpolation to make the visuals smoother (yeah, enjoy that input lag, peasants), and the software in these things would probably be able to better interpret the signals coming from the input if there is no stuttering, which on a weaker platform might very well be easier to achieve at 30fps. Some people are also willing to give up some framerate for better visuals. More power to them.

 

But all else being equal, 30 FPS is NOT better than 60. It's settling for 30. Admitting that you can't do better and hoping it's "good enough".

[CatCloud]

I just don't see consoles disappearing..

The beauty of the console is the plug and play appeal. Computers require a lot more technical knowledge to get set up properly, and often times, come with more hiccups. A console is so simple, and that's why it appeals to the masses.

Razer has done the best job of this so far, and thats future with modular PC/Console components. Each component is a breeze to install and upgrade, giving the end user upgradability, simplicity, and performance based on what they can afford and as new technology becomes available.

The above is for a computer, but I see it more as a console, at least the concept of modular components with extremely easy assembly.

The aesthetic needs a ton of work because the thing is hideous, but this is what I imagine consoles going towards in the future.

Here is a cool Wired article written about Google's new Ara Phone, a modular phone, and the author goes on to describe a modular console.

It's something alright but that razer thing didn't take off, it was cancelled or something, so unless someone picks up where they left off, it's dead.

Ara seems to do fine and can't wait till next year for more info.

[Faceman]

 

 

The arguments they make are a bit silly. If a frame is missed then yes we will see it as 30fps for a fraction of the time even if the pc does 59.x. But that doesn't mean it should be limited all the time, that's just... wrong. It's like saying, well, let's not flush the toilet, let's just get used to it smelling like shit in here so we don't notice if someone goes to the bathroom. No... just no.

This analogy is the best.

[Faceman]

It's something alright but that razer thing didn't take off, it was cancelled or something, so unless someone picks up where they left off, it's dead.

Ara seems to do fine and can't wait till next year for more info.

I'm glad it got cancelled... for PCs.  It doesn't make sense for the PC user who knows what they're doing.

 

Take this same concept and apply it to consoles, and BAM.  Winner.

[Scionyde]

I have a feeling that some people aren't going to read the article - to sum it up, it is basically saying that pc games should come with a '30 fps lock' option for people that play on high resolution screen/have weak hardware/etc.

 

Here's a quote from their concluding paragraph before people start looking to bash in some Eurogamer heads. You still may not agree with their points, but this isn't some Ubisoft-level bullshittery or anything.

 

 

To conclude, let's be clear here - this piece isn't about giving a free pass to poorly optimised titles (though it may help to get better results from them if all other options fail) and we have serious issues with the 'cinematic' gaming argument occasionally rolled out by developer and publishers. It may make sense to run at 30fps on a fixed console platform, but the whole point of PC gaming is that the ability to define the experience rests with the player, based on how he or she wants to play, based on the kit available. The notion of placing arbitrary software limits on a platform where scalability is its key asset makes absolutely no sense to us, and it's no mistake that this argument usually rolls out in tandem with poorly performing software. Instead, think of this as an additional, occasionally invaluable addition to your PC toolbox - an option used by console developers - and often for good reason.

[ComradeHX]

I just don't see consoles disappearing.. 

 

The beauty of the console is the plug and play appeal.  Computers require a lot more technical knowledge to get set up properly, and often times, come with more hiccups.  A console is so simple, and that's why it appeals to the masses.

Not really.

PC is no more difficult to build than Legos once someone learn to RTFM and perhaps ask a simple question on internet.

At this point consoles don't have any less hiccups than PC(assuming user does not go to shady porn sites...etc.). Games crash, patches fail(and they do have to patch to play...day one); all within the norms(or worse) of PC.

[OlekKing]

This shit won't stop since the release of the new consoles.

Holy fucking shit i'm so tired of all these corrupt assholes spreading bullshit.

Wow, just wow.

[GeathX]

IS any one actually reading the article or just flying off to join in on the whole hate fest?

 

Reading the article it seems that they are talking about systems that are unstable between the 30-50 FPS, which some people find variable frame rates more annoying than a smooth refresh rate, and having a setting that just brings that down to 30FPS for a solid refresh rate. The whole last paragraph talks about the whole strength of PC is the ability to chose the settings some one wants and that having the simple choice to lock at 30, if 60fps isnt possible on your system or at the visual quality that you want. Instead of fluctuating between the low 30's and high 40's, which means the frames are being thrown on the screen out of sync with the refresh rate of the vast majority of peoples monitors, you force the 30 fps and get a smooth predictable presentation on screen.

 

Also maybe thinking a bit more and that settings like this could lead to easy setup of game settings. Could tell a game you are happy with 30 and it adjusts everything to it hits 30, but then could also tell it 60 and it does what it has to to make that happen also.

[WolfDeville]

I'm surprised this is even a debate in 2014 lol... 60FPS should have become a standard when the new consoles dropped and those consoles should have came out WAY before 2013. M$ and $ony just took their time to milk the 7th gen consoles and then when the time came for an upgrade they rushed out these abominations to compete with eachother.

[Majinferno]

-snip-

Reserved for further judgement

[Raid]

At this point consoles don't have any less hiccups than PC(assuming user does not go to shady porn sites...etc.). Games crash, patches fail(and they do have to patch to play...day one); all within the norms(or worse) of PC.

At least when I buy a console game I can fairly safely assume that it'll work as intended. Not the same with PC.

It might not run on my PC at all due to newer software or older hardware. It might run but not properly due to hardware that's too fast! I might need to fuck around with file names and config files just to get it to start in the first place.

[ComradeHX]

At least when I buy a console game I can fairly safely assume that it'll work as intended. Not the same with PC.

It might not run on my PC at all due to newer software or older hardware. It might run but not properly due to hardware that's too fast! I might need to fuck around with file names and config files just to get it to start in the first place.

You just need to avoid buying Ubisoft games for PC.

If hardware is too fast(again, except for Ubisoft, and assuming you knew what you were talking about when you said "too fast"); you bought an old game, console of today can't even play a game from that time.